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 zedmeister wrote:
Forgeworld Death from the Skies update

AAAAND ballistic skill 1. GG. Wait I just read they can swap if they are zooming. Is zooming a rule a model has as part of its dataslate or something it does in the supplement?

Man Gamgee you really need to read the main rulebook more thoroughly . Zooming is something all Flyers can do. It's the 'You need to fire snapshts at me as I fly really fast" movement speed Flyers have.

And I called it (mostly, that document isn't IA but close enough ).

I didn't ever play fighters and I read the rules like once. Some stuff stuck around and some didn't. It's also been like a year since I've played any 40k at all or cracked a rule book on it.

No one I know has used flyers in my two years of play and they aren't used in my communities meta of 40+ players.

Edit
Okay it's an astounding fighter now that I know the rules.

Pretty much all of the Forge World Marine flyers are hot garbage now. The Fire Raptor can't shoot air to air, the Xiphon can't use its missile launcher on ground targets...


Edit:Strike Craft are pretty much pre-Dfts fliers. I don't see a downside to them.

Yay DE got some love with a Strike-Craft. I don't know its rules though so I have no idea how good FW's flyer is.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Pretty much all of the Forge World Marine flyers are hot garbage now. The Fire Raptor can't shoot air to air, the Xiphon can't use its missile launcher on ground targets...


Edit:Strike Craft are pretty much pre-Dfts fliers. I don't see a downside to them.

The downside is that they can't make use of the Break Turn rules added in DftS so they don't have a chance of getting an extra rotation during their move.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Pretty much all of the Forge World Marine flyers are hot garbage now. The Fire Raptor can't shoot air to air, the Xiphon can't use its missile launcher on ground targets...


Edit:Strike Craft are pretty much pre-Dfts fliers. I don't see a downside to them.

The downside is that they can't make use of the Break Turn rules added in DftS so they don't have a chance of getting an extra rotation during their move.

Is that bad? I don't even know core rules flyers let alone DftS? Like is it so bad its going to stop this from seeing play?

pretty sure the xiphon can still do it ... fighters still shoot at ground units but at -1 BS

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Pretty much all of the Forge World Marine flyers are hot garbage now. The Fire Raptor can't shoot air to air, the Xiphon can't use its missile launcher on ground targets...


Edit:Strike Craft are pretty much pre-Dfts fliers. I don't see a downside to them.

The downside is that they can't make use of the Break Turn rules added in DftS so they don't have a chance of getting an extra rotation during their move.

So their downside is being pre-Dfts flyers? That totally balances out bring to choose between both Skyfire and ground targeting! :p and this is also a weakness shared by other units, as well.

And considering you have to test to break turn anyways...

 aracersss wrote:
pretty sure the xiphon can still do it ... fighters still shoot at ground units but at -1 BS

Nope, Interceptor Role fighters must always have the Skyfire rule on their weapon, regardless of target, so they snapshot vs ground targets. Unlike Fighters, who merely get -1bs.

@Gamgee: Not really. It just means they're a bit less maneuverable overall compared to Attack, Fighter and Bomber craft.

To do a Break Turn you have to pass an Agility Test (one of the new stats fliers were given in DftS), and they can be done at any point during your move. It's not a sure-fire thing and missing out on it isn't the end of the world. It might just make it a tad bit harder to keep other fliers in your firing ark if the opponent is lucky.

@Crazyterrain: Yeah it isn't much of a weakness... but it is one. Admittedly the other 2 flier types that share this weakness are either a) also improved in some way or b) meant to be inferior due to being civilian craft.

It's not like Break Tests are hard to pass for most non-FW fliers, since most have an Agility of 3 or 4 (and most of the FW fliers with 1 or 2 can't make Break Tests anyway). An extra rotation ever 2 turns can add up.

So basically? It's one of the best flyers in the game? Good.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Nope, Interceptor Role fighters must always have the Skyfire rule on their weapon, regardless of target, so they snapshot vs ground targets. Unlike Fighters, who merely get -1bs.

they just get -1 BS like the rest of fighters

Xiphon's aren't Strike-flyers though, they're Interceptors.

"In addition, Zooming Flyers of the Interceptor type always count as having the Skyfire special rule when firing any weapon in the Shooting phase
or Dogfight phase, regardless of target type."

 Crazyterran wrote:
Pretty much all of the Forge World Marine flyers are hot garbage now. The Fire Raptor can't shoot air to air, the Xiphon can't use its missile launcher on ground targets...

Oh, how sad. Perhaps you should call in the Imperial Navy for your air superiority needs, like the old (and much better) fluff said?

 aracersss wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:


Nope, Interceptor Role fighters must always have the Skyfire rule on their weapon, regardless of target, so they snapshot vs ground targets. Unlike Fighters, who merely get -1bs.

"Zooming Flyers with the Strike-fighter Combat Role may choose to enter Skyfire mode at the beginning of each Shooting phase. "

Xiphons are Interceptors, but thanks for playing. And Fire Raptors and Storm Eagles are attack flyers, so can't skyfire under Dfts.

See the Sky Assassins rule. You know, reading the actual rules page and all...

 Peregrine wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Pretty much all of the Forge World Marine flyers are hot garbage now. The Fire Raptor can't shoot air to air, the Xiphon can't use its missile launcher on ground targets...

Oh, how sad. Perhaps you should call in the Imperial Navy for your air superiority needs, like the old (and much better) fluff said?

Nah, Stormhawks are good, and Stormtalons are decent for air to ground.

Annihilation Squadron
As part of a Decurion detachment, 2-4 Death Shrouds may be selected as an Auxiliary choice

Not terribly enthused by the rules/this supplement in general.

I am however pleased to see FW responding/adapting to the changes in GW studio books.


.... might even get revised rules for my pylons one year !

 reds8n wrote:
Not terribly enthused by the rules/this supplement in general.

I am however pleased to see FW responding/adapting to the changes in GW studio books.

I think this about sums up my opinion here. DFTS was a terrible idea, but it's nice to see FW doing what they can to salvage a functioning game out of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, my Marauder Destroyer is a beast at air superiority. Optional skyfire for everything but the hellstrike missiles, and if you're foolish enough to intercept it I get to shoot you (with skyfire) with everything but the hellstrike missiles regardless of range or LOS. Pray that god has mercy on your aircraft, for I will not.

And here I thought fw would provide rules for my vendetta.

Silly rabbit, rules are for space Marines!

Double post, whoops.

Whoa! Helstrike missiles in the updated Thunderbolt and Lighting profiles are Heavy 1, not Ordnance!!!

 Crazyterran wrote:
Get to shoot after you've gotten shot at, so there's a good chance you are a burning wreck, snap firing because of a crew shaken/stunned result (defensive fire turns off if you take one of those) or jinked...

The Destroyer is a superheavy. 9 HP is pretty hard to remove in one turn, and shaken/stunned results are ignored.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Haighus wrote:
Whoa! Helstrike missiles in the updated Thunderbolt and Lighting profiles are Heavy 1, not Ordnance!!!

Too bad they still suffer from the "four weapons at full BS" rule. The Thunderbolt can effectively only fire one per turn since it has three guns.

I wonder if they'll do a Stormcloud Attack update as well now, would be fun to able to use a Thunderbolt or Vulture in that one.

Can my Dakkajets get some of that Strike-Fighter rule? Ill gladly take normal BS against ground targets for the inability to break turn (not like they pass those anyways with agi 2). Seems like Forge World has a better concept of combat roles than the gak GW creatred.

 zedmeister wrote:
New barracuda:

REALLY REALLY REALLY appreciate the magnet slots. Huge thumbs up!

 Gamgee wrote:
Yay DE got some love with a Strike-Craft. I don't know its rules though so I have no idea how good FW's flyer is.

Too bad the Raven is rubbish, less firepower than a Razorwing for over 200pts. Plus the model was discontinued a couple of months ago.

Also, Thunderbolts are now fast attack (used to be Heavy Support! ). Don't know if I can justify that 20 pts increase, though...

Same price as the Heresy variant, though sadly without the amazing Ground-tracking Auguries upgrade.

Also a bit disappointing that it can't take Skystrike missiles.

Forge World updated their AoS stuff for Matched Play!

Check it out!

 BrookM wrote:
Same price as the Heresy variant, though sadly without the amazing Ground-tracking Auguries upgrade.

And sadly without BS 4. I want my Thunderbolt ace!

So just not buying or using DFTS is pretty much my opinion on it.

Is dumb that they have flyer rules in MRB then decide to sell another rule book changing all the flyer rules and make some pretty much non-useable for the purpose you originally bought them.

Can't say there has been any support for DFTS among my local group at all.