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Trying to make sure I understand the mechanics of tank shocking in 6th edition. It doesn't seem as cut and dry as previous editions, and I could use a hand to understand the rules.

What I understand is:

1) You turn towards the unit / vehicle you want to shock, and declare how many inches you want to move

2) You move forward, going through units as you move along

3) If you move through a unit, it has to do a leadership test. If it is not passed, the unit must fall back.

4) If your tank stops on a unit, that unit that unit must move out of the way by the shortest distance while maintaining coherency. If it can't maintain coherency and 1 inch between the vehicle, those that cannot get out of the way are removed as casulaties.

5) Units can attempt a death or glory attack when the tank is coming.

Where I get confused is really over point 4, everything sounds clear up until then. When your vehicle comes to a rest in the midst of another unit and they have to move, how far can they move? is it a normal 6 inch movement or is there some other restriction on it? If I put a rhino in the middle of a unit, what is to stop it from simply surrounding the Rhino as it passes into it's midst? What does the shortest distance mean in this case? If a model in a unit that has been tank shocked is not caught under the vehicle, can it move in order to permit other models to move past it, or can those models simply pass through the others?

This came up in a game recently, and I am not sure if we got the rules right. My opponent dropped a unit of TH / SS termies in front of 4 Rhinos that had just dropped off their troops. I tank shocked the terminators with 3 Rhinos. The first one pushed the unit into a long line, the second Rhino parked on the left side of the line, and the third Rhino parked on the right side of the line. By the time the tank shocks were complete, his terminators probably moved about 12 inches in my turn. I doubt this is how designers intended this to work.

This is a rules question, not a tactics question. It should be in YMDC

OK then... off we go!

techsoldaten wrote:


4) If your tank stops on a unit, that unit that unit must move out of the way by the shortest distance while maintaining coherency. If it can't maintain coherency and 1 inch between the vehicle, those that cannot get out of the way are removed as casulaties.

Where I get confused is really over point 4, everything sounds clear up until then. When your vehicle comes to a rest in the midst of another unit and they have to move, how far can they move?

They are moved the minimum distance to get clear of the vehicle.(This is not the unit performing a move).

techsoldaten wrote:

is it a normal 6 inch movement or is there some other restriction on it?

Not a normal 6 inch move, see above.

techsoldaten wrote:

If I put a rhino in the middle of a unit, what is to stop it from simply surrounding the Rhino as it passes into it's midst?

They need to be 1 inch away by the shortest route, if that means they surround the vehicle then the surround the vehicle, but that is not usually the case.

techsoldaten wrote:

What does the shortest distance mean in this case?

It means the shortest distance to clear the vehicle and stay at least 1 inch away from it at their final location.

techsoldaten wrote:

If a model in a unit that has been tank shocked is not caught under the vehicle, can it move in order to permit other models to move past it, or can those models simply pass through the others?

They cant move if they are not under the vehicle. only models under the vehicle can be moved.

techsoldaten wrote:

This came up in a game recently, and I am not sure if we got the rules right. My opponent dropped a unit of TH / SS termies in front of 4 Rhinos that had just dropped off their troops. I tank shocked the terminators with 3 Rhinos. The first one pushed the unit into a long line, the second Rhino parked on the left side of the line, and the third Rhino parked on the right side of the line. By the time the tank shocks were complete, his terminators probably moved about 12 inches in my turn. I doubt this is how designers intended this to work.

They can be moved as far as they need to too get clear of the vehicles.

Yup. Each model moves as far as it needs to, to get outside 1" of the vehicle by the shortest possible path, while staying in coherency.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Yup. Each model moves as far as it needs to, to get outside 1" of the vehicle by the shortest possible path, while staying in coherency.

I hear you, and agree that this is the way the rules read. I am mostly concerned about the sentence in the BRB about tank shocking ''Any models that cannot manage this are removed from play as casualties." I am wondering what the conditions are where units cannot stay on the board and / or maintain unit coherency. There is something about it that does not make sense and is worth discussion.

For instance: if I drove up on a mob of boys with a Baneblade. Let's say there are 30 orks and 10 of them get stuck under the tank, it's a big enough model to do this. There are 10 orks on one side, and 10 on the other. The orks underneath move to the front of the tank, but are unable to form a long enough line to connect both sides of the unit. Does that mean a) all 10 of the orks under the tank are removed, since it's physically impossible to get back into unit coherency, b) the orks move into a position at least 1 inch away from the baneblade and wait to reform their unit the next turn, or c) something else altogether?

I think the answer is a, but am having a hard time understanding why it works this way.

Another example that shows why I am questioning the rules: let's say I had 2 land raiders, which are also big models, and push up at a line of 5 terminators. The terminators are spaced out about 2 inches from each other, and the first land raider parks itself in the middle of the line, shocking 4 troops. They move to get out of the way of the tank, each model moving an increasing distance, with the last one moving about 6 inches to maintain unit coherency. The second land raider pulls up beside it, forcing the models to move again, this time with the last one moving around 8 - 10 inches since he was closer to the other tank to start.

How could a model move further than it could possibly move on it's own, just because a tank has parked itself where it was? I get it that this is a game, and troops would scramble out of the way under similar real-world circumstances, but this potentially creates some really strange scenarios. Given the lack of restrictions on the movement part, I would assume game designers did not consider scenarios where tanks could be pushing opponents back 12 inches or more in a successive series of shocks.

This affects me because I play a list with 4 Rhinos full of Noise Marines. I use the Rhinos to move up the board for a round or two, then form a wall once their passengers have disembarked. Typically, opponents don't try to attack the Rhinos at this point, because blowing them up would mean they now have to face a ton of shots that ignore cover. Instead of just moving the Rhinos to the side, I could be using them to tank shock opponents and really just want to be absolutely clear on the rules around it in order to maximize the potential havoc they can cause. Given that I tend to park the tanks near cover, I could see some scenarios where the Rhinos are moved in a way that leaves a couple models stationary so that the next tanks can knock the rest back out of coherency.

This brings me to the final point. What happens when you tank shock a unit that is out of coherency already? i.e. let's say I have my 4 Rhinos and I am facing a tactical squad. I brought one Rhino up the middle, forcing the unit to stretch around it. I brought a second rhino up behind it, breaking the chain of coherency and splitting the squad. I bring a third Rhino up to the left or the right, and I am tank shocking a unit that is out of unit coherency. Does this mean they move around the other 2 rhinos to get back into coherency?

techsoldaten wrote:


For instance: if I drove up on a mob of boys with a Baneblade. Let's say there are 30 orks and 10 of them get stuck under the tank, it's a big enough model to do this. There are 10 orks on one side, and 10 on the other. The orks underneath move to the front of the tank, but are unable to form a long enough line to connect both sides of the unit. Does that mean a) all 10 of the orks under the tank are removed, since it's physically impossible to get back into unit coherency, b) the orks move into a position at least 1 inch away from the baneblade and wait to reform their unit the next turn, or c) something else altogether?

The models that move just need to be in coherency with any of the models in their unit. So it is:

C) the orks move in coherency with their unit by the shortest route possible, and if the unit is out of coherency, but all the models that were moved are in coherency then you need to restore coherency next turn.

techsoldaten wrote:
Another example that shows why I am questioning the rules: let's say I had 2 land raiders, which are also big models, and push up at a line of 5 terminators. The terminators are spaced out about 2 inches from each other, and the first land raider parks itself in the middle of the line, shocking 4 troops. They move to get out of the way of the tank, each model moving an increasing distance, with the last one moving about 6 inches to maintain unit coherency. The second land raider pulls up beside it, forcing the models to move again, this time with the last one moving around 8 - 10 inches since he was closer to the other tank to start.

How could a model move further than it could possibly move on it's own, just because a tank has parked itself where it was?

It can because the rules say it can. The rules are an abstraction, and have nothing to do with reality.

techsoldaten wrote:
Does this mean they move around the other 2 rhinos to get back into coherency?

The models are not performing a move, so they are not restricted by the movement phase rules. You are just told to move the models out of the way, not perform a move action with the models. So they will never be out of coherency, unless you tank shock the middle of a daisy chain.

 DeathReaper wrote:

techsoldaten wrote:


For instance: if I drove up on a mob of boys with a Baneblade. Let's say there are 30 orks and 10 of them get stuck under the tank, it's a big enough model to do this. There are 10 orks on one side, and 10 on the other. The orks underneath move to the front of the tank, but are unable to form a long enough line to connect both sides of the unit. Does that mean a) all 10 of the orks under the tank are removed, since it's physically impossible to get back into unit coherency, b) the orks move into a position at least 1 inch away from the baneblade and wait to reform their unit the next turn, or c) something else altogether?

The models that move just need to be in coherency with any of the models in their unit. So it is:

C) the orks move in coherency with their unit by the shortest route possible, and if the unit is out of coherency, but all the models that were moved are in coherency then you need to restore coherency next turn.

techsoldaten wrote:
Another example that shows why I am questioning the rules: let's say I had 2 land raiders, which are also big models, and push up at a line of 5 terminators. The terminators are spaced out about 2 inches from each other, and the first land raider parks itself in the middle of the line, shocking 4 troops. They move to get out of the way of the tank, each model moving an increasing distance, with the last one moving about 6 inches to maintain unit coherency. The second land raider pulls up beside it, forcing the models to move again, this time with the last one moving around 8 - 10 inches since he was closer to the other tank to start.

How could a model move further than it could possibly move on it's own, just because a tank has parked itself where it was?

It can because the rules say it can. The rules are an abstraction, and have nothing to do with reality.

techsoldaten wrote:
Does this mean they move around the other 2 rhinos to get back into coherency?

The models are not performing a move, so they are not restricted by the movement phase rules. You are just told to move the models out of the way, not perform a move action with the models. So they will never be out of coherency, unless you tank shock the middle of a daisy chain.

@DeathReaper - I read this and thought to myself, "damn, arguing with 40k rules is harder than arguing with reality."

This is an interesting response, but I think it overlooks the wording of the rules.

The BRB says:

"If some enemy models in the enemy unit would end up underneath the tank when it reached it's final position (it makes no difference whether the unit is falling back or not), these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least one inch between them and the vehicle whilst maintaining unit coherency. Any models that cannot manage this are crushed and removed from play as casualties. Crunch!"

Models have to be moved out of the way by the shortest distance. It does not say move the models so that they are 1 inch away from the vehicle AND move the models so that they are maintaining unit coherency AND move the models so that they stay on the board. It just says move them the shortest distance, and these other things have to be true for them or else they are removed from the board.

For the sake of argument, let's say the following facts are true:

- An infantry base is 1 inch wide
- A terminator base is 2 inches wide
- A Rhino is 3 inches wide and 5 inches long
- A Land Raider is 6 inches wide and 10 inches long

You have a tactical squad of 10 marines, split into 2 ranks of 5 spaced out around an inch apart. A Rhino tank shocks the unit, parking exactly in the middle. For the poor marine caught exactly in the middle of where the Rhino lands, the shortest distance is to the side of the tank, not the front and not the back. Maybe some of the other marines are able to move to the front or the back, and maybe this allows them to maintain the invisible chain of unit coherency called for in the rules. But maybe it doesn't. By the wording of the tank shock rules, I think that means when a model is moved the shortest distance and fails to achieve unit coherency, it and the others who also fail to achieve this are 'crunched' beneath the tank.

In this example, if the tactical squad is cut in 2 sections, and the models beneath the tank cannot move into unit coherency by moving the shortest distance, the rules seem to be saying they are crunched.

This is a lot easier to picture with a Land Raider, whose bulk could potentially cover the entire unit. The shortest distance would vary from marine to marine, and it would be hard for them to get into a position where they are all still at most 2 inches from one another. If someone wanted to be really nasty, they could target one half of the unit instead of the middle, to reduce the number of models that could potentially be used to maintain coherency. A subsequent tank shock could be used to wipe out the rest. You would have to be very precise with how far you declare the vehicle is going to go, but some people are very good at that.

If the same was attempted against a TEQ squad, the picture would be a little more complex. The size of the bases of these models would permit a properly aimed tank to park on them in ways that make it hard to determine the shortest distance. For a Rhino, this might mean that the difference between moving to the front, back or sides is really a matter of judgement.

At least, this is how I am reading what's written in the book. The definition of unit coherency is pretty clear, it calls for an invisible chain where no model is more than 2 inches away from others in it's unit. I don't see how breaking this chain counts as moving into coherency - perhaps you could point me at something in the book that goes into partial unit coherency? I know units must consolidate as soon as they can when a unit is broken up, but this is not really the same as needing to move into coherency right then as part of this phase of the game.

Also, I don't see how an interpretation of the tank shock rules could be used to allow infantry to potentially move the same distance as cavalry or bikers. I agree this is not a movement phase, it is the models being moved the shortest distance to get out of the way of the tank. While very little in 40k seems to have much to do with reality, there does come a point where common sense about the game itself has to apply. Is there anything else in the rules that allows a model to potentially move 12 inches or more away from it's unit?

It would be rare to get a unit into position where it would not be able to move around the tank but in theory if the unit was in a corner, a tank parks on one side and there is impassable terrain one the other so all four sides are blocked. A skimmer tank could then tank shock they would not have anywhere to go and they would be removed. Though looking again if a unit is large enough it may block itself up as well as there may not be enough frontage to support the entire unit.

Distance means little unfortunately, consider them ignoring all other threats and diving out of the way multiple times to keep from becoming paste. A 6" move for infantry is them cautiously moving across the board looking for enemies it's not saying they are moving without regard to threats.

"Moving" requires them to remain 1" away, as that is a basic movement rule. They do not need to reiterate it.

The shortest distance is one that satisfies all the preconditions; none oft hem involve moving off the board, so you still have no permission to move off the board and cannot do so

 techsoldaten wrote:

Also, I don't see how an interpretation of the tank shock rules could be used to allow infantry to potentially move the same distance as cavalry or bikers. I agree this is not a movement phase, it is the models being moved the shortest distance to get out of the way of the tank. While very little in 40k seems to have much to do with reality, there does come a point where common sense about the game itself has to apply. Is there anything else in the rules that allows a model to potentially move 12 inches or more away from it's unit?

The unit could make a 12" charge, so the possibility exists, in the games reality, for the unit to move that far in an instance. Plus with a 6" move you can have units not getting tank shocked moving up to 6"movement, 12"charge, 3" pile in, so a 21" movement in one player turn, so looking at it like that, its not unreasonable for a unit to flee 12 or more inches from a tank that's crashing into them.

Wow, great thoughts everybody!

@Gravmyr - Actually, I put someone in this position over the weekend, that was what got me on the topic. I am really asking 2 questions here, what do the rules say and what actually makes sense. I can understand dodging a tank, but 3 of them? I can't see that happening under ideal circumstances, it would be like running across 3 lanes of traffic. Maybe one guy pulls it off, but I don't like the odds for more than one.

@nosferatu1001 - Reading the rules, I don't see preconditions for movement so much as conditions for for moving the models. I did take the time to look up the rules around tank shocking from 5th edition, and the following sentence is a new addition to the rules: "Any models that cannot manage this are crushed and removed from play as casualties. Crunch!" The rest of the section on tank shocking is left as it was, almost verbatim, and this clarification would seem to support my argument that the phrase about the shortest distance prevails. Otherwise, why would they add language that explicitly deals with failing to move out of the way?

Sorry, I don't mean to come across as a wishful thinker, but I do recognize that the wording of the rules has changed significantly and believe it's worthwhile to explore this topic a little further before just saying things work the way they did in the previous edition. Games Workshop is laying out conditions for when models are to be removed from the board which did not exist in the previous edition, and I seek to fully understand them before attempting to tank shock a unit.

Help me with this question. If my interpretation is incorrect, what are the conditions under which a model could fail to a) move the shortest distance to get out of the way of the tank, b) stay in unit coherency, c) stay at least 1 inch away from the vehicle, and d) stay on the board?

@Punisher - What I was really asking about was rules that allow a model to move away from it's unit, not the standard movement rules for a unit under a player's own command. Given all that you said about the 21 inch movement per turn, however, does it seem reasonable to expect infantry to pull off additional movement based on a tank shock on top of that? 36 inches is 3/4ths of the width of a standard table, that's a long distance for anything to move in a single turn. The only thing I know of having that kind of distance is a Blood Angels transport moving flat out on road and using it's special rules.

In 5th if you couldnt move out of the way you were dead as well. No change there.

A move has preconditions on it. One is the 1" requirement. Given this is a move, with no alterations, you must manage this condition as well.

@nosferatu1001 - Yes, I see your point. Thank you.