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Overall I liked the new Barracuda (which doesn't substitute the old one - check the DftS FW update), but the lack of squadron option is sad. I'll e-mail then about it.

I find the main weapon to be only 24" strange as hell.

It's worth to note that this new Barracuda has no blast weapon choices outside the CIBs

I really hope, if GW does release an 8th edition, that DftS is not replacing the basic flyer rules.

A word about Strike-Fighters, I always thought that a Strike-Fighter referred to a fighter-like aircraft which was given an tactical / medium bomber. Something like the Tornado or F-15E.

I hope that Forgeworld magnetizes the titans for AT. That'd be ace for different campaigns.

 chalkobob wrote:
I really hope, if GW does release an 8th edition, that DftS is not replacing the basic flyer rules.

If past experience is to go by at least some part of it will be part of the new rules however the rumour is that 8th Ed is intended to be a more streamlined ruleset. Which means I don't expect the clunkiness of dfts to be added to it.

hoho good luck on that ... they are here for the stay

I expect flyer classifications, pursuit, and agility to stay. The dogfighting phase? Not so much.

It's a pointless mini game that only works if both sides bring along one or more flyers. Plus IMHO, Stormcloud Attack provides for a much better dog-fighting game.

Yeah, you can streamline the whole dogfight thing a bunch by having each player compare the total of {their pursuit} - {opponent's agility} from flyers in reserve. Whoever has the highest score has "air superiority" for the turn and a reserve bonus.

Then they can keep DftS as a supplement for both people that thought it was awesome.

I think there is something to it, even if it's imperfect. If both players have fighters you have the dogfight phase, but I think on a certain level the real intent is to coax a player who brings a flyer when the other didn't into leaving it off the table for a large enough part of the game that it balances the lack of ability to counter fighter with a fighter. Intent is not the same as execution but I think that's where they were going with that.

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think there is something to it, even if it's imperfect. If both players have fighters you have the dogfight phase, but I think on a certain level the real intent is to coax a player who brings a flyer when the other didn't into leaving it off the table for a large enough part of the game that it balances the lack of ability to counter fighter with a fighter. Intent is not the same as execution but I think that's where they were going with that.

The problem with that idea is that you can't leave it off. Reserve rolls are mandatory, and by the time you can get a flyer onto the table then off the table next turn your opponent's reserves have probably arrived already and you might as well just keep your flyer in combat. If anything I think the intent was to punish people for not buying flyers. If you don't spend your $50-100 your opponent can hurt your reserve rolls as a free bonus for bringing their $50-100 kit.

(Of course, knowing GW, maybe they forgot that reserve rolls are mandatory. The whole system makes a lot more sense if you make them optional.)

Honestly the only things I liked from DftS was the concept of Combat Roles (but as always GW screwed the pooch when it came to writing rules for them), Break Turns and Attack Patterns, even though no one I know has enough fliers to make use of them.

It's a shame in a way that the rest of the stuff added is pretty unappealing and that all of it was just unnecessary.

 Peregrine wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think there is something to it, even if it's imperfect. If both players have fighters you have the dogfight phase, but I think on a certain level the real intent is to coax a player who brings a flyer when the other didn't into leaving it off the table for a large enough part of the game that it balances the lack of ability to counter fighter with a fighter. Intent is not the same as execution but I think that's where they were going with that.

The problem with that idea is that you can't leave it off. Reserve rolls are mandatory, and by the time you can get a flyer onto the table then off the table next turn your opponent's reserves have probably arrived already and you might as well just keep your flyer in combat. If anything I think the intent was to punish people for not buying flyers. If you don't spend your $50-100 your opponent can hurt your reserve rolls as a free bonus for bringing their $50-100 kit.

(Of course, knowing GW, maybe they forgot that reserve rolls are mandatory. The whole system makes a lot more sense if you make them optional.)

Not to mention the fact it's a slap in the fact in particularly for Tyranids and Chaos Daemons, who both relay on FMCs more than anything. So, other than being pushed into buying Heldrakes both armies get to watch their reserves be diddled for free because, you know, the writers also forgot that FMC exist.

Even more hilarious when you realise that Tyranids and Daemons were also both supposed to be the Reserve Shenanigan armies.

If Trygon holes did suck that is. If they didn't introduce an auto-win tabling condition that is.

I was listening to the frontline guys talk about it when it came out. I liked that having air superiority gave +1 to reserves coming in and -1 to enemy reserve rolls.

I found that neat and should just be a rule.

I think you need to spend more time learning the rules first before making such statements chappy.

So before DFtS the vulture was a brilliant flyer - cheap and shoots a ton of shots - now it has been nerfed a bit ( no skyfire) has it lost its edge to other flyers or is it still the "best"?

Wulfthrad wrote:
So before DFtS the vulture was a brilliant flyer - cheap and shoots a ton of shots - now it has been nerfed a bit ( no skyfire) has it lost its edge to other flyers or is it still the "best"?

I know some local players complaining that the Vendetta is now worthless for its points (besides the lack of rules issue) and that the vulture got hit hard, but personally, as an owner of a vulture and 3 vendettas, I'm glad they lost skyfire. It never made sense to me that a gunship/transport and a gunship were better armed and armored than most air superiority fighters, making them far better choices against enemy aircraft. The equivalent of a Mi-24 Hind and AH-64 Apache should not be the preferred choice to shoot down enemy planes.

DftS was a major disappointment in that it didn't bother to adjust rules or points costs for any units beyond adding the two new planes and the P and A stats. With how terrible the bomber rules are, the Void Raven needed a price drop or to get it's armor 11 back. And the DakkaJet as a fighter with only S6 guns is pretty bad. And giving interceptor to the tail guns of the mek plane when it no longer has skyfire was cruel. Either bump Supashootas to S7, or give ork planes the ability to buy single shot rokkits for say 5-10 points a pair.

On the topic, I plan to grab a new barracuda once the new IA and Skitarii upgrades come out, and also really want to source 2 of the old ones from...places to run the new one as an AA craft and the two old ones against ground targets.

Wulfthrad wrote:
So before DFtS the vulture was a brilliant flyer - cheap and shoots a ton of shots - now it has been nerfed a bit ( no skyfire) has it lost its edge to other flyers or is it still the "best"?

Still viable, and arguably better than it was. It was never very good at skyfire anyway (STR 5 vs. AV 11-12 is weak at best, and it's much harder to get rear arc on other flyers than static ground targets) and it gained the possibility of making a third 90* turn each turn to get a good shot against ground targets.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Wulfthrad wrote:
So before DFtS the vulture was a brilliant flyer - cheap and shoots a ton of shots - now it has been nerfed a bit ( no skyfire) has it lost its edge to other flyers or is it still the "best"?

I know some local players complaining that the Vendetta is now worthless for its points (besides the lack of rules issue) and that the vulture got hit hard, but personally, as an owner of a vulture and 3 vendettas, I'm glad they lost skyfire. It never made sense to me that a gunship/transport and a gunship were better armed and armored than most air superiority fighters, making them far better choices against enemy aircraft. The equivalent of a Mi-24 Hind and AH-64 Apache should not be the preferred choice to shoot down enemy planes.

DftS was a major disappointment in that it didn't bother to adjust rules or points costs for any units beyond adding the two new planes and the P and A stats. With how terrible the bomber rules are, the Void Raven needed a price drop or to get it's armor 11 back. And the DakkaJet as a fighter with only S6 guns is pretty bad. And giving interceptor to the tail guns of the mek plane when it no longer has skyfire was cruel. Either bump Supashootas to S7, or give ork planes the ability to buy single shot rokkits for say 5-10 points a pair.

On the topic, I plan to grab a new barracuda once the new IA and Skitarii upgrades come out, and also really want to source 2 of the old ones from...places to run the new one as an AA craft and the two old ones against ground targets.

While those helicopters are not meant to shoot down aircraft there are some helicopters that have anti-air missiles for use against other helicopters and sometimes planes if a target of opportunity shows itself. Still it is not usually the helicopters primary role. So I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility the Vendetta/Valkyre should have one weapon with skyrfire. Maybe the primary lascannon has extra targeting sensors?

 Gamgee wrote:
While those helicopters are not meant to shoot down aircraft there are some helicopters that have anti-air missiles for use against other helicopters and sometimes planes if a target of opportunity shows itself. Still it is not usually the helicopters primary role. So I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility the Vendetta/Valkyre should have one weapon with skyrfire. Maybe the primary lascannon has extra targeting sensors?

I like how Aeronautica Imperialis handled it: Valkyries and Vultures had a light AA weapon or two in some configurations (pure ground attack in others) but had very limited speed and lower maximum altitude compared to proper fighters. So they weren't very point-efficient AA units when they did get to fight, and proper fighters could bypass them entirely in some situations. Unfortunately this strategic depth doesn't translate to 40k (despite the 40k flyer rules being a lot more complicated) so it makes sense to just approximate the Valkyrie as "no skyfire". You can throw shots at aircraft and hope for 6s, but you should have brought an air superiority fighter.

I think -- interesting as this tangent is -- we'd be better off taking this particular topic to 40k gen, so we leave this thread for FW stuff.

ta.

Woop, a Bulletin about new Mechanicum Knight heads! I wonder, will these be only for Cerastus type, or will they also fit on regular Knights too. Nevermind and yeah, can't wait for these...

for knights of all types

Face the Knights of the Mechanicum!

The team in the Forge World Studio are always working on new ways to upgrade and personalise your models. They’ve produced plenty of Knights, and now they’re working on Mechanicum heads for knights of all types. Take a look…




They look even more impressive when on a Knight. Check this out…


 
That’s all from me for now. Make sure you check back soon for more from the Forge World Studio.

They definitely have quite a Dark Mechanicum look to them. The standard Mechanicum is suitably grimdark that they could get away with them too, but I reckon this is FW beginning to shift into more esoteric Dark Mech aesthetics.

I wonder if it's going to be a separate head+special weapons combo to make a specific "make" from the different Forge Worlds...

How long after the bulletain is it until It is that the things go on sale typucally?
Cause I want the mechanicum heads for an Acheron, but dont want two orders

Knight heads, meh. Will we ever get things like carapace mount weapons for the Reaver?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Knight heads, meh. Will we ever get things like carapace mount weapons for the Reaver?

No, because they don't want cheesy people running all las Reavers without having to work for it.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
How long after the bulletain is it until It is that the things go on sale typucally?
Cause I want the mechanicum heads for an Acheron, but dont want two orders

Not sure if it's a schedule they stick to, but it was about 2.5 months for the new Tau barracuda. It was on the bulletin on the 13th May, and it's now up for preorder.

meh, I wil just get the Acheron and use the heads for another Knight.

Oh man that aperture iris is smexy as hell.

really makes me want some knights but never gona get to really play them :/