A few posts back, I discussed the impending anniversary of Slaves to Darkness and stated that I felt is was time to start exploring the history of the book, researching its conception, production and eventual release. In doing so, I felt that it was important to try gather the recollections of some of the individuals who worked on the book and their memories of their time working at Citadel during Bryan Ansell's iconic tenure.

One such individual is the prolific Tony Ackland, one of the major contributors to Citadel and Warhammer in the early years. Even if you don't know his name, chances are if your into retro GW, you'll love a piece or two of this work. Over the years he worked on practically everything from Laserburn and Spacefarers, through to Call of Cthulu, WFRP, Warhammer, Rogue Trader among others, before moving on to Flame Publications, Harlequin and Black Tree Design. Truth is, if you love chaos daemons, then you owe a debt to Tony, he designed them!

Thanks to the wonders of modern social media, I managed to contact the great man himself and ask him a series of questions about his time at GW. Generously, Tony has provided us with high quality scans of some of his work from the period, including much material from the Realms of Chaos books, some of it unpublished and seen here for the first time - I think!

Below is the interview with Tony and a wide selection of his work. We discuss his early days at Citadel, later Games Workshop, his influences, the design process at the time and his work on Realm of Chaos.

RoC80s: You began you time with GW in 1981. How did the relationship begin? Headhunted? Random accident?

TA: It goes back to when Bryan Ansell formed Asgard miniatures with a couple of partners back in the late seventies. I had started sculpting miniatures principally to fill in the gaps of commercially available miniatures for myself and friends. I met Bryan at a show and began sculpting the odd miniature and providing the occasional promotional illustrations for Asgard.
Bryan sold his share of Asgard to his partners and joined Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson in the forming of Citadel. The arrangement I had with Asgard effectively continued with Citadel. After disagreements with Ian and Steve, Bryan sold his share and thus began what he refers to has his year out. After failing fortunes with Citadel, Ian and Steve asked Bryan to manage Citadel for them. It was then that Bryan asked me if I would work for the company full time.

RoC80s: What was the design philosophy during this early period, did you have creative freedom or was your work dictated by tight design briefs?
TA: There was no formal design philosophy in the early days. The “studio” was more like a group of friends than a structured workplace. Besides illustration, I was doing a lot of concept work for the figures and putting together adverts. At that time we were the “poor cousin” of the main GW in London.


RoC80 s: You also worked on the design and development of the fan-favourites, the zoats and fimir. Perhaps you can help with a long standing mystery among collectors? This model has long be debated, and is known in collecting circles as the 'Baby Zoat' due to its small size... What was the purpose behind the design? And what was the polearm for?


TA: Bryan wanted a race similar in character to Adzel from Poul Anderson's Polesotechnic League stories. But he wanted them to have a less reptilian look and so the Zoats were born. I can't say I ever saw this figure. Its general appearance is more like Adzel himself than that of a Zoat. It may well have been a whim of one of the figure designers that got produced. This sometime happened and the resulting figures would be placed in what appeared to be the most appropriate range. Not the sort of thing that would be permitted today.
Graeme Davis had been tasked with creating a new race. So between us we came up with the Fimir He working on the text and me on the visuals. The starting point was a book cover that Graene found featuring a Fomorian as depicted by Alan Lee. I mutated the image and Graeme shortened the name and changed the vowels. Not the most original thing either of us did.

RoC80s: How did the creative progress develop/change during the later part of the 1980s and what influence did Ansell's purchase of the company have on your work?
TA: By the end of '83 Citadel was the most financially successful part of GW, this combined with Steve and Ian's success with the Fighting Fantasy books (Fighting Fantasy made them both millionaires)led to the plan for Bryan to buy them out being born. So you can imagine it was rather a slow process. Likewise the changes at GW were gradual. The upside was that with one or two notable exceptions more time could be devoted to projects, the downside was the growth of decision by committee. This became more prevalent as Bryan had less of an hands on role in the studio. One of the reasons I joined the Flame Publications crew (all 3 of us) was to escape that development.

RoC80s: There is a strong 'swords and sorcery' vibe running through much of your work. Outside the design concepts stemming from GW, what were (or indeed, are) your major influences for fantasy art?
TA: From an early age I had always liked fantasy, science fiction whether it was books, films or comics. I suppose one of the first influences was the old Eagle comic. But soon after I was reading the sf pulps like Astounding Science Fiction, Future, Original SF, and Galaxy. These featured the works of illustrators such as Virgil Finlay, Frank Kelly Freas, and Wally Wood all who had an influence. There were also the movie posters of Reynold Brown that had an impact although I did not know he was the artist who created them at that time. Then there were the stories of HP Lovecraft, Clark Ashston Smith, and Robert E Howard. Later on the Warren magazines like Creepy, and Eerie became more easily available in the UK. These featured artwork by some of the old EC artists like Al Williamson, Frazetta, and again Wally Wood. They also introduced Spanish artists like Esteban Maroto and Jose Ortiz. Then in the mid seventies along came Heavy Metal with a stunning variety of art styles. It was also a great period for paperback covers and album sleeves. It all comes down to absorbing the imagery you are subjected to, but developing your own personal style.

RoC80s: What were the inspirations behind your Cold One riders and weird armour styles for the early Dark Elves?
TA: That's pushing my memory. I think the starting point stemmed from what was the then accepted vision of High Elves as epitomised by Tom Meier's Ral Partha figures. The trick was to twist that look from the “good guy” image to that of the “bad guy”. So a lot sharp edges were given to parts of the armour and the decoration was designed to give them a sort of stereotype SS feel. You have to remember that Citadel was originally set up to produce Ral Partha miniatures under licence in the UK. Additional figures were to be designed in a form compatible with them. This altered when Ian Livingstone discovered the Perry twins and the Citadel range took on a look of it's own. The Partha figures were heavily influenced by the fantasy artwork of the time, these in turn were a big influence on the fantasy miniatures industry. However the twins whose, love was and still is historical work, were a bit quirky with their fantasy work. One of the reasons I was employed there was to give their work some direction.

RoC80s: Nearly 25 years on, what do you think the appeal is of the Realms of Chaos books? Do you just feel it is just nostalgia that maintains their consistently high prices on the collector's market?
TA: RoC was quite unique when it was first unleashed on the world. It was the first GW product to have so much time and money allotted to the artwork. It seems to have been a quite influential work but it has never received any credit for such, from the mainstream historians of the genre. GW themselves are to some degree responsible as they have distanced themselves from it as they sought a younger audience. I suppose these factors help to provide the cult status it now enjoys .

RoC80s: How were the four chaos powers (with their associated artwork and miniature ranges) designed, from initial concepts to final products?

TA: The core idea came from Bryan's fascination with the chaos gods featured in Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion books. Bryan came up with the names and attributes and got John Blanche to provide some rough sketches of each of the four gods. From then on it was up to me to develop those ideas. There was at one point a fifth god Malal (unseen) created by John Wagner and Alan Grant (the Judge Dredd writers) and drawn by Brett Ewins for a strip in the Compendium or Journal (I can't recall which).

TA: This god (Malal) was prevented from being used in RoC because Wagner and Grant had ensured that they had the copyright. This was not realised until after I had created the visuals for the God and it's associated beasts. In the case of the beasts I would create finished visuals and we would get around to discuss which to use or not. The mutations of the warriors was left up to me.

RoC80s: The image above is an intriguing one. It reminds me of the interior illustration used in Slaves to Darkness to overview Slaanesh and Khorne. Here we see Nurgle daemons in ranks similarly to the well known illustration (shown below for comparison). Interestingly, the Beast of Nurgle here resembles the unreleased version (which was not big enough, see it here) rather than the more well known miniature. The absence of this type of drawings was one of the biggest surprises for me when I first read The Lost and the Damned. Presumably, there was also once a Tzeentch version. I asked Tony for more detail.

TA: Originally there was only going to be one book. So the initial compositions for the various daemon header sections were designed to be compatible. The plan had been that vast majority of the artistic work would be up to Ian Miller and myself with occasional artwork from various freelancers. What then happened was that too much text was generated (a ratio of text to illustration had been established at the beginning of the project) for one volume. So it was decided to make it a two volume project. After the completion of Slaves to Darkness it was necessary to return to other projects that had been put on the back burner. So effectively the Lost and the Damned was a less focused project. In the intervening time Ian became involved in other things and the studio grew and more artists were employed, the result being that the initial vision was somewhat diluted.

RoC80s: After Realms you moved to Flame Publications and became involved in lots of RPG products, particularly the much loved Marienburg series and Confrontation- the game that would one day become Necromunda. How different was the original concept to the one we eventually saw?

TA: It was a big morph. Some of the background was published in WD. There was about six months of artwork genearated by me that never saw the light of day. It was considered to be more suitable for an older audience than the one they were aiming toward, and that being an RPG it wouldn't generate enough figure sales. The material that appeared in Dwarf was edited down from the original by Flame Publishing (which at that time consisted of Mike Brunton, Graeme Davis, and yours truly). Flame was created to produce RPG stuff for GW mainly for Warhammer Roleplay. It contributed all the Marienburg material for Dwarf. For various reasons (none of them illegal) GW promoted the illusion that Flame was a separate company. A couple of creature that were intended for Confrontations. One with very alien overtones.

RoC80s: How involved were you in the Marienburg project? Did you just provide the art or did you have a larger role in generating the background?

TA: The original idea for Marienburg came from Richard Halliwell. The scenarios that appeared in WD were edited by Mike from material supplied by various freelance writers and Graeme. There were a couple of times I remember Mike and myself arguing with Graeme over the look of a character. But other than that it was three friends contributing what each od us did best. There was one scenario I ended up stopping publication of. It was based on the characters from the Maltese Falcon. A major difference was that Gutman (The character played by Sydney Greenstreet in the most famous film adaption) ran a brothel in addition to his other nefarious activities. Given that WD was increasingly being aimed at a younger market it hardly seemed appropriate subject matter. Because the text and illustrations had been completed the idea was to use the scenario in a compendium type publication has Flames readership was somewhat older. In the event it never saw the light of day.

That's your lot... I hope you have enjoyed this walk down memory lane, and hopefully you have learnt something new along the way. A MASSIVE thank you to Tony for sharing with us his memories and his work.

Enjoy,

Orlygg.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
An interesting read.

I really like the style and atmosphere of the old illustrations.

agustin wrote:


These floating skull tree things (not sure what to call them) are totally going on my terrain project list. Creeepy!

I want you to think about that first moment you discovered miniature fantasy wargaming. Those first few hours as you sat engrossed, mind open to new and exciting possibilities, creating a wish list in your head...

It might have been D&D, or White Dwarf or even Owl and Weasel, if you are really Old School.

It won't matter!

You would have had 'that thought'.

The thought when you dream that you actually paint and game as a job.

Sadly, for must of us, the thought remained just that, but the subject of Realm of Chaos 80s second interview actually put that thought into reality! He got a job at GW as a figure painter and was at the heart of 'Games Workshop' s Golden Age', working on The Lost and the Damned, the Rogue Trader Ork books and bloodbowl to name just a few...

His name?

Andy Craig.

emember reading of his arrival in the pages of White Dwarf 112. A small note in Culture Shock told me that a new brush was at the studio. You see, the news pages were always my first port of call (I liked to know what was coming out next), while my second was ' Eavy Metal. And there I saw some of his work, the gorgeous harlequins above. There was much debate about this Andy Craig that month on the bus, around the paint station or and elsewhere. So it gives me great pleasure to say that I can present to you a major interview to a fellow painter who ' had the thought' and through his skill and dedication made it his profession.

But that is enough waffle fro me, I'll hand you over to Andy who will tell his remarkable story, supported by many images from his career. Its a personal, and intimate, tale of his time in ' Eavy Metal

Enjoy,

Orlygg.

RoC80s: How did you get into miniature painting and what led you from Lincoln Council to the GW design studio?
AC: I got into miniature painting around 1983. My friend, and still my closest friend to this day, Chris Gent told me about Dungeons & Dragons. I'd always been a fan of all things fantasy; books, art and the like, so we decided to have a game. What caught my eye was the miniatures, in particular ones that were painted to a pretty good standard. I started buying and painting miniatures within weeks. I was shown a copy of White Dwarf showcasing the work of the Godfather of miniature painting, John Blanche. It blew me away and the hooks were in! Inspiration was high..... I just wanted so badly to be that good.

It was then I knew this was what I wanted to do as a profession.
So, the first Golden Demon was announced of which I did not enter, as I was no where near good enough. The next year I entered the Golden Demon regional heats 1988 and was placed first. I didn't win in the finals but did get my work ( a cheerleader emerging from a cake ) in the demon year book. The next year I also came first in the regional heats, and it was then that that the Rep from Games Workshop HQ who was judging, suggested I write a letter to Phil Lewis applying for a position at the studio as a miniature painter. I sent the letter and two weeks later got a reply from Phil asking me to go see them in Nottingham. I could not believe my luck and remember well the day of my interview. Can you believe the first person I met on entering the studio was John Blanche himself? 'You the Figure painter?' were his words. The studio (in Enfield ) was like a rabbits warren, we went straight to the figure painters room where Mike McVey, Ivan Bartleet, Darren Mathews and Phil Lewis were busy doing their thing. John and Phil took me into an adjoining room to discuss my work I'd brought along. They had high praise for my painting and offered me a job at the studio right there on the spot, which of course I took. I was given a tour of the studio, met Jes Goodwin, who at the time was working on the Eldar snipers. The Perry twins, Kev Adams, all the game designers; Rick Priestley, Richard Halliwell etc. To say I was shell shocked by what was going on would be an understatement. Started working at the studio two weeks later. The first figure I was given to paint was a Blue Horror, quite difficult to paint but I pulled it off.


RoC80s: How was the studio set up and run? Could you just pick models and get on or were you directed?
AC: Good Question! Like I mentioned above, the studio was like a rabbits warren. It was hard to find your way around for the first few days. The miniature painters room was large enough for six painters and there was a very small room near the back where we primed the miniatures ... We would often emerge from that room feeling very sick due to the spray primer toxins as the extractor was so caked up with paint residue it didn't function properly.
Phil Lewis was the figure painter co-ordinator. He basically gave us the the 'Green- light' as to if the figure was good enough for White Dwarf. Most of the time when we placed a miniature in front of him that blew him away he'd say, jokingly, 'put your hands on the table', we'd say, 'Why?', Phil would say, 'because i'm going to break your hands.....nobody can be that good!'.
There wasn't that much directing as far as painting went and we were given free reign on almost all we painted apart from the obvious Codex conformity regarding Ultra-marines, Space Wolves and Orks etc. I remember been given a brat and a scavvie for the then new and up and coming Necromunda. John Blanche had just completed the cover art for the box which he brought down to me and placed on my desk to use as colour reference. He looked at me and said, 'don' t get any paint on it!'.

RoC80s: What was the working atmosphere like among the 'Eavy metal painters?
AC: Tim Prow sat at a joining table facing myself while Mike, Ivan and Darren were to the other side of us. Tim came to us as an Apprentice aged seventeen, within days he was up to our standard. Of all the miniature painters Tim and I were the closest, always having a laugh. When we were working on Waagghh the Orks, the revamped 40k and all the other Codex (Titans, Eldar etc) the board games....so much stuff, things were not so good. We were painting Orks for what seemed like months. We were asked to create colour schemes for the then new Space Marines which are still used till this day.
Atmosphere for the best part was good. We'd often listen to audio books while we worked; The Lord Of the Rings audio book always went down well when painting Warhammer Fantasy. Every day was Christmas for us, Phil would ask almost every morning 'anything you guys want from the factory', the answer would often be 'Nah'. My desk had a foot deep draw full to the top with miniatures which I sent back to the factory. We were given copies of every figure we painted plus whatever our hearts desired. You have to remember that we too were fans of the miniatures, the difference being we got to see things first hand and probably were as exited as you guys.


RoC80s: You mention lots of the other famous '80s figure painters, what about Colin Dixon, Sid, Steve Mussuard, Pete Taylor, Richard Wright and Steve Blunt. Did you work closely with any of these legends?

AC: Sid had left by the time I'd started work at the studio, Colin was a figure designer and a really good guy. I was chatting to him one day in his studio at the top of the building, when all of a sudden there was blood all over his work top, he was cutting a slice of green stuff, thumb down on the blade, sharp side up! I think we all looked forward to seeing Steve Mussuard whenever he visited the studio, lovely guy, very funny, unique style, always gloss finished his figures but he used most of his work for gaming. Pete Taylor? OK, I met Pete many, many times, and still to this day I'm scratching my head as to the speed and high standard this guy could paint. Richard Wright didn't paint that many figures but when he did they were off the planet......outstanding, he applied the paint in an almost ink form, very hard to do and a very long process. Mike Beard came to work with us as a kind of holiday, one of the greatest diorama modellers there has ever been, awesome painter to boot and a very dear friend. Fraser Gray, who I would say is in my view the greatest figure painter of all time (just my opinion) was also a regular visitor. The fact he used enamels and white spirit to blend while most of us used saliva! This was very tricky to apply but it didn't seem to phase him. I'm very lucky to be the owner of one of his orks, I think it was in the first Golden Demon year book, an Ork with just a loin cloth holding an axe above its head. He exchanged it for one of my figures although he didn't get the initial figure he wanted, which was my pink 'Kinky Chaosette', so settled for an Amazon limited edition I painted for him.

RoC80s: When working on technique, how did the team influence and support each other? Was there any other particular painter or painters who supported/inspired you?

AC: Well, for me John Blanche was my biggest inspiration, as with many figure painters. He pushed the boundries and laid the foundations for what exists now. Just before I left GW, John took me to one side and said 'there's two figure painters I'd have paint figures for me and that's you or Mike (McVey)'.

I was in tears, for this guy to grace me with such a honour kind of completed me as a figure painter.

Between the rest of the figure painters technique/ideas were always shared. I used to buy pots of Humbrol acrylic matt red paint from a model shop in Lincoln for Mike as it was hard to come by. the only red Mike used and probably still does. We had to be at the top of our game back then, so support for each other was always there.

RoC80s: Where you limited to 'Citadel' only products, ie: the original paint sets (colour, monster, creature, ink etc...) or were other products used too?

AC: Basically, whatever it took for us paint to the highest standard in terms of paint we got elsewhere. We just went down to petty cash, were given the money to buy whatever paint. I hated the Citadel red, awful stuff. And the ink back then wasn't up to much. Most of us used Windsor and Newton ink, but having said that most of the Citadel colour was great.

RoC80s: You attended Games Day as part of the 'Eavy Metal display team, as well as a punter. Any juicy memories of those events?

AC: We were just flooded by people at Games Day, couldn't walk more than ten feet without being stopped and asked to sign something, It was a great feeling. I helped take entries in one year to put in the relevant displays and this guy hands me his entry (a standard bearer) and just as he does it broke, my he was pissed, but lucky for him we fixed it and I think he got silver.

RoC80s: Where did your career take you after you left GW?

AC: Freelance figure painter for a while and now a freelance artist with a few publishing deals under my belt. I had many jobs over the years since then, all art related. Theatre design was good fun. Now live in the country with my wife (Renee) and dog (Sparky).

RoC80s: Did you actually play any of the GW games back in the 80s, and if so which were your favourites?

AC: Talisman, loved that game. never thought I'd be working on it, Talisman City, Space Hulk, we all got photo copies of the games months before release.

RoC80s: Still painting miniatures today?

AC: Some times, I moved way up in scale and was mostly painting 1/6 scale models for various companies around the world. and felt natural for me to make that transition. Who knows what the future holds?

RoC80s: Life as an 'Eavy Metal painter in the '80s seems very Rock 'n' Roll at times! Any wild stories to share?

AC: OK! Funny memories and one in particular; the studio toilet was on the next level down from us, and for some reason the light switch was outside in the corridor, so Tim and I thought it would be funny to turn the light off when someone went for a gak, the funniest thing is that I forgot to turn the light back on and all I could hear is someone shouting; 'TURN THE fething LIGHT ON!'

Kev Adams was a really funny guy, often bursting into our room, sitting on a chair and lighting his farts, or painting a figure really badly then putting it in front of Phil for approval. One thing we all loved, and still love, about Phil Lewis is that he was so proud of us all and kept our spirits high.

Brian May of Queen came to meet us with his then young son, the one day I wasn't at work. Phil gave him a painted figure and in return Brian sent him a letter of thanks. The Heavy Metal band Gwar came to meet us in full stage costume, they were big fans of ours.

I should mention the artists. Tony Ackland, Paul Bonner, Wayne England etc, who were great guys to chat to, you had to see the work these guys did as they were doing it at the speed they did.

One question a lot of people asked us was 'how many figures we painted a day?' This was usually 1 maybe 2. I painted the elves for dungeon bowl, and had to paint them in two hours! Ivan painted the dwarfs. The one and only time I had a mental block with a figure was when we were painting the Ork clans for Warrgghh. It was a Goth with the new plastic arms, it was gak! We just couldn't make this bad boy look bad, so it was shelved.

RoC80s: You have mentioned Fraser Grey several times, and many fans are of a similar opinion to yourself that he was the greatest painter in the history of the miniature - but fandom has no idea what happened to him. Is there anymore that you could tell us about him?

AC: Fraser was a lovely guy. he could make any, and I mean any figure look good. Before the days of the internet, we'd write to each other as back then he worked for a record company but can't remember his role. Fraser would only paint chaos, orks, or paint the figures to look evil- just a personal preference on his part. I tried his method of painting and failed badly. Sadly, I've not seen him for years, where ever he is, I hope he is well and painting.


RoC80s: Why did you feel compelled to move on?

AC: I left GW because of the impending change (Bryan selling the company to a group of bankers) and it was a terribly sad day, lots of tears... Even Rick Priestley came down to say how sad he was I was leaving. Mike McVey handed me a fist full of paint brushes as he was, by then, figure co-ordinator.


And here the story ends. All I can say is a big thank you to Andy for his time and support of this blog. When I first approached him for interview he felt that both he, and his friend Tim Prow, contribution to classic Citadel and 'Eavy Metal had been forgotten.

I hope that this article goes a little way in remedying that injustice.

Orlygg.

Rick Priestley Interview: From the Realms of Chaos to the Gates of Antares
If music fans had Epstein and the Beatles... Who do we wargamers have as our Svengali?


Well, none other than the Malcolm McLaren of the Rules Mechanic himself; the prolific Rick Priestley! Now, if you've pushed models around a wargames board over the last 25 years or so, then no doubt you've played a game written by, or at least influenced by, Rick.


Effectively (and collectively), we owe him a debt of gratitude for his hand in creating the modern wargames scene. And so to repay his part of this debt, Orlygg dressed up in his chaos armour, took a Rennie to tame his uncontrollable flatulence, mastered his silly walk and terrified the famous games designer into giving an interview for this blog. We discuss life in the GW studio during Bryan Ansell's iconic tenure, Rick's work on WFB3 and RoC and what he has planned for us with The Gates of Antares - which in my view, has the potential to be the most exciting thing to happen to wargaming in 25 years.

Rick Priestley Interview: From the Realms of Chaos to the Gates of Antares
If music fans had Epstein and the Beatles... Who do we wargamers have as our Svengali?


Well, none other than the Malcolm McLaren of the Rules Mechanic himself; the prolific Rick Priestley! Now, if you've pushed models around a wargames board over the last 25 years or so, then no doubt you've played a game written by, or at least influenced by, Rick.


Effectively (and collectively), we owe him a debt of gratitude for his hand in creating the modern wargames scene. And so to repay his part of this debt, Orlygg dressed up in his chaos armour, took a Rennie to tame his uncontrollable flatulence, mastered his silly walk and terrified the famous games designer into giving an interview for this blog. We discuss life in the GW studio during Bryan Ansell's iconic tenure, Rick's work on WFB3 and RoC and what he has planned for us with The Gates of Antares - which in my view, has the potential to be the most exciting thing to happen to wargaming in 25 years.


Realm of Chaos had a chaotic development cycle that was legendary.



RoC80s: When I approached you about doing this interview, you described beginning work on Lost and the Damned, after a few false starts, rather reluctantly. Does this mean that working on the project was a negative experience for you?


RP: Not quite – the RoC project had been around for a number of years and had passed through various authors and collaborators – none managing to do a job that Games Workshop’s then owner and boss was happy with. So it was something of a poisoned chalice really – with a long list of broken games developers and writers on the casualty list.


RoC80s: Realm of Chaos is famous for having a very contravolted development; it was first mentioned as a supplement to Warhammer 2 (IIRC) in '83 but didn't rear its head until '88. Why was this? Was it simply studio 'tradition' as Rogue Trader, WFRP etc suffered from a similar treatment?


RP: Yep – like I said – it had been around for a number of years! In fact, I had the first version well underway in 83 and we had a cover and everything – but in the end we decided to push ahead with WH2 instead and RoC had been written for WH1 – so we passed over it until we could get back to the idea. Then other things came up so that didn’t happen for a while! Then 40K was such a success that it was decided that RoC had to have 40K in it as well as fantasy – so that meant writing huge amounts more – so it became a bit of a monster really.

RoC80s: The Lost and the Damned saw you contribute short pieces of narrative fiction. Were staff encouraged to provide these or had they been written for any other purpose? Also, why no further fiction writing from yourself?


RP: Yeah, we all just knocked out the odd bit of text either to fill space where artists hadn’t managed to supply a drawing or to try and capture something of the quality of the world. At the time we had the first version of the Black Library going too, and some of our professional authors were commissioned to write short pieces – and that all helped I think. Actually I’ve written loads of narrative stuff for various projects over the years –we didn’t really think about it at the time – the GW writers in those days were a pretty literate and well-educated bunch – and this at a time when only about 5% of the population were university educated. I mean - we had three archaeology degrees between us! Phil Gallagher could speak Russian and Persian for goodness sake! So turning out short fiction was just part of the job to be honest.

RoC80s: There is also much debate about abandoned projects during the period we are discussing. Can you recall any 'almost made its' that never saw the light of day?


RP: Oh let me think… Richard Halliwell had a number of projects about that time which never made it past the finish line. They included an early version of Fantasy Epic, a spaceship game (proto-Battlefield Gothic), and a Doctor Who board game that featured revolving board segments representing different time zones. These segments articulated against each other during play facilitating movement between them – I think the licensing deal fell through on that one. We had a series of board games planned for release in the High Street – these were based on classic games like Snakes and Ladders and had beautiful artwork by Wayne England – I mean the most gorgeous drawings in the style of children’s book illustrations, really jewel like. The two I remember – aside from Snakes and Ladders – were The Great Race Game – vaguely based on an Around the World in 80 Days theme – and a version of Stratego which was to be called Offensive. As the whole series was to be styled ‘Wayne England’s’ such and such – e.g. ‘Wayne England’s Great Race Game’ - I do wonder what Wayne would have made of Wayne England’s Offensive! There was also a mad plan to start a new company that would do live action role-playing (i.e. paint balling) set in the Dark Future world. We all dressed up in Mad Max gear and sloped off to a wood to pot at each other with paint guns. Unfortunately no one thought to mention this to the local constabulary, and when the natives saw the GW crew running round with guns… well. The police were very understanding!

RoC80s: You've gone on the record (maelstrom interview '11) that you felt that the third edition of Warhammer was the least playable, yet it remains the most fondly remembered. The passion and popularity of this book lies behind our group. In hindsight, do you consider this edition to be a failure in your view of what you (and your colleagues, such as Richard Halliwell etc) had in mind?


RP: No, I don’t see it as a failure at all – and we certainly didn’t at the time. I don’t think that we were at all concerned by the stodgy gameplay and extreme complexity when we produced WH3 and I don’t think anyone else was either – and as you say the passion and energy does come across better in that book than in any subsequent editions of the game. I think that’s right. I just don’t think it’s a very playable game when it comes down to it – the push back movement within the combats is tortuous – the combat resolutions swing wildly because of the double variable ‘to hit’ and ‘to kill’ – which meant that combats could often drop to 2+ followed by 2+ or 6+ followed by 6+. And all those modifiers – modifiers at every stage of the dice roll – to hit, to kill, save… really sluggish stuff! The next edition was way more energetic and actually got people playing Warhammer again (sales had really slumped prior to that). The trouble with the 92 version (4th) was we didn’t have any money because we’d just had the GW management buy out and suddenly we owed the venture capitalists £10M – so there was just no spare cash for anything. We’d gone to an early dtp system, which wasn’t as professional as the old typesetter (but reduced costs as it meant we didn’t need the extra staff), we had fewer artists, and we couldn’t afford the colour (the colour sections were exerted from WD to save money). There were also fewer design staff actually working on the game – pretty much just me with Jervis, Andy and Nigel helping. For 3rd we had half a dozen dedicated writers and another half dozen willing bodies – so we were able to do a lot more.


RoC80s: Didn't you sculpt the war machine for the goblin chiefs chariot in the early '80s? I am sure I've heard on the scene that it was signed by you good self? If so, did you sculpt anything else in the Citadel range?


RP: I sculpted the spear-chucker – because I wanted a spear chucker and we didn’t make one at the time – it wasn’t terribly good though I must confess! I did make a few pieces in the early days but mostly straight-line work: treasure chests, weapons, and a range of spaceships some of which survived for years in our general spaceship mix. Before I worked for GW I sculpted for Tabletop Games and Asgard – but it was a long time ago – expectations were not high in those days!


RoC80s: Having interviewed other people involved in GW during this period, they describe the atmosphere in the studio as being very creative and supportive, as well as being very loosely controlled when it came to design. Is this a view that you share?


RP: Erm… well the RoC books extend over such a long development period that the atmosphere in the studio probably went through some changes to be honest. But when we were in Enfield Chambers (prior to 91) the studio was a very easy going creative environment to put it mildly. We were left to our own devices for much of the time, and Bryan Ansell (owner and boss) pretty much kept the creative part of the business separate from the manufacturing and sales part. Bryan was a very creative and ideas driven man – I don’t think he’d mind me saying that – he always wanted to make great games with interesting mechanics and stimulating ideas – and he didn’t mind investing in creative staff. He was a real patron of the studio and took a real interest in all the models and artwork. Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!

RoC80s: The other Warhammer third edition supplements, Armies and Siege... Were these planned from the start or originated from elsewhere - like having to sell a polystyrene castle?


RP: I think we’d always wanted to do those things and the castle just provided the opportunity. We didn’t really plan much. We were very reactive in those days, but we were full of ideas so it was always just a case of picking something and going for it.


RoC80s: Right, fast forwards twenty five years... The way you have approached GoA is very novel, involving the players themselves in the design. Has this been something that you have wanted to do for sometime?


RP: I’ve always involved players in games design – it’s just usually those players are my mates or groups I’ve come to know and rely upon for feedback and help. With Antares we’re trying to extend that group via the internet and it just seemed like a good idea to be honest!

RoC80s: The sci fi wargame is a flooded market, both in miniature and software. How can you be sure that what you produce isn't going to be simply more 'generic' space marines/robots with big guns?


RP: Yes I know what you mean – and to some extent you do have to play to the archetypes to make the whole thing work. But we have some very talented sculptors on board and I’m confident we can make something that has a unique flavour and style, even if it recognisably fits into a genre that is perhaps more familiar now than it was back in 87 with Rogue Trader.

RoC80s: Will we see humour? This is something that I feel sets British gaming apart, even in the darkness of Realm of Chaos there were lots of amusing ideas. Will we see this reflected in the background and miniature ranges? (I would love to see a tongue in cheek set of counters that could be cut out, like in the back of RT and WFB3, and played with for play-testing!)


RP: I’d forgotten about the counters! I do try to write in a fairly light style and a certain amount of humour does tend to creep in… where it creeps from I am not too sure! I’m not setting out to write a book stuffed with gags – but we’ll see how it pans out. RoC has some very funny stuff in – often ideas contributed by the team – we had great fun coming up with all the Chaos mutations and many of those came from Bryan himself. We had to tone down the ruder ones!


RoC80s: Will you be taking GoA concepts etc along to any shows this year, such as Salute? I notice that the Alpha version of the rules will be available in April, so are demo games a possibility?


RP: Yes for sure – and we intend to do some club visits too – but a lot depends on where we get to with the kickstarter as that will determine how many of us there will be – if it’s just me I’ll be chained to the desk writing!


Big thanks to Rick for agreeing to this interview... Especially considering he must be up to his neck in his new project. If you are interested in supporting the kickstarter the link is herehttp://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2037958218/beyond-the-gates-of-antares?ref=card, and you can find the GoA website (with some very stimulating forums)

Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!

Says it all really.

Great interviews though, especially from the artists.

the GW writers in those days were a pretty literate and well-educated bunch

'Also,' David Pringle recalls, 'I think there was some pulling two ways between Bryan Ansell (who was all for the books) and Tom Kirby (who tended to be against them — I remember him telling me that he hated fantasy and that his favourite writer was Jane Austen).'

'GW won their injunction against Bantam/Transworld's Dark Future books, which will now presumably be withdrawn. British justice and the English sense of fair play triumph again!' – writes Brian Stableford, possibly in tones of mild sarcasm.

As Ansible readers know (A64-65), this lawsuit arose because Games Workshop had a game called Dark Future™ and had published spin-off Dark Future books (mostly by Kim 'Jack Yeovil' Newman) before apparently discontinuing the game and their own book venture. Their new co-publishing project with Boxtree starts this month, with no DF books in the launch and none announced for later. (But on an Xmas card Ian Watson writes: 'The rest of Kim's and Brian's [Stableford's] books are due subsequently.') Meanwhile Transworld have been publishing a series of young-adult books with the overall title Dark Future, by Laurence James, which have incidentally sold a great deal better than the GW titles. GW objected and the lawsuit was on.

The law is pretty bloody murky. There is no copyright in titles; anyone can call their new space opera War and Peace. (Evelyn Waugh's title Men at Arms is being recycled by Terry Pratchett in a Discworld novel even now under construction.) Nevertheless Laurence James apparently searched Whitaker's Books in Print (plus the entire Essex Library database) to check that Dark Future wasn't currently in use. No mention: it seems GW had got bored with registering books and took to making up their own ISBN numbers instead. What about trademark infringement? British trademark law applies to a distinctive style or logo: anyone can write 'IBM' but use of the IBM logo is strictly controlled. The GW and Transworld Dark Future books didn't look at all alike. Transworld (said to have been very supportive of their author) had encouraging affidavits from the Society of Authors, the Publishers' Association and major authors. 'Everyone in the book trade,' said my spy, 'realized the potential gravity of this case and absolutely everyone rallied around from all quarters.' It was expected throughout the publishing industry that GW's injunction would fail.

It succeeded, and early in December Transworld were duly landed with costs of £60,000 plus instructions to get their Dark Future books out of the shops in one week.

All this was an interlocutory hearing; an appeal is expected shortly, while the trial proper may be a year off. The charges against Transworld were trademark infringement and 'passing off'. The Deputy Judge declined to rule on the latter, so the law remains unclarified. The judgement on trademark infringement appeared to follow the line that (a) the GW Dark Future books all have clear ™ or ® marks on the cover near the words Dark Future (but they don't; only the GW logo on the back has a ™ mark – and of the three Yeovil DF books here, two refer on the copyright page only to the trademarked status of Warhammer, another game altogether); (b) if GW had brought out a magazine called Dark Future™, and if Transworld had published its own Dark Future magazine, that would have been an infringement owing to the technicalities of 'A' and 'B' trademarks, of which one applies to mags and the other doesn't (er, yes, but what have magazines got to do with it?); (c) for practical purposes there is no difference between a numbered series of books and a magazine or periodical (sickening sound of dropped jaws across the entire publishing industry); (d) there was an infringement: injunction granted.

It had earlier emerged that one cannot use as a trademark, on a book, 'any descriptive phrase'. Happily for GW but to the slight surprise of English grammarians, Dark Future was ruled not to be a descriptive phrase.

Ansible does not take sides, perish the thought, and lots of sf authors are grateful to GW for generous book advances. But the Transworld lot are bitter about such reputed facts as that GW went into court with a sympathy-winning attitude of 'poor little firm being crushed by big firm ... not our fault ... always wanted a compromise' after having initially stormed on Transworld with legal guns blazing and DEMANDED the withdrawal and destruction of all copies, no deals, no compromise; that GW gave sworn evidence that the Boxtree launch wasn't yet going ahead (i.e. was in peril from this wicked passing-off), only to be shown as fibbing thanks to contradictory evidence from the great and good Rog Peyton; above all, that if only GW had acted professionally and registered their bloody titles in the first place this whole nonsense would never have arisen.

Before the hearing a GW author had remarked, optimistically, that if GW/Boxtree were to win on a platform of claimed lost sales of Dark Future books, they might feel honour-bound to publish some of the DF epics left in limbo ever since the game was (allegedly) scrapped. We shall see....

The Patriarch: An Interview with the artist Tony Hough
A huge number of artists contributed to the look and feel of the early Warhammer, Rogue Trader and the Realm of Chaos books. Discounting the background and rules presented in these works, what you have are highly collectible art books jammed packed with astonishing, almost mind reeling, illustrations. There were a huge number of contributors during this period, and looking at the body of work they have left us, there are clear signs of creative 'cross pollination'. One style that predominates, presumably for economic as well as practical reasons, is the black and white pen and ink style. Artists such as Ian Miller and Tony Hough produced vividly detailed images whose scratchy chaos helped lay the foundations of the Warhammer Mythos.

What follows is an interview, and presentation of some of his works, with the hugely talented Tony Hough. Tony did not belong to the studio like the 'other Tony' (Ackland) and was employed as a freelance illustrator, sometimes working at frightening speed to produce a wide range of different illustrations that were used extensively in GW publications from 1987. We discuss his influences, his relationships with some of the other artists involved and some of his wider work.



RoC80s: Why an artist? What led you down the path of pencils, gouache and pen and ink?

TH: Drawing books and plasticine were cheap in the '60s! My mum had three little rugrats to deal with, so something that would keep me quietly occupied was a bonus. My early efforts were an expression of my games and daydreams, the results being less important to me than the process. Later, I started keeping and showing off my efforts both for the praise I got (mostly for being quiet) and so I could remember and elaborate on my earlier games.




RoC80s: What were your influences as a young artist?

TH: My first inspirations were the dusty corners of the house, the creepy-crawlies I found in the garden and the outside loo (yes, I'm that old...) and the stuff I saw on TV, at the Saturday Morning Pictures and in comics. So drawing and SF, Fantasy (and later Horror) were part of my life from the earliest times. I drew a lot of daleks and the robot from Lost In Space!




RoC80s: You worked on a great deal of later '80s GW products, Slaves to Darkness and Rogue Trader to name a few, how did the relationship between you and the company begin?


TH: In the early eighties I discovered Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks, RPGs and wargames and it seemed like a natural outlet for my talents, so I sent several batches of samples to GW . Then some time in '87 I had a call from John Blanche saying that he thought my style would suit a new project that was in the pipeline: Rogue Trader.




RoC80s: The Design Studio during the '80s seems to have been an incredibly creative place. Did you find it so? Which artists who also contributed to the early Warhammer/Rogue Trader mythos had the biggest influence over your work?


TH: I had some preparatory material sent to me including a lot of wonderful early 40K designs by Will Rees: Surreal, dark and very gigeresque I also later got to meet other design studio bods and artists at meetings, Games Days and conventions. It was a hugely fun, encouraging and creative team to work with.
I was especially pleased to meet a few of my existing art heroes: Jim Burns and Ian Miller were artists whose work had enthralled me for years. I also met Martin McKenna, Tony Ackland and Pete Knifton, among others, artists with whom I had a great deal in common in terms of interests and influences. Martin, in particular, was like me a massive Whovian (at a time when little Dr Who was officially available on video) and a comic art enthusiast too.





RoC80s: When we spoke at Salute, you mentioned how you were drawing Space Marines for Rogue Trader without secure knowledge about what their legs would look like, as the miniatures hadn't yet been completed. Was this a common problem during your work? Did it throw up any difficulties? If it did, how were they resolved?


TH: It was never considered a problem really as in those early stages things in the 40K universe were yet unfixed, bar the fact that the universe was a vast and varied place! There was a lot of creative room for artists to contribute to what would later crystallise into the canonical background, and anything else would simply be explained as nonstandard local variation. The same freedom would allow the gamer to import into their 40K games whatever models they could find, scratchbuild or co-opt from other ranges, which was important when there were very few "official" figures and vehicle models yet available for the game.




RoC80s: How did being a freelance artist work in relation to the studio? Did you attend meetings? Receive support materials or design briefs? How did you know what the art department wanted?


TH: I was kept informed mostly by phone or letter and sent photocopies, sample figures and photos for reference. I did go up to Nottingham a few times for special briefings, albeit rarely.





RoC80s: Slaves to Darkness is 25 years old this August. What can you recall about working on the book? Was it a chaotic and problematic as the 'legends' suggest?


TH: If the 40K universe offered a lot of creative leeway, Chaos added even more, so many of us GW artists were especially keen on this project. I didn't have any inkling of problems with that project at the time, I was just revelling in the fun of creating all those whacky Chaos creatures!





RoC80s: Did you work on design concepts for any of the miniature ranges? If so, which ones?


TH: I never directly designed any of the model ranges, which was more the job of those working at the studio itself. However at least in the early formative period the designers would often be inspired by the illustrators and vice versa.





RoC80s: What can you recall about cancelled projects? Did you contribute much artwork that was never used?


TH: I did a set of 30 fairly elaborate black and white illos for the project that would have been Battlefleet Gothic. The project was delayed for several years, although they used some material for a short-lived Space Fleet game. The rules leaflet as I recall ended up only a page long! My BG illos mostly appeared in White Dwarf, and very small too, so my intricate (and probably overblown) detail was all but lost. There were a few other illos here and there that never saw the light of day due to reshuffles and rethinks of various projects. The later version of Battlefleet Gothic came out around '97 when I was working at the Luton Games Workshop store (as a keytimer!) with an entirely new set of ship designs and artwork.






RoC80s: You are probably most well known for your 'Patriarch' image published in WD118. What is the story behind this iconic work of art?


TH: There was a lovely model of the Patriarch, his advisor and throne which I was sent photos of. I just concocted the illo from that reference, embellishing the scene with extra details, a background/setting etc. I was very pleased some time later to see that someone had recreated the illo as a diorama using the available model and scratchbuilding my bits around it, complete with caged crow and columns decorated with Terminator helmets. The illo remains a fan favourite and one of which I'm quite proud. I still have the original on my wall.


The Patriarch

RoC80s: You produced a massive amount of black and white pen illustrations for GW... Can you give us non-artists some idea about how long many of these images took you to compose?

TH: It depended how much time I was given! Detailed work in my usual old-fashioned pen and ink style took a relatively long time: Two or three days work for an A3 page. However often there was a need to use a more concise and rapid style. For example on Warhammer Siege I had to resort to a very quick brush and ink style with soft pencil shading because I had 22 illos to complete in one week! I had an exhibition in Luton a couple of years back at which I displayed just about all of the GW originals still in my possession together for the first time...I was actually quite flabbergasted myself to see how much wall space they covered, considering my spell as a GW artist was really only about 4 and a half years in total! I have a great many artwork originals from my time working for GW which are available for sale to serious collectors. See HERE for details!



A well known Eldar image that Tony reworked ,in colour, for celebration of the 25th Anniversary of Rogue Trader.




RoC80s: Is it true you are one of the few artists to have had work stolen from a display in Warhammer World?

TH: That's right! One of my early Eldar illos I loaned back to WW for the anniversary display was prised from a display case and had away with. Thankfully though, it was returned anonymously just a week or two later.I suppose I should feel complemented that someone coveted it so much!!






RoC80s: Where did your career take you in later days? Did you specialise in fantasy and science-fiction or did your skills find different niches to explore?


TH: Actually I've not been as successful as a freelance artist as I might have wished. I more or less stopped during the recession in the 90s, first to do a degree in Psychology and then, finding my self suddenly a parent, I was forced to resort to other "normal" jobs to support my family. Aside from the Fighting Fantasy gamebooks it has mostly been community arts projects, some children's books and some RPG supplements and private commissions for me. It was only recently, since doing Bloodbones in 2006 that I began to seriously think of getting back into illustration in any major way. I even recently did some training as a tattooist, which I enjoyed immensely and hope to continue alongside other artistic projects. Anyhow, I still think my best illustration days are ahead of me and I'm looking for new projects right now!!



One of Tony's other works of art... Disturbing stuff!


More from the fantastic mind of Tony Hough

You can see examples of Tony's work, old and new, at His Official Gallery Site

And can join him online by 'liking' his Facebook Page

And finally, many of Tony's GW pieces are for sale. See HERE for details! Own a piece of British gaming history- if you can persuade the wife to let to spend your hard earned cash!

Few men achieve a legendary status within the pages of history, fewer still genuinely achieve that status when they still draw breath. In my opinion, the word is bandied about with alarming regularity, which has, much like the appallingly overused modern adjectives 'cool' and 'awesome', become rather meaningless.

However, legendary is an extremely apt description for the subject of our latest interview, the one time owner of Citadel and Games Workshop and the man responsible for the 'Golden Age' of British fantasy gaming; Bryan Ansell.

Yes, we got him!

This interview and has come to us thanks to the hard work of Steve Casey over at the Citadel Collector. As some of you will know, he has set about photographing much of Bryan's astonishing collection for some time. When the idea of interviewing Bryan was first suggested, Steve offered to contact the great man himself and facilitate the process. After a few frantic emails between us, we managed to thrash out a fair few questions to get us going...

It was supposed to be a joint project between our two sites.

Then life happened...

And the idea was lost to the ether and cast out into the Realm of Chaos.

Then, quite unexpectedly, exactly to the day of the first birthday of this blog, Bryan emailed me with his response. And, well, here it is!

Before we begin, Bryan has a few words to say to you all.

BA: I feel obliged to issue a warning: the things that I'm about to ramble on about happened a very long time ago.

For 33 years, my life was a constant whirl of toy soldiers and everything associated with them.
New things were happening all the time. Every working day saw more concept drawings, toy soldiers, illustrations, text and baffling eccentric behaviour. It was hard enough to try to keep up with everything back then: much harder to remember it all now. As I approach my dotage, I find that it's quite difficult to differentiate one long-gone, frantic year from another. My memories of much of the fine detail have either melted away entirely or become unreliable.

It's probably best not to believe anything that I write. I will most likely babble incoherently and not answer any of the questions properly.

Working with early Citadel/GW was a very pleasant way to make a living. The company remained a nice size that allowed us to get interesting things done without bogging down too much in bureaucracy or internal conflict.

A benign Realm of Chaos even.

I had opportunity to be at the centre of things, witness those exciting periods of early growth close up and work with many stubbornly idiosyncratic, talented and goodhearted people.



Slaaneshi Champion riding a Steed of Slaanesh. Look at the colour scheme. Beautiful. From the collection of Bryan Ansell.
RoC80s/CC: Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness is 25 years old this year. What inspired the original project and what do you feel was at the core of its success.

BA: Chaos Warriors were deeply embedded in Warhammer from early in the history of Citadel. In 1977 Citadel opened up in a riverside warehouse among the scrapyards on Millgate in Newark. We had three staff. By 1981 we had ten or so staff, and we were in a bigger, pleasanter, warmer, Victorian building near the centre of Newark on Victoria Street. During those four years, we had been making fantasy models aimed at the Dungeons & Dragons market and historical models for historical gamers. There were a few sets of fantasy rules about: Rick Priestley and Richard Haliwell had published Reaper, I think that South London Warlords had a set of fantasy rules and I vaguely remember an American system called the Emerald Tablet: but there wasn't a significant amount of tabletop gaming going on with fantasy miniatures. Most our staff at Citadel were gamers, and as we were surrounded by those fantasy models every day, it was inevitable that we should all want to start fighting big fantasy table top battles.

We had reached a point where Citadel had become quite successful in the context of the (very much smaller then) toy soldier "industry". It seemed like the right time to bring in people who could get us moving forward with more interesting toy soldiers. The more interesting toy soldiers could then lead to us building our own fantasy gaming system, which could be a tabletop rival to Dungeons & Dragons. The only people that I knew who seemed at all likely to be up this task were Rick Priestley and Richard Halliwell (Lincoln), Tony Ackland (Stoke-on-Trent) and John Blanche (Nottingham). I had known them all during my time at Asgard. They all joined up. We were all amazed when John agreed to come along: what with him being a proper artist and everything.

We were supposed to be a sister company to Games Workshop (who were still publishing Dungeons & Dragons back then). But there was a degree of friction and discord between the two companies. I was told that the London end were jealous of the amount of money that our packers and casters were earning on piecework. Other than in the Hammersmith Games Workshop shop (run by the big, amiable, pro-Citadel American Tim Olson) none of the Workshop shops sold our models in any quantity (I believe that Tim still has a full set of all those big, haphazard, incomplete, mono coloured flyers (illustrated by Tony and John) that we did to announce the arrival of new models back then).

Games Workshop shops kept our models unpackaged as loose castings, either on or behind their counter, in sets of tiny plastic drawers. This did not encourage purchase. The GW shops sold very few toy soldiers.We supplied independent shops with those wire racks that we used to have. They had hooks that carded bags containing our models dangled down from. Later we went over to blister packs. The same blister packs that Foundry use now. The independent shops cheerfully sold plenty of our toy soldiers.

In the end, a party of Citadel staff went into the Sheffield Games Workshop, took away the awful tiny plastic drawers and hung our racks of wire hooks and dangling toy soldiers up on their walls.
Sheffield started selling loads more Citadel: I think the sales went up by a factor of six or seven on the next Saturday. Then the other Games Workshop shops were supplied with racks and dangling toy soldiers too. This brought in useful amounts of cash to go towards our new projects. However, we upped our wage bill by about 50% when we employed our first team of creatives. Money was tight for a while and succeeding with the new models and the game had become a matter of sh*t or bust.

Rick, Hal, Tony and John put Warhammer together and established the early Citadel/Warhammer style of writing, illustrating and modelling that was to hold sway for a decade or so. We also introduced our Chaos Warriors and Beastmen to the world. We didn't bust.
Some time later Alan Merrett (who had been with us as a caster almost from the beginning) would join this group as an invaluable administrator and all round dependable person. He is still out there at GW administrating and being invaluable. Michael and Alan Perry sculpted almost all the models in the early Warhammer period. John Blanche provided them with splendid drawings of Chaos Warriors, Beastmen and suchlike. These weren't really concepts: they were actual illustrations of how the models were to look .I have always thought that those very early Beastmen/Broo were the best Beastmen we ever did.

From the beginning Chaos Warriors were established as a really important part of the Warhammer landscape. Those early models, drawn by John and sculpted by Michael and Alan, found a special place in the hearts of gamers and collectors. They always sold very well. We went on to make huge quantities of different Chaos models over the years. So, when much later we had the opportunity to produce big, lavishly over-illustrated, chart-packed hardback books, Chaos was the obvious first subject. It also gave us an opportunity to team John up with Ian Miller and to involve almost all the freelance artists we had accumulated. Realm of Chaos was the last major project that I was involved in to the end. I don't think I was around long enough after that to see all the Ork books finished.


Warhammer was nearly called Battleblade:
also, Warhammer was typed by Rick Priestley's mum.

Not a lot of people know that.




The original fimir sculpt, by Jes Goodwin I believe. From the collection of Bryan Ansell.

RoC80s/CC: The Realms of Chaos books had a very long gestational period over several years. Was the project a difficult one to complete?

BA: I don't remember the gestation period being inappropriately long. Big rule books, large numbers of toy soldiers and masses of art take a while. However, between the first and the second volume I had started working in a cycle of four weeks in Baltimore followed by six weeks in Nottinghamshire back and forth: I wouldn't have been so omnipresent at the studio and I might not have been sensitive to the time that passed.

RoC80s/CC: How much influence did you have over the initial design of the Chaos Powers? Tony Ackland has told us he recalls you giving him outlines of each of the four gods from which he build the concepts.

BA: During the opening stages of any new project that I was initiating, I would briefly have a great deal of influence on how the background and all the other detail was constructed. I would usually produce a (very) long document describing the content and the models that I imagined we would create. I would then talk about the project with the in house writers, the sculptors and with Alan, Rick, John and Tony. Then, with different people busy working on different areas, the details would naturally change and mutate as new ideas from everyone else were brought into the mix.

The writers, the artists and the sculptors would inevitably have considerable influence on the final content and detail. I have vague memories of writing an initial chart of Chaos Attributes before we had really started on the book. I don't remember exactly to what extent it was altered before publication, but I'm quite sure it would have been changed, modified and extended all over the place by other hands

I remember being very keen that rolling on the various charts to create Chaos Warbands should be a pleasant undertaking: engrossing in its own right.

I might speak to the writers about how we could use the text to create a particular background and atmosphere, but I would then leave them to get on with it. Having had the discussion, I would very rarely seek to then change any of the resulting text. I would chat with John and Tony in a similar way. My schedule didn't allow me to have a great deal to do with the other artists, but I would try to spend time with the sculptors at least twice a week. The sculptors received concepts, and took part in discussions, more often with John and Alan than with me. Then they would then go off and do their own thing within the general context of the information they had been given. Jes Goodwin would often provide his own concepts. If Rick had a project, he would get on and write it: we just had to coordinate his writings with the toy soldiers we intended to create.
It was very important that all the creatives: writers of text and rules, illustrators and sculptors knew that they had control of and responsibility for the detail and character contained in their work.
We were producing too much material to micromanage: and anyway, if we hadn't allowed all those individual personalities to shine,we would have ended up with clinical, souless games, books and toy soldiers.
I'm fairly certain that the very first piece of art that was done for Realm of Chaos was the group of illustrations of the four gods on page 14. I believe that I talked to John Blanche about the four gods, and that the artwork was completed quite some time before any other work was done on Realm of Chaos. As I recall, it was on an A4 piece of board. It's a shame we didn't use it as a full page illustration. On the same day, I think that I also talked to John about illustrations of four Gods of Law. It's possible that sketches were done: if so, I have no memory of what they looked like. The Gods of Law were going to be even more ferocious than the Gods of Chaos.

I mostly only initiated toy soldier related products. I was involved in a few board and card games. I had almost nothing to do with the game content of roleplaying games. I may possibly have expressed an opinion on Warhammer Roleplay scenarios a couple of times. I had a dictaphone and two touch typists. I believe that my only Realm of Chaos intervention was removing a piece of text that seemed to imply that a Nurgle demon had molested children at a circus. As a general principle: no self-respecting sculptor, artist, game designer or writer (or mouldmaker or caster) can stand being told what to do by someone who can do none of those things.

Quite rightly too!


Advanced Heroquest Warrior and Henchmen. Bryan oversaw the early, pioneering work that Citadel did, along with Bob Naismith, into the production of high quality plastic models. From the collection of Bryan Ansell.
RoC80s/CC: The work of Michael Moorcock is evident in chaos as a whole, but what else did you draw on and what were your literary and artistic influences in general?

BA: Certainly, Michael Moorcock was an influence and inspiration. Michael Moorcock and Tolkien cast massive shadows over the whole fantasy industry: in my case Jack Vance and Clark Ashton Smith were equally important.
I don't think our vision of Chaos Warriors overlaps much with that of Michael Moorcock (although we did occasionally borrow his arrow symbol).
For me, all the roots of the Chaos Warriors that Citadel made over the years lie with Frank Frazetta's "Death Dealer" paintings and sketches, the first few "Chaos Warriors" that Tony Ackland made at Asgard (also the one that Stan Pochron made) and John Blanche's sketches from the early 80s.

I think that the first fantasy stories I read were the "Faraway Tree" tales by Enid Blyton.

When I discovered fantasy, science and historical fiction in the 1960s Moorcock wasn't visible enough yet to make it into my local (Arnold) library. I was enthusiastic about Jack Vance, Clark Ashton Smith , Harry Harrison, Fritz Leiber, Keith Laumer, James Blish , Robert Sheckley, Brian Aldis , Edgar Rice Burroughs , Kurt Vonnegut, Robert Heinlein ,TH White, Cyril Judd, Fritz Leiber, Philip K Dick and others . Also Russell Thorndike, Rafael Sabatini, Hubert Cole, Alfred Duggan, Mary Renault, Henry Treece, Geoffrey Trease and Leslie Charteris.

I have books by all those people in the room I am sitting in now.

I didn't discover Moorcock until the Hawkmoon books in the early 70s. Tandem was publishing James Branch Cabell and getting him to me via WH Smith at round about the same time that Moorcock appeared: so I still associate them with each other. I don't think that Cabell has had any influence on my fantasy gaming, but I am quietly obsessed with him. I recommend "Figures of Earth", "The Silver Stallion" and "Jurgen" to anyone who might enjoy his poetic Edwardian prose and sly wit.

I suspect that only a small, eccentric minority of gamers are going to be interested in who my favourite artists might be. But: Frank C Pape is my favourite artist. Followed by (in no particular order) Winsor Mckay, John Duncan, NC Wyeth, Druillet, Mobius, Klimt, Albert Robida, Beardsley, Dore, Bruegel, Durer, Richard Dadd.


'80s Chaos in all its intricate detail. You don't see banners like this anymore, do you? A homage to this is going to be a must in my Khorne mortal army. From the collection of Bryan Ansell.
RoC80s/CC: Where did the names Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch and Nurgle originate?

BA: Nurgle is an "actual" god (honest). Nergal is a Babylonian god who goes back to prehistoric times: he was still around to be worshipped by the Assyrians. I changed the spelling because I thought that "Nurgle" was more amusing. Also, it could be the sound of a death rattle, or air being expelled from a rotting, putrescent carcass. Nergal is god of death, disease and pestilence. Also god of war and ruler of the underworld (or sometimes his wife is). As he's been around for a very long time his attributes have changed back and forth over the years. I'm sure he's extremely pleased that we are still thinking of him. Perhaps with all this attention we might eventually conjure up a physical manifestation.

Khorne was derived from Conan's "Crom", who is an "actual" Celtic god who can also be spelt Krom or Khram. Good name for a war god.

Slaanesh was meant to be a sibilant, erotic, breathy, whispered/murmured sound. The models didn't turn out quite as erotically charged as I'd hoped.

Tzeentch was meant to be the sound of a spell blasting out. Like in a Dr Strange comic. It also has a sort of Aztec feel: which goes with the feathers and the bright pastel colours.

We did not plan any other powers during my time: other than perhaps the Gods of Law (and Malal-ed)
RoC80s/CC: In broader terms, can you recall examples of other cancelled projects that never saw the light of day during your time at Games Workshop?

BA: We talked about many things that we never actually got round to. Loads of things. I think that any manufacturer of anything must inevitably do that. At the point that I left Games Workshop, work had started on a fourth game for MB. It was a chariot racing game. It never came out. I gather that models were made: so there are probably bootleg castings out in the world somewhere. Much more interestingly: before my departure John Blanche produced a truly amazing set of concepts for dark elves. They were the best concepts that I had ever seen. Jes Goodwin might also have been involved. I'm fairly sure that they were never made.

I'd like to see them again.

RoC80s/CC: Was there a premeditated plan for how the RoC miniatures range should look, or did you just give sculptors free reign?

BA: The sculptors were given pretty much free reign with regard to sculpting style. I suppose that as each new sculptor joined they found that a general style already existed amongst the sculptors in the studio and they modified their own style to some degree so that it fitted in.

The exception to this was Bob Olley, it was soon apparent that Bob had his own very particular way of doing things . So we gave him his own brand: "Iron Claw".

I thought that they were great!




Chaos Dreadnaughts '80s Citadel style. Very chaotic and the anti-thesis of today's bland design. Fantastic colour scheme to boot. From the collection of Bryan Ansell.
RoC80s/CC: You really encouraged artists to produce vivid works: was a striking art resource something that just developed or was it planned early on?

BA: John Blanche organised all the artists: internal and external. He was very good at articulating what we needed from them. He was also very good at picking artists whose style was complimentary to the work of our existing team and at providing calm leadership. I think that over the years all of us steadily got better at what we were doing.

RoC80s/CC: You have a large collection of painted vintage figures, many of which can be seen in the RoC books. Do you have any plans to open up the collection to the viewing public?

BA: I do have a collection of early models: which Steve has been very kindly photographing and cataloging.

We live in a Hall near Newark. We have spent a substantial part of the last 10 years rebuilding and restoring it (only six rooms to go). We run the main rooms as a wedding centre (www.stokehallweddings.com). In a central hallway we have a great big cabinet filled with over 2000 toy soldiers. The rest of my toys are hidden away in many drawers. When we have a wedding the big cabinet of toy soldiers always draws at least a handful of ex Warhammer players.

Probably just over half of the grooms that have passed through here are ex Warhammer!

We have a second building complex. This is a five sided courtyard completely surrounded by large buildings. No one has knocked it about since 1812. It used to be carriage houses, stables, brewery, laundry, belltower (we just fixed the bells), storage and accommodation for the single men. It's about 10,000 ft.². The Foundry sculptors used to work in the courtyard. I store 5,000 master moulds there: many of them date from the seventies. The building is not in terrible condition: it just needs some roofing, plastering and new floors. In a couple of years we hope to sort it out. We have been talking about eventually putting in a model soldier museum.

Best not hold your breath though!

Bryan Ansell.


Bryan today, with come of his collection of classic Citadel. Imagine the game you could play with that lot , eh? From the interview in Wargames Illustrated (and nicked off Coop!)
And so ends the interview. Did you know that the original name for Warhammer was Battlebalde? Could you have linked the writing of Enid Blyton to the influences behind Warhammer (joke)? I can honestly say that receiving the email from which this interview was built, and editing and preparing this interview has been one of the greatest pleasures of my wargaming life. And, dear readers... If you are planning to get married, why not suggest Stoke Hall to the missus, eh? Not only is it a truly outstanding location, but you can gaze at the collection of the mighty Ansell as the guests mingle!

A massive, massive thank you to the great man, Mr Ansell, himself, to his son, Marcus, and Steve over at the Citadel Collector for setting up the interview and provide invaluable advice with the development of the questions.

Only one thing to ask!

Did we do better than Wargames Illustrated?

Orlygg

Bryan is being very modest and exceptionally generous as always - his leadership inspired us all to greater things and his driving enthusiasm obliged us to develop what talents we had. I learned a lot of what I know about the business thanks to Bryan and I owe him a great deal indeed. He'll have to make do with my thanks though Thanks mate!

A couple of points I would add to - though as Brian rightly says it was all a long time ago and no-doubt my memory isn't to be entirely trusted either - but here goes!

Battleblade might well have been a name we toyed with for Warhammer - but the working title for Hal and myself was Runesword or Runeblade or something like that. I remember we ended up having to choose a different name because GW also sold RuneQuest and didn't want any confusion.

I think if my mum had typed the Warhammer manuscript it would have been a much better job! The production artwork was typed - but I typed it - on our brand new Rank Xerox 860 Word Processor (clunk clunck whirrrrr... insert disc A). My mum may well have helped us out with some later projects as proofreader - she was a professional typist and secretary and quite good at that sort of thing. We had a typewriter at home - which is why I could type (most men of my generation couldn't before the advent of personal computers).

The Armadillo in Space: An Interview with Tim Pollard
So far, Realm of Chaos 80s has managed to track down and interview some Old School Icons about their time working at Citadel during the 'Golden Age'. Namely, the Grand Master of Chaos Tony Ackland, the Patriarch Tony Hough, Mr Warhammer Rick Priestley, 'Eavy Metal pioneer (and Oldhammer's Painting Guru) Andy Craig and the great man himself, the Mighty Avenging Bryan Ansell.

The subject of our latest interview is not well known. Though he stood at the beating heart of Citadel, later Games Workshop, during the 1980s and was involved in a great number of now classic products. His name rings a subconscious bell though, look at it again and think...

Tim Pollard.

Tim Pollard..?

Where have you heard that name before? Well, I can tell you! Don't deny it when I spill the beans though! His name appears in the credits for Warhammer Third Edition, Warhammer Armies, Rogue Trader... the list goes on and on. You know the credits I mean, don't you? The ones that used to appear on the contents page of White Dwarf (along with plenty of 'joke' titles to describe Bryan Ansell) and also appear in the front of WFB3, WHFRP and all the others. The credit lists that you read from time to time, mentally acknowledging the famous names and the wonderous products that they have produced in their time, along with the 'where are they nows', like Sid, H and BiL Sedgewick.

I know that you look at them! And I know that you often idly wish that you had been amongst their number back in the glory days of British '80s fantasy gaming.

I managed to get in contact with Tim through Andy Craig and the Oldhammer Community on Facebook. Tim posted up a series of photographs of his collection that blew many of us away. It seems that Tim was a an avid collector of GW material during his days with the company, only he didn't just collect the releases, he managed to get his hands on the bloody originals!

Just have a gander at what we have below!

Yes, that is Slambo. THE Chaos warrior and one of my favourite miniatures. Only, under this one's dust is the exquisite painting of John Blanche. Digital photography really brings out the quality of the paintwork, as well as the thickness of that varnish, and lots of little details that have not really been seen before. Sure, we have all seen this model before, it was published in White Dwarf several times, but how many of us have noticed the subtle skull blending on the helmet, the black ink work on the axe heads or the tiny stars on the strapping and boots.

But this is just the tip of the iceberg!

....

{snip]

Anyway, let's get down to the interview itself. Tim was involved in the manufacturing of miniatures since the 1970s and worked with Bryan Ansell in the very early days of Asgard. It was at this point that we began the interview.

RoC80s: You were one of Bryan's team at Asgard in the early days. How did you initially become involved with the world of fantasy gaming?
TP: Way back at junior school a friend brought some tiny model tanks in to show people, I imagine they must have been Skytrex 1:300 modern armour -I say 'modern', that meant '1970's' at the tim). He mentioned he had a magazine with a listing of some Lord of the Rings figures in it and brought the advert in next day and sold it to me for 5p(!) It was an ad for Minifigs classic 'ME' range - as they couldn't call it 'Middle Earth'. I started collecting them, got a copy of SELWG's 'Middle Earth Wargames Rules' and I was off. From that early start I ended up getting a Saturday job at the now long-gone 'Nottingham Model Soldier Shop', and I used to travel down to the original GW store at Dalling Road in London and then eventually moved into hanging around and then working in Asgard Miniatures, also in Nottingham, where sculptors like Nick Bibby and Jes Goodwin first started. I still (to my equal delight and shame) have unpainted (and in some cases still packaged) minis from that time!


RoC80s: How about joining Citadel properly, was it natural progression from Asgard or something different?
TP: It was a natural progression, helped enormously by me being able to drive by then as Citadel was still in Newark at the time. But by the time GW had moved to Nottingham a fair few of the folks from the Asgard crowd had already moved there (John Blanche had been a regular there, as had Alan Merritt for instance) so I first moved into Mail Order at Eastwood (where I produced a magazine called BLACK SUN which went into subscriber copies of WHITE DWARF) and from there into the Design Studio. I know I've got loads of the original artwork, which was mainly by me, and some of the original layouts hanging around somewhere. Basically, it was put together by me in my room using whatever illustrations and bad jokes I could put together. GW were splendidly indulgent of my silliness, sense of humour, writing style and mickey taking. Oh, and it had the first ever Andy Chambers rule in it, which was his 'Kick Off' rule for Bloodbowl!

RoC80s: You are credited in a number of roles during the 'Golden Age', from Studio Assistant in WFB3 to Finished Artist. What kind of work were you responsible for?
TP: I did loads of jobs - copywriting, a few bits of illustration, selling advertising space, naming figures, typesetting and writing WD editorial pieces - in fact pretty much anything - but the best times I had were when I was John Blanche's assistant, where I was responsible for writing the briefs for illustrators. That meant I had to get some miniatures, make sure the artist knew what iconography had to go where and then describe the resulting picture we wanted, what size - and how much we'd pay for it. This meant I was working with folks like Ian Miller, Kevin Walker, Russ Nicholson - all the classic GW artists and really enjoyed the work. Weirdly there were times when I had to ask artists to 'correct' pieces too, which was odd as I couldn't even begin to approach their skills!

RoC80s: You have mentioned that you were responsible for the naming of many of the models in the mid 80s. How did this responsibility develop and how were you inspired to create the names?
TP: Heh! Yes, back in the day each miniature had a name rather than just a code number and for a long time naming them was my job - actually that was great fun, because not only could I enjoy flights of fancy but in order to advertise the minis I got sent at least one of each to photograph, and then I got to keep them! In terms of names - it was anything I could think of from members of bands I was into (hence the Imperial Guard release that was made up of prog rock stars including Emerson, Lake and Palmer, members of Marillion, Hawkwind and Rush, for instance) or another release where the names came from actors who appeared in the original Batman TV series! There was an undead release where they were all named after Sherlock Holmes actors too, simply because I couldn't resist calling the best skeleton 'Basil Wrathbone'!


RoC80s: You shared a flat with John Blanche and other GW types, any amusing stories that you'd care to share about life in those days?
TP: Is there a statute of limitations on being sued for libel? Actually it was great fun, John Blanche lived at my house for quite some time (which was weird as he was my boss at the time) but we got along really well - one of the best bits was that he used to pay the rent in original paintings as he thought it was terribly Bohemian and I just thought it was cool! So now I have the original art for (amongst many others) Adeptus Titanicus, the Legion of the Damned, the first Terminator box set and his beautiful 'Gloria in Excelsis' angel painting. This was the time when I had a Yamaha trike (which I still have) and John was riding a Triumph which sadly leaked oil (as they do) all over my garage so we had to get the Fire Brigade to come out and hose it all down. I think they thought they'd stumbled into a bikers den! Later on Wayne England also joined us and that was a lot of fun, one of the best times of my life! .

RoC80s: You have a very large collection of original art and miniatures from the '80s. Which are your personal favourites?
TP: I've been very lucky, not only did I have great artists and friends like John and Wayne (maybe I should say Wayne and John - it sounds less cowboy-ey) paying me in paintings but other artists were kind enough to do so as well, so I'm very proud of owning all of John's stuff (including some very early pre-GW pieces, two fabulous Space Marine pieces by Wayne, David Gallagher's Skaven illustration (Page 78 of Warhammer Armies) and a lovely dragon painting by Iain McCaig which inspired the cover of WD26 (Iain was the chap who designed the GW logo, by the way). As for minis, again I have some sublime pieces painted by John but also some of the very first, original Space Marine squads painted for 1st Ed. 40k - the original Blood Angels and Silver Skulls, for instance, as well as some gigantic war machines made by the Studio at the time - all good stuff!

RoC80s: One of the Perry's sculpted you an armadillo in power armour. What was the story behind your love of these creatures?
TP: I've loved armadillos since I first saw the cover of Emerson, Lake and Palmer's awesome 'Tarkus' album, which features a creature which is a cross between an armadillo and a British WWI tank! I used to try and sneak mentions of them into WD as often as possible - when I wasn't writing as me I'd often be credited as 'Kurgan "Armadillo" Bradley', for instance). Sadly whilst i was at the Studio my father died and very kindly the Perry's made me a unique piece to cheer me up, an Armadillo in Space Marine armour. It's glorious, and rather brilliantly 'H', the fabulous technical drawing artist even did an 'exploded view' of the armour as a bonus for me, I'm very proud of both of those. I did try to convince GW that the Imperium would use 'uplifted' armadillos in armour to fight Skaven in warp tunnels, but sadly nothing came of that... Having said that, I remember Bryan Ansell categorically refusing ever to do 'space undead' and now we have the Necrons, so I'm still holding out hope... honest!

We will leave the interview at that point for now. As you will have read, Tim has an extensive collection of original artworks from our period, with pieces by Blanche and England hanging on his walls. These will be the subject of a future post and we will be hearing a little more from Tim too.

Change is inevitable and inexorable. It is unavoidable and sometimes unforgiving. But when speaking on this most subjective of topics, the great American motivational speaker and author, Denis Waitley, had this to say: "You must welcome change as the rule but not as your ruler."
Change was afoot in the world of fantasy gaming in the mid nineteen eighties. Dungeons and Dragons, the most influential and far reaching game of its type, ever, was passing through its 3rd revision. In Britain, Games Workshop, the incredibly successful publishing and merchandising company, was undergoing a period of flux. Two of its founders, Steven Jackson and Ian Livingstone, had made themselves household names with the phenomenally received Fighting Fantasy books and needed to pass the running of their company to somebody else. In the end, their General Manager, Bryan Ansell of Asgard, and later Citadel Miniatures, fame bought Games Workshop outright and sensing that the tide was about to turn against the age of role-playing, sought to expand his company through wargames and the metal miniatures that went alongside them. Games Workshop had been based in London for over ten years. It had its own team, with their own contacts and freelancers, in the heart of the capital. But Citadel Miniatures was based in Nottingham, and the new owner was convinced that everything under the new GW brand needed to come out of that Midland city.
Imagine, the UK based Dungeons and Dragons magazine, had folded in 1985 after 30 odd issues. The magazine's remit had been to take on White Dwarf as the source of infomation and opinion about all things gaming, focusing on official D&D and AD&D rules releases. And through the years between 1983 and 1985, the magazine had published a wide range of different materials, most notably (in fantasy gaming) the Pelinore game setting. Neil Gaiman, the influential author, wrote film reviews for the magazine, a later published his first short story within its pages - Featherquest. The editor of this magazine was one Paul Cockburn. After trying his hand at an independent gaming magazine called Game Master, he was out of a job and a series of events, discussed below by the good man himself, found him put in charge of the mighty White Dwarf itself and given the inenviable task of moving the established magazine (and its properties and staff) many, many miles to the north of the country.
What follows is his story. A story of change. And resistance to change. The story of the 3rd editor of White Dwarf (after Ian Livingstone and Ian Marsh) who witnessed the biggest change in GW history.
RoC80s: Tell us about how you got into fantasy gaming/roleplaying in the first place and how this lead to working in the industry?
PC: I'd always played games as a kid, and I recall from some of those that me and my mates always used to 'roleplay' even if that isn't what we called it, and even if there were no rulebooks, dice or minis involved! But then I went along to one of the old London Games Days - this would be in 1981 or 1982. I bought a copy of Basic D&D, and we played it that night. With no-one to guide us, it was a completely different beast to anything I played since! And then I think there was an ad in the paper from TSR UK, who were in The Mill in Cambridge, for an editor for their new magazine, Imagine. I went up, interviewed, and though I didn't get the job, they took me on as Assistant Editor. Even before the first issue, the original editor was fired, so then I was in the hot seat! We just made everything up as we went along, determined only that we would try and muscle in on White Dwarf's circulation numbers.
RoC80s: Who was at TSR at the time you began working there?
PC: There was a photo kicking around on Facebook not that long ago, and a few of us were trying to remember everyone! The late Don Turnbull was in charge, and Tom Kirby, who went over to GW very shortly after I did, and who bought GW some time after I left, was the Carter to his Regan. The editorial team had Graeme Morris (the one I couldn't poach), Phil Gallagher (who took over my portfolio at GW when I left, and did pretty well in the USA), Jim Bambra and Mike Brunton, who followed me to the WD chair. Keith Thompson arrived to have editorial oversight, and Kim Daniel was editorial assistant, while Phil Kaye was graphics and art dude. The sales people and almost everyone there were decent people. I was genuinely sorry to leave The Mill when I was made redundant.

Issue 2 of Imagine
RoC80s: How did you come to work for GW? Were you headhunted? Did you apply for a position?
PC: I might not remember this all perfectly, but after Imagine was closed down (a juicy story in its own right), I played around with my own magazine for a while (GamesMaster Publications), and at some point, after a conversation with Ian Livingstone, I was 'interviewed' for a position-that-didn't-exist. Some while later, I spoke with Ian again, and he asked why I hadn't joined GW. I told him, and he suggested maybe he had put me in touch with the wrong person. I was interviewed by Bryan Ansell, and they made me an offer I couldn't refuse.
RoC80s: Tell us more about Imagine magazine. Was there an ethos other than 'muscle in' on White Dwarf? And what was the 'juicy' ending that you hinted at?
PC: Hmm... well, Imagine was going to be a British Dragon magazine, according to plan. Don wanted to create product in the UK, and he wanted a magazine. So, we had the UK series of AD&D modules, and Imagine. I think the point was that Don was a real contemporary of Ian Livingstone and Steve (UK) Jackson and wanted their level of kudos. So, we tried to make Imagine bigger and better, and since we had D&D, how could we go wrong? We'd clawed up to about half WD's circulation by the time we closed. Basically, the UK operation really couldn't sustain all this activity, and there was a level of... ummm... creative accounting when the time came, that pushed all the losses onto the magazine (or so I was told at the time by a very unhappy accounts lady). Don didn't last too long after that - he'd blown it with the powers that be in the USA, but by then the magazine was gone. A shame. I thought we were nailing it a lot of the time in the year before we closed.
Roc80s: You were working for GW doing the (still) controversial move from London to Nottingham. What are your recollections about this time?
PC: Ah... now that was all a bit rubbish. Let me see. Day 1 of my new time at GW, and only 10% moved from Cambridge to Nottingham, BA sent me to London with a brief to move White Dwarf up to Nottingham. I was to audit all the gear, speak to someone about shifting it all to the Design Studio, and see what staff were willing to move. The crew on WD, well, only one of them was really willing to entertain the idea, and I think we all knew I'd gone there with a 'move or leave' offer. I'd always got on well with the likes of Paul Mason and Ian Marsh, but this wasn't the best conversation we ever had. So, I ended up having to edit White Dwarf because we had no staff! I poached the editorial team from TSR to come join us. I've no real view on whether closing all the London operation was a good thing or not - it was just going to happen. Bryan and Citadel were now in charge, and that meant Nottingham.
RoC80s: Your were Editor of White Dwarf from issue 78 to 83. What did the job involve at that time?
PC: Ha! Did I only do five? I really didn't want the gig, and if it shows in those issues, I apologise to all who had to read it. It was already clear that content was going to change. All non-GW product was going to be phased out, the focus was going to be on miniatures and painting, and WD was on its way to being a GW catalogue. I really didn't want that, and I think already you could see the signs that I was just not a GW kinda guy. I believe in gaming and a wider hobby, not just Warhammer and all that. I hired Mike Brunton from TSR to take over from me, so he really got the short end of the stick. What did it involve? A lot of talking about painted miniatures, and the photography thereof. We had some drama around reviews of other products - GW still had partnerships going with the likes of Chaosium and West End Games, so we featured their stuff. But Bryan had a plan I really hadn't bought into, and so I really was just a caretaker for WD after the move up from London.

Paul was responsible for several classic issues, including the iconic WD 79
RoC80s: Could you expand on the dramas you had around the reviews in White Dwarf?
PC: I don't have clear memories on all this, but I had a few scraps with Bryan over policy. And by the time I handed WD on, it was clear things were heading in a direction that would see the magazine only feature GW product. Along the way, we had a guest over from the USA, and we then proceeded to trash a product that he had written, in a WD review, pretty much while he was in the building. Stuff like that just showed we couldn't sustain a level of independent editorial policy. Everything was political.
RoC80s: Apart from editing the magazine, what other roles did you have during your time at GW.
PC: I'd gone up there to take on a wider editorial role, because there were big publishing plans. Warhammer (presumably 3rd edition-Orlygg) was in its early drafting stages, and then the TSR boys started work on WFRP, and Rick Priestley got started on 40k. We published Blood Bowl and loads of other cool games, some great hardback Runequest stuff, and so on. That's what I wanted to do, and the Publishing Manager thing was great for me. But I got involved in more and more battles, and then get side-lined onto a Special Projects department of one. I was pretty much out of the door from then on.
RoC80s: Many people that I have interviewed about life in the Design Studio have had very positive things to say about there time there. Is this a view that you share?
PC: Nah, not really. I mean, we had some excellent days, and produced some ace product (as well as some dross), but there was a management ethos there that was just moronic as far as I was concerned. I didn't like the strategy the company was following, but that wasn't really my biz. All my battles were fought around the games we published. I'm sure a lot of people who knew me then have memories of me being an arrogant, opinionated prick, and they may not be 100% wrong. I wanted to lead the editorial arm of the most creative games publisher there could possible be. Instead it was snotlings and goblins and all that. Apologies to anyone reading this who loved or loves their Warhammer or their 40k, but I hated them then, and I've ignored them since. I live in NZ now, and there is a GW store in my local city. I look through the door now and then and it just makes me feel old. It doesn't feel like anything ever moved on. I did - I sold what was left of my soul to the marketing profession. I only keep in touch with a very small number of people from those days, but I am glad I met the people I did in the games industry. I still play a lot of stuff, and I'm grateful that I saw that newspaper ad. It probably didn't do me a fantastic lot of good, career-wise, but I wanted to be in publishing, and I loved games. This particular chapter just didn't play out well, I guess.
RoC80s: You mentioned a dislike for Warhammer and Rogue trader, but mentioned other games more positively. What exactly was your contribution to the many games published during your time at GW?
PC: I had editorial oversight on quite a few things at the start. I tossed some ideas into WFRP, like how the Empire was set up, and edited Warhammer pretty hard. 40k, no, that's not me at all, but Blood Bowl has my editing stamp. I also interfered with a few of the boardgames, most notably Blood Royale, which may not have been my finest hour. Bits and pieces of my writing appear in a few products from that era, but I don't tend to have writing credits... I was just the guy in charge of that department. Kinda. Except that 'in charge' was always a bit of an odd concept. GW at that time ran under the Darwinian management philosophy.
And so the story ends. I am sure that you will join me in thanking Paul in giving up his time to be interviewed by this blog. After all, it cannot be easy to regurgitate memories for 25 years since when you are living a different life on the other side of the planet. I for one found his story fascinating, and learnt a great deal about the origins of Bryan Ansell's GW and the impact he had on the direction of British Fantasy gaming.
I began this article with a quote. Denis Waitley's; "You must welcome change as a rule but not as your ruler." Certainly a view that Paul took in his approach to the industry. He clearly was (and is undoubtably still) a man not ruled by change.
Have you been inspired by something you have read here today. Do you have an opinion on Imagine Magazine? Were you a reader, or indeed, a contributor? Or the shift in gear that GW took from roleplay to in house wargaming? If so, please share what you know below.
Don't be scared.
The Realm don't bite!
Orlygg.

No Ventilation: An Interview with Jamie Sims
The Oldhammer Community is an eclectic bunch of characters. As a growing movement, new members crop up almost daily, from all walks of life and nationalities. This is one of the community's great strengths. Occasionally, you meet someone who has an interesting tale to tell and it's a real joy letting them tell it.

One of these people is Jamie Sims.

Initially, we came in contact through his incredible scenery. Jamie wanted to showcase his remarkable work at the Foundry during the Oldhammer weekend. Sadly, a range of factors made this ultimately impossible but I felt his work needed to be seen by enthusiasts of fantasy modelling and gaming, as they were some of the very best I had ever had the pleasure to see. Additionally, Jamie pointed out that he work for Asgard Miniatures in the early days and was witness to a great number of things that will be of considerable interest to the readers of this blog.

RoC80s: Everyone seems to have a different story about how they connected with fantasy gaming. So what's yours?

JS: OK, this is a long story. I got into Dungeons and Dragons very early in its development, in about 1978 to '79. Because of this, I found out about Asgard miniatures who, at the time, were in Commerce Square in the Lace Market, Nottingham. This was in 1981. I got offered a job packing before moving on to casting miniatures. This was at the time when Citadel hadn't even merged with GW. A young John Blanche used to come into our shop to buy our minis, go away and paint them and then come back to sell them back to us for display. It was also the time when an even younger Jes Goodwin came to Asgard to try and start his career off as a sculptor. I can proudly say I saw the first mini he ever made. The boss took it, snapped off two limbs saying; 'this wont cast , and neither will this'. Then handed it back to and understandably crestfallen Jes. It's a credit to the man that he didn't give up right then and there, I've always thought. I've been into the hobby ever since. I've had illustrations in White Dwarf, and in a couple of rulebooks. Additionally, I have made terrain for Realms of Chaos and worked on the 'Eavy Metal team. I've also worked for Target Games, Fantasy Flight, Testors, Paiso + others, and various Computer Games companies. And on a few TV and Movie projects and all this experience has informed how I make terrain and other modelling projects.

RoC80s: What got you started building scenery?

JS: At school we did a thing called the English Speaking Board examination (I know its like something from a Victorian novel, but then I am ancient!) and we had to produce a demonstration, which could be anything at all, and speak about it. I had been for some time making Airfix model planes and building little dioramas for them, using chicken wire and papier mache. This was my first foray into modelling scenery, around 1978. Skip forward a few years to when I discovered Asgard Miniatures, and gamers were all playing Bryan Ansell's western gunfight rules. They had a church with a roof that came off, and all detailed inside and many other buildings. I was hooked instantly! I proceeded to make many big clumsy versions myself from ply wood, coated with emulsion and sand in my mother's garage. The next time was when the GW Design Studio was in Enfield Chambers in the centre of Nottingham City. John Blanche asked me to make some chaos terrain for the upcoming RoC publication. Some years later I started playing 40k with Andy Chambers who I had known from the Asgard days. This is when I actually started making terrain in earnest. In fact some of the pieces I made, being two tier, were what prompted Andy to write the first City Fight expansion rules. A picture of one of my pieces is on the back cover I believe. Anyway the real break through came much later. I was staying with George RR Martin, (Game of Thrones author), at his house in New Mexico. I was making him some scenery pieces to photograph his minis against. I was using my staple polystyrene shaped and coated in sand and paint when his wife Parris, handed me some foam board and said; 'have you tried this?' After that things went stellar. Its such a fantastic medium!

oC80s: Can you tell us how long it takes to complete a project or how much a piece may cost?

JS: The pieces take different amounts of time according to how large they are, if they have interiors or water sections etc. So it’s difficult to say. The Pyramid took about a month, but that’s full time. Also, I like to keep improving things. Generally they’re produced for games. So getting them to a functional state is the first concern. Then later they develop and finesse. For example, I’m midway through re-roofing a lot of the buildings now, with a much better tile effect.

RoC80s: Are the models we can see professional commissions or personal projects?

JS: All of these were produced for personal gaming. However I’m a maker by profession. I produce stage props, sculpture, models, illustrations, simple animations, diagrams, paintings, graphic line work etc. I have at present got two commissions for historically correct models of existing churches on my table. And yes, I take commissions, really for anything.

RoC80s: So do you have a favourite terrain piece?

JS: Ha! Favourite…. Mmm that’s tricky. They all hold different memories. I have difficulty with favourites. I mean if I named one, it might hurt the feelings of the other models…

RoC80s: So if I wanted to commission you to produce scenery, how would I go about it and how much would it cost?

JS: Contact me at my email address: j.sims2@btinternet.com. The price of a commission is completely dependent on the complexity of the piece or pieces the client is after... I would typically sit down and discuss with a client what they wanted and what budget they had, to arrive at a price that suited us both.

RoC80s: You worked for Asgard Miniatures back in the early 1980s. What can you recall about the company?

Asgard in the early '80’s was Myself (the caster) Paul Sulley (the manager), Garry-Slim- Parsons (the mould maker) and Nick Bibby (the sculptor, par excellence) who worked from his flat. The rest of us were in a two room property in the Lace Market. This was the early '80’s and the Lace Market was very run down. These days, people would have snapped those properties up and renovated them as they were period pieces, stunning really. But back then, no one wanted them. So the rents were very cheap but we had NO amenities. No running water, no washing facilities. Not even a toilet! It was a different world. We all happily ate our lunches in a room with a lead melting pot. No ventilation. Absolutely no health and safety. It hadn’t been invented then!! We did a lot of mail order, to the States as well, and we used to import the first and subsequent Ral Partha miniatures. They were just incredible models. And what we didn’t know then, was that Tom Meier made those early sculpts aged just 16 ! Now that’s talent. The way it was run was that Paul made all the decisions, mostly without consulting his partners (Nick and Slim). The biggest example of this was the turning down of an offer of a merger with Citadel. That turned out to be the death knell of the company in my opinion. Asgard had the sculptors and a lot of really good ideas first. And what sculptors too! Nick Bibby and Jes Goodwin for goodness sake! The best in the business by a long, long way, this side of the pond at least. But Citadel had the manufacturing setup. And of course the later merger with GW. Yes that was, I believe, what they call a 'fatal' business decision. Asgard had had almost like a cult following then. There was a core of people that basically spent all their free time there. Amongst them some pretty big talents and names to be; John Blanche, Andy Chambers, Jes Goodwin, Nick Bibby, Tim Pollard, Slim, Asgard Chris, Andy Minor, Pank, Che and myself. It was a whirlwind time for me, being so young. And my life was undergoing huge changes. Although not the career move of the century at £30 a week I'm really glad I was there right at the start of the scene/hobby or whatever you want to call it. Back then it was really underground. No one in the mainstream knew what Dungeons and Dragons was. And it felt great to be a part of this fantastical other world, away from the dull reality of the time.


RoC80s: I don't really have a clue how miniatures were cast back then. Could you explain the process?

JS: Well I didn’t cast for Citadel, only Asgard. There was a melting pot, large ingots of lead, which everyone helped carry in from the lorry when it was delivered. A table covered in tiny fragments of vulcanizing rubber, lots of rubber moulds, lead bits all over, sprue, flashing and other casting detritus. Chip wrappers, coke cans, sandwich wrappers, cigarettes, butts and ash. And your trusty ladle. I'd switch the melting pot on, and once heated, take an ingot of lead, place it long ways up in the bowl, support it until it started to soften and melt, then lower it further in. If you just left it, it would drop suddenly and splash. If you daydreamed whilst supporting it, the same thing. At the time I was 16 and living in the flat below Nick Bibby in Carrington. I was paid the princely sum of £30 a week. One morning there was no food. Except a bottle of vodka. Being 16 I thought I’d try and make it through work on just that. I nodded off while melting two bars in at once. I got sent home that day. It was an early lesson in life. Anyway, the process was that you opened the centrifugal casting machine lid, put in a mould, closed the lid, started the machine, took a scoop of molten lead with your trusty ladle, and poured it in (in as even a flow as possible) into the mould through a hole in the centre of the lid. If you poured too fast it would clog, too slow and it didn’t fill the mould.Then you put your ladle down, stopped the machine, opened it, took out the mould and placed it on the table. Your work flow would be to pour, turn and empty the previous mould, turn back, stop the machine and take out the full mould, replace it with an empty. And start again. This was done in the the back room. I was the only caster, Slim was opposite me making moulds (with a very high degree of skill I might add) . And Paul would biuble in and out from the front room (shop with no counter) doing important stuff no one understood.

RoC80s: And what about the moulds themselves? How were they constructed?



JS: In a vulcanising press. Slim hand cut them first, laid in locating pins, chalked the whole thing, then it went into the vulcanising press. (Which was in the same room as the casting machine and melting pot. His skill at cutting in the shapes and also cutting air runs to the edge of the mould from the mini... awesome.Y ou know, he was having to guage , by eye and experience and just 'cleverness'; where the lead will need help flowing to. Then lines were cut by hand to allow release. Not too thick , or thin... This was highly skilled work. You can imagine, melting rubber, lead, cigarette smoke, no ventillation. Really even the windows were too small and old to open.... Health and safety? ha ha ! I'm still here! No one thought about health and safety.It just wasn't on the radar. At 14 my father died and it blew the family apart, literally. So as soon as I was 16, I left school , left home and got the job at Asgard. Left to my own devices as a kid that age however i had become practically feral within a year. And a few months after that, I started to realise I needed to go back to college. I'd always only ever been interested in art. And living in the flat below Nick Bibby I was constantly in awe of his creations. He was an extremely good painter as well as sculptor. I had my sights on art college and so I bit the bullet and went back to my mother's house and signed up for College and resat my exams. A few years later I been through the uni system. and bumped into John Blanche. He asked to see my work, and started to give me commissions here and there. The odd illustration, or a few days mini painting with the then fledgling 'Eavy metal team. And one day the terrain making for Realm of Chaos. I have to say those pieces I did were right at the start of my career and although great experience... they are not my best work shall we say.

oC80s: So what of the wild tales? Readers of this blog seem never to be sated on amusing anecdotes? All these young (ish) guys working in such conditions all day must have resulted in a prank or two?



JS: One day we were packing a big order for the States. Paul was very excited. It was a big deal. We were all helping; as then, you put the minis in a little clear bag, and stapled a label on, having already hand written the code on said label. It took a while. Anyway, Slim was eating a bacon sandwich and such was the level of frenzy to get the order packed and off however; he forgot to finish it! In fact he’d put it into one of the half full boxes and someone else had put more minis in top of it. In those days it took a up to a month to get a package like this to its destination in America.You can imagine what it was like when it got there. The recipients actually took it in very good humour, considering how much it must have smelt by then! That same order also got some surprise 'dungeon debris' packs. Being young and stupid we thought it would be very funny to scoop up dust, cigarette ends and bits of lead, bag and label them as Dungeon Debris, with their own code. Amazingly, the recipients got the joke! Even commenting on it in a later missive. I can’t remember which company it was but they had a sense of humour. Now comes the Blanche ‘ Full -Liche wand Phallused- cloaked and cowled barbarian’ story! When Nick made the 28mm Conan cover inspired Barbarian, it was simply ‘The best 28mm mini made, to date, in England’. John Blanche used to come in regularly, buy minis or get given them in return for painted returns. John’s stuff was just so far ahead of anyone else it was dreamy to see it. The things he’d do.. conversions before anyone was doing that. And such amazing imagination. And as for the actual painting…. John invented wash and dry brush. Say no more. His ability was, within its field; nothing short of visionary. And he loved the barbarian. We used to joke ‘John bases everything on the Barbarian!’ The amount of wonderful things he did with that one mini. Also in Asgard's ranges, was a mini of a Liche. The Dungeons and Dragons module; Tomb of Horrors demanded that all self respecting D&D mini companies had a liche. So Nick made one, clutching an extremely phallic wand. I think it was meant to be a snake's head wand, (or maybe Nick was just bored?). Well John took a barbarian, added a cloak and cowl wrapped almost all the way around the figure, but just slightly open at the front. Exposing the new, upward jutting, ‘appendage’ the lucky barbarian had gained. It was laugh out loud funny but also, so well done, it was excellent. Subtle yet shocking. And painted perfectly. Really it was another sign of the times. And a testament to how John approached things as an artist. But can you imagine it now?



In a shop display cabinet?


You’d get lynched!!



And so ends another old school interview. I am sure that you all will agree that we need to thank Jamie for giving up his time to talk to us and share his wonderful models and memories. If you are interested in seeing more of his work, just follow the link below to his portfolio and feast your eyes on his output.

http://sticksnstones.info/portfolio.php

And his email address for commissions is...

j.sims2@btinternet.com



Orlygg.