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Made in gb
Morphing Obliterator






Hi all. I am sure these have been posted before, but thought I would weigh in anyway.

1. Mournfang option for Ogre characters (Tyrants, Bruisers and Hunters only).

+ 60pts for the above characters to ride a Mournfang (exactly as per the Mournfang cavalry entry but without the existing ogre rider obviously).

I feel this is a fair cost for the extra movement and attacks gained by the Mournfang as by taking this option, you are paying for an ogre rider that you aren't getting (the cost of a basic Mournfang Cavalry model including beast and rider also being 60pts).

I would also like to see an option for Hunters riding Mournfangs to be able to join a unit of Mournfang Cavalry but I guess with the reasons behind their Loner rule, it could be unfluffy.

I purposefully didn't give Butchers/Slaughtermasters or Firebellies this option as the Mournfangs get put off by the Ogre either chopping bits off them for the magic or being singed all the time by the Firebelly!

2. Option for Bruisers and Tyrants (or maybe just Tyrants?) to ride a Stonehorn. + 250pts

I think this would be a cool option as I could imagine the Hunter catching a Stonehorn and offering it as a tribute to a powerful Bruiser or Tyrant.

In fact, I would probably make this a Tyrant only option, and possibly consider making the Tyrant take a Big Name to allow him to ride it (Beastmaster or similar) for either 10 or 15 points.

3. Flamelord (Lord level Firebelly) - 350pts

Same stats as Slaughtermaster.
Same weapon options as Firebelly
Level 3 Wizard - upgrade to Level 4 for + 35pts
Flaming Attacks - as per Firebelly
4+ ward save as standard (increases to 2+ against flaming attacks) - or 5+ ward as standard and immunity to flaming attacks?
Lore of Fire only
Possibly remove the once per game restriction on his breath attack (or make it once every other turn?)

Thoughts please fellow generals? Are these good options for an ogre player, are they fairly priced and would you non-ogre players mind playing against it?


Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors & Night Lords 7900pts

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





1. I don't think you're going to see much MC for heroes. There's some, but the ones that exist are usually pretty wussy and not the 8th ed super MC. Mournfangs basically have monster stats at 1/4th the cost and without having to be alone (which is why no one takes monsters as mounts). An empire demigryph mount would be way better than an imperial griffon and it would cost 1/3rd as much, which is why you can't do it.

In a theoretical world if you could choose between giving a slaughtermaster a stonehorn or mournfang, even at equal cost, you'd have a tough choice but would probably pick mournfang. And it costs 1/4 as much as the stonehorn. It is simply not specced as a hero mount. The big thing is because they are too cheap, they are too good (their armor bonus and attacks at cost), and you can sit in a group of mournfangs and get LoS.

2. I don't know about stonehorn mounts. I can't see many people doing it, but it also cheapens hunters a bit, which are already never taken. I don't think it's as big a deal as mournfangs, though. It's kind of a dragon mount.

3. Nothing is immune to anything. A single skink can kill 1000 giants and all the hordes of chaos if you roll it. And firebelly doesn't have a ward save except 4 ward vs. fire. He's not going to get a 4+ basic. That's as good as a slann. Then add in he's vastly better in combat and fire breath. The point of Firebutts is that they are tribal guys. Ogres aren't huge magic. They have guttmagic. Minor fire. To get some other (limited) stuff, you have your guttmagic tax. This lvl 4 caster would be better than the best empire fire caster or elf fire caster and in many ways better than a Slann fire caster. That's just not the meta of the Ogre army.


I wouldn't play a mournfang mount for anyone. I don't think a stonehorn would be bad for a tyrant. I wouldn't want to see a slaughtermaster on it because his passive heal could make things ugly. Definately not on the flamelord, his stats are too good and I don't think it really fits. Maybe in a campaign you could have him as some legendary enemy.

   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Tyrants and Bruisers would be fine with a Mournfang mount from a balance perspective.

Its probably the only thing that would get Tyrants to see any real competitive play and would make them a viable alternative to the Slaughtermaster.


I'd price the Mournfang mount at 70 pts myself.

Stonehorns would be cool for Tyrants anyway. Full 250 for it though.



I think there should also have been a Firebelly lord option. An equivilant to a Slaughtermaster.

Maybe call him a Firebeltcher.

Slaughtermaster stats, Str5 Breath Weapon, Lvl3 Fire Wizard, no lvl4 option, but is Loremaster. 325 pts

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Grey Templar wrote:
Tyrants and Bruisers would be fine with a Mournfang mount from a balance perspective.

In opposite land, sure. No one in the 8th books can use a MB/MC with >2 attacks. And most of the books have one. Necroserpent, Demigryph, Mournfang. The huge bonus to armor they give as well as not taking away bunker protection and gigantic attacks means every combat hero has to have one. It's basically doubling the combat power of a hero for a fraction of the cost and none of the downsides of being on a monster (that is only marginally better in stats). I.e., the only reason to NOT take one would be because you have to field MC units to bunker him in for LoS.

   
Made in gb
Morphing Obliterator






Sounds good Templar.

I would be tempted to up his ward save vs flaming attacks to 3+ or even 2+ though, to represent the fact that he is closer to the Fire Mouth than a Firebelly is.

I am prepared to drop the standard ward save as no other characters come with one like Duke said (except daemons and slaan).

I also think Firebelcher sounds more Ogrey to me than Flamelord (sounds like chaos warriors).

As for the mournfang mount, I am reluctant to increase the cost any further as you already would be paying for the ogre rider that you aren't getting, but I suppose that 70pts is fair as the increase goes some way towards paying for the Look out Sir! roll that the character would get from a Mournfang unit.

I think the stonehorn option is fine as is (+250pts - Tyrant only) so don't really have anything to add to that.

I also had the idea for a unit of Ogres that have travelled to the Great Maw and returned to tell the tale (a unit of Mawseekers if you will).

They would have standard ogre stats but with + 1 Toughness and be subject to stupidity (identical to the Big Name that Tyrants can take) but would only be able to take additional hand weapons plus full command (no ironfist option).

They would also have some kind of table to roll on to determine the benefits of the blessing of the Great Maw, perhaps something like this:

1 - No effect
2 - Hatred vs everything
3 - Frenzy
4- Stubborn
5 - The unit always counts as rolling 10+ on their movement when charging for calculating how many impact hits they get (i.e. always D3 per model)
6 - 5+ ward save vs non magical attacks

The Ogre player would roll on this table after deployment but before the first turn.

I would price these guys at 45pts each plus the normal cost for command options and +4 pts per model for additional hand weapons. They would come with light armour as standard.

They would be a Rare unit and come with the stipulation that only Tyrants with the Mawseeker Big Name can join the unit (as they are the only ones who can put up with the incoherant babbling). I would also either limit them to a 0-1 choice or limit their unit size to 10 (Ogres who have seen the Great Maw are supposed to be super rare after all).

I would call the unit Prophets of the Maw or similar, but I imagine someone can come up with something more Ogre sounding than that!

What do you think? Do these guys sound fair?


Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors & Night Lords 7900pts

 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





1. Mournfangs are great mounts. Consider how much you'd have to pay for magic items that gave your character +X attacks, +X armour, etc.
On the other hand, a unit of Mournfangs will typically have a lot less wounds than a unit of Bulls. So the benefit of the Look Out, Sir! roll is diminished in that respect.
I'd play-test it at 100pts and see how it goes.

2. Stonehorn mount? Sure. Tyrant only makes the most sense to me.

3. Two questions: is Loremaster on an only-ever lvl3 better than a lvl3 who can go up to lvl4? I think so. But does that mirror the Firebelly better? I can't recall.
A 2+ versus flaming would be fine, I think (it's a 5pt magic item). But yeah, no static Ward saves on anyone who isn't positively dripping with magical power (the Slann, the Screaming Bell).

4. the Pilgrims of the Maw idea is pretty cool. I'd change up that random table, though; result 6 and 4 are way better than the others. Maybe 1-2 Hatred, 3-4 Frenzy, 5 D3 Impact, 6 Hatred, Frenzy, -1Ld?

 
   
Made in gb
Morphing Obliterator






The reason stubborn was on the table was to represent religious fanaticism plus a way of giving them a leadership bonus seeing as they can only joined by a tyrant (which nobody uses apparently).

Also the ward save was a way of giving them some resilience as they only have a 6+ save (even with T5, they aren't too tough with that!).

If these options are taken out, I would like to include a leadership boost and the option for heavy armour and/or ironfists, but would most likely go with ironfists I think heavy armour would detract from the look and feel of the unit (i.e some kind of robed, priest caste in the ogre army).

Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors & Night Lords 7900pts

 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

I'd make them bulls as far as equipment goes.

Give them the option to purchase Heavy armor for 3 pts per model. Ironfists for 2 pts per model. And Great Weapons for 8 pts per model.


Otherwise, make them T5, Ld8, WS4, and one roll on the table.


2D6 result


2-4: Stupidity and Stubborn

5-6: Hatred(everything)

7: Frenzy(and can never lose it)

8-9: ITP

10-11: 6+ ward save

12: 5+ ward save and MR(3)


Price them at 50 pts each naked.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





I dunno, I just really don't like a list of random elements that range from detrimental to amazing. It just takes so much tactical decision away.
I'd rather see a list of options that are all more or less equal. Hard to plan for/against, but without the chances of the unit being a waste or the best thing ever.

 
   
 
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