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Ratting Hood (basically robin hood) who steals from the rich and gives to himself. His lands were stolen from him so he is trying his best to steal them back may be a good back story. He also promises freedom to skavenslaves though it's actually a lie.

I'm not entirely sure on the profile of this guy so i figure BS 5 as he'll be an excellent marksman probably with a deadly bow with warpstone arrows (come on skaven put warpstone in everything ). He probably has the ability to raid and stay hidden. Also in a challenge i'd say he has the ability to steal an opponent's own gear (weapons, armor, etc.) and use it on themselves possibly. He may be a good assassin. Maybe he can outflank with a unit of his special men (rat-men?) and lots of slaves. Gotta wonder if i'll do his crew of little jon and maid marrian. I think skaven maid marrian would be a brood horror that he rides into battle. Of course maybe a skaven in drag would be hilarious too.

Rink, villain of time (link, hero of time) who is basically a swordsman.

He sounds normal at first but considering the 3 parts of the triforce he has the triforce of cowardice ;P possibly. This would allow him to break from duels and attack said character in a challenge without getting hurt back (maybe falls to the back rank after making a very cowardly backstab and then running away with his tail between his legs and a trail of urine along the way). I might also work this in a different way and make him courageous for a skaven with an inspiring presence. Maybe give him leadership 8 (a lot for a skaven ;P) and allow him to give it to his unit. I'm wondering what i should give to 'Rink' in the way of magic weapons if any. The 'master sword' should probably have an appropriate name too for a skaven though i'm not sure what i'd name it right now ("the rat-ster sword"). Maybe give him a rat beast named rat-pona or something which he can shoot off of and then run circles around the enemy with.

I figure if i do either of these two models i'll use the clanrat/slave models (the ones with a hood) and modify them and paint them green or similar. Possibly make a little feather hat for ratting hood . If i do ganon i think it'd be in the form of a beastmen doom-bull.

Other than all this i was also making a clanrat not long ago and while snapping in an arm for one of them (it was part of an 'island of blood' set) the bottom popped out of the base and the front of the model went up a bit. I then immediately thought of a skaven on a surf board or a skateboard and it brought a smile to my face.

Possibly i could also do steampunk skaven or some similar thing with them. Clan skryre is already fairly steampunk though.

---------------------------

So what do you guys think of these ideas so far? I'm not sure on how i'd do these two characters but i'm just throwing ideas out there. I don't want them to be too powerful so WS 5 or 6 tops would probably be likely (they are basically either chieftains or special character chieftains and should have a stat-line similar to such). I'm thinking of this more as a fun characterful group of heroes or one hero. I think naming everything with 'rat' in it is a bit lacking in the creative department for me but i can't think of what they'd name a character while still maintaining the right feel for a skaven. Sadly for some reason skaven lack bows. The have slings (which might work if i use 'young rink' and his slingshot) or ratting hood's 'merry men' but some bows would be needed for some like ratting hood.

Ok so opinions, ideas, criticism (long as it's constructive)?

To be honest, this is for proposed rules, not for your conversion and fluff ideas. You've given some really, really broad rules ideas here, but until you flesh them out, there's not a whole lot we can tell you.

Yes well i was trying to think of a profile a such for said characters. I dunno at first glance i thought of it more as proposed rules.

I just like the idea of said characters. I feel like they'd be a lot of fun.

I like the sound of Ratting Hood, he sounds fun.

I would say you should make him attack like an Assassin perhaps but give him the rule that he can use a randomly generated magic item belonging to the opponent in a challenge (except for Arcane Items as he is not a Wizard).

Although I think it would be more fun to allow him to use Arcane Items anyway but at the risk of having to roll a miscast after he does it.

Perhaps allow him to transfer his LD to units of Skavenslaves as if he were the general?

How about something like this:

Ratting Hood

M:6
WS:6
BS:4
S:4
T:4
W:2
I:6
A:3
LD:7

Equipment - Warpstone bow, light armour, hand weapon

Special Rules

ASF

Rob from the Rich, Keep for Myself

In a challenge, Ratting Hood may gain the benefits of one randomly generated magic item used by his opponent. This may be an Arcane Item even though he is not a wizard, however if he uses the item, then he must automatically roll on the Miscast table after determining it's effects as he is not familiar with such artifacts. If Ratting Hood wins the challenge, he may keep the item for the rest of the battle. If he is slain, then the enemy character retrieves the item from Ratting's corpse (unless it is a one use only item, in which case it must be discarded).

If Ratting should then go on to steal a further item from the same category (i.e. two magic weapons) then he must choose which one to use and the other is discarded (unless recovered by the enemy as above).

Scouts (only if on his own or joined to Gutter Runners)

Warpstone Bow - As per longbow but with strength 4 and magic arrows, causes D3 wounds.

Hero of the (Rat) People

The Slaves of Skaven society believe that Ratting Hood is there to lead them in a revolution to secure their freedom. Of course, he has no intention of doing any such thing, but is quite happy to foster this impression for his own ends.

Units of Skavenslaves within 12" of Ratting Hood may use his Leadership as if he were the army general.

I don't know much about Skaven so would not be sure about a fair points cost but I would say somewhere around 80-85 points?

He is incredibly random in abilities (he could steal the enemies ultra killy magic sword or he could steal their dispel scroll - you just don't know!) so I think 85 is a fair cost.

@rohansoldier: I dunno about the 85 pts part. I'd have to check around about some other heroes. It's more the magic item stealing power that's the big question here. It's random like skaven and that's good but it's hard to tack on a good points amount for that considering it could be a magic item anywhere from 5-100 pts. Chieftains are 45 pts i'm pretty sure so being almost double the cost sounds ok. Once again i'll have to read about similar characters. He almost costs as much as a warlord at that points amount but some of those abilities are decent.

Yeah , knowing now that cheiftains cost 45 I would say 85 is fair for a guy with the same stats (more or less) with only light armour and a magic longbow for weapons.

OK so he could end up nicking the enemies 100pt magic sword as you said, but he could end up with their shield or a dispel scroll or something....

I guess as this ability is so hard to put a points value on, he would really be for very friendly games only!

Make him a chieftain in every way, except with light armour. Give him the bow (S4, MS2, D3 Wounds), the stealing-ability (but make it that he can steal only after after a successful CC Hit). 45pts+25 for the Bow, 20pts for the stealing. 120pts. Toss in Scout and Hit-and-Run for...eh...20 more points.
No ASF (he's not an Assassin). No giving-Slaves-his-Leadership; the only weakness of Slaves, the most tar pit on the game, is that they must stay near the General.

Also, Clan Scyre isn't just "fairly steampunk". They are steampunk, through and through.

Warpsolution wrote:
the stealing-ability (but make it that he can steal only after after a successful CC Hit).

Are we talking a successful hit or a successful unsaved wound? Honestly a successful hit would make sense since he can hit the guy and not need to wound him in order to take an item. A successful hit might not be too hard to make with 3 attacks if that's the case. It makes it incredibly likely he'll steal something within the first combat phase. Also i have to ask how it'd work with the weapon he steals? Does he roll to hit with all 3 attacks first and then if he makes a steal he rolls to wound and etc. according to the rules of the weapon? I could probably see this working as no magical weapon should have poisoned attacks but this could get a bit confusing. Also i suppose he could make 3 steal attempts with his attacks which roll to hit as normal or possibly just one steal attempt that needs to hit in order to steal (which sounds a little more fair if somebody has some super awesome 100 pts weapon but multiple steal attempts may be ok in the case of cheap multiple magic items). That said if somebody knows about ratting hood he could very well opt out of the duel and throw some red-shirt champion at the guy instead. I suppose this is more something you won't worry about if you can figure out how best to duel ratting hood. Should we still go for stealing items working just like hits that go at his initiative or possibly hits done before the actual fight (basically pickpocketing the enemy and then revealing himself)?

If we do all this by the original suggestion then he'll probably steal a weapon and be unable to use it in his first fight should he live long enough to make it to a 2nd combat phase. Then again if you knick the enemy's super awesome weapon from them before they get to do anything it's pretty much just them punching ratting hood in the face while he smirks at them for the rest of the combat. Also if we do this in the case of him hitting at his initiative in order to steal then something with a higher initiative or ASF could cut him down before he even gets the chance to steal. I suppose that's just a risk to his points and the face that initiative can still matter somewhat.

I'd say Hits, not Wounds. He doesn't need to stab anyone, just get his paws on them.
As for the rules question, the answer is simple: all of your attacks are made simultaneously.

You know, I was originally going to opt out of posting in this thread at all; I find that there are enough jokes and good times to be had in my games without deliberately making silly characters and rules.

BUT. Then I remembered Natty Buboe. He's mentioned in the current Skaven book, and he's obviously a joke (ever hear of the legend of Natty Bumppo?).
So here's a quick side note:

One unit of Jezzails in your army may replace its champion with Natty Buboe for +40pts. Natty has BS5 and the Sniper special rule. In addition, the unit gains the Skirmish special rule.

Or something like that.

I honestly kind of wish that jezzails could count shooting at war machines as hitting crew and said crew's toughness and wounds. That said i'd imagine they'd be harder to hit. Possibly a -1 or -2 To Hit modifier. Maybe we could also get the ability to hit handlers more frequently if we so chose whenever one is with a monster or shooting characters riding monsters.

I'm aware of natty buboe but not the story behind the character he represents. That said i totally wish he got a character. I dunno something different among all the normal special characters would be cool. That said there's quite a few special characters as is and i don't think any will get added beyond a couple and they will probably replace other characters. I don't expect any characters with new models will get replaced however. If that's the case maybe ones like throt may take a backseat in the next army book. Dunno who else would probably take a back seat.

rohansoldier wrote:
I like the sound of Ratting Hood, he sounds fun.
Perhaps allow him to transfer his LD to units of Skavenslaves as if he were the general?
Ratting Hood

M:6
WS:6
BS:4
S:4
T:4
W:2
I:6
A:3
LD:7

Equipment - Warpstone bow, light armour, hand weapon

Special Rules
ASF
Rob from the Rich, Keep for Myself
Scouts (only if on his own or joined to Gutter Runners)
Warpstone Bow - As per longbow but with strength 4 and magic arrows, causes D3 wounds.
Hero of the (Rat) People

+1 Movement, +1 WS, +1 Leadership is a solid boost over a normal chief.
ASF isn't cheap, it's 25 points for most armies.
Scout likewise comes in a 15-20 points (the restriction on scout is meaningless, as you can only ever scout if you are on your own or with other units that already have scout).
That bow is awesome. 30" range makes it a lot better than most magic bows, and that it does multiple wounds is really good as well.
Hero of the Rat is a horribly powerful, effectively making it possible to have the whole table be a massive wall of Ld10 steadfast slaves.

As is, this guy should be fielded, he's way too undercosted and the slave bonus is too good to point a point value on.

Here's how I would change him.
Stats as Chief, but BS5 and M6 (Leadership 6).
Master of Survival: Rattlinghood has a knack for survival that is 2nd bar none. He has a 5+ ward save and he and his unit rolls an extra die when fleeing.
Scout.
Warpstone bow. S4 armor piercing sniper.
Master Thief: As soon as a challenge is accepted both players roll a D6 and add their initiatives, if Rattlinghood total is higher, he steals the opponents weapon, shield, helm, enchanted item or talisman, Randomize between options present. Rattling hood keeps the item unless killed in the challenge.
Hero of the Rat: While in combat, all slaves within 18" may use his leadership. They foolishly believe his victory may lead to their freedom.

I'd put this guy in around 100 points. The extremely good bonus of slave leadership is tempered with him needed to be in combat.


-Matt

Is it possible his leadership bubble is toned down to 12" instead of being 18"? 18" sounds a bit excessive.

I could imagine the bow being a sniper weapon but are we gonna leave out the chance to cause multiple wounds or even D3 wounds? I suppose D3 wounds is a bit much but it only goes through 2 armor anyway.

I think the master thief choice you stated would allow the item to be stolen and used before the fight actually happens which i could totally see happening.

I think i'd agree that Leadership 6 is probably the way to go if he can give said leadership to slaves.

If he has the scouts ability he should be allowed in units of gutter runners although i could imagine said gutter runners might look more like elite thieves/bandits rather than say ninjas.

I dunno about ASF. It might not sound too bad at first but in some cases if ratting hood steals an opponent's best weapon then not only is he striking first with said weapon (which may have been nearly all of the enemy hero's wargear) but if his initiative is higher he also gets re-rolls to hit with it. That is incredibly hard to throw points at and could make him insanely stupid in some challenges.

As far as +1 movement, +1 WS and BS 5 goes i can imagine that more than the leadership boost for some reason. This all depends how you work this. If he leads slaves then it's probably really stupidly strong. If not then it's not that potent. As it stands he sounds more potent than a warlord could try to be though very random. He's very flexible in what you'd want to do and good at multiple things.

I don't really see a +5 ward save as being too terrible by itself. I mean that's pretty basic and not that strong. He is basically a rogue/thief that i could imagine being hard to pin down that probably has a good dexterity to the point of doing acrobatics and some such coupled with the fact he's a skaven so it's even easier when considering that. I mean assassins have a +4 ward save for dodges and even other chieftain type characters have a pendant or similar that helps give a ward save (like the item tretch craventail uses).

Could he possibly be hidden like an assassin only to be revealed when a combat starts or when the owning player chooses? I think that could work in the sense that his powers for leading slaves don't work until he is revealed.

Another thing i have to ask is that the 'weapon stealing' power is very strong up to the point i'd probably only use said character in very friendly games with agreements before the battle and possibly other made-up characters that opponents can use. You guys probably understand but he's not just getting a weapon he's also taking one from an enemy and if he survives this weapon is his weapon until his next steal if he's only allowed one magic item at a time or he just has multiple pieces of gear (probably getting way too potent and powerful at that point).

I believe he should have the stealing ability in some form but how is this going to work for special characters? Perhaps only magic items can be stolen as mundane weapons are not something a master thief would bother with.

-----------------------

@warpsolution: On the subject of natty buboe how does it really help that he gives jezzails the skirmishers rule? I suppose they'd be harder to hit (coupled with jumping into 'fozzrik's folding fortress' from earlier it could be very hard to shoot this unit with BS based shooting) and could reform more easily but generally you'd want to be shooting with your jezzails as much as possible i'd imagine.

I'm liking this idea, but I think you should scrap the whole idea of the Leadership Bubble. Robin Hood was an inspirational figure, but never any leader of men greater than your average general. You shouldn't be able to have the general's bubble and Ratting Hood's bubble. Besides, were talking Skaven here, so any nobility Robin Hood ever had would just be tossed down the drain as soon as he was Skaven-ified.

One interesting idea is to give him a band of "Merry Rats", a unit of slightly enhanced Gutter Runners, who could benefit from Ratting Hood's leadership.

 The Shadow wrote:
I'm liking this idea, but I think you should scrap the whole idea of the Leadership Bubble. Robin Hood was an inspirational figure, but never any leader of men greater than your average general. You shouldn't be able to have the general's bubble and Ratting Hood's bubble. Besides, were talking Skaven here, so any nobility Robin Hood ever had would just be tossed down the drain as soon as he was Skaven-ified.

One interesting idea is to give him a band of "Merry Rats", a unit of slightly enhanced Gutter Runners, who could benefit from Ratting Hood's leadership.

Yes but the thing is here that the skavenslaves believe he is going to free them with promises of all sorts of good things like freedom once he takes back his lands. Also he probably does give them a mild bit of goodies (mostly in the form of garbage he doesn't care about) so that they follow him around and believe what he says which is probably in the form of half truths and outright lies. I figure if he does give leadership to slaves it should be in the same form as throt does to pack beasts. The leadership bubble would only be for skaven slaves though and nothing else.

As far as the gutter runners idea with the merry men i've mentioned it before. I also mentioned a possible maid marrian character in the form of a skaven in drag or a brood horror that he rides into battle.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
I'm liking this idea, but I think you should scrap the whole idea of the Leadership Bubble. Robin Hood was an inspirational figure, but never any leader of men greater than your average general. You shouldn't be able to have the general's bubble and Ratting Hood's bubble. Besides, were talking Skaven here, so any nobility Robin Hood ever had would just be tossed down the drain as soon as he was Skaven-ified.

One interesting idea is to give him a band of "Merry Rats", a unit of slightly enhanced Gutter Runners, who could benefit from Ratting Hood's leadership.

Yes but the thing is here that the skavenslaves believe he is going to free them with promises of all sorts of good things like freedom once he takes back his lands. Also he probably does give them a mild bit of goodies (mostly in the form of garbage he doesn't care about) so that they follow him around and believe what he says which is probably in the form of half truths and outright lies. I figure if he does give leadership to slaves it should be in the same form as throt does to pack beasts. The leadership bubble would only be for skaven slaves though and nothing else.

Still, if you're going to do this, you need to bump up the points value. Slaves are one of the strongest units in the book, hell, the game, and their only real disadvantage (on the tabletop) is, like someone else said, that they have to be near the general. Perhaps saying his Leadership bubble only affects a unit of slaves he joins that can be a maximum of X models would be ok, but I'm not liking it as it is.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that the only characters who can pass their Ld to other units are Lord-level characters. With good reason.

I'd just say drop it, no matter how much sense it could make. Anything can be justified, if you use the right words. More important is how the ability would affect the game, which, in this case, is too much.

Another option would be to downgrade the character even further, and make him a special Unit Champion (+1BS, magic bow, his unit can re-roll Flee! results and has +1Ld)

rohansoldier wrote:
I like the sound of Ratting Hood, he sounds fun.

I would say you should make him attack like an Assassin perhaps but give him the rule that he can use a randomly generated magic item belonging to the opponent in a challenge (except for Arcane Items as he is not a Wizard).

Although I think it would be more fun to allow him to use Arcane Items anyway but at the risk of having to roll a miscast after he does it.

Perhaps allow him to transfer his LD to units of Skavenslaves as if he were the general?

How about something like this:

Ratting Hood

M:6
WS:6
BS:4
S:4
T:4
W:2
I:6
A:3
LD:7

Equipment - Warpstone bow, light armour, hand weapon

Special Rules

ASF

Rob from the Rich, Keep for Myself

In a challenge, Ratting Hood may gain the benefits of one randomly generated magic item used by his opponent. This may be an Arcane Item even though he is not a wizard, however if he uses the item, then he must automatically roll on the Miscast table after determining it's effects as he is not familiar with such artifacts. If Ratting Hood wins the challenge, he may keep the item for the rest of the battle. If he is slain, then the enemy character retrieves the item from Ratting's corpse (unless it is a one use only item, in which case it must be discarded).

If Ratting should then go on to steal a further item from the same category (i.e. two magic weapons) then he must choose which one to use and the other is discarded (unless recovered by the enemy as above).

Scouts (only if on his own or joined to Gutter Runners)

Warpstone Bow - As per longbow but with strength 4 and magic arrows, causes D3 wounds.

Hero of the (Rat) People

The Slaves of Skaven society believe that Ratting Hood is there to lead them in a revolution to secure their freedom. Of course, he has no intention of doing any such thing, but is quite happy to foster this impression for his own ends.

Units of Skavenslaves within 12" of Ratting Hood may use his Leadership as if he were the army general.

I don't know much about Skaven so would not be sure about a fair points cost but I would say somewhere around 80-85 points?

He is incredibly random in abilities (he could steal the enemies ultra killy magic sword or he could steal their dispel scroll - you just don't know!) so I think 85 is a fair cost.

I love this!