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Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Lots of good stuff here Ninth!
I will make sure to add them all for the next update in a few weeks, along with point changes and comp updates.

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






So a straight feedback note; basic Ogors (Ogre Bulls for those of us who remember the old days) are 115 points for 3, adding additional models for +38 points each, and adding ironfists for +2 pts per model. First off this is really annoying when it comes to listbuilding! Secondly, the difference in cost here between ironfists and dual weapons is pretty much irrelevant when the ironfists are a notably better option (though not significantly so). The mortal wound effect does go away with rend -1, but cover brings that right back and means you deal mortals on a 5+ save if the enemy doesn't have rend. Mystic shield also helps. Accordingly, I think Ogors would be better priced at 105 pts for three, +35 to add new models, and +5 pts/model for ironfists.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

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And finally we have Sylvaneth battalions!

Free Spirits - 75 pts.

Lords of the Clan - 50 pts.

Household - 100 pts.

Forest Folk - 125 pts.

Outcasts - 85 pts.

Sylvaneth Wargrove - Free

Oakenbrow Wargrove - 185 pts. Note that as per the FAQ models can chose not to swing in melee. Keep this in mind if your opponent attempts to abuse this battalion with a deathstar unit!

Gnarlroot Wargrove - 150 pts, +25 per Treelord Ancient, Branchwych, or Branchwraith included individually (this does not apply to models taken as part of an included battalion). [This battalion's benefits provide a strong incentive to simply take wizards on their own ("Any number of additional Sylvaneth units") rather than including any optional battalions. The point tax allows the base cost to be cheaper so not to penalize the latter option.]

Heartwood Wargrove - 200 pts.

Ironbark Wargrove - 250 pts.

Winterleaf Wargrove - 115 pts.

Dreadwood Wargrove - 185 pts.

Harvestboon Wargrove - 100 pts, +15 per Branchwraith included individually (this does not apply to models taken as part of an included battalion).

Guardians of Alarielle - 275 pts.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

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Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Here are the points for Bonesplitterz & Azgorh Shar'Tor:

LEGION OF AZGORH (Forgeworld)
Bull Centaur Shar'Tor The Executioner 280pts


BONESPLITTERZ
Maniak Weirdnob 100pts

Wurrgog Prophet 160pts

Wardokk 80pts

10 Savage Orruk Morboys 100pts
Additional Models +10pts
- Bone Totem 5pts
- Morboy Boss 5pts
- Skull Thumper 5pts


10 Savage Orruks 80pts
Additional Models +8pts
- Savage Boss 5pts
- Skull Thumper 5pts
- Bone Totems 5pts


2 Savage Big Stabbas 100pts
Additional Models +50pts

10 Savage Orruk Arrowboyz 100pts
Additional Models (up to 20) +10pts
Additional Models (over 20) +12 pts
- Savage Boss 5pts
- Skull Thumper 5pts
- Bone Totems 5pts


5 Savage Boarboy Maniaks 160pts
Additional Models +32pts
- Savage Boar Boss Maniak 5pts
- Boar Totem 5pts
- Boar Thumper 5pts


5 Savage Boarboys 120pts
Additional Models +24pts
- Savage Boar Boss 5pts
- Boar Totem 5pts
- Boar Thumper 5pts


---------------------------------

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So a straight feedback note; basic Ogors (Ogre Bulls for those of us who remember the old days) are 115 points for 3, adding additional models for +38 points each, and adding ironfists for +2 pts per model. First off this is really annoying when it comes to listbuilding! Secondly, the difference in cost here between ironfists and dual weapons is pretty much irrelevant when the ironfists are a notably better option (though not significantly so). The mortal wound effect does go away with rend -1, but cover brings that right back and means you deal mortals on a 5+ save if the enemy doesn't have rend. Mystic shield also helps. Accordingly, I think Ogors would be better priced at 105 pts for three, +35 to add new models, and +5 pts/model for ironfists.


I've thought about this, and I'm beginning to wonder if it wouldn't be a better choice to just make both options the same cost.
- The Dual wield means approx. +0,2 higher damage output, which goes up higher when they charge.
- The Ironfists in their basic form means approx. 0,17 dmg from saving rolls, which can be lowered or upped by rend/cover/shield to. In cover+shield they do 0,5 dmg, but then against -1 rend and no cover/shield they do 0. I don't think that's really worth 5pts, but agree that 2pts is somewhat annoying.

Thanks for the new Battalions mate! Will add these along with all new units once I get back home from my vacation
---------------------------------



Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
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Always happy to provide battalion costs!

In regards to Ogors, the trick is that the Ironfists deal mortal wounds, allowing to unit to put damage on high-save enemies they would otherwise have trouble damaging with their no-rend attacks. The synergy with other Ogor units is also worth note, since the basic Ogor Bulls' damage output is less useful in when all the other units are so hard-hitting. Their most likely battlefield role is to be support or objective-holding. But it's ultimately a minor difference and that's just my two cents. I think equal cost is still much better than the 2 pts thing!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/18 19:57:17


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Apologies PPC players, for I forgot to point out the new terrain model! But you may cease weeping now, for here is the number you so desperately crave! [/sarcasm]

Crucible - 165 pts.

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Made in se
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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Always happy to provide battalion costs!

In regards to Ogors, the trick is that the Ironfists deal mortal wounds, allowing to unit to put damage on high-save enemies they would otherwise have trouble damaging with their no-rend attacks. The synergy with other Ogor units is also worth note, since the basic Ogor Bulls' damage output is less useful in when all the other units are so hard-hitting. Their most likely battlefield role is to be support or objective-holding. But it's ultimately a minor difference and that's just my two cents. I think equal cost is still much better than the 2 pts thing!


After some more considerations, we will make it a free choice of equipment for the Ogors.
I've ordered my Handbook now, can't wait to dig into it properly! I almost (just almost) wish my vacation was over so I can get back home and start working on the next update properly

I like your new signature alot, Ninth!

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Haha thanks!

In other news, the Fatesworn Battalion has had its value change due to the GHB FAQ giving us a clear ruling on spell-repeating battalions (they can't).

[edit] Also, I somehow missed the Daemon Cohort of Tzeentch in my repointening! Suffice it to say that the battalion has been nerfed into the ground and the cost has similarly come down a great deal.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/24 07:59:37


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Splitting bones and pointing battalions! I am also taking the GHB values into account and matching them if the value is close to what I'd put it at. These battalions are marked with a *.

Kop Rukk* - 100 pts

Snaga Rukk - 75 pts

Brutal Rukk* - 40 pts

Kunnin' Rukk - 150 pts

Teef Rukk - 100 pts. Note that the extra attack round does not need to target the monster...

Savage Warclan - Free

Bonegrinz Warclan - 200 pts

Icebone Warclan - 150 pts.

Drakkfoot Warclan - 125 pts.

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Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




So the General's Handbook has arrived (and what a great book it is!). We've been discussing how to change the PPC to better reflect these new times, and this is what we're thinking. It is as always open for discussion!

New Comp Document

Force Organisation
We have yet to decide if we should:
1) Keep the current one (50%/50%). This gives people freedom of choice but keeps mono-artillery/heros/monsters lists at bay.
2) Use the same as GH (Battleline, Leaders, Behemoths etc). This is what people will be accustomed to anyway.
3) Remove alltogether and let Tournament Organizers do as they wish. With proper points, stuff is balanced either way so who needs limits.

We are leaning towards alternative 2 or 3 here.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

- Remove the Grand Alliance limits, and instead use GH:s bonuses for being in alliance.

We first thought about putting points to the abilities and items and open them up to use multiple times/army. We really miss the days when you could sit for hours adjusting your list with which magic item to put on which hero. In the end it felt like it would be too much work though.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

- Keep the section on Battalions.

We have LOTS of Battalions in PPC thanks to the hard work of Ninthmusketeer, so we might as well keep this text in the Comp Doc as well
---------------------------------------------------------------------

House Rules
- Keep base measuring.
- Add all three GH "rules of one". Remove the current PPC rule about Dice Rolls.
- Use the GH way to use summoning (pre-paid points pool!). Remove the current PPC way of doing it.
- Not use GH "Triumphs" for having less points than your opponent, as its way easier to use all your points in PPC...just add a few more models!
- Keep the Silly Rules always active. Not much of a problem these days but should be included nontheless.
- Keep the scaling cost of models such as Zombies/Freeguild Guard etc.

Battleplans
-Re-write the PPC battleplans to feel more in line with the ones from GH. Remove the section on Tie Breakers in Tournaments. Haven't had any feedback on them so far from tournamnets so possibly not used (or the tournaments didn't come down to ties).
- Models deploying or re-deploying (using special abilities) can not score victory points or objectives on the turn they arrive. This will also affect the official battleplans.


What to you guys and gals think about these changes?

Cheers!

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
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I would say to make PPC an explicit add-on to the GHB, the 'next step' for players who want more balance and granularity. This is to say use the GHB force org, rules of 1, and summoning rules. From there, alter things as little as possible. B2B measuring is a given, and silly rules always active should probably stay too. I think removing the Triumph rule is a good idea but include a note as to why. Going back to army composition, I would strongly recommend leaving Allegiance abilities unpointed as I think having to factor those would drive people away. Also Fyreslayers should be moved into Order, since GW has been pretty explicit at this point about putting them there. Either use the GHB restriction of Grand Alliance only (easy to miss but it's in there) or add a rule that players can mix Grand Alliances but will give up any Allegiance abilities in doing so (as the GHB should have done). I don't consider the scaling point costs a house rule as much as just part of the points cost, but that is one of the big pulls for PPC so definitely keep it. And finally, I think PPC should use the unit maximums from the GHB but not the unit minimums (use the minimum from the warscroll instead).

So in other words:
-Option 2
-Everything else you said
-Put Fyreslayers in Order
-Use Warscroll minimums and GHB maximums

[edit] One other suggestion! Add a rule that states "Factions without their own allegiance abilities (Ironjawz, Flesh-Eater Courts, etc.) may utilize those of their Grand Alliance instead. This allows said factions to access their unique battleline choices without giving up allegiance abilities entirely."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/27 21:21:23


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Regular Dakkanaut




 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I
So in other words:
-Option 2
-Everything else you said
-Put Fyreslayers in Order
-Use Warscroll minimums and GHB maximums

[edit] One other suggestion! Add a rule that states "Factions without their own allegiance abilities (Ironjawz, Flesh-Eater Courts, etc.) may utilize those of their Grand Alliance instead. This allows said factions to access their unique battleline choices without giving up allegiance abilities entirely."


Other people have also suggested option 2 so we will go for that and make the new force org similar to GH.

Some people have been asking to place Fyreslayers in order, while some have been wanting them to stay in Mercs (to use them with Azgorh and others). I will make a post on the blog about it and let people vote, and we'll do as the majority wants. I will include the option to mix GA but lose the Allegience abilities as well, that is how my group would want it!

Using the GH maximum numbers of models seems like a good idea, we'll probably go for that. Using the warscroll minimum will not change, we don't care much for some of the changes in GH (looking at you Bret units).

Your suggestion about specific allegience using their GA bonuses is very sound! I thought it worked that way up until now that I re-read it because of your post...it's definately going into the PPC comp.
EDIT: Looks like its been FAQ:d to work this way - good news!

Btw, I saw your post about Firebellies and Fanatics on the blog. Seems like good suggestions but haven't brought it up with the group yet. Our Ogors player will be happy though

Cheers!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/30 10:40:19


Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
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Attilla wrote:
Your suggestion about specific allegience using their GA bonuses is very sound! I thought it worked that way up until now that I re-read it because of your post...it's definately going into the PPC comp.
EDIT: Looks like its been FAQ:d to work this way - good news!
Where was it FAQ'd like that? I'm looking at the one for the GHB and there's nothing which changes it. I'd love for them to errata that but I'm not sure they have...

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This is what I was referring to:

You can choose to take
either the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your
army belongs to, or the allegiance abilities for the Grand
Alliance your army belongs to.

It doesn't say you must change your allegiance, only that you can choose either bonuses.

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Attilla wrote:
This is what I was referring to:

You can choose to take
either the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your
army belongs to, or the allegiance abilities for the Grand
Alliance your army belongs to.

It doesn't say you must change your allegiance, only that you can choose either bonuses.
Ahhh I see now, thanks for explaining!

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While the Batletome: Dominion of Chaos may have snuck in under the radar for some, not so for the keen-eye'd Musketeer! After review, I'm putting the terrain battalions within (Realmgate Matrix, Bound Arcanabulum, Mythic Ruin, and Magebound Gate) as free. For starters they are really more cinematic pieces anyways, and in a strictly rules sense they aren't all that good for one player over the other.


[edit] Also, some Start Collecting battalions!

[Flesh-Eaters] Royal Hunt - 100 pts

[Ironjawz] Smasha Boys - 100 pts

[Khorne] Murderband - 60 pts

[Stormcast] Blessed Host - 150 pts

[Sylvaneth] Heartwood Host (? - not sure on the name) - 100 pts

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/01 18:23:17


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Fresh-Faced New User




Hi Guys,

What's the overall opinion of the balance between Grand Alliance bonuses? Any need for weighting some of them or maybe giving handicaps.

I hadn't seen any discussion on this yet (sorry if I missed it?)
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Jorthax wrote:
Hi Guys,

What's the overall opinion of the balance between Grand Alliance bonuses? Any need for weighting some of them or maybe giving handicaps.

I hadn't seen any discussion on this yet (sorry if I missed it?)


We've only briefly touched upon this subject with an idea to point cost each ability/artefact, to make a system similar to the one in Fantasy Battles where you could tailor your heroes with different magic items. This will not happen for a long time, if ever. We need to see how good each battletome's bonuses are first.

The same goes for the GA bonuses. While many people will find some bonus better than the other, it's abit early to tell how things will pan out with new battletomes arriving. If there are obvious balance issuen down the road, the PPC will definately adress them

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






FWIW here's my two cents. PPC strives for good balance, but it isn't perfect balance nor will it ever be. Simply speaking there will always be bad lists that bring choices of units that don't work well together, and there will always be scenarios that make some units more useful while putting others on the back foot. When it comes to allegiance abilities and items there definitely is variation in how potent each option can be but that is incredibly dependent on what is in your army and what models they go on. Further, I suspect paying for those options is something the majority of players would rather not bother with even if it does improve balance somewhat, and that forcing points onto those options would make it less appealing to newcomers. Thus, I do not think that PPC will ever point cost those options (unless future releases cause issues) nor do I believe that PPC needs to do so.

In short: while pointing allegiance stuff would improve balance it would ultimately be a minor difference not worth the effort to integrate.

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Hey Attilla, when is the next update coming? I want to get the Beastclaw points in before then.

Also, add this note to the Sylvaneth Wyldwood:

"The Wyldwood received as part of Sylvaneth Allegiance is free, but any additional Wyldwoods (including those summoned during the game) will cost the appropriate number of points."

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Heya,

Came back home yesterday, first day at work today, but got alot of things done for the update. Most calculations and feedback has been gone through so now it's mostly updating the actual lists left. So...should be done wednesday or thursday I reckon!

The Beastclaw units will be up on the blog tomorrow for a final review by the community before we finalize their points in the updated lists.

Will add that to the Sylvaneth army list, cheers!

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

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Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

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The Afro-Stuns strike with Beastclaw battalions!

Jorlbad - 80 pts

Eurlbad - 60 pts

Torrbad* - 60 pts

Skal - 135 pts

Alfrostun - free

Svard Alfrostun - free

Olwyr Alfrostun* - 120

Braggoth's Beast Hammer* - 160 pts


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And thanks to [redacted] I got the rules for...

King Vlagorescu's Ghoulish Host - 100 pts

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/09 01:49:14


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The points for the Beastclaw Raiders have been calculated are can be found on the blog!. If you guys and gals have any thoughts on them, now is the time to let us know because the update will come soon



Thanks for the battalions, Ninth. I'll be sure to add them to the Ogors list!

EDIT: What does the asterisk for the Torrbad and Olwyr Alfrostun mean?

Cheers!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/09 16:38:02


Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

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Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

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Hmm, a bit of sticker shock on the Frostlord prices. What makes them so high?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I am also taking the GHB values into account and matching them if the value is close to what I'd put it at. These battalions are marked with a *.

Just an indicator that the value is the same as that of the GHB. Thought it was something people might want to know, no need to put it in the main documents unless you think it'd be useful.

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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Hmm, a bit of sticker shock on the Frostlord prices. What makes them so high?

Well, high surviveability (halving dmg/-1 to hit), combined with a very high damage output (Stardrake/Gordrakk high!), and the ability to cause mortal wounds .

The Stonehorn variant could even charge 24+ inches in the first turn, and then almost kill another monster in one go (first dishing out D6 mortal wounds and then the high damage in combat). The Stonehorn also grants that ability to all other Stonehorn Beastriders - making an army of extremely resilient, high damage and very, very fast units.

As always though, these primary calculations might well prove wrong over time

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I am also taking the GHB values into account and matching them if the value is close to what I'd put it at. These battalions are marked with a *.


Ah, yeah I read that awhile back, thanks!

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




We are live with the latest update!

PPC is now v2016.08, and has been modified for use alongside the General's Handbook.

Here's a list of changes:
Changes

And here'are the Comp Document and Army Lists:
PPC Comp

Please note that the battleplans and BattleScribe file has not yet been updated - I aim to have them done on the blog this weekend!

Cheers all!

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

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Yay for another update!

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By the way, 'The Host Azyric' battalion, the Garden of More, and one other terrain piece (I think Arcane Ruin? Can't check right now) can have the notes regarding summoning removed due to the new rules overriding them.

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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
By the way, 'The Host Azyric' battalion, the Garden of More, and one other terrain piece (I think Arcane Ruin? Can't check right now) can have the notes regarding summoning removed due to the new rules overriding them.


Allright, thanks. Will take care of that - how about the Summoners Hellgate Summoners Call ability? Don't have the Chaos Dreadhold pack so can't check.

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

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Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Hm, that's different because it lets you bring back a unit that was wiped out (once per hero phase no less). But so as to keep things as true to the scrolls as possible I would say to remove that note and bump the price up to 175.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
 
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