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 master of ordinance wrote:

 Wolfblade wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Wait. So IK get a free pass but Tau deserve a lead pipe to the knee cap?

No, Imperial Knights are just broken and should not be within sniffing distance of a sub Apocalypse game.

Tau currently vomit firepower and Riptides rip just about everything apart. Hell, 50 man blob? Now you see it now you dont.

That's not saying much, a 50 man blob of t3 5+ dies to well, literally everything that has a high RoF.

Leman Russ squadron. Riptide and its gone

Dug in Infantry. Riptide and its gone

Vendetta. Riptide and its... Wait for it.... Gone

I have NO idea what rules you are using for your riptide, but if it's somehow capable of removing leman russ squadrons AT ALL, let alone insantly, its probably not the actual rules.

Ditto for infantry blobs. a riptide, even set up as HBC/SMS simply CANT kill more than 16, under perfect rolls of his side, and fail rolls on your side. (and assuming BS10 ignores cover and this setup against GEQ, he will sill kill only 13.3 on average-hardly the stuff of legends.)

As for vebdetta-if you happen to have a skyfire-oriented riptide, aiming at the rear, yes its pretty much point and click. same as any AA unit.

This is Tau we're talking about. They always have BS10, ignores cover, tank hunter, and nova always works 100% of the time. That and the enemy always deploys in the worst possible way.

That's the only way to really understand a lot of the complaints.

Sometimes it SEEMS like nova works 100% of the time. Basically, if you aren't an elite infantry list or a list dependent on light vehicles, the Tau aren't super scary.

Yeah the Riptide is not really an anti vehicle unit. Now the XV 109 Y'vahrah is which is based on the Riptide chassis.

The Riptide is a weird beast at the moment, really. As it's decribed in the fluff, it essentially a mobile fire base that provides suppressive fire for the mess of Fire Warriors and Kroot advancing around them. Their weapons are potent, but it isn't there the strength of the Riptide lies - It's in the strength of its force shield, and its mobility, which allows it to absorb hits from many angles.

If I were left to change the rules for the Riptide and were allowed to do whatever, I'd change the Armour Value to 3+ (Strong armour in fluff doesn't necessarily mean "Armour"), give it T 7 but remove a Wound. That would make it a bit more spindly, more resistant to what it's supposed to be able to resist (strong hits) and invulnerable against small fire. The 5++ and the rest of the Nova stuff is fine, too.

I do feel the two guns should be worked on. The Heavy Burst Cannon with its S 6 and AP 4 is fine, but I'd give it Pinning, too (being a cover fire weapon and all) - I can live with or without Gets Hot. The Ion Accelerator, tho... The Blast needs to go. It's just that simple, it's not even fluffy. Give it something heavy like S 8 AP 2 (S 9 should be for the Cannon), four shots regularly, and the Overcharge can be Small Blasts instead, but shoot two, with Barrage and Pinning. If the Nova Charge has to be Large Blast, then I can live with it, tho. Just only one shot, please.

Also, remove wargear that gives FNP to anything, really. It's just... No. It's not Tau. It's Chaos, Tyranids, not Tau. Tau gets their people out of a hotzone if something goes wrong, they don't overdrug them with morphine.

Honestly I wish the Kroot had some more units in the new release.

I honestly hate how everything besides base Kroot and one hound is almost worthless.

I want to see Shapers actually worth taking. I wish FW didn't drop their Kroot line, but I know they did because sales were bad. It's not like nobody had an interest in Kroot, it was just the rules were often beyond stupid.

Like a majority T3 6+ MC that dealt wounds to it's own unit.

Honestly I wish the Kroot had some more units in the new release.

I honestly hate how everything besides base Kroot and one hound is almost worthless.

I want to see Shapers actually worth taking. I wish FW didn't drop their Kroot line, but I know they did because sales were bad. It's not like nobody had an interest in Kroot, it was just the rules were often beyond stupid.

Like a majority T3 6+ MC that dealt wounds to it's own unit.

I hope Kroot\all the auxiliaries get their own supplement book. It fits with the format, and means purists like me can just have a Tau codex.

I'd change the Armour Value to 3+ (Strong armour in fluff doesn't necessarily mean "Armour"), give it T 7 but remove a Wound. That would make it a bit more spindly, more resistant to what it's supposed to be able to resist (strong hits) and invulnerable against small fire. The 5++ and the rest of the Nova stuff is fine, too.

So, this would be a massive nerf to the Riptide. You just made it vulnerable to S8 AP3, one of the most common combinations of S and AP in the game. Being wounded on a 3+, but only a 5+ save, and one less wound. They would be unplayably bad without some other compensatory buff.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

I do feel the two guns should be worked on. The Heavy Burst Cannon with its S 6 and AP 4 is fine, but I'd give it Pinning, too (being a cover fire weapon and all) - I can live with or without Gets Hot. The Ion Accelerator, tho... The Blast needs to go. It's just that simple, it's not even fluffy. Give it something heavy like S 8 AP 2 (S 9 should be for the Cannon), four shots regularly, and the Overcharge can be Small Blasts instead, but shoot two, with Barrage and Pinning. If the Nova Charge has to be Large Blast, then I can live with it, tho. Just only one shot, please.

Except pinning is pretty worthless of a ability . Its useless on over 1/2 the armies played.
Also all ion weapons can be blasts so i dunno what you mean its not fluffy . Ion rifle , quad ion turret and ion cannon . Gets hot needs to go on the HBC or just 1 roll of it , I wouldn't and don't use the HBC nova charge because of that.

Something that came to me in a fever dream recently was the idea of melee drones.

Think of it this way, the Tau probably need to clear cut jungle and forest at times, so they probably have some kind of drone like thing to do it in an automated fashion with some kind of saw mechanism. Now clearly Tau isn't supposed to be great at close combat, and I don't think these drones should either, but here's where the mad genius of the Fire Cast comes in, and when the drones die they explode in bits of whirling saw parts and shrapnel creating a sort of fletching weapon. Yup, they're just units that bog down an enemy and aren't so much used to kill them directly in combat as they are to die and explode while taking out some models.

One way to make that work is having drones with flachette dischargers and basic drone stat lines. Giving each drone a chance to deal a S4 hit to each model in base contact before combat starts.

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Also, remove wargear that gives FNP to anything, really. It's just... No. It's not Tau. It's Chaos, Tyranids, not Tau. Tau gets their people out of a hotzone if something goes wrong, they don't overdrug them with morphine.

You aren't really into Tau fluff, are you? In one of the novels, Shadowsun herself spends days tripping on various drugs (including the Emperor's tears LOL) and it is heavily implied that such thing is pretty normal in the Fire Caste. If anything, the stimulant injector should be reworked to have a similar effect than the combat drugs from the Dark Eldar codex.

On the topic of Tau and FNP, I don't think it's above the Tau to drug their soldiers in order to achieve their goals. The Tau seem like a group that can easily view things in the form of "the ends justify the means" and while they'd prefer to pull their troops out given the chance, they also understand that sometimes extremes have to be taken in order to achieve their goals.

Basically they're not perfect, just advanced, sort of like the Protoss from Starcraft who are completely susceptible to going to awful extremes doing something they believe is right.

Just look at Commander Farsight, his greater good diverged from that of the general Tau force and so her broke off in his own little way, but isn't corrupt or evil as far as I can tell. Heck, even part of Shadowsun's fluff is that An'vu views her as too much of an indoctrinated pawn to ever rebel against whatever he's doing. It would actually be kind of interesting to see her get some fluff in the way of realising that.

I get that Tau do use combat drugs, but FNP? So they have the same kind of ability to shrug off hits in the same manner as Plague Marines and Necrons? It doesn't really make that kind of sense...

But it's ok that most, if not all codeci in the game has, or can get FNP, but not Tau. Because, 'reasons'...?

There plenty of fluff verifiable reasons for the Tau to be able to have that rule on the few units that can get it.

Tau are not wussies. They just don't prefer to fight in melee. Also the chips that burn out brains when removed so they can be used elsewhere? Yeah I could totally see the Tau using stim injectors with long term consequences for their pilots. Maybe not short or mid though.

And tau will willingly sacrifice their lives and wellbeing if it's for the greater good. Those of us who played their second codex might remember a little something called the fail safe detonator.

Still exists, just utterly useless so everyone forgets about it.

Why don't they put the damn thing on drones is beyond me, but alas.

Oh, I thought they removed it.
No surprise I forgot though, it really isn't worth it, it does nowhere near enough damage to be worth it.

I'd have no problem with Tau getting a source of FNP. They are T3 after all.

Martel732 wrote:
I'd have no problem with Tau getting a source of FNP. They are T3 after all.

What! A post where Martel732 doesn't complain about Blood Angels and actually puts forth something reasonable? Impossible!

 Gamgee wrote:
Tau are not wussies. They just don't prefer to fight in melee. Also the chips that burn out brains when removed so they can be used elsewhere? Yeah I could totally see the Tau using stim injectors with long term consequences for their pilots. Maybe not short or mid though.

Yeah, there's a lot of that in the new codex it seems. The energy source for the new ion rifle that pathfinders got slowly kills the wielder, apparently. And obviously there's the riptide whose experimental reactor can kill the pilot.

But the idea of Tau using stims that make the user more resilient to pain? No, that's crazy, Tau would never do that. Meanwhile Marines can get FNP and become just as resilient as Necrons or Plague Marines just by being really angry and that somehow makes more sense.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I'd have no problem with Tau getting a source of FNP. They are T3 after all.

What! A post where Martel732 doesn't complain about Blood Angels and actually puts forth something reasonable? Impossible!

I actually had a long series of posts about the Hammerhead in some thread somewhere.

Most of what i want for the new dex wont happen because its not a 150 dollar single model kits.


- Kroot HQ
- Plastic Knarloc riders with rules that dont suck
- Plastic Tetras ( not really a detailed kit and FW has turned over other kits from the line to GW prime before)
- A cheaper transport that holds 6 infantry based on a piranha chassis.


strictly rules stuff
- move drones to troops, but do not give them ob sec.
- give drones something like fearless, low level AI maybe auto run if there is 1 member standing.
- give kroot pistols, i will even take a gakky 8 inch range pistol but come on.
- give the option back to tau tanks to upgrade to fast skimmer. all those fancy turrets FW made for Taros became turds when that wargear got removed.
- crisis suits are relentless but broadsides are not? maybe fix that.


I'm honestly worried that if the rumored new crisis suit kit is true 1) I hope its not hideous 2) hope it doesnt add a $10 price point per suit.

Actually, here's a thought, I hate the Hammer Head, despite it being a cool model. It just feels like most of the time it just does nothing, and I've seen it so many video battle reps that it's painful.

Here's my stupid thought of the moment, make the two drones able to be heavy rail rifles, then they can at least get three super strong shots at a long range as opposed to one. I mean I might be wrong, but it would be nice to see the Hammer Head not just have four shots a game :/.

Also, I started to paint my Tau and I'd love to get some criticism, plox: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/662024.page

The hammerhead is a consensus.
We ALL love the model, and we all agree its practically useless with its rules.

All the rail weapons need some major help.

 Gamgee wrote:
All the rail weapons need some major help.

Second that - I think D is the most likely.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
All the rail weapons need some major help.

Second that - I think D is the most likely.

I'd personally like to see a special rule that makes rail weapons unique as opposed to simply making any of them D weapons. I've always liked the idea that rail weapons have the chance to hit everything in a line from the shooter to the maximum range of the weapon. Maybe reducing S and AP as it hit different targets along the way.

The Hammerhead main weapon should certainly be strength D for the initial target, given that the guns on the Wraithguard are D.

I would be fine with HH rail guns being strength D if the point cost went up. I don't like the easy access of ranged D weapons in any of the lists, and since I'd like to see vechilces come in squads for Tau, I don't want 9 strength D shots to become the new norm and something else for people to whine about when they see Tau on the table.