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Made in gb
Dusty Skeleton




Ok, dreaded 13th says loose 4d6 models from the unit.

Now, if that roll comes up as, say, 5 - and there are still some left in the unit, do they stay standing?
i.e does the unit only mutate into clan rate IF the 4d6 roll is greater than the no of guys in the unit?

Also, if no armour saves of any kind are allowed, can a unit take the wounds and then try to regen them afterward?
The rules lawyer in me says yes, since the regen is not an armour save and the text doesn't say no regen allowed.
However, the fluff in me says the power of the horned rat rules, so regen would be cheesy.

 
   
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Made in de
Fixture of Dakka





Uhm, the spell specifically states what happens if there are more models than you rolled for...it doesn't say "no armor saves" either, it says that no saves of any kind are allowed.

The spell's ruling is pretty clear in the book...if you don't roll high enough, you just cause n unsaveable wounds, no clan rats are created.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Thats a very interesting point the OP has made about regen.
Regen is not a save and you have to die or take a wound before you can actually use it so therefore it would suggest that you can indeed use Regen.
I also dont think its cheesy. You have made a very good point.
   
Made in us
Crafty Clanrat



san diego

you don't use regen. regen can only be taken against wounds and the dreaded 13th does not cause wounds.

for 40k

skaven for fantasy. for the under empire! daemons as well.

for infinity 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Island of Nunya, Nunya business!

GBDarkAngel wrote:
Thats a very interesting point the OP has made about regen.
Regen is not a save and you have to die or take a wound before you can actually use it so therefore it would suggest that you can indeed use Regen.
I also dont think its cheesy. You have made a very good point.


Regen is most definitly a save.

P74: "A model with the Regeneration special rule is permitted to make a special regenerate saving throw... To take a regeneration save, roll a D6."

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

(\__/)
(='.'=)
('')_('') This is Bunny________ This is bunny after a Thunderstomp
 Arcsquad12 wrote:
a Burrito is not an orgy.

Founder of the GFMGL society(Gamers for Marines Getting Laid), donate now and help all marines enjoy an active sex life. We also provide a comprehensive dating service for any loyal servent of the God Emperor, browse our photo collection. Lonely Marines, desperate Sisters, and Guardsmen and Guardswomen that are just looking for companionship.

Yes, I play GKs. "Cheese" you say? Take a look at this Terminator, notice he's pewter. Now notice the weight as I termi-sock you. *WACK* NOW!!! I been Playing GKs since their Force Weapons bypassed EW, everyone was WS5, Stormshields ONLY worked in CC, and Justicars cost 50 fricking points each!!! Don't you accuse me of Cheese! I waited for this Cheese and if i am not going to use it against you. Why I aught to shove it in the heater grates and turn the Thermostat up to 70 degrees. CELSIUS! TAKE THAT

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Space Wolf army.  
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




The lack of reading really astounds me sometimes.
   
Made in gb
Dusty Skeleton




Meh ok.

I just came accross the wording in the liazardman book of no amour, ward or regen save allowed.
whereas the 13th just says no saves of any kind allowed.
so maybe regen is a kind of save as stated above.. that would work.


 
   
Made in nl
Existencial Exalted Sorcerer of Chaos






Nilfgaard, Dancing on the Barrows of my enemies.

The Dreaded 13 doesn't cause wounds, it removes models.

"By order of the Emperor of Nilfgaard, for the murder of the wounded, looting, cannibalism, you are hereby sentenced to death by hanging."

Muh Plog: Iron Warriors, Warriors of Chaos, Vampire Counts, and sometimes more!


Faith in Dakka: torn into tiny pieces and spread across the globe in shells of hatred. 
   
Made in gb
Booming Thunderer







No saves allowed means exactly that, NO SAVES, regeneration is a save.

In regards to the OP, I have been on the receiving end of this spell many times. Roll 4d6, if you roll less than the number of models in the unit then that many die, if you roll equal to or more than the number of models left in the unit (eg if there are 12 guys and you roll 12+ on your 4d6) then they are all turned into clanrats. Simple. No saves and doesn't matter how many wounds you have.

Also slightly off topic but it's important to note the distinction between 'causes a wound' and 'removes a model as a casualty', the D13th is the latter and most of the time these spells do not allow any saves, the former will usually still allow some kinds of save eg magic resistance
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Island of Nunya, Nunya business!

And just to make sure, you are only casting this spell on Infantry right?

It doesn't work on any other unit type, including Monstrous Infantry.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

(\__/)
(='.'=)
('')_('') This is Bunny________ This is bunny after a Thunderstomp
 Arcsquad12 wrote:
a Burrito is not an orgy.

Founder of the GFMGL society(Gamers for Marines Getting Laid), donate now and help all marines enjoy an active sex life. We also provide a comprehensive dating service for any loyal servent of the God Emperor, browse our photo collection. Lonely Marines, desperate Sisters, and Guardsmen and Guardswomen that are just looking for companionship.

Yes, I play GKs. "Cheese" you say? Take a look at this Terminator, notice he's pewter. Now notice the weight as I termi-sock you. *WACK* NOW!!! I been Playing GKs since their Force Weapons bypassed EW, everyone was WS5, Stormshields ONLY worked in CC, and Justicars cost 50 fricking points each!!! Don't you accuse me of Cheese! I waited for this Cheese and if i am not going to use it against you. Why I aught to shove it in the heater grates and turn the Thermostat up to 70 degrees. CELSIUS! TAKE THAT

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Space Wolf army.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Regen/Ward/Armor can only be applied to wounds. Dread does no wounds. If an infantry unit has 2389423892358923 wounds and is hit, it won't matter. If they have 1 wound it will do the same.

RAW it says infantry. Infantry is a unit type. Which isn't MI. I don't see it working on anything other than pure infantry.

   
Made in gb
Dusty Skeleton




Thanks for you comments, has helped me see it all a bit more clearly.
Means the grey seer just went to #1 on my kill list.

 
   
 
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