Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

HQ
Trazyn
Anrakyr

5 Lords MSS Weave Scythe 2 Shifters 1 Orb
Chronotek Timesplinter Cloak
2 Stormteks

5 Lords MSS Weave Scythe 2 Shifters 1 Orb
Chronotek Timesplinter Cloak
2 Stormteks

TROOPS
5 Warriors
Night Scythe

5 Warriors
Night Scythe

Stormteks go with warriors for obvious reasons. Anrakyr takes one squad of lords and trazyn takes the other. I took trazyn because I am very light on scoring units and he can score, he also adds one more mindshackle to the unit making them that much more damaging and on top of that he is almost impossible to kill, plus i feel he is one of the few good things that came out of the matt ward lore. Anrakyr was taken because the idea of 19 strength 8 warscythe attacks sounds dreadful. The squads of lords have 2 shifters so they don't die in droves to plasma I know they are expensive but it is needed to make sure they survive to deliver their payload. The chronoteks are there for the amazinf rerolls to help me move up the board and make saves/rp, the cloak is there for another invul to shrug off a bit of plasma fire. Stormteks are for the needed AT so my lords aren't dropping like flies to demolisher cannons and the like.

So tell me how you think this would fair in a competitive environment ( this list was built with my meta in mind I.e. no tau eldar BA or DA that play competitively)

List is woeful in scoring unit, 2x5 nw in ns is just too little. Deathstars are very durable but I think too slow, if I play against you I would just focus on your troops and then take objectives. I think there are better choices than

I tried list like this (in my opinion it might be semi-competetive)

Nemessor Zandrekh
Vargard Obyron
Destroyer Lord MSS SW
Lord #1 WS SW MSS
Lord #2 Gauntlet SW MSS
Lord #3 WS SW Shifter
Lord #4 Hyperphase sword Shifter
Lord #5 Gauntlet SW
Harbinger of Eternity Chronometron
Harbinger of Destruction Pulse, Gaze of flame
Harbinger of Storm
Cryptek

4x5 NW + NS

3 Tomb blade

Bastion + comms relay


I think my choice of special characters is better beacause you can fly nemessor in NS move 36" and disembark in 6" and then deep strike whole deathstar 6" near the Nemessor without scatter. Adaptive tactics provide lot of strategic options, pulse is for securing our flyers. Comms relay helps us perform massed strike in second turn, flyers shoot, deathstar deep strike in front of enemy. After some time it can split up in order to reach more enemies since you have a lot of special characters.

I have also version with 2x5 Wraiths in it, without d.lord and without some wargear and smaller court. It provides more targets for enemy.

Thanks but no thanks your list doesn't really help me all it tells me is that "your list is bad use this one instead"

I like the idea of zandy and obyron but it is too expensive of a combo that doesn't always pay off and can be abused by simply charging zandy and pulling obyron out of wherever he was about to do damage unless you keep zandy close to the action near obyron (which i tend to do anyway so you can ignore my little rant)

If I were to field that combo the list would look something like this

HQ
Trazyn
Zandy
Obyron

5 Lords MSS Weave Scythe 2 Shifters 1 Orb
Chronotek

5 Lords MSS Weave Scythe 1 Shifter (Zandy fills in for lost upgrades)
Chronotek

TROOPS
5 Warriors
Night Scythe

5 Warriors
Night Scythe

Again, light on troops but makes one of the courts more mobile and more killy. Trazyn provides delicious MSS and precious scoring along with CC effectiveness. Warriors can hide in NS for the entire game till its time to cap objectives and if the NS gets downed they can simply walk on a different turn and make a brake for los blocking terrain or objectives. Zandy provides orb and a homing beacon for obyron to teleport into critical areas. I have playtested this list about 4 times (won with all of them so far) and have found this combo of hqs works best so far but I have yet to try out anrakyr and am eager to test it out (so far they have all been objective games). I often find this list forcing the enemy to leave a good portion of the board empty leaving it open for my wariors to drop down and hold it while my courts usually end up tying up or killing the majority of their army, or the courts get into their backlines and begin to sweep their army ending up in a table/near table.

Frankly both of your proposed lists would be god-awful in an even semi-competitive environment. 2 5-man troop units is just not enough. Plain and simple, you can have the best deathstar in the world (the one you have listed i would rank as ok to moderately good) but with only 2 troops in flyers in an environment where lists come standard with as much AA as people can shove into them, you'll lose. Hell turkeys, Guard airforce, devestators with flakk launchers, etc.

By making a list so scarce in viable objectives grabbers and making the ones you do have rather flimsy, the list screams "i want to lose to anyone with even a hint of competitiveness in their list"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
TLDR: more troops

androcles138 wrote:
Frankly both of your proposed lists would be god-awful in an even semi-competitive environment. 2 5-man troop units is just not enough. Plain and simple, you can have the best deathstar in the world (the one you have listed i would rank as ok to moderately good) but with only 2 troops in flyers in an environment where lists come standard with as much AA as people can shove into them, you'll lose. Hell turkeys, Guard airforce, devestators with flakk launchers, etc.

By making a list so scarce in viable objectives grabbers and making the ones you do have rather flimsy, the list screams "i want to lose to anyone with even a hint of competitiveness in their list"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
TLDR: more troops

Yes i know i need more scoring in this list what would you suggest i swap for one? i tossed in trazyn because he provides me with a court and is scoring. My goal with this list is to keep both courts and kep them as strong as possible while still staying at least semi competitive. Also i lpayed this with some people that often play in tourneys and do pretty well in them, i have won all of them, the game types were big guns emprahs will relic and scouring. i simply hid my warriors till late. at the earliest they come on turn three if the NS blows up, otherwise i drop them on turn 4.
when i faced orks i had them go first so i could take out their dakka jets before they could take me down, (this was the big guns game). and his biker nobz killed themselves to MSS securing me the win, i played emprahs against some SW, he brought 4 rune priests but made the mistake of deploying them all with one of his longfang squads in the corner so i was easily able to avoid them and his GH quickly fell to my courts as he deployed them and all their rhinos in the middle, his one major threat was his vindicator which i made short work of with a NS to his side armor, once i got trazyn into his backfield he capped me the objetive and my courts easily picked off his troops. the relic was against a vet SM player that just got back in after getting off it around the start of 5th ed so i didnt blame him for not remembering to take as much ap 2 as he should have and that was his downfall. My most recent playtest was the scouring but it was at 2k so isnt as important as the rest and was against guard, i took a sccarab farm and they quickly ate up his chimeras and my courts sweeped through his vets, my courts and scarabs drew alot of attention and he didnt have time to focus much power to my troops and i ultimately won because of that.

I feel that the list could definitley be improved by the addition of more scoring, but i just dont know what to toss in, and what to swap, while still keeping 2 strong and efficient courts. i found that through my games that Trazyn has really been my saving grace and i dont feel that a list should be so dependant on one model but his scoring, survivability and combat effectiveness just makes my army so much better.

 A GumyBear wrote:
Thanks but no thanks your list doesn't really help me all it tells me is that "your list is bad use this one instead"

I like the idea of zandy and obyron but it is too expensive of a combo that doesn't always pay off and can be abused by simply charging zandy and pulling obyron out of wherever he was about to do damage unless you keep zandy close to the action near obyron (which i tend to do anyway so you can ignore my little rant)

If I were to field that combo the list would look something like this

HQ
Trazyn
Zandy
Obyron

5 Lords MSS Weave Scythe 2 Shifters 1 Orb
Chronotek

5 Lords MSS Weave Scythe 1 Shifter (Zandy fills in for lost upgrades)
Chronotek

TROOPS
5 Warriors
Night Scythe

5 Warriors
Night Scythe

Again, light on troops but makes one of the courts more mobile and more killy. Trazyn provides delicious MSS and precious scoring along with CC effectiveness. Warriors can hide in NS for the entire game till its time to cap objectives and if the NS gets downed they can simply walk on a different turn and make a brake for los blocking terrain or objectives. Zandy provides orb and a homing beacon for obyron to teleport into critical areas. I have playtested this list about 4 times (won with all of them so far) and have found this combo of hqs works best so far but I have yet to try out anrakyr and am eager to test it out (so far they have all been objective games). I often find this list forcing the enemy to leave a good portion of the board empty leaving it open for my wariors to drop down and hold it while my courts usually end up tying up or killing the majority of their army, or the courts get into their backlines and begin to sweep their army ending up in a table/near table.

I didnt mean to insult you, I just wanted to show my solution. I just think that you really need at least 4 NS here, yes you own trazyn which scores (very good idea im thinking of trying that), but 2 NS with warriors gonna die very quickly, and you wouldnt be able to keep them alive (i know that they gonna be in reserve and when arrive they will hide behind some los blocker). Why 4 NS? You have to have way to deal with Drakes (theyre decent threat i think with their flamer they can use wound allocation in order to avoid Phase Shifter and cause you too much wounds, Flying daemon circus (to ground them and then kill with your deathstar), Flying tyrrants, very mobile scoring unit in flyers (when playing mirror, other necron gonna shot down your ns with 3 barges and his 3 scythes and then just take more objectives then you and win, maybe IG). In your list maybe try to reduce court (its already murderous and tough as nails) and try to fit another NS. Zandy and Obyron act very well, and provide you mobility, otherwise you gonna walk through board and do nothing, BA razor-pred spam or Dark Eldar Venom spam gonna just run away and laught at your lack of mobility. Maybe you can also try despairtek to add mobility for second squad (its quite secure cause you can re-roll one dice from deep strike), but dont know what should be ditched here

And one more enemy cant assault Zandrekh and pull out Obyron from deathstar, you arrive with Night Scythe disembark Zandrekh and in the same turn you deep strike deathstar and you have your characters in one squad in front of enemy.

Ps and dont forget takin personal traits on your warlord, with FNP your deathstar is truly immortal, personal traits also provide a lot of other useful stuff. Another scoring, furious charge or 1 vp for each slain enemy character.

I'm thinking that 3 NS would be enough to stay competitive and 4 would be optimal I will try to work some points around to at least get one. I'm not too worried about heldrakes since they are only ap3 and they all have 2+ I have never faced one before are their vector strikes ap2? Against flyrants its really just about whether he is smart enough to stay in the air and not assault me, if he is smart enough then I will need to shoot them asap to ground them. I am more familiar against the daemons fmc spam and if I do see it my only hope is to deny jis scoring before he can deny mine, I love the personal table they have so many useful traits for this army I usually run trazyn as my warlord because of his survivability but if I get scoring on the table then that is a huge waste of precious scoring when I could have made zandy my warlord and give each court the ability to score

Who should be my warlord with this list? Do I risk losing precoous scoring or do I not bother and just shoot for the fnp with trazyn

 A GumyBear wrote:
I'm thinking that 3 NS would be enough to stay competitive and 4 would be optimal I will try to work some points around to at least get one. I'm not too worried about heldrakes since they are only ap3 and they all have 2+ I have never faced one before are their vector strikes ap2? Against flyrants its really just about whether he is smart enough to stay in the air and not assault me, if he is smart enough then I will need to shoot them asap to ground them. I am more familiar against the daemons fmc spam and if I do see it my only hope is to deny jis scoring before he can deny mine, I love the personal table they have so many useful traits for this army I usually run trazyn as my warlord because of his survivability but if I get scoring on the table then that is a huge waste of precious scoring when I could have made zandy my warlord and give each court the ability to score

Who should be my warlord with this list? Do I risk losing precoous scoring or do I not bother and just shoot for the fnp with trazyn

What a mistake, played against drakes so many times and forgot that theyre ap3 as well as vector strike, sorry for that, such a befuddlement. I doubt that anybody will be stupid enogh to charge you with flyrant, I would like to say that its not so easy to ground them with only 2 scythes, which can be destroyed easliy by flyrants, thats why I think you need some additional AA to ground beasts like them. Against daemons you have to kill his troops but sadly you gonna lose yours as well. Daemon player can try to focus with his fmc on scythes and then kill warriors going out of reserve, fmc is quite fast and nasty as you know. There is huge probability of draw.

I do wonder if this army can fight against new tau. Farsight Bomb gonna kill it very quickly, double Iontide with a lot of FW probably will kill it easily too. Also Dark Eldar venom spam is dangerous since we are slow, and theyre very mobile and very heavy antinfantry shooting. BA raz-pred spam is also dangerous theyre very mobile with all their razorbacks and MSU combined with huge amount of HB, plasmas and other stuff.

I think you dont have to equip every lord with MSS WS, some of them gonna die anyway and you can use one naked with PS or lord with SW only as wound catchers, I played many time this kind of list for fun with fully equipped lords and it was point waste. I think zandrekh is nice warlord, as you already said its shame to wast possibility of second scoring unit with trazyn being warlord.

My first attempt to build this list with double court:

Zandrekh
Obyron
Rc1
Lord SW WS
Lord SW WS MSS
Lord SW
Lord Sword, Shifter
Chronometrontek

Trazyn
Rc2
3xLord Sw Ws
Lord Sword, Shifter
Chronometrontek
Veiltek

4x5 NW + NS

I have some spare points and I would like to fit here another Shifter, since plasmas gonna kill the list. Also Zandrekh+Obyron deep strike combo works better when NS with Zandrekh can re-roll failed reserve roll to ensure they gonna arrive in turn 2.

My other idea is to run single court with wraith squad in deep strike.

Obyron
Trazyn
Zandreh
Lord WS SW
Lord WS SW PS
Lord WS SW PS
Chronotek
Solartek / another Lord with SW (solartek in order to provide night fight for our flyers and boost their survivability)

6 Wraiths 1 Whip Coil

4x5 NW + NS

Bastion + Comms relay

The first list seems to be just what I am looking for, I will have to playtest it this weekend and see how it goes

First list aint completed I didnt have enought time yesterday, there are some spare points. I think Night Scythe can be ditched if you wish to and either you can add phase shifter in order to enhance squad without Zandrekh and tomb blades (for fast, low-priority for enemy denying unit, which can try to ground fmc), or Bastion with Comms Relay (in order to manipulate reserves) it provide some shooting (hb) and also is reliable security for warriors as backfield objective holders.

Please write how it works after playtests

 SwistakCZC wrote:
First list aint completed I didnt have enought time yesterday, there are some spare points. I think Night Scythe can be ditched if you wish to and either you can add phase shifter in order to enhance squad without Zandrekh and tomb blades (for fast, low-priority for enemy denying unit, which can try to ground fmc), or Bastion with Comms Relay (in order to manipulate reserves) it provide some shooting (hb) and also is reliable security for warriors as backfield objective holders.

Please write how it works after playtests

Will do

Frankly, one RCDI tends to be enough, but if you're set on using two, I would recommend having the second one be a shooty court.
Reason being, if you're going to deep strike these guys, they're just going to sit there for a turn and get shot at.
If the choppy Court drops in, and then the shoot court drops in between the choppy court and the target enemy unit, it will accomplish two things:
- let you blast away with a ton of 12" AP3 Staff of Light shots.
- if the shooty unit gets engaged by the enemy in your opponent's assault phase, they'll act as an anvil for the choppy unit.

But yeah, I would also advocate including a small unit of Tomb Blades for objective contestment later in the game.

 skoffs wrote:
Frankly, one RCDI tends to be enough, but if you're set on using two, I would recommend having the second one be a shooty court.
Reason being, if you're going to deep strike these guys, they're just going to sit there for a turn and get shot at.
If the choppy Court drops in, and then the shoot court drops in between the choppy court and the target enemy unit, it will accomplish two things:
- let you blast away with a ton of 12" AP3 Staff of Light shots.
- if the shooty unit gets engaged by the enemy in your opponent's assault phase, they'll act as an anvil for the choppy unit.

But yeah, I would also advocate including a small unit of Tomb Blades for objective contestment later in the game.

The shooty court is a good idea I think it could work great with zandy since he also has a staff of light and if they assault the shooty court then the choppy court would jump I'm as well thanks to obyron

skoffs 528452 5650899 8b12c13a8e9c3c846af5a6f5f4e8719d.jpg
wrote:Frankly, one RCDI tends to be enough, but if you're set on using two, I would recommend having the second one be a shooty court.
Reason being, if you're going to deep strike these guys, they're just going to sit there for a turn and get shot at.
If the choppy Court drops in, and then the shoot court drops in between the choppy court and the target enemy unit, it will accomplish two things:
- let you blast away with a ton of 12" AP3 Staff of Light shots.
- if the shooty unit gets engaged by the enemy in your opponent's assault phase, they'll act as an anvil for the choppy unit.

But yeah, I would also advocate including a small unit of Tomb Blades for objective contestment later in the game.

Shooty court is interesting idea but im not sure od worth it. I think double cc court with ns fire support can do well. Youre right it gonna be shot very intensively but on the other hand its tough enough to outlive enemy shooting and then make lot of damage. I played it and know it can survive a lot, many players suprisingly understimate this number of t5 2+/3+ wounds with one re-roll per turn and 4+ rp. Maybe stormscythe or deathscythes would fit here better. I also think i could ditch trazyn from sesond list and fit sesond 5 wraiths squad. In second turn enemy get 3units deepstriked wraiths and precisely deepstriked court. Dont using trazyn cause already have 4 troops.