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I don't know how many of you haveplayed/ do play the LOTR SBG, but for those who do, how many have every played the "batttle companies" expansion version. Basically, in it you start out with a standard company of warriors who, as they get kills, can become heroes, and heroes who earn experience can be upgraded and you can buy armor/ect for each model as well... It is almost like an RPG game where you have your party and level them up, and the stats carry over between games...

anyway, the reason I mention this is that I have lately thought that using the WHFB skirmish rules, it would be very cool to do the same thing with Fantasy. What do ya thinK?

I had a game today with somebody in fantasy where only one of his warriors of chaos lived out of all of them (i had faced him with warriors of chaos). The chariots, daemon prince and heroes lived but i have to imagine the remaining dude probably became a hero. If nothing else it'd be cool to convert the model further to represent how awesome they were in the fight or make the unit look like it survived a good scrap or held it off with the broken bodies of enemies around them and some battle scars and blood from their visible wounds.

That said that game my warpfire throwers probably burnt more warriors of chaos than they have ever previously of anything in the history of ever. I had at least 4 or 5 warpfire thrower template hits and scored quite a few wounds. I mean from pretty much just shooting including the doom rocket, 2 warpfire throwers and warp lightning cannons i managed to kill 17 warriors of chaos in one turn (it was the 'meeting engagement' mission type). A friend said i should paint up my warpfire throwers just for the occasion. Perhaps i should litter the burning bodies of screaming crazed mark of khorne warriors of chaos along them. Wouldn't be easy to do though and would cost a bit. Perhaps some burning warriors of chaos helmets if the guys has any spares. That'd look kind of cool actually..

YEah, that would be pretty cool

The game is set up that certain units are supposed to die. They would then never become heroes. Think of it like chess. It doesn't matter how you win, you're making sacrifice trades all the time, the point is to hopefully make better trades than your opponent.

But I'm all for expanded escalation-type rules. It could be more simple in that you only have, say 10% max you can put into any one Special unit (or the minimum unit size). As you do better/win/whatever, you can put more points into them.

I don't like units getting better because you're breaking the balance that surrounds them. Like if TK skeletons gained 1S that would be a massive difference than if Ogre Bulls gained 1S. I think you need to keep the same point framework and/or special/rare combos and use that. Like you can only have 1 of a Special and have to work your way to 2 then 3.

I played an old computer game called World of Wonders (I think) and you could make units elite or super elite based on their success. And I remember I had a leprechaun unit who had the WHFB of like 10T and the he became super elite. And basically that one guy could just walk through infinite enemies because nothing could hurt him. It was a unit they never thought about becoming super elite and didn't balance for it.

Yeah, that could be pretty easily fixed by making "stat-caps" for each race... say a elf can have max S 5.... but an Ogre can have up to S10 or something to that effect. I would probably use the Skirmish rules for this as well opposed to the full on WHFB.... though maybe have some games with full on formations and allow the Skirmish Character(s) to be heros/Lords/champions....

6th edition campaign unit/hero advancement adapted to 8th edition.

1) Units that are fielded with full command can become more elite.
2) A unit that is elite must be fielded as the same size or smaller.
3) Standard bearers may only be purchased for units after they become elite.

Units that survive a battle above half starting strength (ie 13 wounds remaining at of a 25 man unit), takes a leadership test on their own leadership. If passed, they become more elite.

The first time a unit passes the battle experience test, field it with 1 standard. The second time, field it with two. The third time, field it with 3 standard.
Note: You can only have a single triple elite unit in an army. If you get another one, you must downgrade one if you want to upgrade another.

Elite1: "Veteran" +1 combat res, additional to the +1 for having a standard.
Elite2: "Expert" Once per players turn, you may re-roll ALL dice to hit, All dice to wound, or All dice to save. That's successes and Failures.
Elite3(1 per army): "Battle Scarred" Unit gains +1 WS, BS, Init, and Ld. Infantry/Monstrous Infantry gain +1 Armor save, Cav/monstrous Cav gain Ambush.

If an elite unit loses it's standard in combat, it loses it's elite bonuses for the rest of the game. Remove ALL standards when the unit breaks. (so elite 3 takes 3 loses for breaking).
If an Elite unit is wiped out, it loses an elite level.


Characters can advance as well.
If a character kills another character or champion (does not have to be in a challenge, but running down doesn't count), or if he is the surviving general, or if he survives a miscast (learn the hard way), he may take a Ld test at the end of the game to become Heroic.
If a character gains Heroics, his gear may not be changed, nor may his lores (though he still generates spells each battle). If he is not fielded as is, his abilities lost. If he sits out a game, he loses a heroic level.
Regardless of how many times in one game you qualify to test for Heroics, you may only test 1 time per game, and you must be alive and still on the table at the end of the game.
If you win the game, you test at +1 leadership. If you lose the game, you test at -1 leadership.

Heroic 1) Once per phase, re-roll ALL dice to hit, wound, save, cast, or dispel. ALL dice, both success and failures.
Heroic 2) +1 WS/BS, +1 to channel.
Heroic 3) Command, increase inspiring presence by 6", or gain a 6" inspiring presence if not the general. If BSB, increase re-roll radius by 6". If vampire General, increase march radius by 6". If daemonic, choose 1 additional god to be able to use your leadership/re-rolls.
Heroic 4) +1 Wound, or 1 Toughness, or +1 to cast/dispel
Heroic 5) Immune to Killing blow. Heroic Strikes; trade all combat special effects for Heroic Killing blow (no ASF, Red Fury, Hate, Armor Pierce, or magic weapon effects)

If a characters is taken below half wounds, he loses 1 Heroic level. Additionally, ff a characters is taken out of the game he must take a leadership test on his own leadership or lose all Heroic levels. This is at Ld+1 for winning, Ld-1 for losing.

It's a bit of book keeping, but can make for a fun campaign.
Initially, people went for Death Stars, but in the end they found running more units; so some survive, was the better path.

Having Standards represent Elite levels really makes it easy during the game. Kind of makes sense too. The standard of the Dung-Hole Diggers of Waaaagh Grotzbad is largely ignored for several battles, as the gits repeatedly break and run. But after getting a lucky charge in on the flank, and surviving to loot and spread rumors, they have new found confidence and respect.