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So... a lot of Eldar things rely on cover saves and Jink saves. Is there a way, outside of deep striking right into the middle of them, to really disrupt this advantage? It counters Rangers, Pathfinders, ADL, Turboboosting, etc.

Thoughts?

Kill the markerlights.

I have a friend who uses his Commander w/ Drone Controller in a Marker Drone squad as a BS5 slave.

My idea to countering the ever-ubiquitous Markerlights have led me to Swooping Hawks.

I'm planning to run:

Swooping Hawks Squad - 121pts.
w/ 6 x Members, Exarch; Sunrifle.

Start them on the board turn one, then Skyleap them. Turn 2 they can come down and not scatter, so I'll position them behind the Marker Drone squad and drop the Large Blast on them. Because his Commander will be the furthest away his 4+ save Marker Drones will have to take the wounds first and should be able to cripple the squad - especially when factoring in potential Doom.

I should hopefully then be able to hit any Pathfinders in the vicinity with the Hawks and also cripple that squad - effectively ending 2/3 of his Markerlight support with one unit of Hawks.

This is all theoretical though and I haven't put it into practice, but I hope this helps.

Iranna.

 Iranna wrote:
I have a friend who uses his Commander w/ Drone Controller in a Marker Drone squad as a BS5 slave.

My idea to countering the ever-ubiquitous Markerlights have led me to Swooping Hawks.

I'm planning to run:

Swooping Hawks Squad - 121pts.
w/ 6 x Members, Exarch; Sunrifle.

Start them on the board turn one, then Skyleap them. Turn 2 they can come down and not scatter, so I'll position them behind the Marker Drone squad and drop the Large Blast on them. Because his Commander will be the furthest away his 4+ save Marker Drones will have to take the wounds first and should be able to cripple the squad - especially when factoring in potential Doom.

I should hopefully then be able to hit any Pathfinders in the vicinity with the Hawks and also cripple that squad - effectively ending 2/3 of his Markerlight support with one unit of Hawks.

This is all theoretical though and I haven't put it into practice, but I hope this helps.

Iranna.

Is the grenades from the Swooping Hawks dropped before or after they come in? If its after they come in any Riptide with and Ion Accelerator and EWO or Missilesides are goin to tear up them Hawks before you can complete your plan.

[Joker]It's simple, we ahh...kill the pathfinders.[/Joker]

 Messy0 wrote:


Is the grenades from the Swooping Hawks dropped before or after they come in? If its after they come in any Riptide with and Ion Accelerator and EWO or Missilesides are goin to tear up them Hawks before you can complete your plan.

After, but they don't need Line of Sight to drop them so I should be able to dodge a Riptide - Hawks don't scatter when arriving from Deep Strike anymore.

The Tau player in question doesn't run a Riptide anyway

Iranna.

Problem you are facing that Tau are likely to pack multiple interceptors, and most of them will have a secondary gun in the form of SMS, who ALSO needs no LOS to the target.

Deepstriking against us is a risky move.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Problem you are facing that Tau are likely to pack multiple interceptors, and most of them will have a secondary gun in the form of SMS, who ALSO needs no LOS to the target.

Deepstriking against us is a risky move.

I will gladly trade you a squad of Hawks for your Markerlight support

You don't get to Intercept them - if you can - until after I've dropped the Grenade Pack anyway.

Iranna.

I'm thinking take them out, using the range on your Prisms. A Couple of Large blasts should eliminate the Pathfinders, and with 60' range, only a few things can really hit you back.

 Sasori wrote:
I'm thinking take them out, using the range on your Prisms. A Couple of Large blasts should eliminate the Pathfinders, and with 60' range, only a few things can really hit you back.

Sometimes difficult when there's an Iridium Armour Commander at the front of the unit...

Iranna.

Skyshield instead of AGL is a good start.

Usually though, main markerlights are small units of path finders, or commander with drones.

The path finders are easy enough to mop up quickly, T3, 5+ really does not keep them all that safe.

The commander is a bit more annoying, since generally they wont run a 2nd commander (except named ones) which frees up irradium armour.
So a T5 model with a 2+ soaking up the wounds.

Might be a case of just scatterlasering them to death as quickly as possible.

 Iranna wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I'm thinking take them out, using the range on your Prisms. A Couple of Large blasts should eliminate the Pathfinders, and with 60' range, only a few things can really hit you back.

Sometimes difficult when there's an Iridium Armour Commander at the front of the unit...

Iranna.

Then use the Small Blast mode that is AP2.

 Sasori wrote:

 Iranna wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I'm thinking take them out, using the range on your Prisms. A Couple of Large blasts should eliminate the Pathfinders, and with 60' range, only a few things can really hit you back.

Sometimes difficult when there's an Iridium Armour Commander at the front of the unit...

Iranna.

Then use the Small Blast mode that is AP2.

With proper spacing you'll be lucky to hit 3.

3 Hits = 1/2 saved with 4++ and 0/1 saved with FnP. All to do 1-2 Wounds on a 4 Wound guy?

Iranna.

 Iranna wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Iranna wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I'm thinking take them out, using the range on your Prisms. A Couple of Large blasts should eliminate the Pathfinders, and with 60' range, only a few things can really hit you back.

Sometimes difficult when there's an Iridium Armour Commander at the front of the unit...

Iranna.

Then use the Small Blast mode that is AP2.

With proper spacing you'll be lucky to hit 3.

3 Hits = 1/2 saved with 4++ and 0/1 saved with FnP. All to do 1-2 Wounds on a 4 Wound guy?

Iranna.

Is there going to be an Iridium battlesuit commander in front of every Pathfinder Squad? What about the numerous other volume of fire options in the codex to take care of them?

Really, we can play "What If" back and forth all day.

Harlequins with Shadowseer? Hawks? Spiders going around the side of the support commander? Jetbikes doing same?

Plenty of very obvious solutions, methinks.

I always keep my pathfinder buried in cover, you will need some ignore cover to efficiently take them out

 Commander_Nightflier wrote:
I always keep my pathfinder buried in cover, you will need some ignore cover to efficiently take them out

Hawk Grenades as S4 AP4 and Ignores Cover.

Iranna.

 Iranna wrote:

 Commander_Nightflier wrote:
I always keep my pathfinder buried in cover, you will need some ignore cover to efficiently take them out

Hawk Grenades as S4 AP4 and Ignores Cover.

Iranna.

Also:
*Anything with a dedicated Divination Farseer* or sufficient number of Wave Serpents.

Another option is to mount your squads into Serpents and add some armored HS units. This can give Tau a hard time since their default S5 weapons wil not work.

Okay, then I'd tank shock Tau off the table.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Another option is to mount your squads into Serpents and add some armored HS units. This can give Tau a hard time since their default S5 weapons wil not work.

Okay, then I'd tank shock Tau off the table.

Tau: unable to handle AV12. You heard it here first.

Harlequins with Shadowseer? Hawks? Spiders going around the side of the support commander? Jetbikes doing same?

Plenty of very obvious solutions, methinks.

Taking them out isnt so much the issue, its where your unit is now sat after doing so.
Granted, removing markerlights is nice, but usually people will have 3 dedicated marker units.

Are you really going to put 3 of the above units in the line of fire to do so?
All you mentioned are short ranged and wont see another turn.
So, best case is they fly in, tear the unit apart and die.
Worsed case, they fly in, fail to kill the unit and then die.

You dont want 3 suicide units just to stop markers, not when 2 of those marker units are under 100 points each.



You really do need to shoot them at range if possible, as you really dont want to be in double tap range, let alone while they have markers.



Im still thinking that scatter walkers are a nice choice here.
The range keeps them out of basic range for pulse, and they get enough shots to really do damage.

Hell, throw a skyshield at the front of your zone and load it with ranged units, just dont get close with a 200-300 point unit thats going to die, job finished or not before hand.

 Jackal wrote:

Harlequins with Shadowseer? Hawks? Spiders going around the side of the support commander? Jetbikes doing same?

Plenty of very obvious solutions, methinks.

Taking them out isnt so much the issue, its where your unit is now sat after doing so.
Granted, removing markerlights is nice, but usually people will have 3 dedicated marker units.

Are you really going to put 3 of the above units in the line of fire to do so?
All you mentioned are short ranged and wont see another turn.
So, best case is they fly in, tear the unit apart and die.
Worsed case, they fly in, fail to kill the unit and then die.

You dont want 3 suicide units just to stop markers, not when 2 of those marker units are under 100 points each.





You really do need to shoot them at range if possible, as you really dont want to be in double tap range, let alone while they have markers.



Im still thinking that scatter walkers are a nice choice here.
The range keeps them out of basic range for pulse, and they get enough shots to really do damage.

Hell, throw a skyshield at the front of your zone and load it with ranged units, just dont get close with a 200-300 point unit thats going to die, job finished or not before hand.

Warpspiders have the advantage of being able to shoot, then run D6, and then jump back 2D6. It's weapons are also +1 Strength against Tau. So they can pop off their weapons, and then jump either out of LOS or into terrain.

I was actually thinking of warp spiders myself as well. Their warp jump does not trigger interceptor either so it's quite nice.

As I've been playing Tau a lot lately I can comment a bit in my new meta which has been CSM tau.

It's still mostly cover ignoring with noise marines + heldrake + Tau with commander+marker drones + riptide with Ion and interceptor+ misslesides.+ interceptor.

It's actually been fairly static however so grabbing far away objectives have been a pain and the list is weak in troops but it's blown up many things quite handidly. Also somewhat weak vs fliers as I didn't bother with too much skyfire but the heldrakes have been able to handle it along with a lot of missles. The interceptors are mostly to counter deep strikes.

I have a feeling that this kind of list would be tough for the new elder to handle. Incidentially I have quite a few elder/DE players around so the meta has changed quite a bit. Only 2 marines still playing marines oddly enough.

So, to clarify, Warp spiders can move 12 inches in the movement phase, run d6 in the shooting, and then move 2d6+6 inches in the assault phase?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nevermind, I think I'm reading this wrong.

deathmagiks wrote:
So, to clarify, Warp spiders can move 12 inches in the movement phase, run d6 in the shooting, and then move 2d6+6 inches in the assault phase?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nevermind, I think I'm reading this wrong.

Actually, they move 6+2d6 in the movement, Run/shoot or shoot/run D6, then Jump back, 2D6 in the assault phase.

So they have a potential 36" range movement?

 Messy0 wrote:
So they have a potential 36" range movement?

This is correct.

On the flip side, you will have to take some risk with the warp jump as you can randomly lose a model though can be worth it.

Messy0 wrote:
So they have a potential 36" range movement?


This is correct.

On the flip side, you will have to take some risk with the warp jump as you can randomly lose a model though can be worth it.


The Warp Spiders are jet pack infantry and when they move they can choose either the regular jet pack or they can choose the warp jump. If they warp jump they move 6+2d6 inches and loose a random mocel on a doubles. You will only be able to do the thrust move in the assault phase if you chose the jet pack move, not the warp jump. So with jet pack you can move 6 run d6 shoot and then thrust move 2d6. Warp jump you will move 6+2d6, run d6 and shoot. That is what I am reading under warp jump generator on page 67 at least.

Prophet of Khaine wrote:
Messy0 wrote:
So they have a potential 36" range movement?


This is correct.

On the flip side, you will have to take some risk with the warp jump as you can randomly lose a model though can be worth it.


The Warp Spiders are jet pack infantry and when they move they can choose either the regular jet pack or they can choose the warp jump. If they warp jump they move 6+2d6 inches and loose a random mocel on a doubles. You will only be able to do the thrust move in the assault phase if you chose the jet pack move, not the warp jump. So with jet pack you can move 6 run d6 shoot and then thrust move 2d6. Warp jump you will move 6+2d6, run d6 and shoot. That is what I am reading under warp jump generator on page 67 at least.

I don't think that's true.

If you choose to make a warp jump move in the movement phase, you don't use your jetpack, you make a warpjump. Then, there is nothing prohibiting you from using your jetpack in the Assault phase.

I do not think you could or should be able to do the thrust move in the assault phase if you used the wjg mode in the movement phase. The reason I believe this is that the thrust move is based on using the jet pack in the movement phase which you did not, you used the wjg. This is ofcourse my interpretation of this, others may read the warp jump generator rule differently and that is fine. It would seem odd to me that a unit can move 6 +2d6, run 6d, shoot and then thrust move 2d6 in the assualt phase. This could possible be up to 18+6+12 for total 36 inches from an infantry unit. If this is how the writers meant it then they shoudl be more clear about it as I can hear the wailing of Eldar opponents crying FROMAGE!!!!!!!!.

This I think does need clarification in an FAQ.

Run a few games playing it this was and report back as to your experience.

May Khaine be with you.