DakkaDakka - Warhammer 40000, Flames of War, Warmachine and Warhammer Forums
ForumGalleryArticlesVideoHobby BlogsStore FinderPlayer FinderArmy PainterJoin Us!
Switch Theme:

Triple Wraith Knight viable? 1750 Eldar  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Can the Wraith knight be competitive? It needs support to work due to 3+ armour. I can't see me needing more than 1 suncannon so thought Id take the other 2 Vanilla to help ranged AT. The rest of the army will be fast and good AI so figured the Wraithcannons were the best bet. No Aa at all though...

Farseer: witnessing, spear, jetbike, Spirit Stone 150
5 Warlocks: 5 jetbikes, 4 spears

6 Jet bikes: 2 cannons 122
6 Jet bikes: 2 cannons 122
6 Jet bikes: 2 cannons 122
6 Jet bikes: 2 cannons 122
3 Jet bikes: cannons 61

Wraith knight 240
Wraith knight 240
Wraith knight: Suncannon, scatter laser 300

Am I barking up the wrong tree here? No Warp Spiders makes me sad and No AA concerns me greatly. AT is also a concern. DE should kill the knights pretty easy. But I can see Tau struggling, whilst Space Marines of any flavour but Wolves will also find this difficult to deal with. Thoughthe lack of character status means you can't be as combat aggressive with them as Id like. What do you think? How would you make the big lad competitive?

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Yes my Colour is Black but not for the reasons stated mainly just because it's slimming... http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com 
   
Advert


Login or Register to make this and other promotional elements disappear from your dakka browsing.
Made in us
Foolproof Falcon Pilot






The Land of Clear Blue Water.....Hamms

I think it would be fun! Actually remember that one of the warlock powers renew can give 1 wound back so if wraithknights close, can renew them to keep them alive, imagine 2-3 with renew! wow hard to put down the knights. I agree I think it is a shame that you can not just give up one Wraithcannon for the shield instead of HAVING to take the suncannon which in my opinion is not the greatest and gets pricey... I say run with it. You have inspired me to try it out as well... Cheers man...

Record __5th Ed______6th Ed
Team____W:L: D_____W:L: D
Eldar____TMTC______68:17:3
Ork______24:5:5 _____18:7:1
Chaos___NP________21:4:3
Chaos_Marines______17:15:2
Nids_____NP________15:2:2
Tau______NP________8:2:0
Dark Eldar_NP_______11:3:0
Sister's of Battle______1:0:0
Best General: 9/12 Best Overall: 6/1/13 Eldar TLS, Best Painted Rock Con 10-'13 Team Ugly Winner 2014 January 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Yeah renew is why I've so many War locks. See if I can get 2 of them or even more and just keep pulling that Wraithknight back. Suncannon is good due to twin linked from scatter laser, would take more of it if troops where good AT. But bikes seem the best option by far as it allows mobile psykers who can actually use blessings...

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Yes my Colour is Black but not for the reasons stated mainly just because it's slimming... http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Sniper Drone





Might be an idea to drop a warlock and some of the farseers gear to get a skyshield. That way it'll take twice the number of low ap shots to take a wound off your knights.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





djn wrote:
Might be an idea to drop a warlock and some of the farseers gear to get a skyshield. That way it'll take twice the number of low ap shots to take a wound off your knights.


? Why. Remember I'll keep them largely in cover.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Yes my Colour is Black but not for the reasons stated mainly just because it's slimming... http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Deadly Dire Avenger



Florida

 FlingitNow wrote:
djn wrote:
Might be an idea to drop a warlock and some of the farseers gear to get a skyshield. That way it'll take twice the number of low ap shots to take a wound off your knights.


? Why. Remember I'll keep them largely in cover.


I hope you play with a lot of tall cover.

8100
3000
2000
http://floridaminiaturepainting.blogspot.com 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Sniper Drone





 FlingitNow wrote:
djn wrote:
Might be an idea to drop a warlock and some of the farseers gear to get a skyshield. That way it'll take twice the number of low ap shots to take a wound off your knights.


? Why. Remember I'll keep them largely in cover.


Fair enough but;

Area terrain is only 5+, you need to be behind a ruin for 4+. You'll need city fight to cover all 3 WKs.
Cover can be stripped by;
1. Marker lights
2. Shooting eg serpent shield
3. Equipment eg multi sensor spectrum
4. Psychic powers eg perfect timing.

The only thing messing with invulnerable saves is null zone I think.
   
Made in us
Foolproof Falcon Pilot






The Land of Clear Blue Water.....Hamms

Remember that Wraith Knights are Monstrous creature, those tall bastards get cover for setting a toe in terrain + get cover for being behind a squad of troops or anything, that is how monstrous creatures work (in 6th ed anyway, not so in 5th).

I agree with the jetbikes, I use them for one thing only, taking or contesting objectives, I don't plan on them doing anything else really..... occasionally if I have a lock with destructor and shuricannon I can ruin a ig squad, but that is about it...

Record __5th Ed______6th Ed
Team____W:L: D_____W:L: D
Eldar____TMTC______68:17:3
Ork______24:5:5 _____18:7:1
Chaos___NP________21:4:3
Chaos_Marines______17:15:2
Nids_____NP________15:2:2
Tau______NP________8:2:0
Dark Eldar_NP_______11:3:0
Sister's of Battle______1:0:0
Best General: 9/12 Best Overall: 6/1/13 Eldar TLS, Best Painted Rock Con 10-'13 Team Ugly Winner 2014 January 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Excellent thread

I like the Skyshield idea. What is the range of most deldar poison guns( factor in transport movement )? That is what i'd mostly worry about.

Otherwise, the WK should be able to hang back and pop stuff, destroy stuff, from a distance. Just these massive towers of powerful shooting.
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler






You'll be hard countered by Helldrakes or any other sufficient cover ignoring weapons (which are pretty prevailent this edition). That said an interesting tactic you can use if you bring a skyshield is to Deep strike one of your knights on to it since they are jump and you can't scatter on the landing pad (though I personally wouldn't do it because placing such a large unit on the pad that gives it ++4 in addition to its already impressive stat line seems a bit chessy).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/05 03:04:38


Games Workshop: Ruining Chaos Space Marines since 2007

First they raised prices on the Eldar, and I did not speak out because I did not play Eldar.

Then, they raised prices on the Orks, and I did not speak out because I did not play Orks.

Then, they raised prices on the Nids, and I did not speak out because I did not play Nids.

Then, they raised prices on the Marines, and there was nobody to speak out for me. 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





I agree with the jetbikes, I use them for one thing only, taking or contesting objectives, I don't plan on them doing anything else really.....


They have good damage out put now. With Doom they are pretty lethal. They hit 8 out of 9 with S4 rending guns. Yeah Id need to gang 2 up on a squad to murder it but 2 squads should make a mess of most infantry squads. By this I mean they should kill 5.5 marines and over 3 terminators without doom. Which goes to 9.4 and over 5 with Doom. Utilise their mobility to attack isolated targets.

As for Helldrakes they ruin the JBs day no threat to the Knights though. As for cover vs invun on the Knights. Let's look at what actually strips cover:

Templates- no threat to Knights.
Tau- mostly S7 giving me armour or S6 to ignore it or very few shots. Railsides (very rarely seen) are about the biggest threat. Or obviously the Bomb, but what doesn't struggle against that... to be honest the Knights will stand up to it best.
Perfect timing- they have to roll that power and the guy has to be out in the open the turn before hand to use it.
Vector Strikes- almost exclusively S6, helldrake does S7 may cause 1 wound, not that bothered again. Would rather him vector strike the Knights than the bikes.

Compared to Null zone which someone selects and can use from inside a Landraider...

To be honest I'm far from convinced that invun gives any significant benefit. Yes it is a 4+ rather than what would mostly be a 5+. But I'm far from convinced it is worth dropping what I'd need to drop to get it.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Yes my Colour is Black but not for the reasons stated mainly just because it's slimming... http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com 
   
Made in de
A Crystal Tree in the Dome of the Seers






Hamburg

Cover for the Wraithknights might be hard to achieve. Those guys need to go up and personal with the enemy, especially in missions they cannot score.
The list needs playtesting since the WKs are a bit questionable. They are durable but their damage output is mediocre.

Moderator 40kOnline

Space Marines - Beginner's Guide (6th Edition)

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies:

DT:70-S++++G+++M++B+++IPw40k00D+++A++++/aR+T(T)DM+  
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Wuestenfux: Why do they need to be close? Any area terrain gives them a cover save. I also agree that Wraithknights are very iffy. Not sure if they are possible to build a list around but they certainly don't stand alone like a Dreadknight or Riptide.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Yes my Colour is Black but not for the reasons stated mainly just because it's slimming... http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Winged Kroot Vulture







How many of these models do you already have? That is an expensive-looking army! Since Wraithknights aren't vehicles, they get cover for having even their toe blocked, so I would drop that squad of 3 jetbikes and pick up an aegis defense line, that will give everything a nice 4++. Shoot away with guided wraithknights and shuriken cannons, then turboboost for objectives late game. If anything wants to get close, you have three wraithknights! I think this army could be very competitive, and if you get a bit bored as a static gunline, everything can move quite quickly.

As you mentioned, anti-air is a problem. (insert obligatory "helldrakes will cook this army" comment) But they do that to anything.

   
Made in de
A Crystal Tree in the Dome of the Seers






Hamburg

 FlingitNow wrote:
Wuestenfux: Why do they need to be close? Any area terrain gives them a cover save. I also agree that Wraithknights are very iffy. Not sure if they are possible to build a list around but they certainly don't stand alone like a Dreadknight or Riptide.

If the WK don't get close, they will not be top priority threats for your opponent and he will first target the GJBs.

Moderator 40kOnline

Space Marines - Beginner's Guide (6th Edition)

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies:

DT:70-S++++G+++M++B+++IPw40k00D+++A++++/aR+T(T)DM+  
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




 Oaka wrote:
Since Wraithknights aren't vehicles, they get cover for having even their toe blocked, so I would drop that squad of 3 jetbikes and pick up an aegis defense line, that will give everything a nice 4++.

Doesn't work. Normal, non-vehicle models still need 25% cover to get a cover save. The exceptions are Area Terrains and intervening models. So, Wraithknights don't get cover from Aegis, but they DO get cover from guardians.
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight






Yendor

There are actually a few things Jetbike Squads can do to keep around vs Heldrakes.

If fortune is pulled a Farseer or a Warlock can try to position himself in such a way that he is closest model to the baleflamer, a re-rolling 4+ invulnerable save might be able to absorb a significant number of wounds, keeping the squad's cannons alive hopefully.

Protect can also be used to create a Drake Proof Squad, and with 5 Warlocks 1 will almost certainy pull it. 2+ save jetbikes, whee!

Yea, Heldrakes still suck, and it will take some very careful planning to mitigate their damage, but there are at least some ways that jetbikes can survive a baleflamer pass.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/05 12:56:14


Xom finds this thread hilarious!

My 5th Edition Eldar Tactica (not updated for 6th, historical purposes only) Walking the Path of the Eldar 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Wuestenfux why wouldn't the Knights be a threat if sat at their weapons range? Not saying they'll be sat back but will be at the 31"-36" range largely.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Yes my Colour is Black but not for the reasons stated mainly just because it's slimming... http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com 
   
Made in de
A Crystal Tree in the Dome of the Seers






Hamburg

 FlingitNow wrote:
Wuestenfux why wouldn't the Knights be a threat if sat at their weapons range? Not saying they'll be sat back but will be at the 31"-36" range largely.[/quo
Not sure that their damage output is big enough. The enemy might ignore them and go for the scoring units. Although, not sure if this is possible when facing 3 Knights.

Moderator 40kOnline

Space Marines - Beginner's Guide (6th Edition)

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies:

DT:70-S++++G+++M++B+++IPw40k00D+++A++++/aR+T(T)DM+  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Why will tau have problems with WK?
   
Made in de
A Crystal Tree in the Dome of the Seers






Hamburg

jcress410 wrote:
Why will tau have problems with WK?

The basic Tau troupers, Fire Warriors, have S5 weapons and so can hurt WK's in opposition to bolter wielding Marines. Massive shooting in combination with marker lights can down a WK quickly.

Moderator 40kOnline

Space Marines - Beginner's Guide (6th Edition)

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies:

DT:70-S++++G+++M++B+++IPw40k00D+++A++++/aR+T(T)DM+  
   
Made in us
Winged Kroot Vulture







Teschio wrote:
 Oaka wrote:
Since Wraithknights aren't vehicles, they get cover for having even their toe blocked, so I would drop that squad of 3 jetbikes and pick up an aegis defense line, that will give everything a nice 4++.

Doesn't work. Normal, non-vehicle models still need 25% cover to get a cover save. The exceptions are Area Terrains and intervening models. So, Wraithknights don't get cover from Aegis, but they DO get cover from guardians.


Thanks, I learned something today! I had been advancing my monstrous creatures behind other units for cover saves since the start of 6th edition, and never realized that the 25% rule is still necessary behind terrain.

   
Made in gb
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot






 wuestenfux wrote:
jcress410 wrote:
Why will tau have problems with WK?

The basic Tau troupers, Fire Warriors, have S5 weapons and so can hurt WK's in opposition to bolter wielding Marines. Massive shooting in combination with marker lights can down a WK quickly.


Because Tau don't really have much in the way of Str 8+ firepower, especially current lists running Farsightbomb (Mostly Str 6 and Str 7) or HYMP Broadsides (Str 7).

The only thing that could trouble this list is Skyrays, who can pop off a 6-missile Str 8 Ignores Cover salvo. Two will almost kill a WK, statistically, with Marker support. That said they get one turn to do it... because it only will take them a turn to cross the board before they're punching in Tau face.



Mechanicus 10-0-2
Ravenwing: 40 - 2 - 2 Finally Defeated!
Deathwing: 2 - 0 - 2

Check out my Mechanicus Project here... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/570849.page 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Yeah what Asmodai said. With Tau high strength is either high ap (S7 AP4) or large blast (Riptide and Ionhead) or low rate of fire (rail sides, rail heads). The best Ap2 they have is S6 plasma.Skyrays being the biggest problem but they only shoot once.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Yes my Colour is Black but not for the reasons stated mainly just because it's slimming... http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





USA - Salem, OR

I was thinking about a list like this, hypothetically. But, I would rather go all Wraith. Can't argue with the jetbikes though, they're so cheap now why NOT take them?

That is another thing with this list; no dedicated Anti-Air. Personally, I think the Wraithknights are tall enough that they should be able to assault Flyers xD.

Past armies 4500 pts, 4000 pts
current armies Space Marines 3000 pts, Eldar 2000 pts, CSM/Demons 2000 pts
Successful Trades: 4
Swap Shop - CSM/Demons for sale 
   
Made in us
Winged Kroot Vulture







 evildrspock wrote:
I was thinking about a list like this, hypothetically. But, I would rather go all Wraith. Can't argue with the jetbikes though, they're so cheap now why NOT take them?


The solution is simple, surely there is a good way to model a wraith construct on a jetbike?

   
Made in gb
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot






It could work if they assault/shoot in concert and the opponent spends all their resources taking down the 18 T8 wounds, leaving the Jetbikes alone.


Mechanicus 10-0-2
Ravenwing: 40 - 2 - 2 Finally Defeated!
Deathwing: 2 - 0 - 2

Check out my Mechanicus Project here... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/570849.page 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Army Lists
Go to:   

Dakka 5.42 - Privacy Policy - Legal Stuff - Forum Rules