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Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

So this is a recruitment flyer from GW in europe. It's quite possibly the most passive agressive thing I've ever read. I had to read it a few times, I just couldn't believe what I was reading.



Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Actually, "attitudes are more important than skill (but skill is also important)" is pretty much also the motto of the US SEAL team's recruitment program. They toss out the most skilled people in favor of those with the most willpower and can-do attitudes, those that refuse to give up no matter the hardships they face.

While this isn't anywhere near that strict as the SEAL recruitment method, quite obviously, it's not a bad motto for a company to have. An employee being pleasant and positive can get better results than the employee being cynical and lazy, yet highly talented.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/17 04:03:04


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






How is it passive aggressive exactly? And believe it or not, save minimum requirements for jobs most places are going to go with the person they see as a better fit with the team, and more willing to learn, rather than the super skilled applicant who's an donkey-cave.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/17 15:28:52


4500
 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Many places are like this, you can improve someone with less skills but with a great attitude.
But it is not worth it to improve the attitude of someone with ok skills

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Exactly. Just because someone knows how to play Warhammer doesn't make him a good salesperson. Skills can be acquired, but a positive attitude is innate.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Sounds like pretty normal HR speak to me. They get off on things like "core values" and "having the right attitude" and lots of other meaningless waffle that means nothing on the ground (where sales targets are more important than your 'attitude').

I do like how the flyer has two things you'll never do as a GW employee:

1. See a female redshirt (or blueshirt in this case).
2. Build a Hierophant Bio-Titan!

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

I agree this is true and in fact have expressed this sentiment to the HR lady at my job, who I am friendly with, many times. We can teach people to do IT, but we can't teach them to not be an donkey-cave. My profession is unfortunately a magnet for the subgenre of highly technically proficient neckbeards who are so rude they should never interact with anyone, let alone be paid for doing so.

This is a wholly appropriate attitude for a customer-centric position to espouse.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/17 05:09:06


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
2. Build a Hierophant Bio-Titan!

That's a Tervigon/Tyrannofex, not a Heirophant.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




Not sure where you're seeing the passive-aggressiveness, to be honest. That seems about as benign as you can get.

RE: SEAL analysis - LOL.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






The OP probably thought GW should be hiring hobbyists, but instead they discourage it.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nottingham, UK

Maybe a skilled lawyer would have been good?

 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 Seaward wrote:
Not sure where you're seeing the passive-aggressiveness, to be honest. That seems about as benign as you can get.

RE: SEAL analysis - LOL.
I think you mean "analogy".


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 Melissia wrote:
I think you mean "analogy".


Nah, the analogy wasn't apt, but it was the analysis of what they're after in BUD/S that amused me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/17 07:31:50


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




WA, USA

So what exactly is passive aggressive about this?

What would you rather it say?

I know this is Dakka and GW cannot give bread to starving children without drawing snorts and insults here, but seriously? This is what we're doing?

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 Seaward wrote:
Nah, the analogy wasn't apt, but it was the analysis of what they're after in BUD/S that amused me.
It was in their own words actually.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 Melissia wrote:
It was in their own words actually.

Having more than passing familiarity with NSW, I highly doubt it, but we're more than a bit off topic at this point.
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 Seaward wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
It was in their own words actually.

Having more than passing familiarity with NSW, I highly doubt it, but we're more than a bit off topic at this point.
It was in a documentary about the SEAL teams, one of the ex-members described it that way.

I dunno if it's off topic myself, it IS discussing the importance of attitude

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/17 07:52:17


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




Ah, I believe I know what you're referencing, then. I think that particular sentiment gets misinterpreted quite a bit, having seen it brought up on other, unrelated forums. Willpower differential is definitely what separates guys who are in good enough shape to make it through and do from guys who are in good enough shape to make it through and don't, but if you're physically incapable of making the run times, making the dives, all the willpower in the world isn't going to help you. If you're making the point that they don't care if you can shoot or work land nav or - God - underwater nav, yeah, that's true. Then again, if you can't pick that stuff up, the fact that you have a will of iron ain't gonna matter.

I guess the tie-in would be that, while GW's looking for attitude over skills, if you can't be taught the skills, your attitude alone's not going to get you the gig.
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

That's why the full quote was "attitudes are more important than skill (but skill is also important)" -- the stuff in parenthesis are important

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/17 08:57:48


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 curran12 wrote:
I know this is Dakka and GW cannot give bread to starving children without drawing snorts and insults here, but seriously? This is what we're doing?


I agree in that there are more fertile grounds to plumb for finding Awful Things Games Workshop Did so we could have our two minute hate; but I do appreciate you giving me the opening to present to you a world (now switch to that movie trailer guy voice)...

A world where Games Workshop has to send a Cease & Desist to Weston Bakeries; because starving children are getting confused between Wonder Bread and Citadel Finebread®.

In courtrooms this summer!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





London

This isn't passive aggressive, this is just being honest. GW *does* have a very unique company culture - they offer terrible wages, and the retail staff do get shafted on a regular basis by the corporate peeps, but people work there because they want to be paid to do the hobby they love.

I enjoyed working for GW, and all in all it was a positive experience, my only bugbear was having to hard sell increasingly expensive models, requiring sales talent short of miraculous to meet targets. I enjoyed running the beginners games and the painting sessions much more.
   
Made in gb
Pious Warrior Priest




UK

The text in this flyer is a direct copy+paste of the text that appears on all job application pages on the GW website, it is GW's standard text for recruitment.
   
Made in ca
Executing Exarch






 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
The OP probably thought GW should be hiring hobbyists, but instead they discourage it.


Mostly because hobbyists at some point will be anti-GW, it happens to everyone. It eventually gets difficult to justify GWs choices because it directly effects your access to something you enjoy. That and hobbyists generally only work for GW to get cheaper stuff, which means they aren't there for the companies interests but rather their own. Before I started at GW there was a guy that worked there for 2 weeks, got his first pay cheque, ordered $1200 worth of stuff and never showed up again.

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Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




To me, this focusing on "attitude" rather than "skill" for prospective employees indicates that the salary is going to be pretty low.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Actually, having gone through a several stage interview process with a company recently using similar jargon emphasizing their "strong internal company culture" and how important it was to "fit in"... I personally will be avoiding working for any company like that in the future.

"Strong internal culture" that you absolutely Must fit into, is another way of saying "we want yes-men", imo.

It's not unique to GW by any stretch, but it's certainly a very negative attribute of any company, imo. No room for innovation, only being "fit into the mold". Not a job for someone who is a free thinker with half a brain... in my opinion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/17 12:40:45


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





That bit about long and prosperous careers is laughable.

Notice that they do not say what the right attitude is. I suspect that being greedy sob would help in the constantly growing part.
   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

I read the title as, "GW: Attitude more important than skulls" and immediately thought, "obviously this is a lie as skulls are everything to GW"

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Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought





UK

 Seaward wrote:
Ah, I believe I know what you're referencing, then. I think that particular sentiment gets misinterpreted quite a bit, having seen it brought up on other, unrelated forums. Willpower differential is definitely what separates guys who are in good enough shape to make it through and do from guys who are in good enough shape to make it through and don't, but if you're physically incapable of making the run times, making the dives, all the willpower in the world isn't going to help you. If you're making the point that they don't care if you can shoot or work land nav or - God - underwater nav, yeah, that's true. Then again, if you can't pick that stuff up, the fact that you have a will of iron ain't gonna matter.

I guess the tie-in would be that, while GW's looking for attitude over skills, if you can't be taught the skills, your attitude alone's not going to get you the gig.


I think we can settle that both you and Mel were right, I dont think anything she said wasnt perfectly logical, because its true that attitude is more important than anything else, there were several guys who were taller, fitter, stronger and leaner than me when I was doing my commando training, but they still quit before the 32 weeks was up. One of the most awesome guys in the troop everyone used to call him Dolph because he looked like Ivan Drago and he could do about 60 fething heaves and run a 5 minute mile, I think the guy quit about 2 weeks in.

But you are obviously right, and we dont even need to crank it up to basic underwater demolition, a great many military tests are simple pass or fail criteria, if you don't pass, you go home.

So your both on the money really. I suppose a happy medium is always required, and thats got to be true of even GW right? I mean, they won't give you a job painting minis no matter how enthusiastic and jovial you are if you suffer from parkisnons disease and your hands shake worse than Michael J Fox sitting on a ice cold washing machine during a spin cycle.

We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Omadon's Realm

Nothing is more important than skulls...


Anyways, this sort of thing is commonplace, half of it should be expected (Attitude is more important than skills, the right personality to work for us is more important than qualification etc) and I don't see much wrong with it. It's a common company line, they want malleable people now far more than they want intelligence or problem solving skills, due to litigation and unified action being necessary for an entire international company, they want you to be a good cog in the great machine and turn compliantly, that is the only thing they ask of you. So, turn compliantly and get paid, that's what big retail (or in this case, fairly small retail) is about.

The other half (we have a strong culture, you will adapt to service us, resistance is futile) is indicative of much of what I perceive as wrong about GW, from the outside looking in, that it is a company with no room for free thinking, deviation from the accepted way or indeed, initiative. It is why, at the very top, we've all seen attitude that comes across as closeted, aloof and out of touch, the end result of this sort of thing...




Great! Super!


Also, there's a little flow chart out there somewhere on the interwebs, taken from Tom Kirby's little red book, which is given to all new minions, about getting rid of people who ask too many questions. I've read that booklet, it's carved straight from the business ethos of Gordon Gekko, red braces and brick phones, it reeks of a corporate culture of 30 years past and a boardroom full of mirrors...




 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






I can train a person with a good work ethic to do a skill.

I can't make a lazy or stupid person with a skill do good work.

This is fairly common in most industries... It is one of the major things which is promoted when hiring retired or disabled armed services people. The army is providing a retired soldier with one hell of a work ethic who is willing and able to learn whatever skill you need him to (and he can probably obtain a clearance) so it is easier to hire him and train him than hire a skilled professional and risk he is not lazy or get him a clearance.

In my industry, I am convinced anyone who can use google and has a work ethic can do my job. You would be surprised how many people can't or won't google issues when they come up against a problem. They are paralyzed and just stop working if they can't figure it out, as if they are too good to google.

For a basically 'zero skill' position GW is advertising, it seems the only relevant thing needed is attitude.

Not at all seeing a problem as this is how the real world is.

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