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Within the movie Pacific Rim, there exists gigantic robots called Jaegers. These robots are built to defeat giant monsters (the kaiju)
How would they fair against say... a Reaver titan? a Warlord? etc.

I looked around and the "Hero" Jaeger is about 79 meters tall, with its counterparts being either slightly taller or shorter then that.
A warhound is 25 meters
A Reaver is 40 meters give or take
With warlords stacking in at 60 meters
and Imperator class towering at 150+ meters.

other faction titans (ork gargants, elder titans, tyranid Bio-titans, etc) are all roughly similar having counterparts in the imperium in terms of class size.

How would the jaegers fair against 40k?

My personal belief is that the Jaegers would stomp anything smaller then a warlord-class titan, however, 40k Titans are more based on long range combat using lasers, missles, guns etc to get the job done with some melee weapons thrown in with the Reaver and Warlord class (and lots of melee for the Tyranids being what they are). Jaegers, while having ranged weapons including plasma cannons, missles, and guns as well are more designed for melee (depending on the individual robot, but mostly made for melee).

Ill rope Chaos titans in with imperial since they are similar (minus a few demon things but they are essentially the same titans only gone bad)

Vs Imperial Titans, if a Jaeger could close the gap and get into melee range it could tear apart a Imperial titan limb from limb, except possibly a Imperator class which besides being far larger then a Jaeger has many hull weapons for defense, a Jaeger might have trouble dealing with something twice its size no less far more heavily armed.

Vs Eldar I would imagine it would be over once a Jaegers blow connected with the titan but Jaegers being more swift then an Imperial titan it would seriously give them a scare, but their speed would give them an advantage until a hit landed.

Vs orks. Besides the odd claw or chainsaw the Orks focus very heavily on ranged weapons and like the Imperial titans, If the faster jaeger can close the gap it could dismantle the far slower ork titan.

Tyranids would be tricky but due to the Jaegers beign built to kill giant monsters it would be another day at the office wouldn't it? The smaller Bio titans may be a pain if they are not dealt with immediately, much like a crazed animal jumping all over a person flailing around to catch it, but the warlord sized Bio-titans would be the normal routine for a jaeger.


Either way it would be an awesome fight. What do you all think?

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Well, the Jaeger's complete lack of any reasonably efficient ranged weaponry whatsoever means it would be put down by any well-equiped titan.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/14 02:47:04


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jaeger's do have weapons....Gipsy Danger has 2 plasma cannons and the Stryker has some chest cannon array..

However, the Jaegars are much more maneuverable then what I feel the imperial titans are. Eldar Titans would probably be faster but be felled by the weapon systems of Jaegars with ranged weapons as they would easily destroy an Eldar Titan.

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Other than maybe Eldar titans, the sheer ponderous nature of titans in 40K would be their death-knell if a Jaeger was allowed to get into melee range. I see 40K titans as being about as maneuverable as Assault Mechs from the battletech video games, if even that. They are completely reliant on their ranged superiority, and capability of void shields to absorb anything that's incoming.

Whereas Jaegers are essentially 25-strory MMA fighters. Especially in terrain that gave cover situations, the Jaeger would be behind the titan every time, while the titan would still be slowly pivoting around to bring their weapons to bear.

It's essentially the same as fighting Tyranid bio-titans. Other than simply killing them at range before they get close, I can't see situations where a Bio-titan would ever lose to a mechanical titan.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/14 03:00:56




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I doubt they would worry an Imperator too much, due to sheer size or armor/void shields. I doubt a punch or a non power weapon would ever penetrate the the Imperator's armor, and might struggle on the warlord. It would probably wreck the jaegers itself.

The others would be fair game for jaegers , yeah, as they are shown to be a lot more manoverable. I think the 40k titans have a significant advantage in armor, but eventually they will get worn down.

However, I really don't see them generally getting in range, based on the weapons described in the fluff. A single blast of most titan weapons look like they would wreck a Jaeger. Dont forget that Str D weapons melt through cover and go through starship armor. It's highly unlikely that a single shot of that wont kill the jaeger pilots.

Eldar ones would have a higher chance in melee, but not huge. Would still take a single pulsar shot to kill a jaeger tho.

The Ork ones might. They seem to have a lot more mass than a jaeger, so it's possible that it might get a cainsaw hit in, but eeh.

The bio titans look a bit deadlier than the Kaiju though. They did not seem to regenerate which is pretty important, and most bio titans tend to have bioweapons, which seem to be rare with Kaiju. If they are equal, as we saw in the move, most of they time, they are atleast evenly matched.

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The problem is that any Imperial titan is going to be supported by a whole load of other elements. Imperial strategy is based around the concept that there should never be a one on one fight, it is all combined arms. A lone titan would get carved up pretty quickly in a close range fight, but you add scout titans and regular ground forces and it is unlikely to come to that.

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 Justicar Cliesthenes wrote:
jaeger's do have weapons....Gipsy Danger has 2 plasma cannons and the Stryker has some chest cannon array..

However, the Jaegars are much more maneuverable then what I feel the imperial titans are. Eldar Titans would probably be faster but be felled by the weapon systems of Jaegars with ranged weapons as they would easily destroy an Eldar Titan.



I think you are seriously underestimating Eldar TItans.

An Eldar Titan would fell a Jaegar with ease, from range, or in Melee.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/21 02:04:34


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 AegisGrimm wrote:
Other than maybe Eldar titans, the sheer ponderous nature of titans in 40K would be their death-knell if a Jaeger was allowed to get into melee range. I see 40K titans as being about as maneuverable as Assault Mechs from the battletech video games, if even that. They are completely reliant on their ranged superiority, and capability of void shields to absorb anything that's incoming.

Whereas Jaegers are essentially 25-strory MMA fighters. Especially in terrain that gave cover situations, the Jaeger would be behind the titan every time, while the titan would still be slowly pivoting around to bring their weapons to bear.

It's essentially the same as fighting Tyranid bio-titans. Other than simply killing them at range before they get close, I can't see situations where a Bio-titan would ever lose to a mechanical titan.



Given the speed which Titans move on the table top, they should have little trouble swiftly moving around.

Its really a case of terrain. Can the Jager sneak up on the Titan. If yes, it has a chance. If not, its only a turbo-laser away from being a trillion dollar lawn ornament.


Reavers and Warhounds(in fluff) can carry TCCWs, which means they aren't helpless in melee.

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Between

We were discussing this earlier today. The Jaegers would be mincemeat before Titans because of their lack of effective ranged weaponry (unless you believe the wiki about Gipsy's Dark Matter Cannon). Get a Jaeger into close range and you'd need a bio-titan or an Eldar titan to take it on, or maybe a Transcendent C'tan.



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In cc, Jaeger, but in ranged combat, Titan all the way

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Jaegers sucked balls.
Designed primarily for melee fighting, (when they should have been packing high caliber explosive rounds with a high rof, instead of a VERY slow charging plasma cannon) they still managed to suck abysmally at melee since all they seem to do is throw punches. No Wolverine claws, no spiked fists, drills, saws, nothing... except a sword which they are outrageously reluctant to use, no matter how badly they're getting pummeled.

Jaegers are inferior in every way. Even a small 40k titan of any race would tear one to shreds in both shooting and melee.

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Between

I think the sword was one of Mako's refits, the yank had no idea it was there.



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 SisterSydney wrote:
Gretchin are seriously weaker than a 17-year high school athlete, let alone one whose team sport is killing heretics.
 
   
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 Furyou Miko wrote:
I think the sword was one of Mako's refits, the yank had no idea it was there.


I don't think it's ever stated where raleigh was born, so i don't think we can assume that he's a yankee.

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My money would always be on an Eldar titan.

Against an imperial titan, the fight would come down to the terrain. In an open area the imperial titan would win easily. An imperial titan is slower and not as agile but has vastly greater ranged offense and defense. Even if a Jaeger got off a shot a titan's void shields would be able to absorb it. In a dense city, the Jaeger would be able to get in close where its melee fighting would win out.

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 loota boy wrote:
 Furyou Miko wrote:
I think the sword was one of Mako's refits, the yank had no idea it was there.


I don't think it's ever stated where raleigh was born, so i don't think we can assume that he's a yankee.


Yeah, he could have been born in Texas for all we know and I dare anyone to call a Texan a "Yank" to their face.
   
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I think it comes down to how titans work in the fluff. Take for instance in Titanicus, titans are so relatively clumsy that there's the scene where they have to take it easy and slow down their walking with the Warlord, because the feet were starting to slip on the rubble from fallen factories. Everyone on board basically held their collective breath, as they all knew the stories about titans that moved to far into unstable rubble, and had their feet go out from under them, leaving them helpless on their backs.

Whereas Gypsy Danger is 25 stories tall and can run flat out, jump, and come down with both fists on a target. If you gave effective ranged weapons to something that big and nimble, they would be a holy terror.

Or another scene in Titanicus where one of the Moderati was proud of his titan's ability to turn the torso to 30 degrees rotation and slightly over and still fire, without it negatively affecting the titan.

Eldar titans may be better, but Imperial titans are geriatric walking tanks. They are best at shock and awe. Titans are the kings all the way with ranged combat, as they can engage targets effectively at distances of several kilometers (in some books can put ranging fire out at up to 10 kilometers). But they are big clumsy oafs when it comes to close combat.

One Warlord gets beaten by a traitor Warhound in close combat, when the Warhound is only armed with giant tusks on the head and the Warlord has a power fist.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/21 05:33:40




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 agnosto wrote:
 loota boy wrote:
 Furyou Miko wrote:
I think the sword was one of Mako's refits, the yank had no idea it was there.


I don't think it's ever stated where raleigh was born, so i don't think we can assume that he's a yankee.


Yeah, he could have been born in Texas for all we know and I dare anyone to call a Texan a "Yank" to their face.


Or pretty much anyone south of DC. I'm not some confederate sympathizer, but i'm from north carolina, so don't call me a yank, dammit. I'm not.


Also, i would hope titans had a range farther than 10km. WWII battleships had guns that could fire some 15km, which is so far away that you can't even see the target because the earth's curvature comes into effect and blocks out anything past i think 12 km.

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I think weapons ranges given in books like Titanicus are dramatically lower than WWII battleships because that's the "effective range", because of all the course changing that's going on between titans that are firing at one another. I'm sure ranges against stationary targets would be quite substantially longer.

According to Titanicus, a Warlord that has gone into a "crouch" will take a full minute to get enough hydraulic pressure to stand completely upright. Something that sluggish is not even in the ballpark of Jaegers and their mobility in Pacific Rim.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/22 03:16:12




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 Archonate wrote:
Jaegers sucked balls.
Designed primarily for melee fighting, (when they should have been packing high caliber explosive rounds with a high rof, instead of a VERY slow charging plasma cannon) they still managed to suck abysmally at melee since all they seem to do is throw punches. No Wolverine claws, no spiked fists, drills, saws, nothing... except a sword which they are outrageously reluctant to use, no matter how badly they're getting pummeled.


That would be because of Kaiju Blue - the Kaijus blood is toxic, as they explained at the start of the film, so they're reluctant to do anything that could cause bleeding. Wolverine claws, spiked fists, drills, saws, etc would cause massive amounts of blood loss, which would in return ruin the water supplies of any cities the fighting is in. That's why they didn't activate the sword until they were in orbit as well. A Kaiju bleeding on the road isn't bad and can be cleaned up, a Kaiju cut to shreds in the harbour is a massive problem.

That's why the Kaiju use their fists for the majority of the fighting - good old blunt force trauma. The guns and blades are last resorts.

It's a crappy excuse written into a badly written movie for an excuse to have robots punching monsters, but it's the excuse given. It sure made for some fun monster punching fights though.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/07/22 03:26:22


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 Furyou Miko wrote:
We were discussing this earlier today. The Jaegers would be mincemeat before Titans because of their lack of effective ranged weaponry (unless you believe the wiki about Gipsy's Dark Matter Cannon). Get a Jaeger into close range and you'd need a bio-titan or an Eldar titan to take it on, or maybe a Transcendent C'tan.

In reality a dark matter cannon would do nothing as dark matter only interacts via gravity. So any weaponizable amount would likely wreck the planet.

   
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 Furyou Miko wrote:
We were discussing this earlier today. The Jaegers would be mincemeat before Titans because of their lack of effective ranged weaponry (unless you believe the wiki about Gipsy's Dark Matter Cannon). Get a Jaeger into close range and you'd need a bio-titan or an Eldar titan to take it on, or maybe a Transcendent C'tan.


A Transcendent C'tan would wipe the floor with a Jeager, both in CC and Ranged.

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 -Loki- wrote:
 Archonate wrote:
Jaegers sucked balls.
Designed primarily for melee fighting, (when they should have been packing high caliber explosive rounds with a high rof, instead of a VERY slow charging plasma cannon) they still managed to suck abysmally at melee since all they seem to do is throw punches. No Wolverine claws, no spiked fists, drills, saws, nothing... except a sword which they are outrageously reluctant to use, no matter how badly they're getting pummeled.


That would be because of Kaiju Blue - the Kaijus blood is toxic, as they explained at the start of the film, so they're reluctant to do anything that could cause bleeding. Wolverine claws, spiked fists, drills, saws, etc would cause massive amounts of blood loss, which would in return ruin the water supplies of any cities the fighting is in. That's why they didn't activate the sword until they were in orbit as well. A Kaiju bleeding on the road isn't bad and can be cleaned up, a Kaiju cut to shreds in the harbour is a massive problem.

That's why the Kaiju use their fists for the majority of the fighting - good old blunt force trauma. The guns and blades are last resorts.

It's a crappy excuse written into a badly written movie for an excuse to have robots punching monsters, but it's the excuse given. It sure made for some fun monster punching fights though.


That actually makes perfect sense. And I don't think it's actually a crappy excuse, I think it's a reasonable answer. Also think it's a fun movie.

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And I continue calling the Jeagers Kaiju. I don't know why.

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 Justicar Cliesthenes wrote:
jaeger's do have weapons....Gipsy Danger has 2 plasma cannons and the Stryker has some chest cannon array..

However, the Jaegars are much more maneuverable then what I feel the imperial titans are. Eldar Titans would probably be faster but be felled by the weapon systems of Jaegars with ranged weapons as they would easily destroy an Eldar Titan.


You forget that 40K Titans have shields that can absorb a fair number of shots before the Titan itself is hit.
   
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You're comparing a shark and a tiger... The sci-fi universes simply don't operate under the same technology, or with the same presumptions, or really with the same physics assumptions. It's not a matter of who would win, if we're going to do that then Wing-0 wins with his uber buster cannon of doom and ability to dart around. It's a matter of how do you compare two entirely incompatible things and ask which is better?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/22 05:54:13


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 troa wrote:
You're comparing a shark and a tiger... The sci-fi universes simply don't operate under the same technology, or with the same presumptions, or really with the same physics assumptions. It's not a matter of who would win, if we're going to do that then Wing-0 wins with his uber buster cannon of doom and ability to dart around. It's a matter of how do you compare two entirely incompatible things and ask which is better?
There are entire forums for questions like these, and the general rule is to assume both of their native physics works fine for the purposes of the fight.

Besides, crossover fights are far better than...*shudders*....crossover shipping.

   
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/23 01:52:39


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the titan would win stornger alloys better tech better weapons. Not completely sure the jaugers could get thru the armour of the titans and in imperial and ork cases they are crewed by alot of people so even board the jags.

   
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 loota boy wrote:
Also, i would hope titans had a range farther than 10km. WWII battleships had guns that could fire some 15km, which is so far away that you can't even see the target because the earth's curvature comes into effect and blocks out anything past i think 12 km.




The distance to the horizon depends on the size of the planet your are on, for an average human on Earth the horizon is 4.5~5km away
Using a Horizon distance calculator a Reaver has line of sight up to 22km away, and an Imperator has around 44km line of sight (Further if what its shooting at is tall enough)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/22 10:24:29


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Cherno Alpha in the film was very Titan like, very heavy with really strong armour but very stiff, slow and inflexible. Now if you compare that to another Jaeger that was Crimson Typhoon that was smaller, less heavily armed but extremely nimble you can see how the Jaeger 'could' defeat the Titan as I would back Crimson Typhoon (which in the case of the film is probably at the lower end of the power spectrum of all the Jaegers in it) to defeat Cherno Alpha through pure speed and damage accumulation, even if you strapped some Volcano cannons on Cherno, the slow speed and time it would take to aim and fire Crimson typhoon would already be out of the way!

Crimson Typhoon would not be able to defeat some of the larger enemies that Cherno could though, it is too light weight in the end, but Gypsey Danger and Striker Eureka in the film are as comparatively fast or faster along with being stronger and more heavily armored that Crimson....

Basically, some of the larger D-Weapons are so clumsy and slow that a Titan couldn't 1 shot a Jaeger as the Jaeger would evade the shot, it would be higher rate of fire weapons that the Jaegers would have to worry about, yet they could just get behind the Titan anyway, and lastly, a Jaeger in the film survived been nuked, so they can take damage.
   
 
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