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Haha, I think Toreador was here first. Don't hate just cause we rely on logic rather than emotion.

But if Abby and I ever do agree, duck and cover cause the bomb's about to go off.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Well, I have found that over time, I do eventually agree with a few things. I mean, it just happens like that.

Anyone notice the new rules on grenades, namely, that majority of squad needs to have them in order to gain their effect? Does this mean now that the Shadowseer will no longer give the squad assault grenades (i.e, harlis will always be init 1 when assaulting into cover)?

Does majority mean 50% or more, or over 50%?

If you lose a guy with grenades, so that the number of models in the unit depicted with grenades drops to lower than majority, they lose their grenades. But if you then lose another guy who doesn't have grenades, the unit gets its grenades back.

I love it!

Well yeah, Kil. Sometimes there's just not enough grenades to go around and my teachers always told me that if I don't share, I don't get to eat my candy. Same principle applies.

It's probably meant to address when an IC with grenades joins a unit without. I've encountered some discussions as to whether the squad benefits from the grenades as the wording in 4th (IIRC) was ambiguous.

The Eldar Codex says the Shadowseer's entire squad counts as having plasma grenades, so its not an issue.

ubermosher wrote:It's probably meant to address when an IC with grenades joins a unit without. I've encountered some discussions as to whether the squad benefits from the grenades as the wording in 4th (IIRC) was ambiguous.

The Eldar Codex says the Shadowseer's entire squad counts as having plasma grenades, so its not an issue.

GW will need to phrase the rule carefully and unambiguously or there will be trouble.

Kilkrazy wrote:GW will need to phrase the rule carefully and unambiguously or there will be trouble.

Hahaha.

Kilkrazy: The Target Lock allows one to shoot at multiple units. The multi-tracker allows the vehicle to fire as if a fast vehicle.

So essentially, all Tau vehicle upgrades are nearly mandatory now. I suppose I could drop the multi-tracker and just use the SMS from behind/in cover. Doesn't sound like the game I enjoy now where I move my troops around and actually capture objectives or hop out to fire on a partial unit. Just sounds like gun line guard with a +1 save.

Screens with FCW or Kroot for crisis suit spam. Virtually mandatory 220+ points for a full Pathfinder squad to remove cover saves or ameliorate bad deep strike rolls. I'm certainly not going to come on my opponent's board edge with them.

No thanks.

>>Kilkrazy: The Target Lock allows one to shoot at multiple units. The multi-tracker allows the vehicle to fire as if a fast vehicle.

Yes, my mistake. It is 6 months since I cracked open the Tau codex.

Still, the point remains. The new tank rules are arguably pretty favourable to Tau tanks though they do become more expensive.

Hate to start asking rules questions about rules that haven't even been finalized much less released.. but some things are already bugging me after reading the rumours and skimming one of the pdfs...

Intermixed units (i.e., two units essentially occupying the same space).. can both units shoot and be shot? Even though most models would need to be shooting through most of the space between models of another squad? Or not? Making them un-shootable as they march across the field?

New rending rules are on the same page as new sniper rifle rules.. the latter of which includes rending. How does that work against sniping vehicles, when AP is still 2d6? Either die coming up a 6 invokes the +D3? Two 6's = +2D3? Or any combined roll of 6+??

Ah well.

Apologies if these have been mentioned already.. it's a lot of posts to slog through.

Sniper rules itself says you cannot add any die to the 2D6, and it specifically included rending (atleast in the copy i've seen).

However intermixed squad is an interesting rules question. Assuming the eye level and target of both units is identicle: I think geometricaly this would cause one units LOS to be blocked by the leading edge of another, while models making up that leading edge can shoot and be shot. Probably some outlier of the non-leading unit could draw LOS as well (or shoot another target perhaps).

You could argue that there's the possiblity of precise placement such that the leading edges of both units are exact and those models could both shoot and be shot, but the precision required is beyond the scope of a wargame IMHO. Even ignoring that, LOS for intermixed units will take some measuring.

Anyone more mathmaticaly inclined is welcome to interject.

Intermixing units is going to cause so many potential problems that GW would be well advised to make a rule against it.

Good thing the useless chaos demons suddenly got a use as extra troops for objectives.

Upon reviewing the leaked file, did anyone notice that GW never addressed the "can't assault within 1" of a unit that you are not in combat with" rule. If someone wants to go crazy, the unassaultable unit configurations still there.

Gitzbitah wrote:
Or even better-
"Bikes all now get a 3+ cover save for their turbo-boost. So the psy-cannon thing is out the window. "
If that holds up, every Waaagh! will need the supreme cover of a unit of nob bikers with painboy roaring down the field. 3+ cover, 4+ FNP will hold up to the round or so it takes them to get into close combat.

Yes because the 3+/4+ save they will get is SOOO much better then the 4+/4+ they have now.

Mind you it is better

But cover save is actually worse then and invunerable save. Just ask any Tau player. Had one use marker lights to remove the cover save from my Nob bikers then light them up with railguns. Ouch three dead nob bikes.

randyc9999 wrote:Anyone notice the new rules on grenades, namely, that majority of squad needs to have them in order to gain their effect? Does this mean now that the Shadowseer will no longer give the squad assault grenades (i.e, harlis will always be init 1 when assaulting into cover)?

I notice that it made grenades useless for orcs. We go from strike last without them to strike last with them. WOO HOO!

I was thinking...It seems that GW is taking any player skill-based rules out of the game.

First, Guess range weapons went. Now it's the kill zone going away. It was a mark of player skill to be able to set up a charge or shot to get the best result. It was the equivalent of getting a flank or rear charge in Fantasy.

skyth wrote:I was thinking...It seems that GW is taking any player skill-based rules out of the game.

First, Guess range weapons went. Now it's the kill zone going away. It was a mark of player skill to be able to set up a charge or shot to get the best result. It was the equivalent of getting a flank or rear charge in Fantasy.

Guess range weapons went somewhere ?

That's the first I've heard of it.

adamsouza wrote:

skyth wrote:I was thinking...It seems that GW is taking any player skill-based rules out of the game.

First, Guess range weapons went. Now it's the kill zone going away. It was a mark of player skill to be able to set up a charge or shot to get the best result. It was the equivalent of getting a flank or rear charge in Fantasy.

Guess range weapons went somewhere ?

That's the first I've heard of it.

Yep, in the transition to 3rd to 4th it just became an increased chance of scattering further.

That stuff sort of bugs me. I like guessing ranges and stuff.

After you played around 4 games it wasn't really guessing anymore.

I cheesed off some redshirts at a 2001 Gamesday by helping teammates snipe dark eldar sybarites by telling them ranges like 23 and 3/4 inches for their mortars (which would place it on the mini's head). Guessing was NOT random at that point.

So now all blast weapons just scatter a d6 and don't require a to hit roll.....

Vanilla change for me. I liked guessing, it was fun, but like IntoTheRain said it wasn't really guessing once you got good at it.

The new way should be faster, and alot better for people who never got the knack of guessing range.

adamsouza wrote:So now all blast weapons just scatter a d6 and don't require a to hit roll.....

Vanilla change for me. I liked guessing, it was fun, but like IntoTheRain said it wasn't really guessing once you got good at it.

The new way should be faster, and alot better for people who never got the knack of guessing range.

Yep. I prefer the new way. I want to test my tactical skills, not my ability to estimate distances using an archaic measuring system.

I've never seen anyone really blow it in 40K, but I've had moments where I've laughed soo hard soda shot out of my nose watching people guessing distances in centimeters, when they are used to inches, while using Nova Cannons in Battlefleet Gothic

Asmodai wrote:

adamsouza wrote:So now all blast weapons just scatter a d6 and don't require a to hit roll.....

Vanilla change for me. I liked guessing, it was fun, but like IntoTheRain said it wasn't really guessing once you got good at it.

The new way should be faster, and alot better for people who never got the knack of guessing range.

Yep. I prefer the new way. I want to test my tactical skills, not my ability to estimate distances using an archaic measuring system.

It's been a great while but I distinctly recall a player in our local gaming group who was pathetic at judging guess distances. Well, we all decided to play in a tournament at the local game shop and later in the day I was told he was cheating with guess weapons. He had two subtle marks on his arm for distance...I kid you not. I can only assume he was pointing at units when he guessed distances and people didn't pick up on it.

Anyways, one of the guys in the know got ready to play him, he said "Go to the bathroom and wash your farking arm before we play". It still makes me glow inside remembering....

Yep, there were happenings at tournies like that. People that new the length of their arm from elbow to wrist. It was fun, but really didn't contribute to the game any.

The 2" kill zone can do that too. Now with things like the lash you have people setting up conga lines (and they used to do it somewhat without lash) just to kill the one or two guys they needed. It's taking advantage of a rule to get the desired effect, not really a rule that adds anything to the game.

I think the current scatter rules are better than the guess scatter rules (for the reasons mentioned).

But the scatter roll is still a pain. There are so many people that can’t judge the direction of the arrow! I’ve seen people that are off by as much as 90 degrees. I try to remain nice about it. But in a tournament setting when the shot counts, you have no choice but to call over a judge to verify the direction of the arrow. And many people take it as an insult that they are proved wrong. I can just see the sportsmanship scores going down whenever that happens...

~Logic

Sportsmanship is a total joke.

Good sports will always rate you high, while jerks who exhibit poor sportsmanship themselves will frequently mark you low to hurt your rating, becuase you know, they are poor sports.