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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





-You get a LoS if of the same type (MI/MC) if a character is with 3 rank and file units, not including unit champ.

-In horde formation, MC/MI/MB may Stomp up to 3 ranks deep. I just don't think you ever (hardly) see it, and certainly not 3 ranks.

-If a unit is a large target and a monster, if they suffer a multi-wound attack, the results are halved, rounded up. (If passed, something else would be done for stonehorns). I thought about LoS for monsters, but even using heroes as targets, it would be easy to abuse.

   
Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

Horde stomp is worrisome. Normal ogres with shields clock in at 576 for a horde.
I wouldn't want to face the ~6 impact hits (S6) followed by 54 S4 attacks and 15-18 stomps.

Halving wounds for large monsters is pretty rough; especially on the large flying monsters that you can't block or redirect.
What if we Halved wounds on Large ground monsters? Wings and Flight make them less durable (lighter build).

Hell Cannon, Vortex Beast and Mutilisk take half, Chimera and Daemon prince take full.
Dragons, phoenix, terrorghiest take full, giants and beastmen monsters take half.
Hell Pit and Hydra taking half bothers me, but I expect the hydra to change a bit in the next book. Hell Pit taking half isn't that bad, since at least it doesn't have armor and can be effectively shot dead with rank and file (don't need cannons to kill it).

If you expand this to all monsters, then daemon prince takes full, and Bastiladon and Varghulf take half.

IMO, this is a pretty good fix because it does very little for the best and fastest monsters, and helps out the slower guys who can be redirected to gain additional turns of shooting at them.

-Matt




 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in us
Charging Bull




1. I could understand LoS for MI/MC, They need it, I thought it was going into the latest FAQ,

2 MC/MI/MB getting stomp in ranks? I play Ogres, and I still see this as a little much, Maybe give it to them on the charge? then once things settle they are not able to anymore,

3 I think anyone hit by a cannon ball should have a really, really good change a dieing, but that Flyers also should be able to dodge the shot, And thicker skined monsters could probably shurg it of as a flesh wound, so why not make it: Large targets on a to wound roll equal to or under 5 does D3+1 wounds, on a roll of a 6 it does D6 wounds, Flyers get a 5+ dodge to avoid the hit of any Missle weapon (to include magic Missles) from thier front arc. This helps to take some of the cannons over-poweredness away, and means that you can have a Monster on the table for a little longer, This also means you don't have to change rules for thinks like the Stonehorn.

2011 Throne of Skulls Champion (Lord of the Rings)
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





The stomp is REALLY expensive to buy. 576 is a lot, it's going to be too wide a lot of times, and they give up any dream of steadfast. It could be limited to two, but I honestly don't know how often you'll see 3 hordes of MI. You'll never see it with MC.

DP doesn't have to buy wings. It's kind of odd that if he does he is somehow cannon-fodder (literally). Large Target and Monster is a pretty good descriptive combo. If something that can thunderstomp and can't get normal cover manages to fly...well, it has big ass wings, it's certainly not small.

I don't want to mention the actual wound numbers since some stuff is multi-wound 2 or D3. It's not just a anti-cannon.

A cannon would still be about the best cost:dmg ratio shot you could make vs. a monster. It just makes it more worthwhile to field them, especially as generals.

   
Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

With a blanket Half Wounds on all large monsters, we will still have overly awesome daemons princes and chimeras with regenerations and crappy shaggoths, giants, and vortex beasts.

Any fix to monsters should look at the disparity of monster quality; which is most cases is split between fly and walk.

As for the stomps, against a 100mm front (like 5 wide elves) that ogre block is still throwing out 4 impact hits, 12 stomps and 36 attacks. That's ~34 hits vs anything WS6 or less.

Having run big ogre blocks since ogres were created, I can tell you they really don't need more stomp then they have.
Monsters could use a bit more; maybe roll twice and take the higher.

-Matt


 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





People run big ogre blocks all the time. They don't run horde ogre blocks.

Some monsters are going to be better than others in different books. No single rule is going to come close to normalizing that. Giving stomp to MI didn't make all MI equal, if they were unequal it just kept them the same + stomp.

I don't think flight is "the" disparity between monsters. If you got your general on a griffon, he can fly, but he's still cannon fodder. Which is why you see them when people really really like flying generals.

   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




DukeRustfield wrote:
-You get a LoS if of the same type (MI/MC) if a character is with 3 rank and file units, not including unit champ.


Ogres already have the Look out Gnoblar for this. Sure it'd be nice.... but so would laser eyes on all my troops that do 2d6 hits per model.

So the question is why? I don't feel MI characters are suffering from a lack of durability and if you want a LoS that is assured to last longer... then take more troops.

-In horde formation, MC/MI/MB may Stomp up to 3 ranks deep. I just don't think you ever (hardly) see it, and certainly not 3 ranks.


Why? I wasn't aware that MI or MC were particular suffering on the damage output front. Quite the opposite really.

At 2.5k points you could throw out a Throgg list with three Troll Hordes with XHW that each produce 60 STr 5 Attacks or 18 Str5 auto hitting hits with no armor save + 18 st5 auto hitting stomps, all wrapped up with a 4+ regen.

The above is scary enough with just the 6 stomps, and you have around 300 points left to play with... more if you forgo the XHW which is, frankly, overkill.

   
 
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