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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





IL

From TMP the "change in management" ain't looking so pretty, I hope nobody here is too heavily invested in the KS.

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=294238&page=2



KenofYork 16 Oct 2013 6:34 p.m. PST
I would like to warn people that I have had an extremely unpleasant dealing with the new management. Be very careful about these guys. I am owed a lot of money and I have been informed that the new management will not pay debts owed by Tony. I have a very strong reason to believe the management shift was a shell game to make the kick starter look better. Can't prove it, but have a very strong feeling about it.


This company has been the worst dealings I have had in my limited time as a part time, one man plastic company. I will NEVER work with them again.

They had planned for me to make the plastic mech in the kick starter with out ever even talking to me about it. I found out I was the supplier after reading the kick starter and asking who was making it. I told them I would not be making anything for a company that owed me thousands of dollars and was making no attempt to pay. After I was paid for previous product I would be willing to look at the files and see what could be done. Well, they got a pile of money from kick starter and found someone else to make the mech. And they told me weeks ago they would be returning product, but they have not. This is NOT ok with me, but I have no choice. I would not have made the items if they had not ordered them. Still they have the items in their store, I have no money, and they are setting on almost $50,000 USD in kick starter money.


I am very sorry if this seems to be a bad business move to spread bad news about another company, but I am angry beyond the capacity for rational thought.

Be very careful dealing with them.




Why am I posting this? Ken is a stand up guy that produces a quality product and delivers on what he promises. Defiance is shafting a hardworking guy and not paying for product that they received (& in a sizeable quantity). They put up the front that everything was running above board and that the Tony based problems were out of the picture yet meanwhile they're stabbing another small company in the back.

While it's a bit late for people to withdraw their KS support I would encourage people not to support defiance products until they can get their crap together and make due on their debts to Proxie.

They racked up debts with wargames factory and now proxie, seems that the standard Reidy engine is at full steam as usual.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/17 06:31:58


Paulson Games parts are now at:
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Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.

Why does he not seek legal action against them?

I personally didn't back the kickstarter because I don't trust them as a company.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/17 11:08:05




 
   
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Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

That sucks. I love Proxie models... if Defiance games owes him, they need to pay up!
   
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Louisiana

 carlos13th wrote:
Why does he not seek legal action against them?

I personally didn't back the kickstarter because I don't trust them as a company.


Sometimes there's just not much to do about it, unfortunately. I don't know the circumstances, but there are plenty in which a lawsuit is either an undesirable or unworkable course of action.


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Defiance to the end , glad I stayed away from the kickstarter. I wonder if kickstarter has any recourse against defiance now. Or if people could go against kickstarter for not doing enough checking into this project? After all isn't that what kickstarter supposedly does for a week or so before a project goes live?

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And the Defiance Games shenanigans continue! Why does it feel like this company is run by teenagers?

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Boston, MA

Wouldn't strike me as a surprise, since the whole Defiance thing has been kind of a fiasco from day 1. Really curious why the Proxie Models guy hasn't tried any legal action though.

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Just like sand through an hourglass, these are the days of our defiance.. Start corny soap opera music...

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Why do people still give these clowns money?

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A kickstarter for a model that was on the release schedule for June 2012. What's fishy about that?

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Western Kentucky

Yeah for some crazy reason I'm not surprised at all. I had enough with them over the USMC, and learned my lesson.

The moment I saw the Female Marines goal get unlocked I knew something would happen. Heck, even the walker stretch goal was a bit of a stretch in believability. This will probably be the final nail in the coffin. If they botch this KS its game over.

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 Theophony wrote:
Defiance to the end , glad I stayed away from the kickstarter. I wonder if kickstarter has any recourse against defiance now. Or if people could go against kickstarter for not doing enough checking into this project? After all isn't that what kickstarter supposedly does for a week or so before a project goes live?

I believe they have a policy if the creator doesn't create a product, or fails to show any progress in a timely manner they have to offer a refund.

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weeble1000 wrote:
 carlos13th wrote:
Why does he not seek legal action against them?

I personally didn't back the kickstarter because I don't trust them as a company.


Sometimes there's just not much to do about it, unfortunately. I don't know the circumstances, but there are plenty in which a lawsuit is either an undesirable or unworkable course of action.



Makes sense. Especially if the suit would cost more than he is owed.



 
   
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 Sinful Hero wrote:
 Theophony wrote:
Defiance to the end , glad I stayed away from the kickstarter. I wonder if kickstarter has any recourse against defiance now. Or if people could go against kickstarter for not doing enough checking into this project? After all isn't that what kickstarter supposedly does for a week or so before a project goes live?

I believe they have a policy if the creator doesn't create a product, or fails to show any progress in a timely manner they have to offer a refund.
Kickstarter Terms of Service do say that., but Kickstarter doesn't actually enforce that in anyway.

It is up to you, as a backer to sue the creator for not delivering as Kickstarter will not do anything about those projects. So end result for cases when project fails and creator doesn't want to offer refund is that backer is out of money.

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics is the link to KS FAQ.
   
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TN/AL/MS state line.

Luide wrote:
 Sinful Hero wrote:
 Theophony wrote:
Defiance to the end , glad I stayed away from the kickstarter. I wonder if kickstarter has any recourse against defiance now. Or if people could go against kickstarter for not doing enough checking into this project? After all isn't that what kickstarter supposedly does for a week or so before a project goes live?

I believe they have a policy if the creator doesn't create a product, or fails to show any progress in a timely manner they have to offer a refund.
Kickstarter Terms of Service do say that., but Kickstarter doesn't actually enforce that in anyway.

It is up to you, as a backer to sue the creator for not delivering as Kickstarter will not do anything about those projects. So end result for cases when project fails and creator doesn't want to offer refund is that backer is out of money.

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics is the link to KS FAQ.

Thanks for clearing that up. I had always assumed you filed a complaint with kickstarter the go from there. I've never read the FAQ in any detail. Another reason to never pledge more than you can afford to lose.

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UK

A reason I never back kickstarters. Even with well known companies. I would get in on some but its just too unreliable. This lot are one of the worst
   
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Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

Motograter wrote:
A reason I never back kickstarters. Even with well known companies. I would get in on some but its just too unreliable. This lot are one of the worst

I think that is unfair to KS. Most of them* come through with good products. People like this guy are the minority.

*Citation Needed

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/17 21:13:24


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Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

Thanks for posting this topic, Paulson,
It definitely deserves a wider audience. I feel strongly enough about this to repost here what I wrote in the Defiance games KS thread where this was also announced.

Eilif wrote:Well, it looks like DG is not only terrible at customer service, product delivery and quality control, now they're patently dishonest as well. They will be getting none of my money until they make things right with Ken.

Ken is a good guy that I have dealt with many times ordering bases and terrain from his shop "Proxie Models". His Customer service is great and I've always been treated well. For DG to screw over a one-man shop that likely doesn't have the resources to fight legally is wrong on so many levels.

I've been following the battle egg product for years since it was a L&U concept idea on the website (and later forums) of Tony-eraWargames Factory. It really is the ideal armored suit for my Venturan infantry and fits well with the aesthetic of the other mechs I've made for them. Despite my refusal to buy sight unseen from a company with a poor quality history, I was more than willing to wait and see and buy it from a FLGS if it turns out well. After seeing their treatment of Ken, I think I can live without egg suits.

In the meantime, here's my plugs for Ken, a good guy making great affordable products right here in the USA.

Bases and building kits from his company Proxie Models:
http://proxiemodels.com/store2/

Rust Forge is a more affordable and reliable distributor of Ken's Shipping containers:
http://rustforge.com/commerce/index.php/28mm-terrain/cargo-containers/iso-shipping-container.html


Eilif wrote:... the fact that the KS hit 50k, shows just how willing folks are to overlook a bad track record, or not research the company they are supporting.
DG is a company that released three subpar products in a row with three missed deadlines. Yet all it took was a new and unproven management team and the fact that they were rebadging Cargo containers (designed and produced by Proxie) and folks were willing to open their wallets for a moderate discount.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/18 00:31:19


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Somewhere in south-central England.

I don't see how Kickstarter could afford to refund backers on a project that failed. They only collect a percentage of the funds paid over.

The backers don't have a contract with Kickstarter that might be enforced by the courts. The contract is with the project manager.

If his project has got far a lot of that money will have been spent, possibly making a contract dispute not worth the effort of pursuing.

The exception to these circumstances would be a deliberate fraud by a project manager.

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UK

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Why do people still give these clowns money?


It completely baffles me too.. with the history they have I'm amazed a kickstarter was even funded, never mind multiplying its original goal.

Needless to say, if anyone still hasn't got their product 3 years from now, they've only got themselves to blame, the history of this company has been easy to find and massively commented on for the entire last 2 years.

Even worse than AoW since at least with them you'll know that Felix will get around to delivering it at some point in 2017-2018. With Defiance there's bigger odds that the company will be "bankrupt" and then "reappear" with a new name for the next round of mugs to rip off.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/18 11:18:24


 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





IL

Well here comes the back peddling and denial phase:


Hello, there have been accusations regarding Defiance Games and it's business practices with outside contractors. I am not going to go into details here on Facebook as this is not the place for that sort of thing. I will be making a statement on this issue on our forums and in our next podcast.
People that know me, know me as a man of great integrity and honesty. Nobody is being deceived or kept from being paid as long as I'm running things. I will leave it at that. Look for my statement on this matter next week. Thank you

-Gary



Having been in contact with Ken as hearing details first hand he is indeed owed money for product. This same type of spin was thrown out a couple years ago when Tony Reidy/Defiance was in the same situation of being in massive in debt to the company that was producing their materials (wargames factory). They can try and twist things around but it doesn't change the fact that they have an outstanding debt with Proxie. It looks to be business as usual for DG, distort the situation, blame others and deny, deny, deny.



Reminds me of this classy guy "Hey you can trust me.. after all didn't I just say how honest I am? Past shady deals? Whatcha you kidding me? That was my twin brother Larry! Fuhgeddaboudit and we can make you a great deal today"

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2013/10/18 15:25:08


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I don't even KNOW anymore.


People that know me, know me as a man of great integrity and honesty... -Gary


Yeah, but we don't know you - for all we know, you're Tony posting under a different name.
   
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Western Kentucky

Its really unsettling to see this thread side by side with the Daniel Mandlebaum warning thread.

Obviously with Defiance its nowhere near the shenanigans Mandlebaum has pulled, but its still an ugly situation. I am not looking forward to see how this plays out, because I have a bad feeling there's going to be a lot of angry KS backers soon...

At least I'm not one of them this time.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

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IL

For sake of completeness and illustrate past behavior here's the letter from Wargames Factory.

They have a simular falling out with Ed from Troll Forged minis, lots of undelivered promises, piling up of debts and complete inability to work with their partner.

3 out of 3 tries have been a massive failure, and caused the other partnering companies to cut their loses and walk away. That speaks volumes.

Hopefully they'll get their gak together and pay Ken for the product he delivered on.





Public Statement from Wai Kee Hui regarding Wargames Factory

It has been a little more than 2 months since Tony Reidy posted his “Open Letter to Wai Kee Hui” on The Miniatures Page website. I was aware of this “letter” at the time of posting and although I was annoyed at his unprofessional tone and angered at what amounted to many outright lies, I decided that my best course of action was to stay out of online politics and instead focus on trying to get the company I had recently become majority shareholder of into functional order.

The past 2 months have been extremely busy with trying to figure out what orders had been placed and paid for before I took over, inventorying product that was still in stock at Triangle and setting up a new order platform and shipping facility. These goals have now been accomplished, with all outstanding orders shipped and our web store reopened.

Throughout this process I was cognizant of the defamation of character my associates and I were receiving in Cyberspace at the hands of Tony Reidy and Howard Whitehouse. Even though at many times the temptation was strong for me to jump in and tell my side of the story, I refrained from doing so while we were struggling to put Wargames Factory back on track. Now that we are on the road to recovery, and in lieu of increasingly slanderous postings being made by Tony and Howard, I feel the time has come for me to set the record straight.

I became majority shareholder of Wargames Factory along with all its’ intellectual properties on October 13th, 2010. This acquisition occurred because over the course of the previous 2 years Tony Reidy had run up a bill of more than $250,000 with my manufacturing company in China and had failed to make a single payment on his bill during this time. Despite rumors to the contrary, I am not an immensely wealthy man and this is a huge sum of money to me. When it became evident that Tony was unable and unwilling to pay his debt to me, I had to consider my options. Option 1 was that I cease making product for Tony and call in the debt I was owed, which would effectively put Wargames Factory out of business. Option 2 was that I assume 51% ownership of Wargames Factory in return for the $250,000 I was owed . The intention behind option 2 was that I would gain controlling interest and help manage the company into some sort of financial health, where I might be able to recoup the monies owed me as well as make money for the rest of the shareholders. When both options were presented to Tony Reidy he chose option 2 and signed the paperwork transferring majority ownership to me on October 13th, 2010.

What occurred next is that Tony Reidy felt he should still be able to continue to manage Wargames Factory as he saw fit, with my only input being to proceed to produce product as before. This was not a scenario I was comfortable with, for obvious reasons. As a point of fact, before I signed the paperwork transferring the 51%, we had a forensic accountant look at the company’s financial health and it was discovered that the company had been running in the red for its’ entire existence under the management of Tony. While Tony is passionate about wargaming and the wargaming community, it was clear that he was completely unsuited to running this business. It was evident that for Wargames Factory to have any chance of financial success it would need to have a new business model.

The months following my acquisition of majority stock were rocky and tumultuous as I attempted to form some sort of working relationship with Tony Reidy. Many months were spent trying to get Tony to release access to the web store, company records and company bank accounts so that I could start to get a picture of what we were dealing with. In addition to the constant struggle to simply gain information regarding the company I now owned 51% of, more and more vendors and individuals started coming out of the woodwork claiming that Tony Reidy/Wargames Factory owed them money and they had never been paid.

I need to make something very clear. The agreement that Tony and I signed has a clause that states that he had fully apprised me of all debts the company owed before I became majority stockholder, and that any debts not disclosed were the responsibility of Tony, not Wargames Factory. I will not go into the long list of debts to both vendors and individuals undisclosed by Tony that have come to light over the past five months, but I am going to tell you about one specific debt.

When I took over the company I decided that we would need to move our operations and shipping out of the Boston area. This decision was based on the fact that my associates are based in the western United States and it made the most sense for our new business model to relocate there. When we told Triangle that we would regrettably be moving our shipping operations elsewhere, they informed us that before we could remove the Wargames Factory merchandise from their facility I would need to pay them the $5,000 that was owed to them for back salaries for their disabled shipping employees. This came as a big surprise to me, especially when I asked for a copy of their bill and discovered that Tony Reidy had not made a payment to the employees of Triangle for almost 2 years. In light of Tony and Howard’s recent posts claiming I cheated Triangle out of their money, I find myself most dishonored by this blatant lie.

There is not enough time for me to address all of the accusations and falsehoods about the new Wargames Factory team that have spun out of control over the internet for the past months, but I feel that I needed to shed a little light on what has actually transpired behind the scenes. For everyone’s information, between the $250,000 I was initially owed by Wargames Factory and the amount of money I have put into the company over the past 5 months to keep it afloat and get it back on its’ feet, it will be a long time before I possibly see any return on my investments. I am not a villainous, foreign millionaire doing a shady hostile takeover of a poor American company to make a fast buck. I am simply a business man who is making the best I can out of the difficult situation that is in front of me.

With that out of the way I want to let you know that while I am new to the wargaming world I am dedicated to providing the highest quality and most innovative product in the market and to listening to how you, our valued customers, would like to see Wargames Factory evolve. I thank you all for your patience during what was a very rocky transition and look forward to smoother sailing ahead.

Sincerely, Wai Kee Hui


For completeness, here's Tony's original letter:-

Wai Kee Hui - if your true intention is to salvage this company and pay back the debts - you have started down the absolutely wrong path.

I understand that this is so far beneath you because you run so many multi-yuan millions businesses - but if you want to salvage anything, you are proceeding in the absolutely worst direction right now.

Your faith in Lonnie Mullins is incredibly misguided. You're trusting a guy who threw me under the bus in order to save his own skin. A guy who has no honor whatsoever.

I gave Lonnie a job because he got laid off from selling paper utensils at Solo Cup. I felt I owed him after all the time he spent supporting the company. It was a huge mistake - and if I had listened to my "gut" I wouldn't have. He was brought in as a "sales" man - but he's not. He's an order taker. He sends out emails and hopes people buy something. If you think he's going to grow the business, you're smoking something.

On top of that - the PR nightmare Lonnie is creating right now is shocking. Lonnie has no filter. He can't speak decently to a customer without either pointing out a mistake the customer is making or trying to promote his own self-worth.

He is the king of turning people off because he's so full of himself - albeit with little "there" to back it up. I'm amazed that a guy I saved from unemployment would turn around and Bleeped text me this way. He's a scum bag.

As a now 4% owner in WF (down from 41%) - and nothing else at this point - I will tell you right now that Lonnie is not the resource you need to salvage things.

If you had actually shipped all the product we requested on the dates you said, this company could be salvaged. But until that happens, it will die a slow death.

If you want to make this work - get back on the track we started in August when I signed the deal to give you control.

Otherwise, I'm done with Wargames Factory. I signed an agreement to buy back the company in early January. I stand by that. But if you are going to continue to go down this path - "green" packaging - which basically means you are sticking a "sticker" on the face of a generic box - or sets that don't have the components I designed - then fine. I leave you to it. It is not the vision for WF that I or the rest of the team had. Howard Whitehouse, John Morse, and Tim Barry are incredible assets for the company and people who work their tales off to make things happen. They were the core team who I knew could take WF to the next level when we signed the deal with you. But it didn't happen on your end.

I've had zero control over this company since July/August... and now you are reaping the negative rewards. I can save it - I want to save it. The rest of the team is ready to get back in and make it happen.

Instead, you've shut us out of decision making - you've cut us off from the funds and given us zero ability to service the customer since October.

The wargames community completely supports a company like ours. But they will not support a company that doesn't respond to their emails and causes ongoing delays.

I welcome the opportunity to salvage Wargames Factory and buy back the controlling ownership. But I fear you have decided to go in a different direction that will result in the company failing and ultimately collapsing.

Please prove me wrong. The wargames community deserves a company like what I envisioned. A company that builds the sets they request. Let me make that a reality again.

All the best,

Tony Reidy

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/18 15:42:35


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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

As far as I can tell, the Defiance Games proprietor lacks the business skills to match his ambition, and is in denial about it.

That is rather different to deliberately operating a fraudulent scheme, although the end results may be similar for his partners and customers.

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East Bay, USA

LOL gamers trying to run businesses

 
   
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Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

Hello, there have been accusations regarding Defiance Games and it's business practices with outside contractors. I am not going to go into details here on Facebook as this is not the place for that sort of thing. I will be making a statement on this issue on our forums and in our next podcast.


Huh?

Facebook isn't the place but a forum and a podcast are?
   
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Sslimey Sslyth




Did the guy who took over Wargames Factory ever get the company back on it's footing, or did it just fold up due to financial pressures?

(Not familiar with the company name.)
   
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Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Wargames Factory is doing Amazing now under Wai Kee Hui! They're making Dreamforge, Secret Weapon Tablescapes, Malifaux, and many other companies' stuff...

Check out this thread showing a lot of their operation. This link is to a video I posted later in the thread, but the OP is definitely worth a read, as it chronicles legoburner (the techno-wizard who keeps Dakka running) on his trip to visit their factory

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/552663.page#6125449
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





IL

Wargames Factory has really exploded (in a good way) since the the change of ownership. They are making the products for Dream Forge and also Wyrd's Malifaux. Their quality is pretty amazing.

Kicking Tony Reidy out is the best thing that ever happened for the company and for gamers in general as they are providing a reliable cost effective way to get quality models done in plastic. Which never could have occured if they were still being dragged down by Reidy. Meanwhile under Reidy's control Defiance is still floundering around with productions issues and making poorly done products and can't launch a single product without major issues croppingup. He clearly places blame for all his failures on the Chinese partners, who seem to be working just just fine with everyone else.

Yeah Tony it's all their fault.

Paulson Games parts are now at:
www.RedDogMinis.com 
   
 
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