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I just don't find it that good anymore. It is at the very least limited with all the 8th edition magic from the rulebook which is super OP or even the boosted magic spells of army books. It's bad. 3 of the 6 spells in the plague magic section are 12" and one hurts your guys too, 1 is template or close combat range, one is a crappy vortex which can't even cross water features which I found out too late in one game and the final is a pretty good plague spell with 18". I'm not saying skaven magic is bad so much that it needs boosted versions for all their spells. I hate taking plague magic and waiting till i'm within melee range of an opponent to finally start using my plague spells and even then an enemy probably has bubble magic that allows them to boost a group of units in the same way I can boost just one which is also short ranged. Just some boosted spells is all I wish. Maybe even give us more ranged shooting boosts in the next army book. It would be appreciated if we got a boost to our BS or to wound with weapons or something like boosted range for our shooting weapons. Just please make skaven magic a bigger deal. Not to mention the skaven lores are pretty specific for what they help with. If you aren't going to punch the enemy in the face chances plague magic is not for you whereas it is if you have a bell unit and a furnace unit and more. Same thing goes with spells of ruin being long ranged and good against enemy shooting and flying under very specific circumstances or iniatiative. Generally if you face something lik dark elves cracks call becomes almost completely worthless whereas if you face beastmen it's just about as worthless to have howling warpgale. Skaven magic just feels situational and that's ok but it needs to be boosted somewhat.

So yeah I know other books are getting special treatment and some need it bad but other than dwarfs, wood elves and bretonnia most of the armies have been revised for 8th edition. Sadly skaven are a bit left behind but not too seriously yet and in ways it's starting to show. Beastmen have it even worse and an already bad book with terrible codex creep doesn't bode well for their army. Hopefully their monsters get some action in the future army books as I always wanted to see a ghorgon tear some hapless idiots apart.

I like how the thread starts to get derailed within the first post.

As for Skaven magic: I've given some thought to it, but Skaven magic doesn't really need a boost. It needs an update. A slight but important distinction.

The Lore of Ruin
Crackling Aura (Lore Attribute). Warlock Engineers become shrouded in dark bolts of lightening as they tap into the Winds of Magic, threatening to slay those near them before their incantations are even complete. Whenever a spell from the Lore of Ruin is successfully cast, a single unit within 8" takes D3 S5 hits. On the roll of a 1, however, the wizard's unit takes a S5 hit instead.

Warp Lightning (Signature Spell*)- Magic Missile
1. Skitterleap- As-is
2. Howling Warpgale- As-is
3. Death Frenzy- Augment. Grants regular Frenzy to non-Frenzied units, and Death Frenzy on Frenzied ones. Can be boosted to affect all units within range on an 18+.
4. Scorch- Direct Damage. Can increase range to 36" on a 13+.
5. Scurryswarm- Unique. 10+. After squeaking the words of power, the caster urges his fellow Skaven onwards, filling them with hunger and malice.
A friendly, non-fleeing unit within 24" may make a single move (not a march or a charge). Each model in the target unit must make a Dangerous Terrain test.
The wizard may choose to cast a more powerful version of the spell, allowing the target unit to march or charge, or to target a fleeing unit, allowing it to instantly rally reform. If the caster does so, the spell's casting value increases to a 15+.
6. Crack's Call- Direct Damage. Can increase range to 8d6" on a 22+.

The Lore of Plague
Pox-born Vitality (Lore Attribute) Skaven who draw from the powers of Plague burn with unholy fever and are riddled with weeping sores. But such are signs of favor, making these wizards almost immune to pain.
Each time a wizard successfully casts a spell from the Lore of Plague, they gain +1T until the beginning of the caster's next magic phase.

Pestilent Breath (Signature Spell*)- Direct Damage. The caster gains a breath weapon that is resolved at S2, with no armour saves allowed, which may be used in a subsequent shooting phase. If the Skaven successfully casts this spell again before they have used their breath weapon, it is resolved at +1S.
1. Bless With Filth- Augment. Can affect all friendly units within range on a 14+.
2. Wither- Hex. Can boost range to 24" on a 12+.
3. Vermintide- Unique. Summons D3 Rat Swarms anywhere within 1" of the caster. May summon D6+1 Rat Swarms on a 16+.
4. Corpulent Hide- Augment. 10+. Remains in play. Sprinkling his followers with a foul tincture, the wizard infects those around him, slaying the weak and making the faithful strong.
The caster grants one friendly unit within 12" the Regeneration (5+) special rule, or improves the unit's Regeneration save by 1. The target then suffers 2D6 wounds. If the target is a unit made up only of Plague Priests, Plague Furnaces, Plague Monks, and/or Plague Censer Bearers, the unit only suffers D6 wounds.
The wizard may choose to affect all units within 12". If he does so, the casting value increases to a 20+.
5. Cloud of Corruption- Direct Damage. Can increase range to 18" and hits inflicted to 2D6 on a 22+.
6. Plague- Direct Damage. Can increase range to 27" on an 18+.

*Grey Seers know either Skitterleap or the Curse of the Horned Rat as their signature spell. Vermin Lords know the Curse of the Horned Rat as their signature spell.

Your examples seem pretty good and are what i'd like to see. This is what I meant actually. The magic just needs boosted versions of what it has in return for a higher casting value. I'd even be fine if I could get some boosted range alone on the plague spells. That's mostly all I want. Just to not have crappy range with those spells all the time. I was also thinking 'scorch' could use small to large blast template though most likely still strength 4 as strength 5 would be really strong.

Do you think 'the 13th spell' should only be known to the vermin lord or both grey seers and vermin lords. I say this because the vermin lord should be a better caster.

I also think the vermin lord should get a sort of form of daemonic gifts and similar that might help casting a bit but that'd go too far off topic.

Yeah, boosted ranges and such are a nice option. They're not especially over-powered; doubling Wither's range for a 50% casting value increase means you can use it a turn earlier, but that a lvl2 Plague Priest is going to need to throw 3 or more dice at it. Even a Grey Seer'll need 3 dice to attempt it safely.

With Scorch, to go from a small template to a large template would be far too potent. The only spells that do that are magical vortexes; they've got a chance to wander off target and misfire. Scorch is 100% accurate.
And S5? That's a re-usable Doomrocket. Even with a small template, that's too much.

Vermin Lords should not be better casters. I get what you're saying, what with them being physical manifestations of magic, cunning, and betrayal, but look at every other army book:
Slaan Mage Priests aren't really better casters than other wizards, and they're the ones who taught everyone else how to do it.
Daemons of Tzeentch aren't inherently better casters, either. And if anyone should be, it's these guys.

Vermin Lords should be no better than Greater Daemons, or maybe even Daemon Princes. They should just start cheaper, and have upgrades to get them to what they currently are, and maybe have a little versatility. Oh, and be the General.

Here's an idea for the Attribute to the Lore of Ruin:

- you may choose to add +D3 to the result. If you roll a 1, the caster suffers a wound on a 4+, with no armour saves allowed. A sort of Warpstone Token thing. Thoughts?

Not bad and probably makes sense. I'm not entirely sure what to make of a spells of ruin lore attribute. On one hand it's sneaky but in others it's about destruction and warp lightning whereas in others it's got more viciousness at the cost of life being cheap. Also at least 2 of the spells have to do with storms and more are about well ruin.

Perhaps we turn skitterleap into the lore attribute? However that might be too powerful. We could also turn it into a weaker version of skitterleap. It'd be like the 'smoke and mirrors' lore attribute for lore of shadow I think. Perhaps it can give one unit in a certain range hatred till the next turn? That still sounds too strong though. How about one character within range gets hatred or for a turn?

Skaven spells are fine - borderline broken, the only real issues with them is lack of types, I do like the changes you guys have made so far as it stops things like cracks call going through combat etc

@flamingkillamajig: Skitterleap as a Lore Attribute would be too much like Smoke and Mirrors.
Where's this Hatred thing coming from? And yes, it's too good. There's a reason the Banner of Burning Hatred was on every Plague Monk unit ever in our last book.

@Formosa: how are the Skaven spells even remotely broken? I seriously can't see any of them being all that amazing.
I'm not saying they're bad, of course. They're good. They're just outdated and don't mesh well into the game.