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Blackguard
M 5 - WS 5 - BS 0 - S 4 (4) - T 4 - I 5 - A 2 - LD 9
Stubborn
same as current

Warrior Elite (Perma Hatred)
same as current

Scent of Blood
If Blackguard have won the previous combat round, then:

Blackguard gain the Armor Piercing Special Rule through the end of the next round of combat. If they are affected by Armor Piercing, then:
Blackguard gain an extra rank of supporting attacks through the end of the next round of combat.

Phalanx
If Blackguard have lost the previous combat round, then:

Blackguard gain the Scaley Skin (6+) Special Rule through the end of the next round of combat. If they are affected by Scaley Skin, then:
All dice rolls to wound of 6 against the Blackguard need to be re-rolled through the end of the next round of combat. This excludes any rolls of 6 that result in Killing Blow and/or Heroic Killing Blow.


The idea is to make Blackguard more viable without attempting to compete directly against Executioners. Executioners are the shock troops that deliver a crushing blow, whereas Blackguard are the fearsome anvil that are deadlier the longer you combat them (without making them broken or stupid-good). Thoughts?

Black Guard don't need changing as they don't compete with executioners.

They have completely different targets. Executioners are the book's answer to Monstrous Cav. Whereas Dark Elves are the book's answer to other elves and infantry.

But like with most things, focusing too much on one, will leave your army weaker. Although the executioners can still fight infantry and elves to an extent,

Black Guard are doing just fine. They can't dish out the same damage that Executioners can, but they last a lot longer, and are much harder to counter.

-1 to enemy armour and +1 to your armour would cost the same, around +1pt/model.

An extra rank of WS5 ASF perma-Hatred supporting attacks is way better than Armour Piercing, especially on a unit that will probably have the Razor Standard.
Re-rolling 6's to wound is...hard to judge how expensive it is.
For both of these, why not just say "if they have this rule, they improve it by 1"?

But like I said. They're fine. They're all-around great, instead of being awesome at one thing and folding like a pack of cards when it comes to others.

Why are they T4? No other elf in the game is T4 with the exception of Malekith if memory serves. And despite how irrelevant it is what point is there to making them BS0?
And reduced I?

BG simply don't need to be changed.

Whoa, didn't even notice T4. Yeah, no way.

The only thing I would have conceded was that Black Guard would have been snazzy with sea dragon cloaks... making them 3+ armor in combat..

It would have made them ridiculously hard to break, but would have given them a more definitive anvil role

Again, I think Black Guard are fine as is, really. Perhaps though, a boost to WS6 would be cool as well as some sort of benefit if joined by Malekith/Dreadlord, or perhaps just if Malekith was on the board.

They should definitely be Unbreakable with Malekith, but otherwise they are quite fine indeed
As soon as you give them an important upgrade (+1/2 AS, +1T, +1S), they become grossly overpowered. WS6 might be OK, but I believe it should be the realm of Swordmasters and Chosen

TanKoL wrote:
They should definitely be Unbreakable with Malekith, but otherwise they are quite fine indeed
As soon as you give them an important upgrade (+1/2 AS, +1T, +1S), they become grossly overpowered. WS6 might be OK, but I believe it should be the realm of Swordmasters and Chosen

They're Unbreakable with Kouran. Which is more fluffy, as he is the guy who murders them into shape. They protect Malekith, they fight for Kouran.

Also, remember that Dark Elves already have an awesome WS6 combat unit, in the form of Sisters of Slaughter.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Black Guard don't need changing as they don't compete with executioners.

They have completely different targets. Executioners are the book's answer to Monstrous Cav. Whereas Dark Elves are the book's answer to other elves and infantry.

But like with most things, focusing too much on one, will leave your army weaker. Although the executioners can still fight infantry and elves to an extent,

Black Guard kill other elves, and that's about it. Executioners edge out against infantry as well.
2 ranks of black guard vs saurus
15 attacks with re-rolls to hit, re-rolling 1's to wound (8/9 hits, 7/12 wound, 6+ armor save, 6+ parry save) = 5.4 kills
Executioners
10 attacks, hits 4/6, wounds 35/36, 6+ parry. = 5.4 kills.
Black Guard are paying 3 points more per model, and 45 points on a banner; without the banner, they drop to 4.4 kills, and still cost more.

Against most targets that black guard do well against, executioners do as well or better, and give you the flexibility to fight heavy armor, and threaten characters with a KB.
If I was worried about enemies striking ahead of the init 5 black guard, I'd just throw witches, chariots, or cold one knights at them.

Of course, if you're losing combat, Black Guard are awesome.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Black Guard don't need changing as they don't compete with executioners.

They have completely different targets. Executioners are the book's answer to Monstrous Cav. Whereas Dark Elves are the book's answer to other elves and infantry.

But like with most things, focusing too much on one, will leave your army weaker. Although the executioners can still fight infantry and elves to an extent,

Black Guard kill other elves, and that's about it. Executioners edge out against infantry as well.
2 ranks of black guard vs saurus
15 attacks with re-rolls to hit, re-rolling 1's to wound (8/9 hits, 7/12 wound, 6+ armor save, 6+ parry save) = 5.4 kills
Executioners
10 attacks, hits 4/6, wounds 35/36, 6+ parry. = 5.4 kills.
Black Guard are paying 3 points more per model, and 45 points on a banner; without the banner, they drop to 4.4 kills, and still cost more.

Against most targets that black guard do well against, executioners do as well or better, and give you the flexibility to fight heavy armor, and threaten characters with a KB.
If I was worried about enemies striking ahead of the init 5 black guard, I'd just throw witches, chariots, or cold one knights at them.

Of course, if you're losing combat, Black Guard are awesome.

The two units serve different roles. Black Guard are there to hold things AND kill them, whereas executioners are a pure smash unit. And where the overlap between their targets occurs, executioners are better, where black guard excel is either against high armour, low model units and stuff like elves and skaven.