5th Ed Rumors: Round 4

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**DrakEldarsGuy**

adamsouza wrote:So now all blast weapons just scatter a d6 and don't require a to hit roll.....

Vanilla change for me. I liked guessing, it was fun, but like IntoTheRain said it wasn't really guessing once you got good at it.

The new way should be faster, and alot better for people who never got the knack of guessing range.

No, guys, I've got the 5th ed. PDF right in front of me, there's no change to the blast weapon rulings.

**JohnHwangDD**

I think you don't have the same PDF as the rest of us.

**Kriszilla**

Okay, I've been away from the GW community for some time, but they're making a new edition of 40k already!?

They've only just released the Orks codex and Apocalypse and now they're readying to make a transition to a new edition and bring out new codexes?!

**wuestenfux**

They make a transition to the 5th ed, and codices for IG, DE, and Necrons (end of 2009?) are on the way.
At the same time, GW will bring a new expansion of 40, Planetstrike, with plastic drop pods...

**Kriszilla**

That's all well and good, but what's the point of having only recently released all this new stuff and then suddenly deciding to switch to a new edition where it will all become outdated?

**wuestenfux**

Here is a post from Cuda at Warseer:

What I like about the rumors:
1. Blast weapons getting better again
2. A single chart for vehicle damage
3. Even vehicles getting cover saves
4. Being able to run away from combat
5. Transports aren't total death traps
6. Faster, easier combat resolution
7. The option to run
8. Failing a psychic test is an auto-wound.
9. "get's hot" is only on a role of 1. That Ork character was more likely to kill himself than the enemy.

What I don't like:
1. Vehicles seem to loose out on offensive capabilities. Being able to move a vehicle and fire a lot of weapons is great in 4th edition.
2. Only TROOPS can capture objectives. (Why can't a guy with identical stats take an objective when he is simply an elite?)
3. If troops can run now, what is the point of a transport
4. Fast vehicles only moving 18 inches.
5. Everything blocking line of sight, even friendly units. (this might still be okay if you can simply take a target priority test to get around it.)
6. Removing area terrain. No more hiding indirect fire units.

In fact, the Eldar codex will be outdated after the release of this rule set.
Why the pt increase of the Tornados in the DA and BA codices when they will nerf skimmers.

**Kilkrazy**

Technically all the codexes will be outdated.

Some armies don't even have 4th edition codexes yet.

**Schepp himself**

Kilkrazy wrote:Technically all the codexes will be outdated.

Some armies don't even have 4th edition codexes yet.

True, but that doesn't mean anything.
All the newer codecies work fine with the changes, especially the Ork one.

Greets
Schepp himself

**Kilkrazy**

Basically they will work though it is unlikely the points costs have been balanced for the 5th edition rules changes.

**corinth**

it seems to me that dark angels was the first codex written with 5th edition in mind.

they probably don't want to have to redo eldar anytime soon though, so they're balancing skimmers with core rules changes. not ideal imo, but it could work out.

**JohnHwangDD**

Actually, I'd expect Eldar to be redone fairly soon in 5th Edition, even if GW is planning on a standalone Craftworld book following the SM (also CSM). Eldar get a book for every new Edition.

**skullspliter888**

Now i haven't read the eldar dex but didn't it come out around the same time as DA? if so maybe the dex was made for 5th imo

**adamsouza**

Kilkrazy wrote:Basically they will work though it is unlikely the points costs have been balanced for the 5th edition rules changes.

Actually, I'd wager part of the reason the batte reports and White Dwarf have become less detailed is that they have been using the 5th edition rules for at least the past 6 months if not the better part of the last year. It would pure idiocy on their part not to balance the new books with the new edition due out later this year.

**JohnHwangDD**

I see the Eldar book as kind of a prototype for the new-style Codices. They streamlined the army list, tried to fold things together. They did a decent enough job, though Biel-Tan got hit pretty hard compared to the other Craftworlds.

But the approach and result of C: Eldar wasn't nearly as refined as the DA book, much less CSM and Orks. The designers have clearly hit their stride with the CSM and Ork books.

**Schepp himself**

I think the Eldar codex should be the ideal of codex making for GW in 5th. Imo, it doesn't take a serious blow with all these changes and almost all choices are still viable. Never change a running system, i say.

Greets
Schepp himself

**Frazzled**

JohnHwangDD wrote:I see the Eldar book as kind of a prototype for the new-style Codices. They streamlined the army list, tried to fold things together. They did a decent enough job, though Biel-Tan got hit pretty hard compared to the other Craftworlds.

But the approach and result of C: Eldar wasn't nearly as refined as the DA book, much less CSM and Orks. The designers have clearly hit their stride with the CSM and Ork books.

You say that like its a good thing.

**Alpharius**

jfrazell wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:I see the Eldar book as kind of a prototype for the new-style Codices. They streamlined the army list, tried to fold things together. They did a decent enough job, though Biel-Tan got hit pretty hard compared to the other Craftworlds.

But the approach and result of C: Eldar wasn't nearly as refined as the DA book, much less CSM and Orks. The designers have clearly hit their stride with the CSM and Ork books.

You say that like its a good thing.

Ha! Good point!

It is safe to say that the designers were clearly hitting something before and possibly during the CSM and Ork Codex design process...

**uatu13**

Eldar, especially skimmers are so incredibly screwed with the new codex. Armies like Orks, who used to have problems with mobility, are nasty as hell. Even worse is huge ork mobs can now allocate wounds to locked models so that the engaged ones can still get all their attacks! Very nasty...

I definitely have to say I think the LOS rule will really mess up the flow of most games. I expect to see a decent number of arguements over what can be seen and what can't. I think it's also sad to see area terrain go, it was basically the only type of terrain that we used at my gaming store and made for much more interesting games. It's good to see that transports aren't horrible death-piles any more at least.

**Reaver83**

I think the loss of area terrain will be ver detrimental to game pla, having dead space stops people just sitting back and shooting with lots of long range guns.

Also running can be very abused, from what i understand it takes the place of a shooting attack, (a bit like fleet now) what's to to stop transport X with 10 people in moving 12 inches, deploing two and then having the gus run D6 in the shooting phase? Seriously abusable

**H.B.M.C.**

JohnHwangDD wrote:Actually, I'd expect Eldar to be redone fairly soon in 5th Edition...

You're mad John. Do you know that?

They were just re-done. They're not going to be on the re-do cycle for quite some time. Daemons, Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, Necrons, then probably Guard or Marines, and then the opposite of whatever. This takes us through to 2010 at least. Eldar had to wait 8 years or so for their new Codex, Orks even longer. Do you really thing that a year or so after its release they're going to do another one? Have you looked at GW's track record at all?

Furthermore, they're a miniature company. What shiny new Eldar models have they got to release for us? Models don't accompany a new Codex release, a Codex accompanies a new model release. That's the way it works with GW, and I very much doubt they'll be able to justify re-doing an entire Codex just so they have an excuse to release the new plastic Jetbike we saw a while back.

BYE

**H.B.M.C.**

Reaver83 wrote:...what's to to stop transport X with 10 people in moving 12 inches, deploing two and then having the gus run D6 in the shooting phase? Seriously abusable

Umm... maybe the rules?

It's really stupid to claim that 5th Ed can be abused when we haven't seen it yet. By all means, complain about the rumours, especially the one about Defensive S4 weapons, but please don't make huge leaps of logic about what's going to be abused and what's not.

BYE

**dietrich**

Don't expect Eldar until about 2012. While GW is supposedly (as Joey would say) moving everything into some sort of schedule, based on release schedules and number of armies/codeci, I would expect it's about 5 years before Eldar get a new Codex.

**Terminizzle**

dietrich wrote:Don't expect Eldar until about 2012. While GW is supposedly (as Joey would say) moving everything into some sort of schedule, based on release schedules and number of armies/codeci, I would expect it's about 5 years before Eldar get a new Codex.

Just because a codex came out before 5th edition does not meant it wasn't designed to be compatible with 5th edition.

**Toreador**

Just because skimmers have been brought down in power to where all the other vehicles are, doesn't mean they are "screwed". They still have incredible mobility and get cover dashing across the open ground.

A lot is going to change, and you aren't going to see 3 falcon lists dominating anymore. Orks are going to be tough no matter what the rules are in the new book. They are very competitive.

**stonefox**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Reaver83 wrote:...what's to to stop transport X with 10 people in moving 12 inches, deploing two and then having the gus run D6 in the shooting phase? Seriously abusable

Umm... maybe the rules?

It's really stupid to claim that 5th Ed can be abused when we haven't seen it yet. By all means, complain about the rumours, especially the one about Defensive S4 weapons, but please don't make huge leaps of logic about what's going to be abused and what's not.

BYE

Uh, I thought everyone was assuming the 5th ed rules will be what's written in the pdf. If its not, of course the units that can be abused will change. But according to this pdf, you can safely say that horde armies are making a comeback and you can run out of a rhino. Its not a huge leap of logic to imagine this.

**Toreador**

I would doubt the final edition is going to be what is in the Doc. Many people have stated that this was one of the first platest docs that came out early last summer. There have been other docs since then, and some have quite a few differences.

**JohnHwangDD**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:Actually, I'd expect Eldar to be redone fairly soon in 5th Edition...

You're mad John. Do you know that?

Did you know that your habit of taking pot shots is irritating?

They were just re-done. They're not going to be on the re-do cycle for quite some time.

The Eldar get a new book for every edition. That is a fact that I do not see changing.

What shiny new Eldar models have they got to release for us?

Warp Spiders, Wraithguard, Jetbike, Vyper are all getting long in the tooth. Plus we always get a new Farseer and a couple new Warlocks with each edition. And the plastic Guardians could definitely use a refresh and rescale.

**Crimson Devil**

I don't see how you can think that John. GW's track record proves that only Marines get a new codex with each edition. Everybody else counts as a definite maybe. The Eldar may get a 5th edition codex, but it won't happen for many years. Most likely right before 6th ed is released.

**Asmodai**

I think the current book is released with at least the basics of 5th edition in mind, so it will count as Eldar's 5th ed. Codex.

Guard, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar are all in much more pressing need of editing.

All Eldar need for 5th is a drop in the cost of Falcons and Fire Prisms.

**dienekes96**

Crimson Devil wrote:I don't see how you can think that John. GW's track record proves that only Marines get a new codex with each edition. Everybody else counts as a definite maybe. The Eldar may get a 5th edition codex, but it won't happen for many years. Most likely right before 6th ed is released.

Chaos ALWAYS gets a release ( atleast one) as well.

RT:
SM) Compendium had some Marine stuff
CSM) Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness
CSM) Realm of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned

2nd:
Ultramarines (close enough)
Chaos (BIG)
(Bonus: Space Wolves, Angels of Death[DA/BA])

3rd:
Space Marine pamphlet (seriously, I've read footnotes longer than that)
Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Space Marines 3.5
(Bonus: BA pamphlet, DA pamphlet, DA pamphlet revised, Armageddon [BT/Sallies])

4th:
Space Marines
Chaos Space Marines (Renegades)
(Bonus: Black Templars, Dark Angels)

5th:
SM) ?...though the big rumor is a new SM Codex, which will probably simply be revised
CSM) ?...The CSM (Renegades) was done with thoughts towards the new edition, and maybe the Legions will get something.

So for those that think it's Marine-centric now...look at 3rd edition.