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Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




I'm looking for advice regarding an 1850 pt. list I put together. I received a large amount of units (next to no vehicles) and the predator from a friend who quit playing, which has allowed me to put together a 1000 point list pretty easy (Although with very little heavy support and next to no fast attack, it was of poor construction), however my friends and I are trying to get 1850 pt. lists together so we know what we have to aim to purchase.

HQ:
Sorcerer w/
Mastery Level 3
Terminator Armour
Combi-Melta
Force Staff
Mark of Tzeentch
Gift of Mutation
Sigil of Corruption
Spell Familiar
Total - 207

Troops:

10x Chaos Space Marines w/
1x Plasma Gun
Total - 155

10x Chaos Space Marines
Total - 140

10x Cultists
Total - 50

Elites:

5x Terminators w/
1x Powerfist
1x Chainfist
1x Combi-Melta
1x Combi-Flamer
2x Power Axe
1x Power Maul
1x Reaper Autocannon
5x Mark of Tzeentch
Total - 236

5x Terminators w/
1x Powerfist
1x Chainfist
1x Combi-Melta
2x Power Axe
1x Power Maul
1x Reaper Autocannon
5x Mark of Tzeentch
Total - 231

Fast Attack:

Heldrake w/
Baleflamer
Total - 170

Heldrake w/
Baleflamer
Total - 170

Heavy Support:

3x Obliterators w/
Total - 210

Maulerfiend w/
2x Lasher Tendrils
Total - 135

Predator w/
2x Lascannons
1x Twin-Linked Lascannon
1x Combi-Bolter
Total - 145

Total - 1849

I like the looks of the Maulerfiend and the Heldrakes, however i'm concerned that there is an area i'm lacking in. Mostly i'm after advice as to whether my list contains anything that is usually considered a waste of points, or if there are any areas (such as vehicle killing) i'm lacking in and need to strengthen.

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
   
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Made in us
Been Around the Block




Dallas, TX

A few suggestions.

Obliterations are great, but need mark of nurgle and veterans of long war in units of three. They are two wounds each, but only T4. So, if you get hit with Str8 or higher weapon, they will die instantly, meaning their 2nd wound is going to waste. Mark of nurgle raises them to T5, making it far less likely for that to happen. They are low on leadership too, and if one dies, you don't want the other two running away. VoLW will +1 to leadership, helping avoid this. They are key units and need to stay in the fight for you.

Your CSM squads need 2 special weapons. I recommend plasma guns, but lascannons or melts work too. I would maybe do one unit with melta and one with plasma.

With mark of tzeentch on sorc, I would drop one termite unit in favor of a nose marine squad. They have weapons that ignore cover, which you need against gun line armies like tau. It will be a scoring unit for you due to MoT, bringing you up to 4, needed at this point level.

You can free up,some points by dropping GoM and familiar on sorc if need be. Maybe one rhino for getting a CSM squad to midfield fast and then using it for mobile cover.

I know you are working with what you have on hand, but termites are expensive non-scoring units in this codex edition.

Your big lack is high Str, low AP weapons I think. Get those CSM squads some better weapons and keep your oblits in fight.

A few more places to shave points would be MoT on terminators and combi-bolster on predator.

Good luck,
-Aeglos


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, realized after I posted above that I was mixing MoT and MoS for the noise marine as scoring unit. You can still do noise marines, or plague marines as elite choices that are better point efficiency than terminators, but neither would be scoring. Another squad of CSM may be a better choice. Again,, maximize special weapons where you can, so take two and maybe a pistol or combi weapon on champion too.

-Aeglos

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/15 05:16:30


 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




@ Aeglos: Ok, so i took your advice on almost everything, really appreciated btw, and i made a new list, as you can tell i'm still missing some units as i haven't decided what i should go with... this is what i got now:

HQ:
Sorcerer w/
Mastery Level 3
Terminator Armour
Combi-Melta
Force Staff
Mark of Tzeentch
Sigil of Corruption
Total - 182

Troops:

10x Chaos Space Marines w/
1x Plasma Gun
1x Lascannon
Rhino
Total - 210

10x Chaos Space Marines w/
2x Meltagun
Rhino
Total - 195

10x Cultists
Total - 50

Elites:

5x Terminators w/
1x Powerfist
1x Chainfist
1x Combi-Melta
2x Power Axe
1x Power Maul
1x Reaper Autocannon
Total - 206

Fast Attack:

Heldrake w/
Baleflamer
Total - 170

Heldrake w/
Baleflamer
Total - 170

Heavy Support:

3x Obliterators w/
3x Mark of Nurgle
3x Veterens of the Long War
Total - 237

Maulerfiend w/
2x Lasher Tendrils
Total - 135

Predator w/
2x Lascannons
1x Twin-Linked Lascannon
Total - 140

Total - 1695

My only questions though, are: Are the Noise Marines absolutely essential? It's just i'm not really a fan of them, and i figured that the Baledrakes and the Obliterators taking Plasma Cannons during their first shooting phase would be enough to take out gunlines? But if they are essential, i will include them, and assuming they are not, any suggestions on a replacement unit? Maybe drop the cultists and add a third Heldrake? And lastly is the maulerfiend a plausable addition to the list? I just don't see them run very often, but i love the look of them and i figure that they have to be good considering their small points cost.
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential




Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology

Didnt read the other post but my suggestions..

squads should always double up on special weapons when they can. You can never go wrong with 2 plasma guns, but other pairs work just as well if you know what you're doing.

Unless you're using them as an escort, terminators in the chaos codex have proven most effective as suicide units that are cheap and have a specific goal in mind. Take 3 with combi-meltas and chain fists and blow up a tank, take 5 with powermauls, 4 combi-flamers and 1 with a heavy flamer and decimate a horde's front line. Take 5 with combi plasmas and power axes and kill a TeQ squad, but beware, this will not stand up against a SS/Hammer termie squad, especially if it has their HQ in it.

I haven't heard lasher tendrils to be too effective.

"I am sorry, my brothers. Now we begin again." 1200 Points of The Prodigal Sons 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




@changerofways

Thank you for the advice. I changed my space marine squads to have 2x plasmaguns and 2x meltas respectivly. And regarding the Terminator squad i have heard other people also say that they work really well as suicide squads, but how do you think my versatile squad would go in those situations, because i was planning to stick my sorcerer in with them and use him to keep them alive, so that they could be used to take out a variety of units behind the enemy lines, although i'm hoping that my heldrakes + Oblits would have taken out most of the gunlines by the time i quit failing my DS although this assumes that they don't actually come across an opponents Terminators, which i'll try to avoid if at all possible. And yeah, i really am not a fan of the Lasher Tendrils either, i only went with them because after all my research into them i found one person who talked about the effectiveness of his Maulerfiend with Lasher Tendrils, but i personally prefer the Magma Cutters, so i'll take your advice there as well and swap them out.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Dallas, TX

Giglamesh wrote:
@ Aeglos: Ok, so i took your advice on almost everything, really appreciated btw, and i made a new list, as you can tell i'm still missing some units as i haven't decided what i should go with... this is what i got now:



My only questions though, are: Are the Noise Marines absolutely essential? It's just i'm not really a fan of them, and i figured that the Baledrakes and the Obliterators taking Plasma Cannons during their first shooting phase would be enough to take out gunlines? But if they are essential, i will include them, and assuming they are not, any suggestions on a replacement unit? Maybe drop the cultists and add a third Heldrake? And lastly is the maulerfiend a plausable addition to the list? I just don't see them run very often, but i love the look of them and i figure that they have to be good considering their small points cost.


Absolutely essential? No, there are other options. A few more comments:

Baledrakes: Absolutely the best unit in the codex, and I don't think you are being "spammy" taking 2 at a 1850 point level. They are great at taking out 3+ or weaker troops and most gunlines. BUT, they must start in reserve. Statistically, one will come in on turn 2 and the other on turn 3. That means you have a delay in when this firepower is available.

Obliterators: Plasma cannons are good against gunlines, but assault cannons may be a better choice if the opponent has spread his troops out to the maximum amount (which they will if they are smart!). Plasma cannons have the range advantage, so that is also a big consideration. Remember that all oblits in the unit must fire the same weapon that turn, and then cannot use that weapon the 2nd turn. Usually, this means that I'm firing lascannons the first turn, with 48" range to try and pop armor or monsterous creatures. Then, depending on deployment and movement, switching to either plasma cannons at 36" or assault cannons as 24" range. So, you may not be in range in turn 1 for a plasma cannon blast to a gunline.

Plague marines are very good units. Tough, fearless, and with both 3+ and FNP saves, difficult to kill. Defensive grenades give them shrouded for units within 8" and also eliminate enemy charge attacks. So, they are probably the best unit in the 'dex for taking and holding midfield objectives. Put them in a rhino and move flat-out in turn 1. Pop smoke to help protect the rhino from explosion (first blood) and then disembark and rush/sieze an objective. Plague marines can also take 2x special weapons in a squad of 5, and the sgt. can also take a combi-weapon. So you can do combi-plasma (or plasma pistol) and 2x plasma to get yourself a tough unit with a high strength, low AP weapon in the middle of the board.

Raptors are good units as well. Again, they can take 2x special weapons, and with the jump packs they can move fast. They are not nearly as tough as plague marines, though, and have a tendancy to break once they take damage. VotLW can help here.

So, there are other options. Spawn get great reviews on Dakka. I've never used them, but can see how they would be good and if you can get them into a gunline they will wreak havoc.

Good luck,
-Aeglos
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Thank you Aeglos again for the advice i'll definitely consider the Plague Marines in my 1850 point army, but after further discussion with my mates, it seems we are just gonna focus on 1500 points for now, so i might drop the cultists and the Maulerfiend, which with be roughly 1500. I'll save the 1850 point list for when i have access to more money and more units in my collection.
   
Made in gb
Morphing Obliterator






It seems like you have been given some good advice here but I would like to make a couple of points:

1. Not sure if the combi melta on the sorceror is worth it. He is only bs4, it costs more for him than a termi unit, and being tzeentch should have at least one witchfire power that he can't use if he fires the combi.

2. I have never used a maulerfiend myself, but I have heard that lasher tendrils are considered better than magma cutters. With the magmas you have to hit with all your attacks to get an effect, which with WS 3 is unlikely. However the lasher tendrils will always reduce enemy attacks, and help to keep the mauler alive in cc for longer.

Eldar - Craftworld Idrennath 4500pts

Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors just started!

 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




@Rohan

Hey, thank you for your advice. Regarding the Sorc what i was thinking when i took it was that i would roll on the Tzeentch powers list and take the firestorm which, although i have never actually playtested yet, looks like it would mop up a unit (Although some clarification on that would be most helpful, lol.), and use the rest of the powers to blessings to help my terminators, in which case i would not be able to have a strong vehicle killing power, so i thought that the Melta would be useful when using the squad to mop up vehicles. And regarding the Maulerfiend, about an hour ago i did a couple of simulations and i definatly did find that the magma cutters wernt that great, so i might actually go with the Lasher, assuming i don't just omit the Mauler entirely.
   
 
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