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So with the coming of Imperial Knight Titans do you think there will be Eldar Knight Titans? I have a pair of old armorcast ones that would be awesome to run. I have some custom rules for it but i dont get to see it played very often (due to the it not being official GW rules). Also please feel free to review the rules on it that i have.

Yep, they're called WraithKNIGHTS and they already exist in the codex.

what yakface said

Its all true, GW even stated so in WDW #5.

SJ

Ummm wraithknights are a bit different then Towering Destroyers. Structure Points, Armor Value, Titan Walker rule set. Before you comment make sure you know what you are talking about. In Warhammer 40k Epic there were Towering Destroyers (Eldar Knight Titans) as well as a couple of other Titans that you may not know about. So before you try and ridicule someone at least know what you're talking about.

 Xerics wrote:
Ummm wraithknights are a bit different then Towering Destroyers. Structure Points, Armor Value, Titan Walker rule set. Before you comment make sure you know what you are talking about. In Warhammer 40k Epic there were Towering Destroyers (Eldar Knight Titans) as well as a couple of other Titans that you may not know about. So before you try and ridicule someone at least know what you're talking about.

I know quite well of what I speak.

There is the assumption that everything written in the past by GW is set in stone for some reason, even though GW has shown a complete propensity to morph the background as they see fit to make things match the new ideas and aesthetics they come up with (as is their right).

The Wraithknight is the updated version of the Eldar Knight (the Fire Gale Knight). Are there other Eldar Knight designs they could eventually get around to making? Of course, but the Wraithknight is probably the only one you'll see for the foreseeable future, and if you're looking to use an old Armorcast Eldar Knight model, then you'd just use the Wraithknight stats.

I don't feel like the wraithknight is the old Fire Gale Knight. When you compare the new Imperial Knight to the wraithknight there is a huge difference. The wraithknight may be taller in stature but the Imperial Knight has a D weapon, Structure points, and armor value (none of which the Wraithknight has). The wraithknight is simply another HS just like the Riptide.

Also when did GW say that the Wraithknight is the old Fire Gale Knight? I never heard anything saying as such?

I doubt very much GW releases anything so similar to the Wraithknight in the near or even relatively distant future...

 Xerics wrote:
I don't feel like the wraithknight is the old Fire Gale Knight. When you compare the new Imperial Knight to the wraithknight there is a huge difference. The wraithknight may be taller in stature but the Imperial Knight has a D weapon, Structure points, and armor value (none of which the Wraithknight has). The wraithknight is simply another HS just like the Riptide.

Also when did GW say that the Wraithknight is the old Fire Gale Knight? I never heard anything saying as such?

That's exactly the difference you see between a Dreadnought and a Wraithlord. Both are the equivalents, but they have their rules behave differently to make them feel distinct.

GW didn't say that a Wraithknight is an update of the Fire Gale Knight, but a wraith knight is clearly an Eldar Knight (hence the name), so it makes sense that they looked at their existing Eldar knight designs and looked at ways to update them to a modern feel, the same thing they did with the Imperial Knights.


So your original question was, do you think there will be Eldar Knights? The answer is: the Wraithknight is GW's answer to an Eldar Knight. They will not be making another one anytime soon. So since that is the case, if you are wanting to use an Armorcast Eldar Knight, it only makes sense to use the rules GW has already put out for an Eldar Knight in the core game.

Except that just because Wraithknight Has knight in its name doesnt make it a Knight Titan. the WraithKnight is not a titan. The Imperial Knight is a titan. Only Titans have D weapons. The Imperial Knight doesnt take up an FOC slow where as the Wraithknight does.

Space marines already got their new units in their codex. and now they get the new imperial Knights too? I think you are misjudging GW. if they are pumping out more stuff for the Imperium of man I don't see why they wouldnt do it for the other races to even the playing field a bit. With 6 structure points that would classify it as a small titan. 13 armor in the front and 12 on the sides its already more powerful than a land raider + the knight gets an invulnerable save in one direction per turn, and has a D weapon to crack open just about anything else on the table.

Now you might try and argue that the heavy wraith cannon has instant death ruling but its only on 6's wheras the D weapon just has to hit. If i roll a 1 to wound with a heavy wraithcannon it doesnt do anything. With a D weapon like the Imperial Knight has it just cracks open any non superheavy in the game.

Like it or not the Wraithknight is not the Eldar Knight Titan regardless of what the name says. Its just a name and until GW comes out and says that the wraithknight is a knight titan I will continue to play the Towering Destroyer as a Towering Destroyer (in games I am able to put it on the table)

So, who's stopping you from playing it how you want? Hell, put a cheese grater on the thing if you want and use it to make nachos. You could send an email to GW asking them about this if you're really that interested because the only answers you'll find here are based purely on speculation.

 Xerics wrote:
Except that just because Wraithknight Has knight in its name doesnt make it a Knight Titan. the WraithKnight is not a titan. The Imperial Knight is a titan. Only Titans have D weapons. The Imperial Knight doesnt take up an FOC slow where as the Wraithknight does.

Space marines already got their new units in their codex. and now they get the new imperial Knights too? I think you are misjudging GW. if they are pumping out more stuff for the Imperium of man I don't see why they wouldnt do it for the other races to even the playing field a bit. With 6 structure points that would classify it as a small titan. 13 armor in the front and 12 on the sides its already more powerful than a land raider + the knight gets an invulnerable save in one direction per turn, and has a D weapon to crack open just about anything else on the table.

Now you might try and argue that the heavy wraith cannon has instant death ruling but its only on 6's wheras the D weapon just has to hit. If i roll a 1 to wound with a heavy wraithcannon it doesnt do anything. With a D weapon like the Imperial Knight has it just cracks open any non superheavy in the game.

Like it or not the Wraithknight is not the Eldar Knight Titan regardless of what the name says. Its just a name and until GW comes out and says that the wraithknight is a knight titan I will continue to play the Towering Destroyer as a Towering Destroyer (in games I am able to put it on the table)

Okay, well that's obviously your opinion to keep. But you asked the question and the answer, in my opinion is incredibly obvious.

Just because the Wraithknight behaves differently from the Imperial Knight doesn't mean it isn't the Eldar equivalent of a Knight, because as you can see in black and white, GW likes to make Eldar walkers (Wraithlords) behave like Monstrous Creatures when Imperial Dreadnoughts use the walker rules.

I mean, if a Wraithknight is not the Eldar version of a Knight, where the heck do you see them going with the model? There isn't any real space between a Wraithnkight and a Revenant Titan, so were the heck is an 'actual' Eldar Knight model supposed to fit in there?

And more importantly, you do know and realize that GW isn't going to release another big Eldar walker anytime in the next 5+ years, right? The Wraithknight is it for the foreseeable future.

Because I feel like this was overlooked,

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Its all true, GW even stated so in WDW #5.

SJ

Bold emphasis my own. Not that there's even a lot there to bold.

I don't but the WDW so do you have a quote from the magazine that says the wraithknight is the eldar titan?

A Knight is not a titan afaik.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
A Knight is not a titan afaik.

You are mistaken. It says they are on the box.

Anyway,

Here's the quote from WDW:

DID YOU KNOW?
Imperial Knights first appeared in White Dwarf 126, which came out in June 1990. Despite a gap of more than two decades, you can see how similar the new Knights are to their forbears, even down to their weapons. Interestingly, this classic issue of White Dwarf also introduced Eldar Knights, which have morphed into what we know today as the Eldar Wraithknight.

So can we close the book on this now?

Count-as allies of convenience Free blade knight? Should look and feel right (weapons might not feel Eldar-y though).

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
A Knight is not a titan afaik.

A Knight is a Titan in the same way a Dreadnought is a titan. i.e.: it's not.

Chrysis wrote:
You are mistaken. It says they are on the box.

No it doesn't.

Xerics wrote:I don't but the WDW so do you have a quote from the magazine that says the wraithknight is the eldar titan?

When they Eldar codex came out, Jes Goodwin did a WD article about the design process for the Wraithknight. He said it was "a homage to the Eldar Knights of yesteryear". It's a re-imagined version, in the same way the Tyranid Haruspex and Exocrine are vastly different to their old slug-like Epic designs.

Xerics wrote:Except that just because Wraithknight Has knight in its name doesnt make it a Knight Titan. the WraithKnight is not a titan. The Imperial Knight is a titan. Only Titans have D weapons.

Yep, only Titans. And fortifications. And Baneblade variants. And large Eldar tanks. And glowy C'tan things the size of a dude. But yeah, apart from those and a fair few others I'm too lazy to look for, only Titans have D weapons.

Xerics wrote:Before you comment make sure you know what you are talking about. In Warhammer 40k Epic there were Towering Destroyers (Eldar Knight Titans) as well as a couple of other Titans that you may not know about. So before you try and ridicule someone at least know what you're talking about.

You would do well to heed your own advice.

What xttz said, together with what Yakface said, ends this discussion nicely I think.

Ok so i'll correct my D weapon statement. Only gods made flesh and superheavies have D weaponry. A wraithknight is neither of those. So i'll put it this way. The imperium got a less than 400 point superheavy walker. Where is everyone elses?

 Xerics wrote:
Ok so i'll correct my D weapon statement. Only gods made flesh and superheavies have D weaponry. A wraithknight is neither of those. So i'll put it this way. The imperium got a less than 400 point superheavy walker. Where is everyone elses?

The Wraithknight could just as easily have been a superheavy walker, or the Knight have been a monstrous creature.

You're trying to find consistency or make sense of GW's rules design where there is none.

As Blacksails said, you won't find consistency or fair treatment of factions in the realm of GW's 40k.

Right now GW is going through their library of old concepts and fleshing those models out. Lord of Skulls, Wraithknight, and Imperial Knights are all products of an earlier time, when Epic was billed as the 3rd primary system.

Also, because I haven't seen this clarified, the Imperial Knight has 6 hull points, not 6 structure points.

Here's to hoping they one day FAQ that Sword the Wraithknight can take into a D Weapon

(maybe then someday someone will use it)

Where is everyone elses' revenant titan? Where is the Nid supplement... why did they only get formations...

Why don't I have a wraith-knight equivalent. Why don't I have a wave serpent type model.

Just because one army gets something, doesn't mean they all do.

 Xerics wrote:
Ok so i'll correct my D weapon statement. Only gods made flesh and superheavies have D weaponry. A wraithknight is neither of those. So i'll put it this way. The imperium got a less than 400 point superheavy walker. Where is everyone elses?

Welcome to the GW release schedule. One race will always get a new shiny toy before everyone else because GW like to stagger these things out. Give it a year and I have no doubt we'll see some Chaos Knights, followed by who knows what else. Oh, and for what it's worth, an Ork Kustom Stompa (a Knight equivalent) using the rules from IA8 can be as low as 400pts.

Don't mixup in-game rules with the fluff behind them, as Blacksails said GW don't work with consistency. There was a time when more than 2-3 MC's were considered a powerful core to an army. Now things are creeping toward seeing Super-Heavy or Gargantuan units in regular games, able to wipe out those units in a single turn. It's all because the game rules are tweaked when GW want to push sales, and the easiest way to do that (for now) is to keep scaling things up.

Just to reiterate, Imperial Knights are Knight-class Titans, the smallest of the Titan classes, categorized as Scout Titans, putting them in the same category as Warhounds (if fulfilling a different battlefield role). This has been true since 1990, when Knight Titans were first introduced in Epic scale 40k.

SJ

Knights are NOT titans. They are large one man piloted walkers. Big walkers. Also they don't belong to the Titan legions.

Warhounds are the smallest class of true titans.

 yakface wrote:

Anyway,

Here's the quote from WDW:

DID YOU KNOW?
Imperial Knights first appeared in White Dwarf 126, which came out in June 1990. Despite a gap of more than two decades, you can see how similar the new Knights are to their forbears, even down to their weapons. Interestingly, this classic issue of White Dwarf also introduced Eldar Knights, which have morphed into what we know today as the Eldar Wraithknight.

So can we close the book on this now?

"Thus endeth the lesson."

AnabisXero wrote:
Knights are NOT titans. They are large one man piloted walkers. Big walkers. Also they don't belong to the Titan legions.

Warhounds are the smallest class of true titans.

This argument has gone on ad-nauseam in the Imperial Knight news thread. Here is the box for the knight:



GW does not seem to mind changing fluff, going back-and-forth on things, or what not. I am not here to continue that argument, I just don't think it is necessary to correct others on interpretation of something GW has always left vague.