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Made in us
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker




ohio

M4 ws2 bs2 s3 t5 w 4 i2 ld9
stupidity, breed*, mates**, monstrous infantry, fear, immune to psychology

Sits on 50mm base

* roll 3d6 every magic phase instead of casting spells to spawn x amount of giant rats. If you roll doubles, the breeding stops and the queen takes a wound, no saves allowed.

** can add 1-5 clanrats to the queen. Each rat adds +1w +1s each mate is 10 points.

The queen is 200pts hero(lord?)

Thoughts?

Tell me what you'd add (or remove) to fix it

Thank you




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let me know what equipment it should have too

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/11 11:40:49


"The horses look mighty thin today! And the men look absolutely starved! Perhaps we should hold a feast to brighten spirits, and fill bellies"- a slightly disillusioned tomb king to his herald. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Are you saying for 50 points you can add +5S and +5W? If so, that is without a doubt the cheapest buff in the history of WHFB.

Giant Rats are a bit weird cuz they need a Packmaster. And you have to decide where they go. They can't join her, are they placed within 1"? What if there isn't room? What if she's engaged in CC?

You might think of rat swarms instead. Just add like 1 and have it come in remaining moves. Giant rats are pretty giant. She'd have to be a literal monster to be shooting out 10.5 of those every round.

Don't know what fearless is.

I think a Breeder is a good unit idea. Not sure about queen. But maybe I'm being sexist. I thought they only had Breeders, they were pretty important, but pretty much like cattle.

I don't think she should be able to add any clanrats or whatever. She's just a unit who creates other units and has okay defenses. You stick her in your troops somewhere and try and protect her. By being able to buy a ton of defenses, she doesn't need protecting and it's something you're always going to buy.

If you want to get really racy, you could do something like, as long as she is IN a unit of 5 or more core and a Hero or Lord and not in combat, she can breed. But then we're getting R-rated. But that's also kind based on the book itself (from memory).

I would look at the DoC rules for adding units via their spell signature. Or VC adding models. So you might have to have an existing unit nearby and you just plop onto the back of it. Maybe D6 clanrats, D3 stormvermin, 2D6 giant rats if one of those units is withing 6".

   
Made in us
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker




ohio

I'm thinking we just take away the 2 non brb rules, and add the R-rated rule to breed swarms.

So as long as she is in a unit of 5 or more core she can spawn 1 rat swarm ( or i also liked d6 clan rats too . Would those be added to her unit?) during the magic phase. (Still roll s die) if she rolls a 1, the breeding stops that turn and she takes a wound.

That sounds a lot better to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also cant breed during close combat.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/11 11:39:37


"The horses look mighty thin today! And the men look absolutely starved! Perhaps we should hold a feast to brighten spirits, and fill bellies"- a slightly disillusioned tomb king to his herald. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Don't reinvent the wheel, look for the DoC spell rules. She can choose to spend make 1 swarm within 1" OR 1D6 clan rats to an existing unit within 12". As for it's magic, call it a 3 bound spell. That way the enemy can dispel it. They're doing all kindsa warpstone breeding.

Then forget everything else.

   
Made in us
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker




ohio

Tried the fat-rat today.

She popped out 14 clanrats before she was killed.

Performed just as I expected her to!

Thanks for the rule help

"The horses look mighty thin today! And the men look absolutely starved! Perhaps we should hold a feast to brighten spirits, and fill bellies"- a slightly disillusioned tomb king to his herald. 
   
Made in gr
Regular Dakkanaut




The other model-generator units in the game are the VC/TK mages who spam spells on units and generate zombies/skellies/bats etc. I think you should read these rules just to make such an interesting rule viable.
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

While it sounds cool there are a few big problems with the idea.

One of them being it's 200 pts and doesn't sound like it'll make enough clanrats or rat swarms to be worth it.

The next being I don't think clanrats mature so quickly but giant rats or possibly rat swarms make sense to me (though I think rat swarms are actual rats so it may be something totally different).

Another big problem is that it's a heroes or lord choice and as that stands it'd get in the way of taking wizards. I mean in a 2k game I can take 2 without having much in the way of kitting out a general or BSB chieftain and that would pretty much eliminate any wizards I could take in those groups.

If you change the choice type to core or special I might take it but if it's a rare, heroes choice or lords choice it's just not worth it. It doesn't do enough to make me want to take it instead of an abomination or two warp lightning cannons. As a special or core you could take quite a few of them and throw out lots of rats. Possibly you could purchase one instead of a weapons team or it could be a costly upgrade to a unit of core.

You could also maybe purchase it as a special so that you could shoot out some rat swarms. I would actually probably take it if it spawned d3 rat swarms per turn even if it cost 200 pts of special.

------------------

The mating idea while interesting is a bit mature for GW's current family friendly approach. If anything a breeder force feeds her warpstone for extra breeding potential though that would be an upgrade with an appropriate points value or possibly a bound spell that allows bigger, more potent or more spawns overall.

-------------------

It's an interesting idea though it sounds weird. For some reason I'd prefer it as a special choice more so than anything else. That way you have a limit but it's not so strict and doesn't ruin rare, hero or lord point allowances.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/12 01:22:30


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Made in ca
Monstrous Master Moulder



Space Cowboy Cruising Around Olympus Mons

hhhhm looks pretty interesting actually.
I have to agree with taking that clanrats thing about +1 w +1 s for each rat off that is pretty ridiculous haha

How about base points at 275 as a lord choice since its a queen (I put it 275 because all the named stuff is expensive as crap haha)
- You must bring her in a unit of at least 20 clanrats
- 3d6 clanrats (depending on what unit you take) per magic phase same rules about doubles etc
- Can take 75 points worth of magic items
- Some sort of special attack maybe for close combat? And definitely put stomp attacks if you didn't already

Sounds cool tho I might have to try it if it is refined a little bit more!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I do think it should be a spell. It shouldn't be guaranteed as that kind of means you can make some impenetrable slave wall and lol-build a trillion rats and no one can stop you unless they have spells or indirect war machines. And it's just not how it's done anywhere else in the game.

As I recall in one of the kind of fluff sections of the sKaven book, I think an Empire guy described a Breeder and they were some horrible gigantic monsters with clawing paws in their bellies. Consider how many skaven come out and how many they are, it could be a Rare of monster size with decent T and W and maybe regen 5. With a bound spell of pooping out rats to nearby units.

And just because if she doesn't get her bound spell off she's a big waste-o-points, I would say that any unit within 6" gets the Frenzy special rule. Because her pheromone stink drives them nuts.

As for whether it's more profitable to make her hero/lor/special, you don't come up with a new unit on whether or not it would displace something better. You come up with it where it is most logical. There will always be people who only take the best, but that's not always the funnest.

   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

My problem with heroes and lords is more that you'd never want to take the queen as a hero or lord. It would displace too many points to take enough of them for it to be worth it. Also you'd never want it to be your general if it has stupidity for obvious reasons if you can even take it as a general. This assures you will never have more than 2 in a 2k points game. For it's price it needs to throw out plenty to make it's points worth of units in about 3-4 turns or i'll just spend that many points in each unit and take my normal lords and heroes instead.

Besides in my view if they spawned rat swarms it'd be more like d3 rat swarms. They wouldn't be super spamming OP if you adjusted the numbers produced appropriately. As for a bound spell those could just be dispelled without much trouble esp. since they only go at base numbers rolled without caster bonus. I wouldn't totally mind it but if you're facing a super dispel heavy army there will be no way to have these rats and then you just wasted points unless you go for irresistible force with each one (something hard to do but would cause no ill effects).

If you take this thing (which had better spawn plenty of clanrats or whatever it spawns) it better do spawns well enough to be worth taking. I'm not saying I want some stupid OP unit. I just want a unit/model which isn't entirely useless and never gets taken (like the uselessness of the doom flayer). I don't want this to turn into something that nobody takes. Nobody takes the vermin lord, doom flayer or plagueclaw catapult. I don't want this to happen to a good and fun mechanic to a game. I don't want to see it as a stupid spammed unit to win but seeing it have so much wasted potential would just make me feel terrible.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/12 02:41:32


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Made in ca
Monstrous Master Moulder



Space Cowboy Cruising Around Olympus Mons

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
My problem with heroes and lords is more that you'd never want to take the queen as a hero or lord. It would displace too many points to take enough of them for it to be worth it. Also you'd never want it to be your general if it has stupidity for obvious reasons if you can even take it as a general. This assures you will never have more than 2 in a 2k points game. For it's price it needs to throw out plenty to make it's points worth of units in about 3-4 turns or i'll just spend that many points in each unit and take my normal lords and heroes instead.

Besides in my view if they spawned rat swarms it'd be more like d3 rat swarms. They wouldn't be super spamming OP if you adjusted the numbers produced appropriately. As for a bound spell those could just be dispelled without much trouble esp. since they only go at base numbers rolled without caster bonus. I wouldn't totally mind it but if you're facing a super dispel heavy army there will be no way to have these rats and then you just wasted points unless you go for irresistible force with each one (something hard to do but would cause no ill effects).

If you take this thing (which had better spawn plenty of clanrats or whatever it spawns) it better do spawns well enough to be worth taking. I'm not saying I want some stupid OP unit. I just want a unit/model which isn't entirely useless and never gets taken (like the uselessness of the doom flayer). I don't want this to turn into something that nobody takes. Nobody takes the vermin lord, doom flayer or plagueclaw catapult. I don't want this to happen to a good and fun mechanic to a game. I don't want to see it as a stupid spammed unit to win but seeing it have so much wasted potential would just make me feel terrible.


Ya I am going to agree with some of what you are saying but i don't think it should be core (maybe taken as an addition to a unit of clanrats similar to the weapon teams maybe). I just think if it is a lord choice it HAS to be 200+ points because every other lord is so damn expensive, if its to inexpensive and does all the things the OP wrote out for the rules then that would end up being an overpowered unit.
You have to consider it in comparison to other units in the army book. I don't think it would be a top choice but either are most other lords so it is comparable in price. at 200-250 you could still take it with a grey seer at 2000+ points.
I think it would be a fun choice just to try and see how well it actually does you know?

Oh and p.s I have used to Vermin lord (didn't go so well) but he didn't die but I was afraid to bring him into combat because he took up so many damn points haha. Also I think I am going to try the Plagueclaw I was reviewing the rules for it and why do people think it is so bad? Large round template, no armour saves allowed, causes a panic test if 1 wound is suffered....sound pretty good to me haha
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Again, if you don't want to take it hero/lord because there is something you think is more OP, then don't take it. The logic you're employing is to see if it's balanced by how overpowered it is compared to the army, that's a terrible approach. You're starting from a fluff unit.

There is nothing in the game that simply makes models/units with no chance of stopping it. That isn't fun. I don't care if it's a 500pt lord, that's weaksauce.

It can cost anything you want. It just has to correspond to its abilities. If you made it cost 1pt, it would be the OP unit in the game. If you made it cost 1500pts, it would be the most useless unit in the game. Somewhere between there is what it should cost...

The description of females is skaven book bottom right page 6. Doesn't say much. But it even states they are "rare, large...semi-intelligent." Which kind of supports my suggestion of Rare and monster.

   
Made in ca
Monstrous Master Moulder



Space Cowboy Cruising Around Olympus Mons

 DukeRustfield wrote:
Again, if you don't want to take it hero/lord because there is something you think is more OP, then don't take it. The logic you're employing is to see if it's balanced by how overpowered it is compared to the army, that's a terrible approach. You're starting from a fluff unit.

There is nothing in the game that simply makes models/units with no chance of stopping it. That isn't fun. I don't care if it's a 500pt lord, that's weaksauce.

It can cost anything you want. It just has to correspond to its abilities. If you made it cost 1pt, it would be the OP unit in the game. If you made it cost 1500pts, it would be the most useless unit in the game. Somewhere between there is what it should cost...

The description of females is skaven book bottom right page 6. Doesn't say much. But it even states they are "rare, large...semi-intelligent." Which kind of supports my suggestion of Rare and monster.



Well I wasn't aware we were going by EXACTLY what the army book says it looks like of the 1 sentence description it says it has.
I am saying a lord or hero because that is what the Original poster WANTED it as. I even stated it could be used as an addition unit to clanrats or slaves (just like a weapon team and not a lord or hero choice at all) SO putting it at 200 points is a reasonable points value for a LORD slot because it is far from the most expensive and has good abilities for that price. If you don't want to take it as a lord or hero then take it as whatever you want then if you even do take it no one is stopping you from trying it as a rare choice.

Also when you say this:
There is nothing in the game that simply makes models/units with no chance of stopping it. That isn't fun. I don't care if it's a 500pt lord, that's weaksauce.

Are you implying that this model will not be able to be stopped? Or just in general?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'm saying being able to create new models into the game is always done via some mechanic. Like a spell. Or even rolling on the winds of magic (with the downside that you could die instead).

It used to be Kgath plaguefather the zillion point greater daemon could simply create swarms out of thin air. But now he just heals existing ones near him--or does nothing if there aren't any.

Well I wasn't aware we were going by EXACTLY what the army book says it looks like of the 1 sentence description it says it has.

I suppose we could do exactly what the army book DOESN'T say based on the 0 sentence description. In which case it's a space rat with layz0r beams wearing a Barbarella costume.

If you're going to base it on the book, you might as well base it on the book. If you're making something totally different, then the only question is if it's balanced and kinda makes sense. (Like a Barbarella space rat probably wouldn't make sense.)

   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

 DukeRustfield wrote:
Again, if you don't want to take it hero/lord because there is something you think is more OP, then don't take it. The logic you're employing is to see if it's balanced by how overpowered it is compared to the army, that's a terrible approach. You're starting from a fluff unit.

There is nothing in the game that simply makes models/units with no chance of stopping it. That isn't fun. I don't care if it's a 500pt lord, that's weaksauce.

It can cost anything you want. It just has to correspond to its abilities. If you made it cost 1pt, it would be the OP unit in the game. If you made it cost 1500pts, it would be the most useless unit in the game. Somewhere between there is what it should cost...

The description of females is skaven book bottom right page 6. Doesn't say much. But it even states they are "rare, large...semi-intelligent." Which kind of supports my suggestion of Rare and monster.


I'm not saying there should be a lot of them but that part of the book was as written from a dwarf's perspective. They barely ever see a skaven's actual society because they're probably very hard to eradicate from somewhere.

I find it to be more of a monstrous infantry unit rather than a monster though monstrous beast is also likely. It's also possible that not every female skaven makes all the skaven units since a lot of the skaven units are more of a blend of multiple creatures. I don't know that warpstone plus a breeder plus an ogre getting it on with one equals rat ogres. I was always under the impression they used parts from different creatures and sort of added rat parts to it. Basically a Frankenstein creation with skaven bits and an ogre or troll's body for rat ogres. The hellpit abomination was made in a similar way with the original beast being a blindwyrm or something. They also use lots of warpstone in the creation process and growing/mutating agents. Then again maybe I don't know the exact process so both can be true in a variety of situations.

I'm not saying I want something more OP. I don't think a grey seer or warlord is really OP though people with elite infantry armies may state otherwise with the grey seer's 13th spell (the spell is very restrictive about units it can effect though and it costs quite a bit). In fact it probably wouldn't be so bad if they toned down some units to make this option more viable. I just don't want there to be such a huge difference in how good one unit is to another. If one unit is too good everybody will take it and if one unit sucks then nobody will take it unless they have to fill up points regardless of their choice.

I'm actually fine with it costing different amounts. It just depends on what it does. I feel like it should make its points worth of units in about 4 turns if left unchecked. The return depends on how long it stays alive. If they get sniped out by death magic or shot by certain spells they can die really fast. In fact I wouldn't mind this unit having 3-4 wounds and being between toughness 4 or 5. I say toughness 4-5 with 3-4 wounds because I imagine it's probably closer to a bit larger than a rat ogre. That said a plague priest is 100 pts with toughness 5 and 2 wounds. He is also a level 2 wizard and can take items. If it's some sort of hero or lord I expect it to take items. It's not always true but it often is. Also I find it a little odd to have a semi-intelligent lord or hero for some reason since normally they can command. Also there's a brood horror up on the forge world site that has it as a mount for a warlord. I just figure it would need a more commanding presence. Perhaps it could work but I dunno. I can't exactly imagine them with items.

Another big deal is my version of this means that the unit is out in the OPEN. So it can get shot to death infinitely easier than your heroes and lords which can join a unit. It is worth noting though even if it's attached to a unit that since the infantry type is different it most likely can be shot by templates and cannons without a 'look out sir'. This is not a good thing though the enemy will probably be more focused on the other big targets around the board.

My point with the doom flayer was that everybody says it sucks. It sucks for multiple reasons. It can be stood and shot against with skinks and killed as an example. It has one wound, toughness 3, a 3+ armor save in the front arc only against anything (except mishaps) and a 5+ armor save otherwise and one 4+ ward save. All it takes is one rank of shooting or one good wound in close combat to put it down and it usually dies before it can even flank. It has initiative 3 so it may even die before it has the chance to attack back other than impact hits. I have tried it multiple times and in probably every game that doesn't have a noob fighting against it which is also a vampire counts player (which has lots of crappy core that dies to everything and no shooting) it just dies to one unit firing at it even if it's a stand and shoot reaction. Believe me I want that unit to be good I really do but it's not and always ends badly. Even in the flank it will probably die without doing much. I like the fluff of the doom flayer, the name of it and the idea of it but it's too weak and dies too easily. Perhaps 2-3 wounds would change my mind. Perhaps any enemies that strike it have -1 to hit. I don't think I'm asking too much. You are probably right that it also takes up room for weapons teams which are much better. However it's lacking even where I want it to be good.

So in short I don't need something really awesome I just want something to not suck. Price the points, stats and abilities accordingly and maybe it'll be a decent choice. The last thing skaven need is more core spamming with rares to back it up. Just whatever you guys do make it good and make it right or it'll be shelved. On the other hand sure don't make it too good or it'll turn into a stupid spam-fest and that's also lame.

------------------

I have actually taken a vermin lord btw in some games and I'm thinking about using the plagueclaw catapult though I and some others think it's crazy. It's just against enemy armies which throw out more stuff which makes my army look like crap more and more I find not throwing out cheese to be harder and harder (multiple beasts of nurgle, the special daemons list, the slann in the previous army book and lots of newer and more updated books). I don't run units of more than 50 models as it's not allowed in some tournaments and I don't do double seer, double furnace with bell or double abomination. Against enemies which have to always use the most top tier army they can in order to win it just gets tiring. Maybe I just suck and have too little of an army for a horde. It's very possible but skaven are also feeling codex creep right now and I can tell.

Sorry I just need to vent my frustration but some days I just don't know what to do. Some time ago I had my freaking abomination fail some saves and get taken down by mostly pistoliers. So I dunno maybe I do suck.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/12 05:17:18


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Well, going by the small section by the Rat Ogre:

200 slaves + Breeder + 12 "claws" of warp tokens + alliances and pledges = 1 "finest" rat ogre.

Which of course is nonsense, since 200 slaves would be worth 5 Ogres alone. It's a fluff sentence, but you get the sense they aren't that great from that context. BUT, that said, slaves and Breeders, and Rat Ogres are things you can trade. You couldn't trade Stormvermin because they are aligned. But slaves are...slaves. And a Rat Ogre is a zombie. And a Breeder is stupid.

   
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pontiac, michigan; usa

 DukeRustfield wrote:
Well, going by the small section by the Rat Ogre:

200 slaves + Breeder + 12 "claws" of warp tokens + alliances and pledges = 1 "finest" rat ogre.

Which of course is nonsense, since 200 slaves would be worth 5 Ogres alone. It's a fluff sentence, but you get the sense they aren't that great from that context. BUT, that said, slaves and Breeders, and Rat Ogres are things you can trade. You couldn't trade Stormvermin because they are aligned. But slaves are...slaves. And a Rat Ogre is a zombie. And a Breeder is stupid.


A rat ogre is more a Frankenstein monster than a zombie but I suppose that's just a different type of zombie. It's true slaves are often like a form of currency. I suppose breeders are stupid. There's only one sentence on them and it's from a dwarf perspective if I remember correctly.

To be fair in game terms we have no idea how many slaves are being represented by what we have on the board. The block of 100 slaves could actually be 1,000. It's kind of like how it'd be absurd for such a low count guardsmen army model-wise to take on as many space marine models in their army. This should make sense as elves are more elite and horde armies just horde better.

As far as skaven go they lie, cheat, steal, backstab, manipulate and betray each other and other groups all the time. They are incredibly selfish creatures that probably boast and would exaggerate on the quality of the rat ogres in question. Perhaps not long after the rat ogre will fall apart by being too unstable or perhaps it goes berserk and goes on a killing frenzy. It may also suffer from stupidity a little too much and just wonder off stabbing butterflies and eating grass somewhere. Also a skaven with an advantage will make sure to press that advantage.

There are definitely big flaws in the skaven disposition. Maybe each one is so selfish and so happy to take all the credit for something that they sabotage the efforts of each other. I suppose the only stability really exists because they need somebody to trust and everybody they know is untrustworthy so it doesn't matter.

Skaven help each other because they need each other. If they didn't they'd gladly just help themselves.

Skaven also always know who's on top and even with dudes of similar ranking there will still be one on top.

Actually as far as stormvermin go they can be bodyguards or they can even be requisitioned by grey seers. I don't know if they can be bought and purchased by other warlords.


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Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker




ohio

Here is what I think the final looks like:

Skaven breeder: rare

M4 ws2 bs2 s3 t5 a1 w4 i2 ld9
fear, immune to psychology, pheremone*, breed**, fat***, stupid

230 pts
may take 1 piece of magical equipment
Stomp

Pheremone: attached unit becomes frenzied, see frenzy rule in the brb

Breed: is a bound 3 spell. As long as the breeder is in a unit with 5 or more core models, she may either generate 1d6 clanrats, or 1d3 rat swarms. The rat swarms spawn within 6" of the breeder, the clan rats are attached to the unit (if not a unit of clanrats, then the clanrats immediately become part of a seperate unit within 12")

Fat: the breeder is so fat she can barely move. Any attached unit may not march, unless they number 10 or more (we assume she is being carried) additionally, the breeder follows the always strikes last rule.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/12 22:04:22


"The horses look mighty thin today! And the men look absolutely starved! Perhaps we should hold a feast to brighten spirits, and fill bellies"- a slightly disillusioned tomb king to his herald. 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Too expensive.

No rares take magic items. That doesn't make sense.

Fat you can make be a 4+ or 3+ armor save.

Monstrous Beast.

If she's Stupid she's already ITP.

I say give her a breath weapon S3 or S4 ignores armor saves, Magic. Warpstone Shriek. That way she's got some defense and something to do that makes her more than just a big defensive blob. It's one use only since it's a breath weapon of course.

   
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SF Bay Area

Sounds interesting. I doubt a breeder would do any movement on a table due to their size and stupidity. Abreeder may be more accurately represented as a monstrous creature that acts as a sort of war machine, not to say the breeder could project rats. It also seems like there would need to be an all new unit type to account for her offspring. What comes to my mind is some sort of frenzied naked and furless miniature version of a ratman hunched over nearly on all fours, maybe similar in size to a noblar. Not sure how it could translate effectively as a competive and sensical unit though. Maybe give them frenzied, stubborn, and a ton of attacks

Tyler


 
   
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That's just a swarm. But making 2 brand new units isn't needed. Skaven clearly gestate fast and don't live very long. And breeders are large. A war machine is a model that is manned by other models. Like a cannon or a dwarf anvil. Doesn't really fit breeder.

   
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SF Bay Area

 DukeRustfield wrote:
That's just a swarm. But making 2 brand new units isn't needed. Skaven clearly gestate fast and don't live very long. And breeders are large. A war machine is a model that is manned by other models. Like a cannon or a dwarf anvil. Doesn't really fit breeder.


I guess what was coming to my mind was a Tervigon, but Tervigons are not stupid and are much faster. I just have never read any fluff where a breeder has been brought to battle. I think the only viable unit that is araound right now for a breeder to birth is a slave. However, I still think it would be best if they made a kit for slave with different options, with a shield, hand weapon, spear, or no weapon. I mean who doesn't love running a bunch of slaves. I think it would sell rather well.

Tyler


 
   
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Pretty sure that one of the micro-fictions included a description of a deal between Skaven commanders, which included warptokens, Slaves, and breeders. So I'd assume that yeah, we're looking at a big ol' gross monster.

I actually ran something like this for a special game; she was a living objective marker. The Skaven had to get their drilling caravan-thing started again so they could get the breeder back underground, and the Dwarfs wanted to kill the thing.
Something like:

Skaven Breeder
M0 WS3 BS- S4 T5 I1 W6 A3 Ld10

Fit to Burst, Regeneration (4+), Stupid, Swarming Brood, Unbreakable

Fit to Burst: Skaven breeders are little more than sacks of flesh, stretched tight with their foul progeny and the tainted ichors that nourish them.
Every time a unit causes an unsaved wound in close combat against a model with this special rule, the unit takes D6 S4 hits. No armour saves may be taken against wounds caused by this special rule.

Swarming Brood: a living carpet of rats and malformed beasts hang from the breeder's many teats, ready to turn their fangs on any who would threaten their food source.
Durin each Close Combat phase, a model with this special rule may make 2d6 WS2 S3 I4 attacks a single enemy unit in base contact.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/17 23:46:01


 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





SF Bay Area

Warpsolution wrote:
Pretty sure that one of the micro-fictions included a description of a deal between Skaven commanders, which included warptokens, Slaves, and breeders. So I'd assume that yeah, we're looking at a big ol' gross monster.

I actually ran something like this for a special game; she was a living objective marker. The Skaven had to get their drilling caravan-thing started again so they could get the breeder back underground, and the Dwarfs wanted to kill the thing.
Something like:

Skaven Breeder
M0 WS3 BS- S4 T5 I1 W6 A3 Ld10

Fit to Burst, Regeneration (4+), Stupid, Swarming Brood, Unbreakable

Fit to Burst: Skaven breeders are little more than sacks of flesh, stretched tight with their foul progeny and the tainted ichors that nourish them.
Every time a unit causes an unsaved wound in close combat against a model with this special rule, the unit takes D6 S4 hits. No armour saves may be taken against wounds caused by this special rule.

Swarming Brood: a living carpet of rats and malformed beasts hang from the breeder's many teats, ready to turn their fangs on any who would threaten their food source.
Durin each Close Combat phase, a model with this special rule may make 2d6 WS2 S3 I4 attacks a single enemy unit in base contact.


See now that makes sense, an objective in a campaign, that has random effects. I need to do some research, but I don't remember breeders as being agressive, just dumb birthers.

Tyler


 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





 tjnorwoo wrote:
I don't remember breeders as being agressive, just dumb birthers.
Well, I'd assume that, if you walked up to one and poked it with a sharp stick, it'd probably try to bite you or somethin'.

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I would say do this

M- ws2 bs2 s6 t4 w4 i1 ld-
stupidity, breed*, monstrous infantry, fear, immune to psychology "large mother" "caregiver"

Sits on 50mm base

Breed " in the magic phase choose to cast 1 of either bound spells " 1" power level 3 Roll a d3 summon that many swarms "2" power level 5 Roll d6+2 summon that number of slaves"they get just a hand weapon because they are just born"

"large mother" Work it kinda like a bell she can't move unless 6 clan rats are moving here. more clan rats the faster she moves - Maker her leadership = to the number of clan rats over 5 "ie" 6" would be ld 1 10 clan rats would be ld "5" The more clan rats that are around the more likely they will be brave.

Caregiver" if all the clan rats die she is left where she is no more clan rats can join her and if she is attacked she is removed as a casualty.

The queen is 100pts hero

Think this would be cheap enough to lose a caster or cheap chieftain with out being upset. Also give them a chance to stop her from breeding.





I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me. 
   
Made in us
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker




ohio

I think 100 is kind of low for the type of output she can dish.
Maybe 175? Or higher. She is a relativly difficult opponent to kill.

"The horses look mighty thin today! And the men look absolutely starved! Perhaps we should hold a feast to brighten spirits, and fill bellies"- a slightly disillusioned tomb king to his herald. 
   
Made in us
Crafty Clanrat




Warpsolution wrote:
Pretty sure that one of the micro-fictions included a description of a deal between Skaven commanders, which included warptokens, Slaves, and breeders. So I'd assume that yeah, we're looking at a big ol' gross monster.

I actually ran something like this for a special game; she was a living objective marker. The Skaven had to get their drilling caravan-thing started again so they could get the breeder back underground, and the Dwarfs wanted to kill the thing.
Something like:

Skaven Breeder
M0 WS3 BS- S4 T5 I1 W6 A3 Ld10

Fit to Burst, Regeneration (4+), Stupid, Swarming Brood, Unbreakable

Fit to Burst: Skaven breeders are little more than sacks of flesh, stretched tight with their foul progeny and the tainted ichors that nourish them.
Every time a unit causes an unsaved wound in close combat against a model with this special rule, the unit takes D6 S4 hits. No armour saves may be taken against wounds caused by this special rule.

Swarming Brood: a living carpet of rats and malformed beasts hang from the breeder's many teats, ready to turn their fangs on any who would threaten their food source.
Durin each Close Combat phase, a model with this special rule may make 2d6 WS2 S3 I4 attacks a single enemy unit in base contact.


Out of all the ideas on this topic, I think this is perhaps the most accurate idea with regards to fluff. From the fluff and the impressions generated from the reading, I would say mother/queen is extremely important. I might give her inspiring presence and/or hold your ground but for only 12". I might clear up the unique rules and give her vermintide as a bound spell. No idea what pt value to give, but limit 1 per army, make her a special unit, and give her the monster unit type.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/30 22:39:14


Ppl see 4d6 casualties and think its limburger dick 
   
 
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