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Hey all. Quick back story, I originally started my tabletop gaming playing WHF with my friends 6 years ago. We stopped playing after a year as my friends found other hobbies, and my fantasy troops collected dust on the shelves. Once I could drive, I started getting back into gaming, this time with 40k as that was what my local group played. After a few years of 40k, I am thinking about getting back into fantasy.
I will just list what I have for my dark elves, as this is probably the army I will keep. I would love some help making a semi-competitive list without having to buy a lot more models, though I am happily willing to convert some more characters. Any advice on building a decent army, tactics, possible builds, and maybe a new unit or 2 would all be appreciated.

Characters:
Malekith on dragon
Master on manticore
Sorceress

Core:
100 Dreadspears
40 Darkshards

Special:
9 Black Guard
3 Bolt Throwers
War Hydra

I'm afraid you'll need to do a fair bit of purchasing here. In the new edition, characters on monsters really aren't very competitive choices and there's no way you should be using all 100 (one hundred!) spearmen, especially when you have some Xbows too. This gives you quite a few redundant models.

That said, the shooting things, as well as the black guard give you the basis of a strong Shadow support list, with a heavy focus on shooting. Another box of Black Guard (with a unit filler to give you a unit of 21), another sorceress, a BSB and some other filler units (Dark Riders, Warlocks, Shades etc), you'll have a good list.

Perhaps:

Lvl4 Sorceress

Lvl1/2 Sorceress
Master BSB

2 x 15 Darkshards
2 x 5 Dark Riders

21 Black Guard
3 RBTs
Hydra
Shades?

Hope this helps, if you want more advice or any more info, just ask!

Ah, that's disappointing to hear. But I expected as much after missing a couple of editions. I have a couple of questions:

1) I know one of the biggest things for 8th is the use of hoards. Is that not really a popular option for DE? I was imagining having 1 or 2 very large blocks of spears in the center of the army to house the general and BSB as well as provide the anvil for w/e heavy hitters I have.

2) Chaff. From reading on this forum, I kind of understand the purpose of chaff. However, I'm a little confused on how to use it effectively. Also, are dark riders the best option for DE chaff? Are there other viable options to use, such as shades?

3) I've seen some very excellent conversions of warriors into executioners. Would a unit of them be useful instead of or in tangent with black guard?

4) Back when I played, I always ran at least 1 assassin in my large units of CC infantry. Is that still a good tactic this edition?

 Freytag93 wrote:
Ah, that's disappointing to hear. But I expected as much after missing a couple of editions. I have a couple of questions:

1) I know one of the biggest things for 8th is the use of hoards. Is that not really a popular option for DE? I was imagining having 1 or 2 very large blocks of spears in the center of the army to house the general and BSB as well as provide the anvil for w/e heavy hitters I have.

2) Chaff. From reading on this forum, I kind of understand the purpose of chaff. However, I'm a little confused on how to use it effectively. Also, are dark riders the best option for DE chaff? Are there other viable options to use, such as shades?

3) I've seen some very excellent conversions of warriors into executioners. Would a unit of them be useful instead of or in tangent with black guard?

4) Back when I played, I always ran at least 1 assassin in my large units of CC infantry. Is that still a good tactic this edition?

1)Hordes are pretty good but, with DE being an elite army, they don't really rely on it as much as, say, OnG. That said, some DE units do work well in hordes. Spearmen do... sort of. The issue isn't the fact they're bad in hordes, it's more that you don't want to be spending that many points on Spearmen, since there are better options in core. For 2 points more, you get AHW Corsairs who have a few more attacks (due to the fact that AHWs work on the charge and that the extra attacks are on the front rank) and a better armour save. If you're looking for an anvil type unit as well, you'll want to go with Bleakswords (could use spearmen as proxies for these, mind) as their Parry Save makes them win out over Spearmen, and their cheaper cost over Corsairs. A Spearmen Horde is by no means bad, if you really want to run one (I know the phalanx aesthetic is pleasing to many people) but be aware there are better options around.

2) There was a thread a while back in the Tactics forum on chaff. If you can find it, that'd be the best place to get an explanation, since it's fairly complicated and there was a lot of good advice in that thread irrc. There are many different types of chaff, but, yes, overall Dark Riders are the best chaff in the DE book (and arguably in the game). They're fast, have good damage output and are relatively survivable and are Core too boot. Shades work well as chaff too, but they're more of the harassment/anti-war machine type, as opposed to redirecting charges and what not. Harpies are a bit of both, though overcosted in my opinion.

3) This is perfectly viable, though Executioners will be the focus of your list. Run a Lvl4 with Life to support them, and a Lvl1 with Beasts to offer a bit of support to the Black Guard should they need it. It's often a struggle to fit both in though, so you may find yourself with only 14 or so Black Guard. However, the models you have lend themselves very well to the beginnings of a Shadow support list, which is not something Executioners will fit into well.

4) Assassins weren't great in the last book (when I started) and just got worse in this one. Sadly, assassins utterly fail in what they should be good at: taking out enemy characters. They can take out weak ones, yes, but only those that many of your units champions (or your BSB) should be able to deal with. Tougher characters just laugh at Assassins' feeble attempts. They're a terrible waste of points, sadly. Cool, but not great at all. Shadowblade is better, as he'll always be where you want him to be, and can actually do quite a bit of damage, with both KB and +1 to wound as well as one-use S8. He even has a Ward Save which goes a little way to reducing damage taken in return. Sadly, he's a bigger investment still, and is still only knocks off a wound or two against the scarier combat characters, and gets slaughtered in return. Tbh, if you're so concerned about enemy characters, Death Magic is the way forward. Still, if you really like the idea of Assassins, so much that you really want to include one, add in Shadowblade, and stop there.

Hope this helps!

Sorry if this is a necro. I didn't see that there had been a response on this post and forgot about it.

Thank you for the advice Shadow! Now that I finally get to read it, it explains a lot.

For the army, I will definitely be making some changes if I wind up keeping it (I have both DE and HE).
First, I will shelve my Malekith and master. Having read more into the current meta of WHF, I can see why big monsters are rarely used. I'll convert a BSB, a dreadlord, and another sorceress from my extra core. I have some nice Dark Eldar bits that should help with that.
Second, I'll convert a big block of executioners from my deadspears. I've found a couple of simple conversions that look great (if I can pull them off).
Third, I'll pick up another hydra and some dark riders.

I'm thinking that my basic army (2.5k, as I believe that is the average game size for WHF) will be something like this:

Lords:
Dreadlord
Sorceress

Heros:
Sorceress
BSB master

Core:
19 Darkshards
19 Darkshards
38 Dreadspears

Special:
20 Executioners
20 Executioners
2 War Hydra
3 Reaper Bolt Throwers

I would use the dreadspears as my anvil with the BSB and my general. The darkshards will be bunkers for the sorceresses and sit with the bolt throwers. The hydras and the executioners will be the hammers.
Does this seem like a decent list? Should I switch out a hydra or a squad of executioners or the dreadspears for some dark riders or something else? Any help would be appreciated.