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Hi all,
There are many criticisms levelled at the current Daemons book, one of which I hope to address. The new 'Gift' system was a radical departure from any other Warhammer army and received quite a bit of derision due to it's implementation. I am not here to change the fundamental concept of your Gifts being unpredictable because I believe it to be characterful and representative of the faction. However I also believe that while it is a nice concept, it could have been better executed.

My main complaints of the current system are:
1) It is impossible to protect your Heralds. There are a handful of protective Gifts and they are scattered all over the tables meaning that you never have good odds to roll up something to defend your expensive, vulnerable Heralds, and in turn your expensive, vulnerable Loci.
Suggestion: Gather all of the protective Gifts under a common heading and introduce a protective option into the '0' choice at each bracket.

2) Many of the Gifts are simply repeats of Common Magic items under a different name or price. This takes away a lot of the uniqueness.
Suggestion: Invent new ones and bring back some old favourites.

3) There are very few God-specific Gifts. On the one hand this means that all of the Gifts are a bit too generalist and do not evoke the 'feel' of any particular God. On a more practical level it means your dedicated Wizards are stuck without a 'safe' option or any way to augment their spellcasting.
Suggestion: Introduce God-specific Gift options that cover up some of the inherent weaknesses (Khorne- Dispelling, Tzeentch- Spell options etc)

4) There is no Scroll-equivalent. Daemons are in the unfortunate position of combining ludicrously expensive targets with the most expensive, least effective magic defence in the game.
Suggestion: Introduce magic defence, especially some that are in the '0' results to guarantee access.


Here are my revamped tables, using the same rules as the standard Daemons. All items are assumed to be Enchanted unless otherwise stated, a model can bear multiple Magic items of each category, and each item can only be taken once per army.
A Greater Daemon can take 100pts of Exalted, Greater, Lesser and God-Specific Gifts. A Daemon Prince can take 75pts, and a Herald can take 50pts.


Lesser- 25pts
0- Choose from Chaos Armour*, Blade of Blood, Wand of Whimsy, Plague Flail, Witstealer Sword
1- Firestorm Blade. Magic Weapon, grants +1 Strength and Flaming Attacks.
2- Cleaving Blow. The bearer's close combat attacks gain Multiple Wounds (D3).
3- Crushing Mass. The bearer gains Impact Hits (D6).
4- Witchbane. If an enemy Wizard Miscasts while the bearer is on the board, you may force your opponent to reroll the result on the Miscast Table.
5- Noxious Breath. The bearer gains a S2 Breath Weapon that ignores Armour Saves.
6- Destroyer. The bearer must reroll all misses in close combat.

Greater- 50pts
0- Choose from Eye of the Gods**, Axe of Khorne, Staff of Change, Balesword, Lash of Despair
1- Dark Blessing. The bearer must reroll all failed Ward Saves
2- Corpulence. The bearer gains +1 Wound.
3- Impenetrable Hide. The bearer gains +1 Toughness.
4- Souleater. At the end of any close combat phase in which the bearer causes an unsaved Wound, regain a single lost Wound.
5- Radiance of Dark Majesty. The bearer generates an Inspiring Presence of 6" that affects Daemons of any alignment.
6- Favour of the Four. The bearer and his unit are never affected by any result on the Reign of Chaos Table that causes Wounds, Instability Checks or penalties to their Ward Saves.

Exalted- 75pts
0- Choose from Eternal Blade, Portalglyph, Chromatic Tome, Unholy Covenant***.
1- Aura of Disruption. Any Dispel attempt made while the bearer is on the table receives an additional 'free' Dispel dice.
2- Sorcerous Lodestone. Every time a spell is successfully cast, roll a D6. The bearer regains a single lost wound on a 5+.
3- Bringer of the Swarm. At the end of any close combat phase in which the bearer caused an unsaved Wound, a new unit of Furies is created that consists of one Fury for every Wound inflicted by the bearer. This unit must be placed within 6" of the bearer and is worth 0 Victory Points.
4- Anathema. Every attack against the bearer that rolls a '1' to hit (after rerolls) is resolved against the attacking model instead.
5- Red Fury. If the bearer kills an enemy model in close combat, it immediately gains an additional Attack. These extra Attacks do not benefit from Red Fury.
6- Prophet of the End Times. The bearer gains a Locus of their God, chosen by the controlling player. This then affects all Daemons of the same alignment within 6".

Khorne- 25pts
0- Common Magic Weapon of up to 25pts.
1- Deny the Witch. The bearer may attempt to Channel Dispel dice and will succeed on a 4+.
2- Talisman of Burning Blood. The bearer and his unit may reroll failed Charge attempts.
3- Spellbreaker. The bearer may attempt to Dispel enemy spells as though it were a Level 2 Wizard.

Slaanesh
0- Common Magic Armour of up to 25pts.
1- Domination. At the start of the close combat phase, the bearer may force an enemy model to take a Leadership test. If failed, the Daemons player may allocate it's attacks this turn as though it were under his control.
2- Aura of Acquiescence. All enemy units in contact with the bearer gain Always Strike Last.
3- Fuelled by Pain. Every time the bearer suffers an unsaved Wound, even if later recovered, it gains +1 Attack to a maximum of 10.

Tzeentch
0- Common Arcane Item of up to 25pts.
1- Master of Sorcery. The bearer may elect to change his Spell Lore. He forgets all spells generated from his chosen Lore and instead generates a new spell list from any Lore in the rulebook.
2- Wandering Mind. The bearer may pick any Lore from the rulebook and gain the Signature Spell in addition to their usual Spells.
3- Precognition. In the controlling players turn the bearer may reroll a single D6 used in a casting attempt, or to determine the effects of a successfully cast spell.

Nurgle
0- Common Enchanted Item of up to 25pts.
1- Noxious Touch. The bearers close combat attacks Wound on a 2+ regardless of the enemies Toughness.
2- Zombify. Roll a D6 for all enemies killed by the bearer in close combat. Every roll of a 4+ spawns a new Plaguebearer model as described under the 'Children of Nurgle' Lore Attribute.
3- Pandemic Staff. The bearer may cast 'The Withering' from the Lore of Shadow as a Bound Spell of Power Level 12. The Spell loses it's normal Spell Attribute.


*Chaos Armour. Magic Armour. Confers a 4+ Armour Save.
**Eye of the Gods. The bearer gains a 4+ Ward Save.
***Unholy Covenant. Once per turn, the bearer may inflict a Wound against themselves to automatically dispel an enemy Spell. This cannot be used against a Spell cast with Irresistible Force.


Note- The decision to give Slaanesh Magic Armour and Nurgle Enchanted Items, came about as a game decision rather than a fluffy one. I simply have no desire to see a Great Unclean One stacking Glittering Scales with the Eternal Blade and Daemon of Nurgle.

Nice ideas. Multiply the price by 4 or 5, and they can fit into play.

This is a s%$@ load better gift system then what's implemented in the current book. Too bad we can't have something like this. Correct me if i'm wrong but Precognition if i'm reading it right seems to be like a book of hoeth that you can only use when casting? And you can use it on each spell right?

@Keysersoze. I admit that's not the response I was expecting, could you be more specific as to which ones are undercosted?

@nathan2004. Perhaps the wording is a bit vague. I mean that you get a single reroll per turn, to use on:
- Casting a spell
- Determining the Strength of a Tzeentch spell
- Determining the number of hits caused by a spell
- Determining the penalty to a stat caused by a Hex

etc. You'd get one reroll each turn, and it would be for a single D6. Strictly when casting, no Dispel utility.

I'm going to be a jerk and not read it because it's too long and complex and I think I have a better "solution" that will be balanced.

1. Remove the option of Exalted Doubly Blessed.
2. Choose gift(s).
3. Done.

They have already confirmed the gifts there are balanced at the point values they listed, because they put them there. Yes, some will fall by the wayside, but you ended up taking weapons if you got something poopy anyway. I think that is an extremely simple answer and adds a lot of viability to DoC.

Master of Sorcery should read "The Daemon can generate his spells from any one of the lores in the Warhammer Rulebook."

Also Exalted Gifts should be 75 pts a pop.

I miss Master of Sorcery and would gladly pay 25 pts to be able to generate my spells from any of the lores in the rulebook.

I love this list. I would only clean up the way some of them are writen, a few are very wordy. ex: 6- Destroyer. The bearer must reroll all misses in close combat; could just say Eternal Hatred. same thing less long windedness.

Unholy Covenant is STUPIDLY Strong...

You can quite easily shut down an entire magic phase... Which is Super important for Vampires, Tomb Kings and Skaven (to a lesser extent, but I want to cast Cracks Call each turn )

I don't think it's quite so bad, since:
- It's one-use per turn and so it normally won't take the entire phase
- It can only ever be taken on a Lord and takes Wounds every time it activates. You are basically sacrificing 80+ points in Daemon Wounds every time you use it, so it'll cost you a fair bit. It's there for any trade where 80pts of Lord-Wounds are still cheaper than the damage the spell would do.

Many thanks for the feedback so far,

Can only Lord Daemons take Exalted Gifts in Fantasy then?


Shows I know jack gak of what I'm on about

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Can only Lord Daemons take Exalted Gifts in Fantasy then?


Shows I know jack gak of what I'm on about

They're 75 points...

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Can only Lord Daemons take Exalted Gifts in Fantasy then?


Shows I know jack gak of what I'm on about

They're 75 points...

This still means nothing to me.

 Bloodhorror wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Can only Lord Daemons take Exalted Gifts in Fantasy then?


Shows I know jack gak of what I'm on about

They're 75 points...

This still means nothing to me.

It means they're 'Lords only' options, just like every other 51+ pts Magic Item item in the game...

Ah right.

My apologies I haven't read all the Army books.

The only ones I've read are the Skaven and Beastmen ones.