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Going to start up some Cygnar because I like the 'ranged' playstyle and color/aesthetic of the models. I don't need a power build or optimized list...just looking for some decent shooting and perhaps a jack or two to hold off assaults. Here is a list of what interests me, can you please help me find some other units that'll go well with them for 35 or so point list goal.

eHaley - Love the model and general idea of her powers
ATGM + UA
Black 13
Defender

From here I don't know where to go...so this is where I'll take advice. As I said, I'd like a jack or two that can hold ground well enough and one that can punch those Khador jacks' defenses.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Well you are off to a good start. For jacks, eHaley also likes a stormclad for long distance pain (and I don't mean shooting, I mean that mean machine flying half way across the board and laying down pain), Thorn/a lancer for an arc node (all the better to telekinesis you with), or a stormwall.

The ATGM can babysit the defender, it likes their rune shots quite a lot. Black 13th are the Black 13th, great rules but sadly rubbish models (in terms of scale).

As to a 35 point list, I'm heading off to bed so if no one else provides one I'll have a stab. My experience with eHaley mostly revolves around one of the worse theme forces out there, so my help may be limited

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Going to start up some Cygnar because I like the 'ranged' playstyle and color/aesthetic of the models. I don't need a power build or optimized list...just looking for some decent shooting and perhaps a jack or two to hold off assaults. Here is a list of what interests me, can you please help me find some other units that'll go well with them for 35 or so point list goal.

eHaley - Love the model and general idea of her powers
ATGM + UA
Black 13
Defender

From here I don't know where to go...so this is where I'll take advice. As I said, I'd like a jack or two that can hold ground well enough and one that can punch those Khador jacks' defenses.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Well, you may not feel the need for a powerful list (though this is much of what Warmachine is about) but congratulations, between eHaley B13, and Gunmages you've picked up some of the most universally powerful things in Cygnar.

Things to consider generally:

-Journeyman Warcaster
-Squire
-Boomhowler & Comapny (Merc unit)
-Stormwall
-Stormclad

eHaley is relatively versatile as casters go, so you've probably got some choices. Some of the above are the biggest entries in the general Cygnar toolbox though.

Also eHaley's feat has single handedly been responsible for people quitting the game. It's that good (don't let that scare you off, but she is regarded as an un-fun caster to fight against, although since you're a new player that should be mitigated quite a bit).

That said, to get the best out of it, you really need to know how your opponent's army works. Since you can plan their activation order, you need to know the worst way for them to activate their models!

eHaley actually works better with a Stormclad or Stormwall. Her bond and spells make melee jacks rock.

Otherwise I am going to give you a big warning right now. Gunlines don't win alot of games if you play any sort of scenario or use terrain. Combined arms is the way to go.

So with that said I'd add a melee unit to your mix that you have. Maybe Boomhowlers or Precursors or some other jamming/tanking unit.

Neither Boomhowlers nor Precurser Knights are really a decent melee unit. They're durable to be sure, but they aren't going to take down Jacks or Beasts by themselves.

Forge Guard and/or an Ironclad would be more along the lines of a true melee threat to finish off hard targets.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Also eHaley's feat has single handedly been responsible for people quitting the game. It's that good (don't let that scare you off, but she is regarded as an un-fun caster to fight against, although since you're a new player that should be mitigated quite a bit).

eHaley's feat is one where you need to really know how to mess up your opponents turn, which means what is the worst order to activate stuff in. So its much less effective in the hands of a new player than an experienced one.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Neither Boomhowlers nor Precurser Knights are really a decent melee unit. They're durable to be sure, but they aren't going to take down Jacks or Beasts by themselves.

Well, I did say to get a Stormclad or Stormwall first. Either of those are more than capable of dealing some serious damage, especially since they are likely to be bonded. I also said those two units are good jammers/tanky units. Their purpose usually is to absorb hits, not deal them out.

That said, the Precursors have their minifeat which essentially gives them weaponmaster for a turn while also ignoring any spells that buff the target. That's enough to deal with a unit of heavy infantry or a jack/beast. And usually you are only going to really have one turn to do much damage. And Boomies have CMA which gives them some options of dealing with tougher opponents. No neither are designed to be damage dealers, but that is not their main job. Their job is to protect all the damage dealers and support.

Chongara got most of the other recommended pieces, I'm going to go ahead and add Arlan Strangeways, and Stormsmith Stormcallers to that list. Arlan is great for giving out a focus to whatever JR is marshalling (was usually a Hunter for me when I was playing Cygnar), and also useful with his high repair skill. The Stormcallers are one way to deal with specific problem models, especially stealth solos, but they are somewhat (paper armor) vulnerable. Still, when they work they work very well.

Thanks all for the advice, I'll start sifting through and go from there. Picked up the rule book last night and thumbed through it and came to the conclusion that I want to invest in a Thorn...is this a good option? I haven't seen it mentioned yet.

So I made a list on Builder and came up with:

EHaley + Squire
Defender
Thorn
Hunter
ATGM + UA
Black 13

I know I don't have any Units that can tie up for close combat...but hoped that the jacks could do that well enough with those I choose?

Again, I'm new...so if this is super sucktastic...that's why.

derek wrote:Chongara got most of the other recommended pieces, I'm going to go ahead and add Arlan Strangeways, and Stormsmith Stormcallers to that list. Arlan is great for giving out a focus to whatever JR is marshalling (was usually a Hunter for me when I was playing Cygnar), and also useful with his high repair skill. The Stormcallers are one way to deal with specific problem models, especially stealth solos, but they are somewhat (paper armor) vulnerable. Still, when they work they work very well.

Jr is a warcaster not a marshal. So doesn't work well with Strangeways. Use Strangeways with the ATGM, himself or with your caster to help a jack run.

Farseer Faenyin wrote:Thanks all for the advice, I'll start sifting through and go from there. Picked up the rule book last night and thumbed through it and came to the conclusion that I want to invest in a Thorn...is this a good option? I haven't seen it mentioned yet.

So I made a list on Builder and came up with:

EHaley + Squire
Defender
Thorn
Hunter
ATGM + UA
Black 13

I know I don't have any Units that can tie up for close combat...but hoped that the jacks could do that well enough with those I choose?

Again, I'm new...so if this is super sucktastic...that's why.

a melee jack may work a little but most lists have plenty of ways to clear out a jack. If you do this a centurion is your best bet. But you are going to want some melee troops to protect your guns. There are way too many ways to shut down shooting in the game. And you need things that can take and hold objectives.

 Mordekiem wrote:

derek wrote:Chongara got most of the other recommended pieces, I'm going to go ahead and add Arlan Strangeways, and Stormsmith Stormcallers to that list. Arlan is great for giving out a focus to whatever JR is marshalling (was usually a Hunter for me when I was playing Cygnar), and also useful with his high repair skill. The Stormcallers are one way to deal with specific problem models, especially stealth solos, but they are somewhat (paper armor) vulnerable. Still, when they work they work very well.

Jr is a warcaster not a marshal. So doesn't work well with Strangeways. Use Strangeways with the ATGM, himself or with your caster to help a jack run.

Terrible term usage on my part, I should have said controlling. Generally I'm using JR to swap around AS if needed, so I don't always have him handing out focus, and Strangeways was a good backup, but he is also a good backup for any jack that isn't getting focus from some source.

Alright, should I swap out the Hunter or one of the shooting units to try to bring in the mele Unit needed to provide the necessary skirmishing ability for the list?

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Alright, should I swap out the Hunter or one of the shooting units to try to bring in the mele Unit needed to provide the necessary skirmishing ability for the list?

Thorn is a fine choice particulary given eHaleys powerful offensive spells. That said if you wind up buying the starter set, it's probably not worth the investment ($-wise) out of the gate over the standard lancer. The hunter is a good 'Jack too.

The list you've built here is certainly functional. The issue is it's probably one that is a bit trickier to pilot.

You can clear dudes just fine with your pistol users. You've got limited armor cracking, but if you can manage some clever use of Thunderbolt + Deadeye to push bigger things back and knock them down and some nice timing on the feat you should probably be able to handle heavies if the list isn't skewing them hard. Just by virtue of the fact that you can probably force a 2-3 turns of shooting into them before they can effectively retaliate.

I mean it's certainly not tuned as tight as it could be but it has game. Just keep in mind that the learning curve on it may be a bit higher than others. If you're learning with other new players using more straightforward lists it may be a fair while before your skills catch up to your tools.

This is particularly true when the starter boxes are often package with straight-forwarded fixers with easy gimmicks, like pKreoss or pDenny.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Alright, should I swap out the Hunter or one of the shooting units to try to bring in the mele Unit needed to provide the necessary skirmishing ability for the list?

It's not a bad army to learn the game on. But there are definitely ways to tighten it up. It looks like you were going for 35 points, but only have 32 if my maths is right.

IMO, at this point level and with all the guns I would probably drop Thorn and add a melee unit. You probably aren't going to throw around a ton of spells. Otherwise maybe downgrade to a lancer and drop the hunter.

Though if my math is right you can drop the hunter and then get a full unit of Boomhowlers since you are short 3 points. Otherwise 11 points will get you pretty much any full melee unit and attachments and maybe even a solo to go with them.

so maybe something like this:

Major Victoria Haley5
Thorn8
Defender9
Squire2
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts)6
Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer2
Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team4
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts)9

But really, play the list a bit and see how it goes. All those units you listed are good and will see table time as you get better so you are not wasting money.

Alright, here is my last idea...then I'm just gonna go with somethimng similar to Mord's last idea since it mirrors close to my own. Here is my last 35pt build I tried to make:

eHaley
Thorn
Ironclad
Squire
ATGM + UA
Sword Knights + UA
Sentinel

Sword Knights and Sentinel are not my prime choices, but points get tight if I want a melee unit and another jack with what I have left after the top 5 on the list(even the Ironclad was a shave to fit the extra unit+jack.

Thanks again all for the help...and sorry for dragging this on!

I think you are still 3 points short...

And You'll probably be much happier with B13 than the sentinel. And I'd keep the Stormclad instead of the Ironclad with those 3 extra points.

For list building might I suggest forward Kommander?
http://www.forwardkommander.com/

Might help you make sure the points are all correct.

Yup, 3 points short.

But I would take a Hunter instead of the Sentinal and have the Gun Mage UA(AKA: The Dude!) Marshal it instead of the Sword Knights.

The Dude gives his marshalled jack their Rune Shots. And its most powerful on the Hunter.

With the last point you can get a Stormcaller. Disruption on a stick, plus a very accurate moderate pow hit is always nice.

Sword Knights don´t need their UA unless you let them use their marshall ability. They work pretty nice with a Firefly becaus it´s the cheapest Jack with reach, combined with the SK´s UA you can get a lot of flank attacks in. That´s a pretty decent module for its cost.
At 35 points I find it hard to take Thorn. He´s good but the cheaper regular Lancer will suffice most of the time.

Hmm, my Army Builder says my list is 35pts. Fething thing.

If I do indeed have 3 more points, that simplifies my life a good bit. Then I can get the Hunter in leiu of the Sentinel and/or Defender instead of the Ironclad depending on if I pull the UA off of the Stormblades. Thanks much for the help.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Trying to keep away Mercs for the time being, mono-Cygnar theme. So:

Major Victoria Haley55
Thorn8
Stormclad10
Squire2
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts)6
Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer2
Hunter6
Stormblade Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts)5
Stormsmith Stormcaller1

-OR-

Major Victoria Haley55
Sentinel4
Stormclad10
Squire2
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts)6
Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer2
Hunter6
Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team4
Stormblade Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts)5
Stormsmith Stormcaller1

P.S - Thanks for the website info.

Take list 1 but swap Thorn for the regular lancer and cut the storm caller so you can take the Storm Blade UA. It makes them way better due to granting assault.

 tommse wrote:
Take list 1 but swap Thorn for the regular lancer and cut the storm caller so you can take the Storm Blade UA. It makes them way better due to granting assault.

I concur. That'd be a better list.

It really looks solid btw, I guess I´ll steal it for my next game xD

I like list one but would drop the Hunter and Stormsmith and get:-

Jnr - Arcance Shield and boosted Hand Cannon Shots
Arlan - Power Booster, Evasive and Repair are good
Rhupert - For all the lovely things he brings like, Pathfinder, Tough etc to Cygnars units

Alright, I've played a few test games, and here are the two lists I think I really like. Any feedback would be great.

Major Victoria Haley
- Lancer
- Defender
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts)
- Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer
- Hunter
Stormblade Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts)
- Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard
Journeyman Warcaster

--OR--

Major Victoria Haley
- Lancer
- Stormclad
- Squire
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts)
- Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer
- Hunter
Stormblade Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts)
- Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard

If you're going to run a Lancer with Haley, you should just get Thorn(her character Lancer)

Aside from that, it looks like a start.

Lancer (or thorn) Stormclad and squire are pretty standard for eHaley.

Squire helps her land spells and increases her control area, greatly increasing her feat coverage.

A bonded Stormclad has a long threat range and the extra focus and TA can give him two extra attacks with that beautiful reach, high POW sword.

Lancer or Thorn is pretty obvious. Though for Thorn he can do some crazy movement shenanigans. And the ability to arc while engaged is very useful.

I would defo get stormblades to go with the Stromclad. Aside form being a very heavily damaging unit they give the jack another focus point and Haley's spells fit well with them.

Your 2nd list is really solid. Thorn can be a great choice because of his mobility, however a regular Lancer can fill the same role he does if you are willing to lose the mobility.

Wise use of the spell Telekinesis (TK) can replicate that and prevent charges by moving a model and turning it to face away from your whole army. Models can only charge in their front 180 degree arc. Add in the spell Timebomb and in small games you're preventing most armies from getting charges on you. Gun Mages can use Thunderbolt rounds to push models and/or knock them down on crits.

Your build has a lot of ability to control or hamper your opponents.

I've played Cygnar for 11 years, and I've been a PG for 10. eHaley is also one of my top 3 favorite casters. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss army builds or about the game in general.