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Hi all,

I will be attending a tournament at my FLG which will be comprised of some of the best 16 players at the club.

Rules are.
1250 points
No: escalation, stronghold, dataslates, Knights or other super heavies.
200 points of forgeworld max.

Unpainted+based models will incur penalties (-1 armor save/-1invulnerable save/-1 armor value (all facings)

Bonus points equal to one win for Themed armies (I'm going for the full battlesuit army theme supported by its forward scout tetras which are basically pathfinders in faster suits!)
Bonus points equal to a draw for WYSIWYG

From what I can see there's a few armies i really have to worry about. Namely IG with multiple Sabre Platforms, I'm almost positive there will be at east 3 armies using these (including my best friend who I play the majority of my games against and knows my tactics well)

HQ
(165) Commander - Missile pod (x2); Target lock; Drone controller; The Talisman of Arthas Moloch; Marker drone (x1)

Elites
(235)Riptide Heavy burst cannon; Twin-linked SMS; Early warning override; Earth Caste Pilot Array, Velocity Tracker

(225) Riptide Ion Accelorator; Twin-linked Fusion Blaster; Early warning override; Stimulant Injector

Troops
(198) Crisis x3; x6 Plasma Rifles; x3 Shield Drones; 1x Advanced Targeting
(53) Crisis x1; x2 Fusion Blasters
(53) Crisis x1; x2 Fusion Blasters
(53) Crisis x1; Air Bursting Fragmentation Projector + Cyclic Ion Blaster

Fast Attack
(56) Marker Drones x4 (joins commander)
(35) Tetra Scout Speeder
(35) Tetra Scout Speeder

Heavy Support
(71) Broadside; HYMP; Early warning override, SMS
(71) Broadside; HYMP; Early warning override, SMS

Total 1250 (points include bonded)

The real problem i can see is armies like IG with a lot of interceptor due to Sabres and high strength low AP las cannon shots instant killing my crisis suits as soon as they arrive via deepstrike. So far, apart from landing behind terrain which would mean the fusions wont be able to perform their job, taking out AV targets, i cant see any real way to counter such lists.

Any ideas! There must be something I haven't thought of right?

Perhaps, deep strike out of LOS to the las cannons, then next turn move up and kill the vehicles. That will also force them concentrate their army on the immediate threat of fusion blasters, in turn saving some of you other units from be shot, or at least being shot at full BS.
Obviously this only applies if you have good LOS blocking terrain.

I can't think of anything else ATM lol

Yeah this lol ^ that works better than my idea

Be ballsy with your riptides. Give them the 3+ inv instead of the bigger gun. It makes them extremely durable, especially with feel no pain.

You could also ditch a broadside and the last suit, turn it into a sky ray. Get the tetras up fast, hit the sabre platforms and then use the marker lights to lob seeker missiles at it. You'll hit on twos that way, glance on twos. I don't know how you feel about it, but the seeker missiles also ignore cover and have indirect fire to go with a 72" range attack.

Those are my ideas for it, that would free your other suits to do the jobs you want them to do.

I love Broadsides (I'm running 12 at 1500) but I don't think they fit this list. Get Missile crisissuits instead. Basically you shouldn't buy broadsides until your troops are full.

I don't like the suit with the 2 unique weapons. One is for killing light tanks the other for horde control. I'd say your Horde control is the weakness overall but that might not be relevant depending on meta. A solution is between the Iontide and rending you're not bad for AP2 so perhaps swap the plasma squad for a unit with double burstcannons 6 gun drones and one drone controller. Its only 209 points and pumps out 36 S5 shots averaging 20 hits without ML support they rape just about everything.

Overall I quite like it. Mark'o is good and Riptide loadouts are good.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I love Broadsides (I'm running 12 at 1500) but I don't think they fit this list. Get Missile crisissuits instead. Basically you shouldn't buy broadsides until your troops are full.

What he said

You're suiciding a lot of your scoring at the moment (Fusion, Plasma). Missile Pod Crisis suits allow you to play them less aggresively and concentrate them more on objectives.

Also, Broadsides are far too static in what is otherwise a fast list.

People rely on the missilesides to way much. Yes they are a big threat to anything within a 36" range bubble, but a single lascannon shot and you're out 65+ points. If you use them, stick them with drones to soak up most of the fire, and it also allows them to move more frequently. You have more missiles to fire, yes at BS 2, but it's better than hitting on 6+, and with TL on your sides, you have a better chance on hitting. the only thing that you have to do with that is give them the bonding knife ritual so they don't have to take heroic leadership if you have some bad saving rolls

Also, when more tournaments start allowing knights, those missilesides are as good as scrap metal. That 48" melta shot will just destroy any broadside team, especially if you have limited cover, and it will only take three wounds to take them down with instant death.

I have used them, and had them used against me, so I know what they are capable of. They really aren't easy to deal with if you don't plan for it, but with tau most people are now expecting this sort of thing. Mix it up on them. I used to go multiple Hammerheads with the submunition rounds, but went to Sky Rays recently after seeing how hard it is to deal with mas AV 14 (guard have way too many vehicles on the board). Yes railguns are good at dealing with them, but it's only a single shot that may miss entirely or not do damage and with 6+ AV 14 tanks, there isn't a lot you can do to stop it but melta spam. But that's a rant for another post that I won't go farther into unless asked about specifically.

Either way, I go Sky Rays now. Good for taking out those pesky flyers, saves you points on velocity tracker for units, allows yo to hit flyers more easily with it's markerlights and skyfire, does pretty well against MC, and when it's seeker missiles are gone, you still have a markerlight platform with BS 4 with a mobile cover save of 5+, or 4+ if you pay fifteen points.

Bartali also makes a valid point, you don't really have enough scoring. I think that last crisis suit was for keeping objectives, but it's not enough. Try and fit a small kroot squad in if you have the models and if at all possible, a small fire warrior team, I find that they are really good with crowd control and kroot are just cheap scoring, and if you don't need them to score outflank to disrupt enemy scoring. If you need more points, don't bother with the last broadside unless you have more, it's just an easy kill by itself.

With your best friend there, it pays to use new stuff that he won't be expecting. Especially if he is going to be using the same stuff, because you'll know what he'll do, but he has no idea what you'll do

Kazekatta wrote:
People rely on the missilesides to way much. Yes they are a big threat to anything within a 36" range bubble, but a single lascannon shot and you're out 65+ points. If you use them, stick them with drones to soak up most of the fire, and it also allows them to move more frequently. You have more missiles to fire, yes at BS 2, but it's better than hitting on 6+, and with TL on your sides, you have a better chance on hitting. the only thing that you have to do with that is give them the bonding knife ritual so they don't have to take heroic leadership if you have some bad saving rolls

It's swings and roundabouts with Drones.

1 Broadside + Two Drones - kill one drone and the unit is making a Morale check. You can mititgate this with an allied Etheral, but then your building for a static firebase. Something more suited for a Tau Empire primary.

I really do think for Farsight Enclaves you can't go far wrong with just Crisis Suits and Riptides (with perhaps Skyrays in HS).

Awesome advice guys. Sorry for my slow reply. Im going to try and reply to each comment now

No idea how to quote yet, but Bartali 1 Broadside+2 Drones = 3 Broadsides in model count. and an instant kill still loses one model, which will still have you taking a moral check. I'm just staying that if you keep the drones up front, they take the shots that can instant kill, or soak up some fire from other units first, keeping your broadsides alive longer than if the were by themselves.

So some great feed back. Thanks for all the comments.

IXLoiero95XI wrote:Perhaps, deep strike out of LOS to the las cannons, then next turn move up and kill the vehicles. That will also force them concentrate their army on the immediate threat of fusion blasters, in turn saving some of you other units from be shot, or at least being shot at full BS.
Obviously this only applies if you have good LOS blocking terrain.

I can't think of anything else ATM lol

This is exactly what i use the tetras for. According to the Tau codex homing beacons unlike Space Marine Teleport homers do not need to be on the table before they are used. I tend to outflank the tetras(hence having 2 for odds of getting at least 1) then deep strike within 6 for no deepstrike scatter for the fusion suits to target armor. At this point level its great as the board is only 4x4 giving a 12" radius from each board edge to come on. Downside is that i am relying on reserve rolls and staying out of LoS of sabres and other interceptors.

Kazekatta wrote:Be ballsy with your riptides. Give them the 3+ inv instead of the bigger gun. It makes them extremely durable, especially with feel no pain.

You could also ditch a broadside and the last suit, turn it into a sky ray. Get the tetras up fast, hit the sabre platforms and then use the marker lights to lob seeker missiles at it. You'll hit on twos that way, glance on twos. I don't know how you feel about it, but the seeker missiles also ignore cover and have indirect fire to go with a 72" range attack.

Those are my ideas for it, that would free your other suits to do the jobs you want them to do.

Using the riptides as a fire magnet, especially the FnP one was my original plan to protect the Crisis suits.

A few reasons I want to use broadsides really:

1) I dont own any more Crisis suits. All my Crisis are the forgeworld XV89's and are quite expensive and take a while to come on order (even in the UK).
2) If I use anything but XV suits i would loose my themed points. Thats equal to one whole win in this tournament. (sort of a optional restriction with a reward)
3) I do own a sky ray and this was one of my options but as a poster below states i am low on anti-infantry and thats the real use of these broadsides, the HYMP and SMS together and excellent anti troop even if a little static. On a 4x4 board if they set up correctly pretty much have all the range they need.
4)Broadsides dont melt to Heldrakes (common in my meta) the same way Crisis do....but they do melt jus the same to Las cannons. One of my biggest problems. At least i can get cover from that.
5) With enough markerlights moving Broadsides isnt such as issue as you can just boost them back up if really needed.

FlingitNow wrote:I love Broadsides (I'm running 12 at 1500) but I don't think they fit this list. Get Missile crisissuits instead. Basically you shouldn't buy broadsides until your troops are full.

I don't like the suit with the 2 unique weapons. One is for killing light tanks the other for horde control. I'd say your Horde control is the weakness overall but that might not be relevant depending on meta. A solution is between the Iontide and rending you're not bad for AP2 so perhaps swap the plasma squad for a unit with double burstcannons 6 gun drones and one drone controller. Its only 209 points and pumps out 36 S5 shots averaging 20 hits without ML support they rape just about everything.

Overall I quite like it. Mark'o is good and Riptide loadouts are good.

I have been deliberating on the suit with the 2 special weapons myself. The reasons i take it are 2 fold. Firstly with 2 potential blasts (one small S8 and one large ignoring cover barrage) its really good at taking out infantry and was my pseudo answer to horde armies a swell as another scoring unit. Secondly as a single model its also easy to hide. But i see your point. For less points i could equip it with a TL burst cannon/burst cannon or TL flamer/flamer. Would this be a better idea?

Kazekatta wrote:People rely on the missilesides to way much. Yes they are a big threat to anything within a 36" range bubble, but a single lascannon shot and you're out 65+ points. If you use them, stick them with drones to soak up most of the fire, and it also allows them to move more frequently. You have more missiles to fire, yes at BS 2, but it's better than hitting on 6+, and with TL on your sides, you have a better chance on hitting. the only thing that you have to do with that is give them the bonding knife ritual so they don't have to take heroic leadership if you have some bad saving rolls

Also, when more tournaments start allowing knights, those missilesides are as good as scrap metal. That 48" melta shot will just destroy any broadside team, especially if you have limited cover, and it will only take three wounds to take them down with instant death.

I have used them, and had them used against me, so I know what they are capable of. They really aren't easy to deal with if you don't plan for it, but with tau most people are now expecting this sort of thing. Mix it up on them. I used to go multiple Hammerheads with the submunition rounds, but went to Sky Rays recently after seeing how hard it is to deal with mas AV 14 (guard have way too many vehicles on the board). Yes railguns are good at dealing with them, but it's only a single shot that may miss entirely or not do damage and with 6+ AV 14 tanks, there isn't a lot you can do to stop it but melta spam. But that's a rant for another post that I won't go farther into unless asked about specifically.

Either way, I go Sky Rays now. Good for taking out those pesky flyers, saves you points on velocity tracker for units, allows yo to hit flyers more easily with it's markerlights and skyfire, does pretty well against MC, and when it's seeker missiles are gone, you still have a markerlight platform with BS 4 with a mobile cover save of 5+, or 4+ if you pay fifteen points.

Bartali also makes a valid point, you don't really have enough scoring. I think that last crisis suit was for keeping objectives, but it's not enough. Try and fit a small kroot squad in if you have the models and if at all possible, a small fire warrior team, I find that they are really good with crowd control and kroot are just cheap scoring, and if you don't need them to score outflank to disrupt enemy scoring. If you need more points, don't bother with the last broadside unless you have more, it's just an easy kill by itself.

With your best friend there, it pays to use new stuff that he won't be expecting. Especially if he is going to be using the same stuff, because you'll know what he'll do, but he has no idea what you'll do

This is a strange situation. A knight can only fire at 1 target per turn with its big gun. On the one hand loosing a broadside is never good but if my opponant wants to waste a turn shooting at a single model that in ruins has at least a 50% chance to survive on a 4+ in ruins thats not too bad either (not taking into account the chance it may miss or roll a 1 to wound). If they are taking knights, odds are the rest of their army are less dangerous scoring units which arnt as much of a threat. Las cannons on the other hand rip it apart.

If i take drones to protect it i have to take a moral every time i loose one, if i dont a single las cannon can kill it. But as i said before they are needed or anti infantry in this list. Taking missile Crisis would be ideal but for a similar amount of points i would gain speed but loose the 2+ and SMS and volume of TL missile pods. Is it worth it?

Kroot are awesome and If this wasnt a themed list i would take them for sure, extra scoring and snipers would be a win.

As for hammerheads. Longstrike is awesome for IG tanks. Reroll to hit but with BS5 you rarely need to or reroll to pen then with take hunter you can reroll the damage table all while ignoring night fight and cover with a few markerlights. Shame he can be taken down with 1 shot. And soem the same reasons as above, if i take a hammer head i loose the themed points hence my dilemma.

As for my friend, im just hoping I dont come up against him in the tournament. If i do it will be a tough match up.

Bartali wrote:

Kazekatta wrote:
People rely on the missilesides to way much. Yes they are a big threat to anything within a 36" range bubble, but a single lascannon shot and you're out 65+ points. If you use them, stick them with drones to soak up most of the fire, and it also allows them to move more frequently. You have more missiles to fire, yes at BS 2, but it's better than hitting on 6+, and with TL on your sides, you have a better chance on hitting. the only thing that you have to do with that is give them the bonding knife ritual so they don't have to take heroic leadership if you have some bad saving rolls

It's swings and roundabouts with Drones.

1 Broadside + Two Drones - kill one drone and the unit is making a Morale check. You can mititgate this with an allied Etheral, but then your building for a static firebase. Something more suited for a Tau Empire primary.

I really do think for Farsight Enclaves you can't go far wrong with just Crisis Suits and Riptides (with perhaps Skyrays in HS).

Totally agree with you here. Drones are a blessing and a curse but after looking at my options, having to take a moral test every time i loose one just wasn't worth it.. The problem with drones is i would have to find the points from elsewhere and that would mean loosing most likely a crisis suit when i am already low on scoring units.

Ideally i agree that i would need more Crisis suits at an above poster stated. A swap of 3 with missile pods would be awesome to replace the broardsides and blast crisis suit (I call him BB King! "big blast crisis!) its just a matter of owning more. I think you guys have helped me to spot my weaknesses well, Low scoring units and little anti horde. Given me a lot to think about. Atleat now i know my own pitfalls and can think of tactics to counter it.

One thing i should say. While play-testing this list after turn 2 the boardsides got very little attention as i tended to deepstrike the "suicide" crusis up close using the tetras and used the riptides as a fire magnet meaning my opponent usually had more important things to fire at and if all went well on the drop i usually took out their heavy hitters with the fusions leaving them gimped from turn 2/3 and allowing the broadsides to fire with almost impunity.

You could also give to broadsides seeker missiles for a couple extra hits on his sabres

Sabres being t7 and 3+ im not sure 2 seekers would be woth it if they miss or fail to wound its a total waste. Could get more out of 1 drone and precision shots on a crisis for for bypassing the sabre and killing the gunner behind it.

As for hammerheads. Longstrike is awesome for IG tanks. Reroll to hit but with BS5 you rarely need to or reroll to pen then with take hunter you can reroll the damage table all while ignoring night fight and cover with a few markerlights. Shame he can be taken down with 1 shot. And soem the same reasons as above, if I take a hammer head i loose the themed points hence my dilemma. 

Longstrike does NOT work like that. He gets a reroll on armour pen no other rerolls. He is not great at killing AV14 for his points at all. He has a less than 21% chance at killing an AV14 tank out in the open. So in 5 turns of shooting he should kill 1 AV14 tank on average. If you're taking Longstrike he should be on an Ionhead where you actually get to use his rules effectively. Railheads were not great tank hunters in the previous codex due to only having 1 shot why everyone seems to think they are great at it now is beyond me.

 FlingitNow wrote:

As for hammerheads. Longstrike is awesome for IG tanks. Reroll to hit but with BS5 you rarely need to or reroll to pen then with take hunter you can reroll the damage table all while ignoring night fight and cover with a few markerlights. Shame he can be taken down with 1 shot. And soem the same reasons as above, if I take a hammer head i loose the themed points hence my dilemma. 

Longstrike does NOT work like that. He gets a reroll on armour pen no other rerolls. He is not great at killing AV14 for his points at all. He has a less than 21% chance at killing an AV14 tank out in the open. So in 5 turns of shooting he should kill 1 AV14 tank on average. If you're taking Longstrike he should be on an Ionhead where you actually get to use his rules effectively. Railheads were not great tank hunters in the previous codex due to only having 1 shot why everyone seems to think they are great at it now is beyond me.

He called it a re-roll to hit against IG, because long strike has prefered enemy IG.

What this guy said ^. Need to read up bro

 Messy0 wrote:
Sabres being t7 and 3+ im not sure 2 seekers would be woth it if they miss or fail to wound its a total waste. Could get more out of 1 drone and precision shots on a crisis for for bypassing the sabre and killing the gunner behind it.

I read on the download from forgeworld and it said that they were immobile vehicles with AV 10 on all sides. Guess I was looking at the wrong thing, but the site was from forgeworld on the pdf downloads. And they didn't have interceptor, just skyfire. So I don't know if I found the right rules for them. I just looked up "Sabre Platform rules" and it was the first item on the page. Was using Google if you want to check. It was the third page of the pdf.

 IXLoiero95XI wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

As for hammerheads. Longstrike is awesome for IG tanks. Reroll to hit but with BS5 you rarely need to or reroll to pen then with take hunter you can reroll the damage table all while ignoring night fight and cover with a few markerlights. Shame he can be taken down with 1 shot. And soem the same reasons as above, if I take a hammer head i loose the themed points hence my dilemma. 

Longstrike does NOT work like that. He gets a reroll on armour pen no other rerolls. He is not great at killing AV14 for his points at all. He has a less than 21% chance at killing an AV14 tank out in the open. So in 5 turns of shooting he should kill 1 AV14 tank on average. If you're taking Longstrike he should be on an Ionhead where you actually get to use his rules effectively. Railheads were not great tank hunters in the previous codex due to only having 1 shot why everyone seems to think they are great at it now is beyond me.

He called it a re-roll to hit against IG, because long strike has prefered enemy IG.

Good point but still no reroll to the damage table as he claimed. The PE guard still only ups him to a 24.3% chance to kill a Russ so just under 1 in 4. Hardly makes a massive difference...

Hes also got tabk hunter. Isnt that reroll damage table?

No tank hunter allows you to re-roll armor penetration rolls, not the damage table.

Thanks for all the advice. I came 3rd over the weekend with this list out of 16 which i was super happy with only losing to a tenzeech list by 1 objective!