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Hello fellow Dakkadakkaians. With the release of the new Scion models I am a big fan of the look of them, however their "Militarium Tempestus" book fits perfectly for my Elysians from Forgeworld so I have decided to flex my creativity muscles and run a "Spec Ops" style army of Scions based around the fluff of the ODST's from the HALO franchise. Much like Navy Seals who fight with the US Army and other branches of the military the story behind these guys would be very similar. Idea is this:

-Will be run out of Codex Space Marines (or one of their supplements, am considering the Sentinels of Terra Book) so I can run a Drop Pod army to fit the ODST fluff.
-The Imperium of Man is vast and the amount of men and women that defend it is limitless. The 105th Irrland Rangers or "Punishers" are a Regiment that has no known homeworld, as it is made up of the best of the best from any number of Regiments across the Imperium. The Irrland Rangers (not original title I know so if you guys can think of one let me know!) are handpicked from the top men of in particular Airborne, Air Assault and Storm Trooper regiments the Imperium have at their disposal but will also take the best of other Regiments whenever possible.
-Their Mission, Spearhead assaults onto a planet or conduct raids, assaults and covert missions behind enemy lines.

Now with that brief fluff about them this is what I plan on doing in regards to modeling, to make them look as WYSIWYG as possible:

-Scions will be run as Space Marines. The up armored look of these guys really helps them look different from other IG models which can easily explain their 3+ armor save. In regards of their weapons I will keep the Hot Shot Lasguns, but cut away all the wires to give them the look of Spec Ops Autoguns.

-Converted look Imperial Knights to represent a Medium Assault Mech dropped from Orbit to support my army. I am planning on doing this conversion found here: http://www.spikeybitsblog.com/2012/06/how-to-stormtalon-assault-walker.html however I am considering using Imperial Knight legs instead of the intricate use of Dreadknight legs and such.

-The use of Forgeworld Models such as the Storm Eagle, Fire Raptor ect. to represent my Storm Ravens. Also am considering running these bad boys as Centurion Devastators to fit the fluff of a "human" spec ops army, however may just use the standard Centurion Models stripped down with different heads. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Mechanicum/Mechanicum_Troops/CASTELLAX_BATTLE_AUTOMATA.html

Let me know what you guys think in regards to what you think about the conversion idea, any ideas you feel that would make it better and what else I could utilize rule set, model and conversion wise to create this army. Thanks for your input!

Running one type of unit as another type of unit (scions = marines, storm eagles = raptors, castellax = centurions) can get reaaaaal confusing real fast, and I think would be frowned upon unless you put some serious elbow grease into converting them to NOT be their original units. Doubly so if youre running them as Elysians where people will be expecting IG/AM/MT rules (and honestly, I think the MT codex would fit ODST better than marines would)

Uparmour the scions with more plates, backpack swaps with powerplants, headswaps, the weapon conversions are a good idea, they should clearly not look like the T3, 4+ hellgun weilding models that they are.
Same goes for the others. Instead of using a storm eagle as a raven... just use it as a storm eagle. Or beef out a raven to look less like a toy airplane.
The castellax I think is a pretty poor match for centurions. Those things are bigger than dreadnoughts and have vastly different rules associated with them.

Fluff-wise...

The Stormtrooper Regiment is a self-contained, self-supporting organization created out of the best the Schola Progena system can provide. It does not "give" its soldiers to another IG regiment. It's also a heavy infantry/shock assault unit, designed to send a squad down to an active battleground and crack open an enemy fortification or defensive line in order to allow the massed forces of the Imperial Guard to widen that gap and then rout or destroy the enemy.

Space Marines are not "human". They were, once, but their extensive genetic reprogramming, additional organs, centuries of training, hypno-indoctrination and lifestyle has created more of an ab-human subspecies. They are, for warriors, better in every way to a regular human.

The IG does not form elite units by stripping troops from other elite units. Elysians don't go join other airborne units, except on short-term "train these dudes" type assignments (and even that is based on a BL novel, so take it with a grain of salt), for example, and the DM does not mash units together willy-nilly... it may take a couple units that are both under, say, 40% strength of similar types (like a scout unit here and a light infantry unit there) and make a new Regiment out of their combined forces, but if they already have an elite Regiment (like the Elysians), they don't stick people from other worlds that don't do what the Elysians do into the Elysian Regiments.


Fluff-and-Rules-wise...

Space Marines don't carry lasguns in their various Codices, so you're taking a beefy elite infantry unit and giving it a sub-par weapon. Using them as counts-as Space Marines would require you to outfit them with the wargear provided in C:SM or whatever Chapter's rules you are going to use for them, or having to explain to your opponent why your Space Marines are carrying flashlights, and missing the statline of the bolter. While it fits WYSIWYG to depict them with lasguns, there's no SM Codex that allows you to equip Space Marines with lasguns.

Rules-wise...

Pretty sure you're not allowed to equip troops from one Codex with the wargear of another troop-type from another Codex.

 Psienesis wrote:
Fluff-wise...

The Stormtrooper Regiment is a self-contained, self-supporting organization created out of the best the Schola Progena system can provide. It does not "give" its soldiers to another IG regiment. It's also a heavy infantry/shock assault unit, designed to send a squad down to an active battleground and crack open an enemy fortification or defensive line in order to allow the massed forces of the Imperial Guard to widen that gap and then rout or destroy the enemy.

Space Marines are not "human". They were, once, but their extensive genetic reprogramming, additional organs, centuries of training, hypno-indoctrination and lifestyle has created more of an ab-human subspecies. They are, for warriors, better in every way to a regular human.

The IG does not form elite units by stripping troops from other elite units. Elysians don't go join other airborne units, except on short-term "train these dudes" type assignments (and even that is based on a BL novel, so take it with a grain of salt), for example, and the DM does not mash units together willy-nilly... it may take a couple units that are both under, say, 40% strength of similar types (like a scout unit here and a light infantry unit there) and make a new Regiment out of their combined forces, but if they already have an elite Regiment (like the Elysians), they don't stick people from other worlds that don't do what the Elysians do into the Elysian Regiments.


Fluff-and-Rules-wise...

Space Marines don't carry lasguns in their various Codices, so you're taking a beefy elite infantry unit and giving it a sub-par weapon. Using them as counts-as Space Marines would require you to outfit them with the wargear provided in C:SM or whatever Chapter's rules you are going to use for them, or having to explain to your opponent why your Space Marines are carrying flashlights, and missing the statline of the bolter. While it fits WYSIWYG to depict them with lasguns, there's no SM Codex that allows you to equip Space Marines with lasguns.

Rules-wise...

Pretty sure you're not allowed to equip troops from one Codex with the wargear of another troop-type from another Codex.

You have seemed to have clearly missed the point on what I was getting at on both accounts:

-These guys would not be "Storm Troopers" gathering men from other Regiments. Rather it would be an Elite Regiment that proactively recruits from other Regiments, wether they be depleted due to combat or have been trained to their standards and recruited into it. This is in the Current Imperial Guard book where in an article a unit of Elyisan Drop Troops were combined with a Unit of Catachans to make an Elite "Jungle-Air Mobile" unit so it does happen. Also like other regiments such as the Vostroyans who only recruit from their homeworld, this Regiment Pro-Actively recruits the best of the best from other Regiments from Warzones or Schola Academies. So yes, the IG DOES form Regiments from leftovers of other Regiments, I am merely adding to the fact they recruit from Schola Academies as well. These are not Elyisans, but rather a stand alone Regiment, they just recruit heavily from such Regiments as they have the needed skill sets to become an ODST.

-These guys are not "Space Marines" as I have clearly stated, merely humans who have been trained extensively to the point that they are one of the BEST fighting units the Astra Militarium has to offer. Yes I would be utilizing Space Marine rules so I could use Drop Pods, however just because I am using the Space Marine rules does not make them Space Marines. If you were to go off of the Fluff all Space Marines would be the Stat Lines of the Primarchs found in the Horus Heresy. If you were to go off the rules literally, it would mean Veteran Guardsmen shoot just as well as a Space Marine! I am looking at these guys more as Super Elite humans then genetically created warriors with much better equipment, think of the scions on steroids if you will.

-If you paid attention to the first post I would be modifying the weapons to represent "autoguns" and not Hot Shot Lasguns, that was clearly overlooked. I don't understand where you got the idea I was trying to make one Codex wield anothers weapons. The Imperium of Man is vast which means there are probably some unique regiments out there that carry unique weapons. I think you are being way to literal about this and I don't say that to be rude, but it seems like you didn't really look into the first post very well or just ignored when I said I would be modeling to make them look as WYSIWYG as possible.

-Will be run out of Codex Space Marines (or one of their supplements, am considering the Sentinels of Terra Book) so I can run a Drop Pod army to fit the ODST fluff.

From a playability standpoint, you *are* using Space Marines. If you are costing these guys and stat-lining these guys out of Codex: Space Marines, then, regardless of the claim of "these are just really good humans"... you're playing a C:SM army. Crunch-wise, they're Space Marines. Carrying non-Space Marine wargear. Which is where the problem comes in, because C:SM does not allow for equipping C:SM units with lasguns. My SOB army can't just field a black & red Riptide because I feel like it and call it an Ecclesiastic Heresy Eliminator, using Codex: Tau Empire rules. The game... just doesn't work like that.

So unless your local group is cool with you smashing together two different Codices to create a single unit, you have a problem with your crunch here.

The fluff of the SM doesn't enter into it. SM don't have the crunch of a Primarch (they do have Primarch rules, after all)... and regular humans don't have the crunch of Space Marines... they have the crunch of IG soldiers, as their Codex indicates. If you wanted them to be "badasses but humans", that's what the IG Veterans are.

In regards of their weapons I will keep the Hot Shot Lasguns, but cut away all the wires to give them the look of Spec Ops Autoguns.

You implied here that you were using hot-shots, but "look like" autoguns. Doesn't really matter to me whether your lasguns look like autoguns or your autoguns look like lasguns, either way from a modeling standpoint is fine by me, but what matters to me is that Codex: Space Marines does not allow you to equip a Space Marine with an autogun. Or a lasgun for that matter. Again, we're back to my SOB fielding a Riptide piloted by Sisters Armorius that form like Voltron after morning prayers because I said so.

Especially if you wanted to maintain the stats of a hot-shot but claim that they are autoguns, which is also kind of iffy. That's like wanting melta performance out of a plasma weapon. Or Gauss Flayer performance out of a heavy stubber. Weapons that have an entry in a Codex need to follow the rules for that Codex. I don't get to stick markerlights and pulse-rifles on my Sisters because I don't play Codex: Tau Empire. My Sisters army is not a "counts as" Tau army, and if I wanted to play it as such, I would not get to keep my Faith Powers and other stats out of the AS Codex.

That's my main issue, and I think the issue that most people you would bring this army to play against would have, is that you're cherry-picking rules out of 2 or more Codices, and having something look like one thing but be another thing... and all that kind of thing gets really confusing for people who are used to an autogun working one way, but now being presented as working another way. If you want to have these models "count as" Space Marines and roll with an army built out of Codex: Space Marines, go right ahead. You can totally do that. If you wanted to use Space Marine models to "count as" some elite super-heavy infantry IG unit, but play out of Codex: Imperial Guard v2.0, using the rules from that, that's fine, go right ahead.

But having an army that is mixing rules for some models in the main detachment from this Codex with these other rules out of this other Codex on the same units in the main detachment... that's getting dodgy.

"It's an autogun, but it has the statline of a hot-shot las."
"Ok, so what's this guy over here got, a grenade launcher?"
"No, that's actually a missile launcher, it just isn't direct fire. It's got the stats of a ML but also has Ignore Cover, because it lobs things."
"Uh, ok, is that bayonet thing on these guys a counts-as CCW?"
"No, it's actually a range-finder, targeter and markerlight."
"Markerlights? So this is a Tau army?"
"No, it's IG being played out of Codex: Space Wolves... with markerlights, because they are super-well-equipped." "What?"

But having an army that is mixing rules for some models in the main detachment from this Codex with these other rules out of this other Codex on the same units in the main detachment... that's getting dodgy.

"It's an autogun, but it has the statline of a hot-shot las."
"Ok, so what's this guy over here got, a grenade launcher?"
"No, that's actually a missile launcher, it just isn't direct fire. It's got the stats of a ML but also has Ignore Cover, because it lobs things."
"Uh, ok, is that bayonet thing on these guys a counts-as CCW?"
"No, it's actually a range-finder, targeter and markerlight."
"Markerlights? So this is a Tau army?"
"No, it's IG being played out of Codex: Space Wolves... with markerlights, because they are super-well-equipped." "What?"

Um I still don't understand what kind of argument you are trying to make as I have never claimed to be doing anything of the sort with any of these conversions, and these are clearly exaggerations of what I want to do. If your going to post things like that please keep it relative to my conversion instead of posting a bunch of stuff that isn't relevant. All I said I was trying to do was to convert the Hot Shot Las to look like an "Autogun" which are common in the 40k universe to better make it fit the profile of a bolter. I am NOT mixing rules as you so claim (I don't even understand where you got that from), I am running solely Space Marines rules with this army, all I am doing is using the Scions instead of Space Marines and making some conversions to their Hot Shot Lasguns to better represent bolters.

Regiments do not take troopers from other regiments. There are many reasons why this is the case but the big one being that regiments are more or less self contained. Guardsmen from other regiments may be allies but they are not from the same overall unit. To transfer Guardsmen from one regiment to another would be a huge paperwork mess and the time it takes to do that paperwork is worth far more than the actual guardsman involved.

The situation of the Elysians and Catachans becoming one regiment is another matter entirely. What the Guard does on extended campaigns is to mash two undermanned regiments together to form one. For example, if the Cadian 123 Light Infantry and the Cadian 124 Light infantry were reduced to 50% strength each they'd combined to form a full strength regiment. What happens next depends. I believe most the time they just combine the names of the regiments in this case they'd be known as the "Cadian 123/124 Light Infantry". For all intents and purposes neither the Cadian 123 or the Cadian 124 exist anymore. Or they would be renamed according to the planet this "new" regiment was "founded" on. So, if they were the 1st regiment to come from a planet called Rannoch they'd be called the Rannoch 1st.

I would also think that the commanders would be pretty pissed that his best men are being stolen by some yahoos he doesn't even know.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Regiments do not take troopers from other regiments. There are many reasons why this is the case but the big one being that regiments are more or less self contained. Guardsmen from other regiments may be allies but they are not from the same overall unit. To transfer Guardsmen from one regiment to another would be a huge paperwork mess and the time it takes to do that paperwork is worth far more than the actual guardsman involved.

The situation of the Elysians and Catachans becoming one regiment is another matter entirely. What the Guard does on extended campaigns is to mash two undermanned regiments together to form one. For example, if the Cadian 123 Light Infantry and the Cadian 124 Light infantry were reduced to 50% strength each they'd combined to form a full strength regiment. What happens next depends. I believe most the time they just combine the names of the regiments in this case they'd be known as the "Cadian 123/124 Light Infantry". For all intents and purposes neither the Cadian 123 or the Cadian 124 exist anymore. Or they would be renamed according to the planet this "new" regiment was "founded" on. So, if they were the 1st regiment to come from a planet called Rannoch they'd be called the Rannoch 1st.

I would also think that the commanders would be pretty pissed that his best men are being stolen by some yahoos he doesn't even know.

I can understand what you mean, I just have seen it played oppositely in both the Codex and other Black Library Novels which is where I came up with it. However if that is really the only issue, then I can just say they are a Super Elite Regiment that draws recruits purely from their homeworld and they specialize in Airborne and Air Assault Operations. Furthermore their planet is a wealthy Forgeworld who specialize in the production and weapons for both Space Marine and Imperial Guard Forces, which led to this Regiment having specialized equipment, for example upgraded armor and access to Drop Pods refitted to hold regular humans.

Do you mean the Tanith 1st and Only? Yeah, they are a.. special case. I wouldn't model your regiment after them.

As a suggestion, why not have the new recruits come from within the regiment? Often Imperial Guardsmen produce offspring on campaign whether it be with another guardsman or a pleasant looking local.

Um I still don't understand what kind of argument you are trying to make as I have never claimed to be doing anything of the sort with any of these conversions, and these are clearly exaggerations of what I want to do. If your going to post things like that please keep it relative to my conversion instead of posting a bunch of stuff that isn't relevant. All I said I was trying to do was to convert the Hot Shot Las to look like an "Autogun" which are common in the 40k universe to better make it fit the profile of a bolter. I am NOT mixing rules as you so claim (I don't even understand where you got that from), I am running solely Space Marines rules with this army, all I am doing is using the Scions instead of Space Marines and making some conversions to their Hot Shot Lasguns to better represent bolters.

None of this is implied in your OP. What is implied is that you're running an MT army out of C:SM but using MT wargear (hot-shots) made to look like IG wargear (autoguns)... with nary a mention that it's statted as a bolter.

If all you're doing is what is basically a "counts as" army, and using Chapter Tactics in place of IG Orders and Doctrines and such, then knock yourself out. But if you're trying to use the C:MT rules mashed together with C:SM rules, that's a whole different ball of wax.

 Psienesis wrote:

Um I still don't understand what kind of argument you are trying to make as I have never claimed to be doing anything of the sort with any of these conversions, and these are clearly exaggerations of what I want to do. If your going to post things like that please keep it relative to my conversion instead of posting a bunch of stuff that isn't relevant. All I said I was trying to do was to convert the Hot Shot Las to look like an "Autogun" which are common in the 40k universe to better make it fit the profile of a bolter. I am NOT mixing rules as you so claim (I don't even understand where you got that from), I am running solely Space Marines rules with this army, all I am doing is using the Scions instead of Space Marines and making some conversions to their Hot Shot Lasguns to better represent bolters.

None of this is implied in your OP. What is implied is that you're running an MT army out of C:SM but using MT wargear (hot-shots) made to look like IG wargear (autoguns)... with nary a mention that it's statted as a bolter.

If all you're doing is what is basically a "counts as" army, and using Chapter Tactics in place of IG Orders and Doctrines and such, then knock yourself out. But if you're trying to use the C:MT rules mashed together with C:SM rules, that's a whole different ball of wax.

Again never said I was mixing and matching rules.

You could give your men bolters and run them as boltgun scouts if you really want to use C:SM. There are lower quality Bolters available but I don't think that really fits your idea for an elite regiment.

To be fair to Psienesis, the OP was... kinda super-confused and rambling.

Long story short: You don't need to use Marines rules. Scions can deep strike natively, just say they're using a drop pod.

Fluff wise, it's iffy, because yeah, you're trying to Deathwatch the Guard. This kind of thing does happen, but only when an Inquisitor commands it and doesn't care about pissing off the Munitorium and the Militarum.

To be honest, though? Borrowing the ODST fluffis just plain unneccessary. 40k already has a super elite unit of super well equipped drop troopers that are fully integrated with the fluff. They're called the Stormtroopers, or Tempestus Scions if you want to be formal. If you really want to mix and match regimental origins, rather than just native world origins (since the Stormtroopers are recruited from the Schola, they can have any ethnicity in the Imperium as a member anyway), then you can say that they occasionally uplift exceptional veterans as honourary Scions, counting the deaths of the rest of their unit as the requisite orphaning.

ODSTs

WS 3 / BS 4 / S 3 / T 3 / W 1 / I 4 / A 1 / Ld 8 / Sv 5+

Composition
4 ODSTs
1 ODST Sergeant

Unit Type
Infantry

Wargear
Helllumper BDU
MA5C Assault Rifle
M6C/SOCOM
Combat Knife
Frag Grenades (Offensive)

Special Rules
Orbital Insertion Pods - ODSTS have the deepstrike special rule
“We go feet first, sir!” - ODSTs must deploy via deepstrike

Options
May Include up to 7 additional ODSTs for 13 points per Model

Any mode may replace their MA5C Rifle with one of the following:
M90 CAWS (Shotgun)...............................6 points per Model
BR55 Battle Rifle.......................................6 points per Model

For every 5 models in a squad, one model may replace their MA5C Rifle with one of the following:
SRS99D-S2 AM (Sniper Rifle)....................10 points per Model
M41 SSR MAV/AW (Missile Launcher).....15 points per Model

Any model may upgrade their BDU from any of the following:
CQB BDU.................................................3 points per Model
Sharpshooter BDU..................................3 points per Model
All models may take the following:
Recon BDU..............................................3 points per Model

UNSC ARMORY
Helljumper BDU - The ODST BDU has been in use for well over 50 years by the 105th, and remains unmatched in its ability to protect its wearer over other BDUs during the toughest operations. The BDU excels at providing more protection against small arms fire than other infantry body armor, and also excels at allowing a trooper to conduct Military Operations in Urban Terrain without the slightest chance of being detected in dark locations.
Recon Variant: The model gains the stealth special rule
CQB Variant: The model has a 4+ armor save
Sharpshooter Variant: The model gains + 1 to his ballistic skill

MA5C Assault Rifle - The MA5C has an attached electronics suite that provides information on rounds remaining in the magazine, compass heading, and capable of wireless up-link with MJOLNIR systems for improved accuracy. Made of Titanium Alloy and Polymers, the rifle performs well in a variety of environments. Having a rate of fire of 650 rounds a minute, and chambering the old-school M118 7.62x51mm NATO Armor Piercing, Full Metal Jacket Rounds, the MA5C is fully capable of a withering barrage whilst even in motion or on a charge. Though lacking strength and stopping power, these rounds are designed to pierce most conventional ballistic body armor.
It has the following stats: Range 18" / Strength 3 / AP - / Type Assault 2

M6C/SOCOM- The M6C/SOCOM variant is a special issued handgun to the UNSC's special operations units. The M6C/SOCOM variant has an integrated sound suppressor, and muzzle brake. It is the secondary weapon of special forces Orbital Drop Shock Troopers and is used in operations that rely on stealth rather than direct engagements.
It has the following stats: Range 8" / Strength 4 / AP 5 / Type assault 1

BR55 Battle Rifle
The BR55 Battle Rifle is a United Nations Space Command infantry service rifle. It is the older of the BR55 series rifles. It is most notable for its powerful three-round burst fire and accurate 2x scope, making it more efficient at farther ranges than the MA5 Assault Rifle.
It has the following stats: Range 24" / Strength 3 / AP 5 / Type Assault 1

M90 Shotgun - is a pump-action, magazine-fed, dual tubular non-detachable type weapon. It uses the Soellkraft 8-Gauge Magnum Shotgun Shell, a large round capable of phenomenal stopping power.
It has the following stats: Range 12" / Strength 4 / AP - / Type Assault 2 Rending

Sniper Rifle S99D-S2 AM - aka the "SR System 99D-S2 Anti-Matériel", it is a semi-automatic UNSC sniper rifle that fires 14.5 x 114mm APFSDS (Armor-Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot, with a tungsten or depleted uranium core) from a 4-round magazine. As a sniper rifle, it is fitted with a variable-magnification optic that shows real time images in infrared vision when not looking through it. When looking through it, the scope shows a target's distance and elevation. The rifle is so powerful it even can be used effectively to fire at light armored vehicles.
It has the following stats: Range 36" / Strength X/ AP 6 (When firing at vehicles, the rifle adds D3 to its Armor penetration value) / Type Heavy 1, Sniper

M41 Rocket Launcher - aka the "M41 SSR" fires 102mm HEAP (High Explosive Armor Piercing) shaped charge rockets. The launcher sports a 2x scope and can fire rockets over long distances with devastating accuracy, and its two launch tubes allow the wielder to fire two rockets before needing to reload. The rocket launcher spreads a huge amount of damage over a large area. It is capable of taking out entire groups of infantry at any range and is effective against most vehicles.
It has the following stats: Range 48" / Strength 7 / AP 3 / Type Heavy 1 Blast

40mm chain gun
Strength: 5 AP: 4 Range: 36" Class: Heavy 3

70mm chain gun
Strength: 6 AP: 3 Range: 36" Class: Heavy 3, Rending

HE Anvii II Missile Pod
Strength: 7 AP: 3 Range: 48" Class: Heavy 1, Blast

Dedicated Transports

D77-TC Pelican Dropship - 150pts
Name BS FA SA RA HP
Pelican 3 11 11 10 3

Unit Composition: 1 Pelican
Unit Type: Flyer (Hover)
Wargear: 40mm chain gun
Transport Capacity: 12 models and/or 1 Vehicle
Access Points: 1 rear transport ramp
Options:
May replace the 40mm chain gun with a 70mm chain gun...5 points
May take two side-mounted HE Anvii II Missile Pods............20 points
May take a Searchlight...........................................................1 points
May take Resupply capsules...................................................40 points
Special Rules: Deep Strike
Resupply capsules
The Resupply Canister (also known as the Drop Pod), was used as a United Nations Space Command rearmament capsule. A pelican with resupply capsules cannot transport a vehicle.
Resupply capsules are single use and can be deployed in base contact with a pelican while it is hovering. Any UNSC infantry unit can exchange up to six of their primary weapons from a resupply capsule.

May exchange their weapon from any of the following:

BR55 Battle Rifle
M90 CAWS (Shotgun)
MA5C Assault Rifle

May exchange up to two of their weapons from any of the following:
SRS99D-S2 AM (Sniper Rifle)
M41 SSR MAV/AW (Missile Launcher)

 Furyou Miko wrote:
To be fair to Psienesis, the OP was... kinda super-confused and rambling.

Long story short: You don't need to use Marines rules. Scions can deep strike natively, just say they're using a drop pod.

Sorry you were confused, however it seems to me that I said what I intended perfectly clearly, what I didn't understand were half the arguments being made. And yes I am well aware that the Scions can Deep Strike, however unlike Drop Pods they would not nearly be as effective as I would have to wait until turn 2 meaning I would have to differ from the intended and planned fluff, this is purely from a rules setting. I am not a WAAC player, however I do not want to build an army that does not have at least some capability of winning.

Hey there,
Glad to see another ODST force in the works, if it helps, I got where you were going in your original post. I like a lot of what you're saying and can see your reasoning. To some of the other guys in the thread, while yes there are already 40k regiments that are quite similar, OP isn't trying for that vibe.

ODSTs are a volunteer outfit that must have already seen active combat as a member of another military unit. The scions are trained from a very young age and then placed into battle, ODSTs are more (to my eyes) veteran veterans who are willing to go on near suicidal missions. More to the point though, I can appreciate people offering suggestions for gmaleron but in some parts it almost seemed like he was being berated for his choices of fluff.

I like the inspiration OP, I look forwards to watching your blog and am sure we'll be trading UNSC inspired ideas soon - I've got a big unveiling planned for next week or the week after.

There is no way in hell ODST's would be BS3 if Veterans are BS4. Conscripts are BS3. Those guys who are outright stated to have mere weeks of training before being sent out to the frontlines on occasion.

Come on, son.

 AkhilleusK42 wrote:
Hey there,
Glad to see another ODST force in the works, if it helps, I got where you were going in your original post. I like a lot of what you're saying and can see your reasoning. To some of the other guys in the thread, while yes there are already 40k regiments that are quite similar, OP isn't trying for that vibe.

ODSTs are a volunteer outfit that must have already seen active combat as a member of another military unit. The scions are trained from a very young age and then placed into battle, ODSTs are more (to my eyes) veteran veterans who are willing to go on near suicidal missions. More to the point though, I can appreciate people offering suggestions for gmaleron but in some parts it almost seemed like he was being berated for his choices of fluff.

I like the inspiration OP, I look forwards to watching your blog and am sure we'll be trading UNSC inspired ideas soon - I've got a big unveiling planned for next week or the week after.

The Guard just doesnt work like the UNSC marines, though. Regiments arent nearly as close together as UNSC units so using other, active regiments is problematic at best. The OP is free to write whatever he wants, though. Cant be worse than what Black Library puts out.

More to the point, though, I would call having ODSTs being favourably compared to the Scions... generous at best. Scions are trained from a young age to stalwartly face against alien and inter-dimensional horrors that would make what the ODSTs face seem like a walk in the park. The ODSTs are veteran Guardsmen at best with a lower leadership skill. Maybe with a worse save and most likely with a worse gun. That's not to say that ODSTs are incompetent. They are excellent soldiers for what the UNSC needs of them. It's just that transplanting them into the 40k universe makes them cry like little bitches because they aren't trained or equipped for what they will face. This is true for many sci-fi armies from the Systems Alliance marines to the Stormtrooper corps.

Now, I can understand all deep striking army of veteran guardsmen using ODST themes. That's fine. But a direct transplant is problematic.

The Guard just doesnt work like the UNSC marines, though. Regiments arent nearly as close together as UNSC units so using other, active regiments is problematic at best. The OP is free to write whatever he wants, though. Cant be worse than what Black Library puts out.

More to the point, though, I would call having ODSTs being favourably compared to the Scions... generous at best. Scions are trained from a young age to stalwartly face against alien and inter-dimensional horrors that would make what the ODSTs face seem like a walk in the park. The ODSTs are veteran Guardsmen at best with a lower leadership skill. Maybe with a worse save and most likely with a worse gun. That's not to say that ODSTs are incompetent. They are excellent soldiers for what the UNSC needs of them. It's just that transplanting them into the 40k universe makes them cry like little bitches because they aren't trained or equipped for what they will face. This is true for many sci-fi armies from the Systems Alliance marines to the Stormtrooper corps.

Now, I can understand all deep striking army of veteran guardsmen using ODST themes. That's fine. But a direct transplant is problematic.

Oh, I agree about transplanting ideas UNSC forces directly and of course that wouldn't fly, haha. The human tech from 2,500 is not going to compare to human tech from period of time 37,500 years in the future, yet alone v.s. ancient superpowers like Eldar or Necrons. OP seems to be using a marine dex (for access to drop pods) but with ODST inspiration for models and paintjobs; I myself will be using Scions allied with IG/AM because I feel like they justly compliment each fluffily (plus I believe scion deepstrike better represents single occupant nature of HEVs). You're right that the UNSC would be closer than their IG counterparts, especially when you only own a few worlds compared to the millions in 40k.

Guardsmen competency and equipment is being overestimated ITT.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Guardsmen competency and equipment is being overestimated ITT.

Or underestimated depending on the planet they come from.

Catachan, maybe. I wouldn't rate standard Cadians above standard UNSC marines in capabilities, nor Veterans above ODST's.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Catachan, maybe. I wouldn't rate standard Cadians above standard UNSC marines in capabilities, nor Veterans above ODST's.

I would for several reasons. Cadians are trained from birth to fight a hard war with enemies that UNSC citizens have nightmares about. Everything they do is for the Imperial Guard. Recruitment rate and birthrate is equal on Cadia. Cadians have far superior rifles and at least on par weaponry to your average UNSC grunt. A marine will run from a Daemon because he wasn't prepared for it. But a Cadian will stand and fight because that fight was what his entire existence led up to.

ODSTs are on par with Veterans, yes, but their equipment is inferior and they and they lack the experience of brutal, horrible war that Vets do. Covenant bastards slicing up your squad is bad? Try alien horrors slicing up thousands of men all in a manner of moments and having to fight knee deep in their guts.

But if you gave a UNSC marine the proper equipment and had a Commissar watch him he would be as capable as your average guard grunt.

I think what he means is such as the Kasrkin are for Cadians' his regiment is the Kasrkin (of such) but for all regiments.

Alright guys I have given this project the Green Light with the blessing of m FLGS owner who also runs the tournaments, basically what I am going to do:

-To keep things simple everything armed with a "Hot Shot Lasgun" will be run as a standard Space Marine with a Bolter to avoid confusion.

-"Hot Shot Volley Gun" will represent a Heavy Bolter. This was decided due to the volume of shots the Hot Shot Volley Gun can put out.

-All other special weapons will be represented accordingly.

-Only allowed to take guys with 3+ armor saves, this does not include Characters.

-Space Marine vehicles will be used to represent Space Marine Vehicles.


So as you can see the only real difference will be Hot Shot Las and Volley guns representing Bolter and Heavy Bolters respectfully, however most people at my FLGS know I am running this army purely for fluff reasons and think it will look pretty cool when finished. Also allows me to double dip with Codex's and save money in the long run

That's good to hear, I'm looking forward to seeing it! I'm waiting on 1 final part to start my force in earnest and then... *trails off ominously*

But truly, can't wait to see. We need some WIPs, dammit man!

 AkhilleusK42 wrote:
That's good to hear, I'm looking forward to seeing it! I'm waiting on 1 final part to start my force in earnest and then... *trails off ominously*

But truly, can't wait to see. We need some WIPs, dammit man!

Will do, my plan is to paint them to resemble the famous 31st Harakoni Warhawks or "Helldivers" so when I run them out of Codex Space Marines it will fit the fluff of their Orbital Assault and Airborne tactics. When I run them out of Codex Astra Militarium they will be the 31st Irrland Infantry or "Jagers" with the same paint scheme.

Just use space marine torsos, legs, arms and weapons.
Decorate with scion helmets, backpacks and whatever else.
Voila, one custom SM chapter that'll be far less confusing than what you're currently proposing.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
Just use space marine torsos, legs, arms and weapons.
Decorate with scion helmets, backpacks and whatever else.
Voila, one custom SM chapter that'll be far less confusing than what you're currently proposing.

This is not confusing at all, I am simply using the Scion models and running them as Space Marines, I fail to see how anyone could get confused by that. The only thing that is "different" is the Hot Shot Volley Guns and Hot Shot Lasguns representing Heavy Bolters and Bolters respectively. Other then that everything will be WYSIWYG in regards to Special Weapons, Vehicles ect.

What's the confusion about? He wants his own homebrew regiment, using Scions for counts-as Space Marines, representing a well equipped Guard regiment. Do plenty of conversion work and a solid and consistent theme running through the entire army and it will look very cool! The universe is big enough that somewhere, at some time, a very rich planet could tithe such well equipped troops to the Imperium.

Incidentally, I really wish Guard Veteran squads could be upgraded to use a 24" range, S3, AP-, Assault 2, Combi-weapon grenade launcher. That would fit the feel of better equipped Spec-ops troops.