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Hi guys, need some advice for a not-so-standard empire list.
A few rules - no named characters, no war alter/light/stom wagon. They are cool - just doesn't go for the theme I want.

LIST ONE

LORDS
Grand Master
shield, ogre blade, ++4 talisman, otts

Wizard Lord (light/shadow/heavens)
lvl 4, dispel scroll, opal amulet


HEROES

Captain
BSB, full plate, SoM, Dawnstone, E.shield

Warrior-Priest
gw, AoMI

CORE

38 halberdiers <captain/warrior priest here>
FC

archers x 11 <wizard bunker>
champ, muso

knights x 9 <general here>
inner circle, FC, standard of swiftness


SPECIAL

???

Great Cannon

Great Cannon


RARE

Steam Tank


Ok I've got 625 points left over. I was thinking some demi-gryphs and some chaff - either pistollers or huntsmen.




LIST TWO

LORDS
Grand Master
shield, ogre blade, ++4 talisman, otts

Wizard Lord (light/shadow/heavens)
lvl 4, dispel scroll, opal amulet


HEROES

Captain
BSB, full plate, SoM, Dawnstone, E.shield

Warrior-Priest
gw, AoMI

CORE

38 halberdiers <captain/warrior priest here>
FC
*Detachment*
15 x free company

archers x 11 <wizard bunker>
muso

10 x crossbowmen

10 x crossbowmen

SPECIAL

Pistollers x 5
muso

Pistollers x 5
muso

Huntsmen x 11

Reiksguard Knights x 9
FC, banner of swiftness

Great Cannon

Great Cannon


RARE

Steam Tank


Second list - alot more chaff but no demis... refused flank with pistollers running either side of reiksguard. Huntsmen to harrass war machines/counter chaff going after steam tank.

Feedback is most appreciated!

First list looks better IMO, proving you ment to put your general on a horse for when he joins the knights aha

Demigryph knights are awesome IMO

To be honest, neither of these lists impress me.

They both need light, but don't have enough to make the most out of light.

For the price of your grandmaster you can get a lector on Walter. That will add a lot more to your army. A second Banishment, and the prayer buffs. And the 18" IP.

Then take the level 4 light and 2 level 1 lights. This effectively guarantees that your level 4 gets the spells he needs. I.E. Banishment and the main buffs.

Then the 5 Angry Birds. And the core. And the cannons.

That is Empire at their best.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
To be honest, neither of these lists impress me.

They both need light, but don't have enough to make the most out of light.

For the price of your grandmaster you can get a lector on Walter. That will add a lot more to your army. A second Banishment, and the prayer buffs. And the 18" IP.

Then take the level 4 light and 2 level 1 lights. This effectively guarantees that your level 4 gets the spells he needs. I.E. Banishment and the main buffs.

Then the 5 Angry Birds. And the core. And the cannons.

That is Empire at their best.

Thanks for the feedback.

To reiterate, whilst I know the meta pushes for taking war/storm/light wagons, I didn't want to take one myself for aesthetic reasons. I may propose an alternative infantry heavy list which would use one (running greatswords, walter and storm wagon) in the future.

In regards to casters, as you will see below I will take 2 warrior priests and the lvl4. As I understand the priets to be roughly equal to a level 1 wizard, this gives me the recommended 6 levels of magic, although I would be running the lvl 4 solo - which lore would be best suited?


With this in mind, I've done some more tweaking and I've come up with a revised list.

LORDS

Arch Lector
heavy armour, shield, barded warhorse
talisman of preservation, Van Horstmann's Speculum, Dragonhelm, Warrior's Bane

Wizard Lord (light/shadow/heavens)
lvl 4, dispel scroll, opal amulet


HEROES

Captain
BSB, full plate, SoM, Dawnstone, E.shield

Warrior-Priest
heavy armour, shield
ironcurse icon


CORE

38 halberdiers <captain/warrior priest here>
FC

archers x 11 <wizard bunker>
champ, muso

knights x 9 <general here>
inner circle, FC, standard of swiftness


SPECIAL

Demigryphs x 3
musician

Demigryphs x 3
musician

Pistollers x 5
musician

Pistollers x 5
musician

Huntsmen x 15
musician

Great Cannon

Great Cannon


RARE

Steam Tank



This setup is based on the previous first list.
Basically, the pistollers + demi's work in teams on the flanks to bait and switch. Cav pushes one flank whilst halberds + steam tank hold the other. Huntsmen act to slow fast cav/war machine hunt. Artillery takes out any threats to demis/knights.

Thoughts?

Not a huge fan of it, could you give a list of the models you own? Because with this list, you have MSU but no punch other then demis and stank.

 Arbiter wrote:
Not a huge fan of it, could you give a list of the models you own? Because with this list, you have MSU but no punch other then demis and stank.

That was my fear that it lacked staying power that something like greatswords might offer.


Truth to tell, I actually don't have any models for empire yet so I'm a clean slate and happy to take on any suggestions.


If empire just is not viable to field at all without any war/light/storm wagons then I need to know so I can scuttle this completely.

Knights are staying power. They have pretty crazy armor saves for not a ton of points. They're also fast enough they can better choose their engagements.

You don't have to use the wagons at all. +1PD or +1DD is nice. And I like the LAYZ0R, but otherwise they aren't godlike.

Empire has demigrpyphs, great cannons, hellblasters, stanks. Those are all top tier units. Knights and warrior priests are also nice.

The fact they make point values of games specifically to prevent multiple stanks should tell you about them.

Well since you haven't bought any models yet, what kind of army did you want to play? From that we can make you a competitive list using models you like.

You don't have to run war wagons or hurricanium but with infantry lists they make your average troops something formidable. Without them an infantry army won't nearly be as effective.

namiel wrote:You don't have to run war wagons or hurricanium but with infantry lists they make your average troops something formidable. Without them an infantry army won't nearly be as effective.

I agree with you that as I don't want a wagon, going infantry-heavy is probably not the best.

Arbiter wrote:Well since you haven't bought any models yet, what kind of army did you want to play? From that we can make you a competitive list using models you like.

refering to my above comments, I don't want to use an army based around using the wagons at all. I don't know about what 'builds' are out there, but I suppose a cav list with some missile support could be a nice start - whittle down enemy forces through massed fire-power, then hit them hard with knights/demis?

I am very open to suggestion, and extremely grateful for any support.

I am using a 2400 point list atm and its done well 2/3 for me (the only loss from a WOC who knew my list and took 2 casters with lore of metal).

If you are interested pm me and I will give it to you.

Ok - if I want a general on horseback, should I be using Inner circle or Reiksguard?

This will help me decide on core.

Depends on how many there are, all around reiksguard are fantastic, but if you need normal knights to fill core there are a close second, I only give knights inner circle when i'm running a big brick of them (20+).

I'm now exploring a more mobile army...

Something like 11/12 ICK, razor banner with a grand master and (maybe) a mounted WP, supported with ranged core (crossbows and archers).

Unit of greatswords with captain and WP.

lvl 4 wizard on pegasus, maybe a lvl 1/2 in archer bunker.

3-4 demis

1-2 unit of pistollers to screen the cav/demis

2 cannons and steam tank...

i will write it up more formally when i get a chance. thoughts?

Sure, but remember in a mobile army you HAVE to have units stick together, so like

The named grand master character dude (don't remember off hand) is strong for his point cost, so he would be a good choice.

A lvl3 of death on Pegasus is very dangerous and cost effective.

As you have it demis and knights are perfect.

Pistollers are OK remember 9/10 your hitting on 5+ so don't expect great things.

And don't forget wagons and stanks are fast and effective, the stanks are mobile cannons so you can drop the stationary cannons.

Please do write a list, its always fun to look at all the awesome ideas and combos.