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Made in gb
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

Hi, so after a little soul searching (have also looked at Skorne and Circle) I think I have finally decided on trolls. I have a few quick questions though if you would be kind enough to help.

1. What is their play style like? I picked them mainly on the aesthetics but I have read slow(ish), tough and synergistic, is this accurate? I've heard they do well with infantry, how good are they with beast heavy lists? Beasts are the main draw for me pretty much. Do other armies do beast heavy better? (Having a really tough time picking a faction)

2. The mountain king. My lord that is a fantastic model. However, I have read not so great things about him and I was wondering if you can make a decent competitive list that involves the mountain troll.

3. What is the best way to start? The battle box? I think I MAY be doing a journeyman league so I guess I have to but I'd rather use some of the heavy warbeasts rather than the lighter ones in the battle box. Also I think I'd love to use Grim as his model is fantastic. But yeah in general what is a good way to start trolls?

4. How competitive are trolls? Coming from GW (I know...) where some armies are definitely less competitive than others, how do trolls fare here? I pick factions on aesthetics primarily, but I also don't want to be shooting myself in the foot purely with faction choice...

5. My mate is starting Cygnar. Any tips against these blue shockers?

Thanks guys.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





ImAGeek wrote:
Hi, so after a little soul searching (have also looked at Skorne and Circle) I think I have finally decided on trolls. I have a few quick questions though if you would be kind enough to help.

1. What is their play style like? I picked them mainly on the aesthetics but I have read slow(ish), tough and synergistic, is this accurate? I've heard they do well with infantry, how good are they with beast heavy lists? Beasts are the main draw for me pretty much. Do other armies do beast heavy better? (Having a really tough time picking a faction)


They're the most infantry-centric of the hordes factions but that isn't saying much. They've got beast heavy builds that work for sure. They're not quite the lion-share of builds like in say legion, but if you wanna do beast heavy you'll be fine. You'll still obviously need some dudes, as they constitute the key support models in the faction.

Trolls are a strongly synergestic faction, that generally like to "Brick" - that is clumping models close together to benefit from each other. They are pretty tough and have a lot of defensive synergy. "Slow" can be a thing, or not. Trolls can layer buffs to improve most anything, including speed. The whole army will never scream across the table, but you can shoot off a heavy beast like a bullet with the best of them.


2. The mountain king. My lord that is a fantastic model. However, I have read not so great things about him and I was wondering if you can make a decent competitive list that involves the mountain troll.


The mountain king is a mountain of poo. There have been cases of top-tier trolls players making it work in very specific lists as answers to very specific things in a specific meta. In general though it's one of the worst returns on points in the entire game. It's seriously bad.


3. What is the best way to start? The battle box? I think I MAY be doing a journeyman league so I guess I have to but I'd rather use some of the heavy warbeasts rather than the lighter ones in the battle box. Also I think I'd love to use Grim as his model is fantastic. But yeah in general what is a good way to start trolls?


The Battlebox is a decent start. It has a redundant Impaler you probably won't get use out of long-term but is otherwise fine. You will suffer for a lack of heavy but you'll be able to drop one in soon enough.


4. How competitive are trolls? Coming from GW (I know...) where some armies are definitely less competitive than others, how do trolls fare here? I pick factions on aesthetics primarily, but I also don't want to be shooting myself in the foot purely with faction choice...


There are no factions that are not competitive on a national scale. All factions, when run by top players have seen placings if not wins every year in multiple major tournaments. Trolls are probably one of the factions with a more limited set of tools and higher learning curve though. Some factions have things that return a very high level power up front with simpler tools.

5. My mate is starting Cygnar. Any tips against these blue shockers?


Broadly speaking, it is ARM more than DEF that will protect you, expect guns. Expect his casters and especially feats to feel much more powerful than yours. Cygnar has a lot of their power tied up in their casters, and other singularly powerful models. Trolls is definitely much more about the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/14 14:08:26


 
   
Made in us
Satyxis Raider






Seattle, WA

ImAGeek wrote:


4. How competitive are trolls? Coming from GW (I know...) where some armies are definitely less competitive than others, how do trolls fare here? I pick factions on aesthetics primarily, but I also don't want to be shooting myself in the foot purely with faction choice...



All the factions are competitive, especially at the lower levels of play. Player skills generally means much more than the faction at most levels. Faction balance really only matters at the highest levels or tourney play. And even then it is debatable. That said there are some units/casters/jacks/beasts, etc in each faction that are generally considered stronger or weaker. And pretty much every list out there was a hard counter to it that you will probably run into at some point. In tourneys that is why they often have 2-3 list tourneys. But in friendly play it matters less. You can just mix up your composition from time to time.
   
Made in ca
Bane Lord Tartar Sauce




On the Mountain King, I would like to say that it is less that the Mountain King is less-good, but instead more-niche. Unlike 40k where many units are completely unusable in a competitive environment by other choices (Necron Flayed Ones, the Dark Angels Fliers, etc.) almost every unit can be really good, but you'll find that certain units are good in many more lists than others. For example, Bane Thralls in Cryx, the Stormwall in Cygnar, the Warpwolf Stalker in Circle, and the Ravagor in Legion are all units/models that are very good in a wide number of lists, staples if you were to call them that. There are many other units can be just as good if not better, but fit into fewer lists. For example, Khador's Assault Kommandos, a unit that is often thought to be outright bad, was a key player in a list that won a major tournament a while back (as primarily a synergy and anti-meta choice).

Generally speaking, Gargantuans, Colossals and Battle engines are not high-priority purchases, you are better off starting small and building to something like a Mountain King than jumping straight into the game with one. It is usable and can be quite effective in the right list, but don't expect to be able to plonk it down on the table with any list and have it mulch through half an army.

Additionally, don't get too attached to ideas of playstyles before you start playing. You may go into the game thinking "oh, I want to run heavy-spam" and after 10 or so games realize that you much prefer playing infantry. Its part of why starting small is good, it really lets you get a feel for things, and helps you figure out where you want to go from there.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





RegalPhantom wrote:
On the Mountain King, I would like to say that it is less that the Mountain King is less-good, but instead more-niche. Unlike 40k where many units are completely unusable in a competitive environment by other choices (Necron Flayed Ones, the Dark Angels Fliers, etc.) almost every unit can be really good, but you'll find that certain units are good in many more lists than others.


This is generally true, but the Mountain King is actually crap. It really has no niche that isn't better filled by other pieces for the same points. So are things like Kossite Woodsmen and Protectorate Deliverers. These things are relatively few/far between, but they do exist. I mean you can still get far more relative work out of the Mountain King than you can out of the crap pieces of 40k, but that doesn't change the fact there is vanishingly few situations where there aren't multiple better uses of 20pts.

You can still win games using it, but it'll never make doing so easier.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/04/14 21:21:22


 
   
Made in gb
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

RegalPhantom wrote:

Additionally, don't get too attached to ideas of playstyles before you start playing. You may go into the game thinking "oh, I want to run heavy-spam" and after 10 or so games realize that you much prefer playing infantry. Its part of why starting small is good, it really lets you get a feel for things, and helps you figure out where you want to go from there.


It's not the playstyle of the heavies that draws me to them, it's the models.

Thanks for all the replies guys, helpful stuff. Shame about the mountain king cos that model is awesome :/

Really stuck between Skorne and trolls at the moment.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





ImAGeek wrote:
RegalPhantom wrote:

Additionally, don't get too attached to ideas of playstyles before you start playing. You may go into the game thinking "oh, I want to run heavy-spam" and after 10 or so games realize that you much prefer playing infantry. Its part of why starting small is good, it really lets you get a feel for things, and helps you figure out where you want to go from there.


It's not the playstyle of the heavies that draws me to them, it's the models.

Thanks for all the replies guys, helpful stuff. Shame about the mountain king cos that model is awesome :/

Really stuck between Skorne and trolls at the moment.


Well if having a really awesome big model is enough to tip it, the Mammoth is good. Like really, really, mad baller good.
   
Made in gb
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

I do really like the mammoth model... I hate the Skorne infantry models though haha.
   
Made in au
Tough Tyrant Guard







I don't know if it'll be relevant to you, but I found my appreciation for the aesthetic changed as I played more. A lot of the things just looked kinda silly to me (jacks especially) but after a while they started growing on me and I quite like them now. I think part of the reason the models can look odd is because we're used to a different aesthetic (especially 40k's) and that shapes our perception.

Maybe you will find you like the looks of some of the different models more as you become more familiar with them. Not to say you should go out and buy an infantry-heavy army straight away, but just be aware you might find they grow on you as you play.
   
Made in gb
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

Yeah that's a good point, I didn't like any of the models when I first discovered warmahordes haha so that's already started. And most of the Skorne is cool actually. I really don't like the Cataphract models and can't see that changing but the main problem with the rest is just the weird heads
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
I don't know if it'll be relevant to you, but I found my appreciation for the aesthetic changed as I played more. A lot of the things just looked kinda silly to me (jacks especially) but after a while they started growing on me and I quite like them now. I think part of the reason the models can look odd is because we're used to a different aesthetic (especially 40k's) and that shapes our perception.

Maybe you will find you like the looks of some of the different models more as you become more familiar with them. Not to say you should go out and buy an infantry-heavy army straight away, but just be aware you might find they grow on you as you play.


I had a similar experience. I couldn't stand most of the models in my chosen faction, particular the exemplars with their crappy backwards duck-bill helmets. Sure enough they grew on me, and now I can't stand it when an exemplar model isn't wearing his helmet.
   
Made in us
Satyxis Raider






Seattle, WA

I was the opposite. I played 40k and was looking to use some of the Ret models to represent my elder as counts as stuff. Then said eff it and just started playing the game.

Though there is still some things that I am kind of iffy on. Like I prefer greenskined trolls instead of blue.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Chongara wrote:
 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
I don't know if it'll be relevant to you, but I found my appreciation for the aesthetic changed as I played more. A lot of the things just looked kinda silly to me (jacks especially) but after a while they started growing on me and I quite like them now. I think part of the reason the models can look odd is because we're used to a different aesthetic (especially 40k's) and that shapes our perception.

Maybe you will find you like the looks of some of the different models more as you become more familiar with them. Not to say you should go out and buy an infantry-heavy army straight away, but just be aware you might find they grow on you as you play.


I had a similar experience. I couldn't stand most of the models in my chosen faction, particular the exemplars with their crappy backwards duck-bill helmets. Sure enough they grew on me, and now I can't stand it when an exemplar model isn't wearing his helmet.


I've always hated it when a model anywhere isn't wearing a helmet if he can have one.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
 
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