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Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





U.K.

Right as the other thred seems to have had no response what so ever I'm posting a new topic here now i have the codex etc etc

my list is:

Firebelly 164
Lvl 2 wizard great weapon

Ogre Bulls 202
6 with ironfists and standard

Ironguts 268
6 with great weapons and standard

Leadbelchers 182
4 with bellower

Leadbelchers 182
4 with bellower

I was looking at sticking the firebelly in with the Bulls, and have the 2 leadbelchers support the 2 combat squads while tromping forwards then after combat squads charge use the belchers to anchor flanks or counter charge depending on the situation.

now i need help as this is the army im using in a FLGS run escalation / tournament thing and my only other army is Skaven and i have only played a handful of games.

Help me fellow Dakkaites as I'm going to need all the help i can get

thanks in advance

DIE already so I can bring you back to life with my necromancer and beat your mates up!  
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





I know Leadbelchers have a lot of mixed reviews. Maybe consider what else you could get for their cost?

I'd say you could really use some Sabretusks. Gnoblars would be nice too, but if points are an issue, the kitties are priority #1.
Take the Ironfists off the Bulls for points? Maybe the lvl2 off the Firebelly?

 
   
Made in us
Dutiful Citizen Levy



Toms River

You can totally take the lvl 2 off the firebelly. He's really just good for throwing fireballs. Get him a potion of initiative, I5 is a great speed to breath weapon. DON'T take off the ironfists, they're neccessary. At this pts level I'd drop one of the leadbelchers and add in an ironblaster or ~3 Mournfang. But if you don't have them the leadbelchers work very well against any T3 armies (skaven hate them).

The only other thing I can suggest is make sure there are musicians in your gut and bull unit. They're only Ld 7&8 and they'll need the +1. Actually if you could afford the Banner of Disipline the firebelly would give out Ld 8 which is better then nothing.

When you go to 1500, grab a BSB as soon as you can.
   
Made in gb
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife





fareham, hants, uk

jaffrime wrote:
You can totally take the lvl 2 off the firebelly.
Get him a potion of initiative, I5 is a great speed to breath weapon.
DON'T take off the ironfists, they're neccessary.
At this pts level I'd drop one of the leadbelchers and add in an ironblaster or ~3 Mournfang. But if you don't have them the leadbelchers work very well against any T3 armies (skaven hate them).

The only other thing I can suggest is make sure there are musicians in your gut and bull unit. They're only Ld 7&8 and they'll need the +1. Actually if you could afford the Banner of Disipline the firebelly would give out Ld 8 which is better then nothing.


All very good advice.

Also i'm going to throw in the fact you have no dispell scroll.

All anyone wants in the world is to be accepted. Except me, i don't give a S%@t.

Armies of Mixer
WHFB-Ogres, WoC, Lizardmen, Tomb Kings, Tzeentch Daemons, OnG

40K- Tau,Guard, Nids, SM, BA, GK, IK, DW

The Hobbit/LOTR- Evil, Angmar, Mordor
 
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





U.K.

Cheers for the help, im new to the game so any help is always appreciated.

i thought a musician just allowed you to "fast reform" not give you +1 Ld. and the banner in a CMD gives re-rolls to Leadership rolls right?

and is a dispel scroll that badly needed? i still get the dispell dice from my opponents roll.

To that end all i would need to do is drop a bull (30+6 pts) get a scroll (25) but what do i do with the left over 12 points? ( My list comes to 999 i think) the 5pt ability that lets me see assassins etc in units? lookout gnobblers?

and I keep hearing mixed reviews about the leadbelchers myself but i dont get why. the only short fall i can see is Slow to Fire, and the D6 shots. if rolling goes bad yes im only chucking out 4 shots but statistically im rolling 3/4 per dice and im hitting on 4+ unless im at long range... ( that means my maximum range of the weapon right?)

i was thinking of using them like empire detachments. 4x1 belchers either as a screen to the CC units or on the flanks to soften up units before they charge?

again sorry, but this is my first proper WHFB army i normally play 40K

thanks!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or at this points level is it worth ditching the firebelly for a bruiser with kit? i have the model arriving tomorrow ( thursday) so would that work better as a general for 1K pts?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/16 15:55:21


DIE already so I can bring you back to life with my necromancer and beat your mates up!  
   
Made in us
Dutiful Citizen Levy



Toms River

Keep the firebelly. He's a solid low lvl general. It's the breath weapon that rocks.

Musicians allow a quick reform, and break ties on who won combat and allow a +1 to Ld when rallying from fleeing.

In my opinion every large block of troops should have a musician and standard. Ymmv

Long range for all weapons in WFB start at half range. So a 24" weapon has long range after 12". Most of the time you'll be hitting on 5's but it'll only get better. Against T3 units hitting on 5's wounding on 3's with a -2 to armor save is devastating. Skaven, elfs, empire all hate this. Other ogres, lizards, and chaos less so.

   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





U.K.


Would this list work better?

Fire Belly
Lvl 2 wizard, Armour of fortune, Dispel scroll great weapon 224

Ogre Bulls
6 with ironfists and standard+ bellower 212

Iron guts
6 great weapons and standard+bellower lookout gnobler 283

Leadbelchers 139
3 + bellower

Leadbelchers 139
3+ bellower

DIE already so I can bring you back to life with my necromancer and beat your mates up!  
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Illinois

Your firebelly can't take an ironfist thus he can't have magic armor. Honestly at these points I wouldn't necessarily take ironguts over bulls.

If you get your firebelly to under 200 points you could run 2 units of 6 bulls, a 3 man unit of mournfang, and an ironblaster.

Firebelly 200
Bulls 210
Bulls 210
Mournfang 210
Ironblaster 170

Just rounding a bit. If you really want to run leadbelchers run a 4 man unit and an 8 man unit of bulls.

RoperPG wrote:
Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
 
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





U.K.

where does it say he cant. i cant find it in the rulebook anywhere...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
found it never mind :-/



Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, Try again.....

stupid armour not being allowed on wizards *grumbles grumble*

Firebelly
Lvl 2 Dispel scroll 180

Ogre Bulls

6x Ironfists Full Command + look out gnobler 227

6x Ironfists Full Command + look out gnobler 227

Leadbelchers
4 with bellower 182

Leadblechers
4 with bellower 182

Not using mournfang as i Cant afford them until next month ( bills are a pain ) and i dont understand the hype about using 2/3 cavalry models when sure a bolt thrower or cannon is going to turn em to paste....

so would this work more or less how it should. i know the iron blaster is supposed to be awesome etc etc but cant really sniff at 4xD6 shots per turn from 2 seperate squads that are walking next to the CC units.

Other question is should i swap the firebelly for a bruiser it being cheaper and has armour etc?

and what are peoples thoughts on Gorgers or Yhetees or even Maneaters??

Remember your all beautiful... in your own frightning ways =)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/16 23:42:31


DIE already so I can bring you back to life with my necromancer and beat your mates up!  
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Illinois

Gorgers and yhetees are situational. First I would recommend dropping the unit champ from one unit and the look out gnoblar as well. Its not going to change much and frees up 15 points. Giving the firebelly a magic weapon specifically one increasing initiative would be helpful.

Maneaters are GREAT.....but at this point level will be very costly. They are 150 points base for the unit. That doesn't include adding at least another ogre which you will need to or adding weapon options. The unit is going to come in over 225 at least for a non troops choice.

RoperPG wrote:
Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





 Lokki wrote:
stupid armour not being allowed on wizards *grumbles grumble*
...could always just give him a Talisman for the Ward save.
 Lokki wrote:
i dont understand the hype about using 2/3 cavalry models when sure a bolt thrower or cannon is going to turn em to paste....
Bolt Throwers and Cannons aren't all that effective at taking down Monstrous units. Against 2-3 Mournfang, they're rarely going to be able to hit more than one model. If your Mournfang don't see combat by turn 3, there's something seriously wrong.
And if your opponent spends those turns focusing all his artillery on them, okay. Now you've got blocks of Ogres that're largely unscathed.
 Lokki wrote:
i know the iron blaster is supposed to be awesome etc etc but cant really sniff at 4xD6 shots per turn from 2 seperate squads that are walking next to the CC units.
I think the problem with Leadbelchers is that they've got S4 shots. Just like your Ogres. The Ironblaster brings something new to the table. And it's more maneuverable.

 
   
Made in us
Dutiful Citizen Levy



Toms River

An ironblaster should be in your future someday. But I love my 6 man unit of leadbelchers. They do lovely terrible things. The ironblaster can be quite deadly or it can horribly misfire.
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





U.K.

When i start going 1500+ imlooking at ironguts + ironbelcher thenmaybe at 2000 2 bulls2 irontguts maybe 2x6 lead belchers and maneaters but not sure yet. maybe get 2 stone horns and some mournfangs instead for a mounted offensive ?

DIE already so I can bring you back to life with my necromancer and beat your mates up!  
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Illinois

 Lokki wrote:
When i start going 1500+ imlooking at ironguts + ironbelcher thenmaybe at 2000 2 bulls2 irontguts maybe 2x6 lead belchers and maneaters but not sure yet. maybe get 2 stone horns and some mournfangs instead for a mounted offensive ?


Stonehorns are great and I love the model(I have 2 myself as well as 2 thundertusks) just not very competitive. It depends on what kind of build you are looking for. If you are wanting to play competitively or just fun pick up games things change. If you want fun pick up games then you should get whatever it is that tickles your fancy. Fun cool awesome looking models will make fun games better(when fully painted anyway). If this is the case ignore the rest of this post.....

BUT if you are looking for a competitive tournament build then you really need to be running at least one ironblaster if not 2. Also a unit of mournfang are so important. These guys really do work in the army on the turn you charge. I have had them catch a WoC battle line in the flank and run through over 100 warriors by themselves. Ironguts are best served in larger units, 10+. That way you have the wounds to play points denial if you stick a character or 2 in there you can get yourself a 1300-1400 point unit when buffed by gut magic is VERY hard to kill. Ogre bulls for me are a great mainstay unit. They are cheap, T4, come with a lot of wounds, and can pummel the majority of the warhammer world in CC. Gnoblars can be used as a good redirector, surprise unit(trappers), or a tarpit. I have used them very effectively holding up fast cav, killing 10% of a big block of warriors with trappers, or turning them into a bus of never ending steadfast with hopefully a general and bsb in range. The last "must have" would be sabretusks. They are 21 points for pretty much 4's across the board and 2 wounds that cause fear. If you can get them into your enemies rear they will eat warmachines all day. If not they will hold things up for a turn and hopefully set up your ogres to get the charge off. Lastly, maneaters, these guys are the jack of all trades. Their ability to mix and match weapons with gaining special rules of YOUR choosing can be very deadly. They come with a base strength that is better then most characters in other armies but also come with a hefty price. The drawback with them is to make them survivable you need to invest a good chunk of points(which will take away from mournfang) or be willing to send out an 18 wound block worth 350VP. Granted they are ogres and hard to kill they can still flop big time. With a combination of the right magic and lining up charges, ogres are very tough to beat when built competitively. Ogres are a blast to play as they can come up with some crazy combos that will surprise your enemy and come with some beautiful models. You can always do what I do.....buy everything the army has to offer so you have choices!!!

RoperPG wrote:
Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
 
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





U.K.

Would love to buy everything but it would never get paint.

Would a big unit of ironguts work instead of 12 bulls at 1000th?

DIE already so I can bring you back to life with my necromancer and beat your mates up!  
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Illinois

 Lokki wrote:
Would love to buy everything but it would never get paint.

Would a big unit of ironguts work instead of 12 bulls at 1000th?


In my experience with ogres at low points games more ogres will win you games. MORE OGRES. I have been a very active warbands player and under that ruleset with 500 points I would usually field at least 12 ogres and 2 mournfang which no one can handle. It became just silly and had to start playing the gnoblar horde ruleset from white dwarf from years ago.

going with 4-5 blocks of 6 naked ogres or even a few of 3 will be hard to kill before you catch them.

4 ogres naked come in at 120 x 7 leaves you 160 for a basic character and gives you effectively 8 drops. Just drop your character where ever you need to at the end of deployment and CHARGE. They will have to divide shooting so much that they cant hit everything and units of ogres will hit and kill

RoperPG wrote:
Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
 
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





U.K.

not just 1 unit of 30 with a bruiser and some items?? that would be painful...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it worth swapping out the firebelly for a brusier? or even a tyrant? just thinking about LD and general smacking round the headedness?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/18 19:17:35


DIE already so I can bring you back to life with my necromancer and beat your mates up!  
   
Made in us
Dutiful Citizen Levy



Toms River

You need some magic at 1000 pts and fireball at that level is a good choice.

Just played a 1100 pt vs 1000 skaven (map campaign so I had support).
I brought
Butcher lvl 2 extra hand weapon
Dispel scroll

10 bulls w/ ironfist and CMD
6 leadbchers musician
Ironblaster

He tried to out shoot me with 3 x 8 jezzails, ratling gun and 3 lvl 1 wizards. He simply couldn't kill enough. 30 wounds of ogres is a tough nut to crack and kills almost any core it touches. I've extolled leadbelchers in this thread before. And I took a wound or three against the ironblaster, but shoot shoot charge and the game was over.
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





U.K.

This Campaigen is map lead ( battle tiles?)

starts at 1000pts and for every tile you "conquer" you get + 100pts.

is it worth taking a firebelly and a naked bruiser? ( damn that 250pt limit) stick the bruiser in one squad for the leadership stuff and hitting stuff and fire belly with the second unit for ld and throwing of firey goodness?

or just sod it all and take a slaughtermaster?


DIE already so I can bring you back to life with my necromancer and beat your mates up!  
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





U.K.

So something like this

bruiser
Ironfist heavy armour ogre pistol. 119

Butcher
Level 1 dispell scroll. 125

Ogre bulls
x8 with Ironfist command. 286

Ironguts
x6 command. 288 ( or second 8 ogre bulls unit)

Leadbelchers
x4 bellowed. 182

That's 1000pts on the nose. Would it work?

DIE already so I can bring you back to life with my necromancer and beat your mates up!  
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Illinois

 Lokki wrote:
So something like this

bruiser
Ironfist heavy armour ogre pistol. 119

Butcher
Level 1 dispell scroll. 125

Ogre bulls
x8 with Ironfist command. 286

Ironguts
x6 command. 288 ( or second 8 ogre bulls unit)

Leadbelchers
x4 bellowed. 182

That's 1000pts on the nose. Would it work?


this might be my personal taste but i would go with the bulls over the ironguts and drop the banners and unit champs. THEN change your bruiser to be a hunter, give him beastkiller big name and a great weapon making him str 7. But having a +1 to wound monsters and being str 5 base with all the other stats of a bruiser WITH being able to take a single sabretusk to give him move8 and swiftstride....shenanigans but great shenanigans.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/19 21:06:56


RoperPG wrote:
Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
 
   
Made in us
Dutiful Citizen Levy



Toms River

We aren't using battle tiles we are usng the Generals Compendium (a 6th ed US only supplement I think). You get extra points for having friendly banners adjacent to the fight. As the Ogres didn't exist then I am also using the Dogs of War special ability which gives me an extra 100 pts every battle. Less important now that we are at 2000.

Keep the firebelly only. You need ogres not characters. Put him in the ironguts with banner of disipline. That gives you a Ld 9 unit and mostly army wide Ld 8. That'll have to be enough. Get a bsb as soon as you are at higher point lvls.
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





U.K.

fire belly is only ld 7. does standard of discipline give +2 Ldr?

Why the hunter Namiel? it cant join a unit and if its going to be sneaking around beating stuff up would sure work better with a 90 points gorger?

and why the firebelly over the butcher Jaffrime? its 20 points more for a breath weapon? and 4+ ward against fire attacks?

And i'm thinking of doing the 8 bull unit instead of the ironguts but it depends on if i can get the models in time ( its easter-break here so post / deliveries add an extra 1-3 days on top of normal!!)




DIE already so I can bring you back to life with my necromancer and beat your mates up!  
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Illinois

 Lokki wrote:
fire belly is only ld 7. does standard of discipline give +2 Ldr? No it doesnt, that was an error saying ld9. A slaughtermaster would be base 8 increased to 9

Why the hunter Namiel? it cant join a unit and if its going to be sneaking around beating stuff up would sure work better with a 90 points gorger? A gorger must wait and come on from reserve and it comes from a random board edge. The hunter joining a single sabretusk gets swiftstride and i believe vanguard but id check that. I know it gets swiftstride and the move 8 of the sabretusks. The hunter can take magic items. Give him a great weapon makes him str 7 giving you the ability to kill high toughness targets and beastkiller big name is +1 to wound large targets. So that Ws4 T6 monster is now being hit on 3's and wounded on 2's with 4 base attacks

and why the firebelly over the butcher Jaffrime? its 20 points more for a breath weapon? and 4+ ward against fire attacks? Because fireball is amazing at low points

And i'm thinking of doing the 8 bull unit instead of the ironguts but it depends on if i can get the models in time ( its easter-break here so post / deliveries add an extra 1-3 days on top of normal!!) gakky!!!!




RoperPG wrote:
Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
 
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





U.K.

Yea the post service is a pain in the ass,

I might play around with the butcher/ fire belly thing as the list doesnt have to be set but i dont have the models yet to mess around with many lists ( battalion + heros etc )

my only issue is that the butcher model is god-awful to look at compared to the rest of the model range. any ideas for conversions?


DIE already so I can bring you back to life with my necromancer and beat your mates up!  
   
Made in us
Dutiful Citizen Levy



Toms River

The firebelly is only Ld 7 so as a general in a until with the banner of disipline, he'd give out Ld 8. However, iirc Ironguts are base Ld 8. So, they'd be raised to Ld 9 by the banner. You always take the highest Ld available regardless of who's the general.
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Illinois

jaffrime wrote:
The firebelly is only Ld 7 so as a general in a until with the banner of disipline, he'd give out Ld 8. However, iirc Ironguts are base Ld 8. So, they'd be raised to Ld 9 by the banner. You always take the highest Ld available regardless of who's the general.


but as inspiring presense you would use the firebelly's ld never the unit he is in.

RoperPG wrote:
Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
 
   
Made in us
Dutiful Citizen Levy



Toms River

No a unit always uses it's best leadership option. If an ironguts unit has a base Ld of 8 and the Std of Disipline raises it to 9. They don't have to use the generals worse leadership. Same thing if you had a butcher general and a bruiser bsb in te same unit. You'd use the bruisers higher Ld because t is higher.
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





U.K.

so the second list is more to peoples taste then the first one?

and the Bruiser i would probabley upgrade to bsb when i get the first extra 100pts i should get after the first game. because I get 25 extr points per slot

other then that when i start getting more points should i just get more bulls onto the bored? or start expaning with more belchers and ironbelcher and more adventuours stuff..

i made up a 2000 list for fun with 2 characters and 48 bulls is this somthing to aim for or would it lack from counter shooting attacks?


DIE already so I can bring you back to life with my necromancer and beat your mates up!  
   
Made in us
Dutiful Citizen Levy



Toms River

I'll tell you I usually like to have 2 units if about 10 bulls and maybe one unit of 'guts about the same size. Then characters (lvl 4, lvl2, bsb), then belchers then iron blaster. Then other stuff. That said I usually play at around 2500 pts. Some would tell you to run ~18 bulls in horde formation. Others would say min core and then special stuff. The important thing you need is staying power and smashing power. After that have fun.

Oh and.l you need 2-3 sabretusks as chaff, you just do. That's the only auto include I'd say. The only reason I say 2-3 is that you can't have more then 3 and they of course come in blisters of two. Damned pain in the arse.
   
 
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