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Made in ca
Focused Fire Warrior





Hi all,

I've been having some problems facing the new wood elves.

More specifically the waystone lvl4 and way watcher + lots of woods combo. That unit can pretty much teleport anywhere on the board! Meanwhile a strong line of 40 poison glade guards and another unit of way watchers kill my army as I try to advance.

How can I deal with that?

1500pt O'Vesa Star W: 27 D: 2 L: 1
The challenge: in a 1500pt game I will play 900pt + D6x100 pts, if I roll a 6 I reroll and -100 to that second number (down to 1000pt minimum)
W:6 D:0 L:1 
   
Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

Wings of Purity wrote:
Hi all,
I've been having some problems facing the new wood elves.
More specifically the waystone lvl4 and way watcher + lots of woods combo. That unit can pretty much teleport anywhere on the board! Meanwhile a strong line of 40 poison glade guards and another unit of way watchers kill my army as I try to advance.
How can I deal with that?


Shoot back. Shooting and magic missiles of any kind will gives them problems. MSU works well too, as wood elves seem to be bunching into large units to maximize the effects of the buff spells.
-Matt

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

Agreed on the magic missiles bit. I can't really engage them directly since they're so mobile usually. Warp lightning and scorch really lessened their numbers over time though. Their armor is made of absolute crap. Those sisters of twilight or whatever they're called are fairly well protected though.

Wood elf shooting is pretty crazy these days. Not sure if my opponent got it right but poisoned shooting, shooting that takes no negative modifiers, shooting that goes through armor completely and maybe one or two more. They have a lot of specialist type shots though I think I heard only one type per round or something. I'll tell you I'm just glad I don't play an army like bretonnia against those things. I'd last all of two seconds against those armor avoiding arrows.

I don't know about specific builds but yeah usually the best way to handle wood elves is magic missiles and similar. The opponent I faced had MSU wood elves so I imagine having MSU units wouldn't always be the best idea since they can split their fire better among more targets. It does make magic missiles effective against em though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/14 07:11:02


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Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

Against many targets, a high elf with a long bow is better than Glade Guard. It's not saying that High Elf Archers are good, but rather that Glade Guard are fairly expensive for what you get.

Take the bodkins vs Brettonians.
BS 4, save -3, sounds good right?
But, it's 17 points a model.
A unit of 14 (248 points), downs slightly less than 2 knights a turn average at range.
Then what happens if brettonians take some longbowmen as well? If they have the arrows to kill a few knights, they don't have the arrows to kill a horde of bowmen.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in gb
Disciplined Sea Guard





Lore of fire is a god send. As well as being flaming attacks for the ents (and I think dryads though I expect they will see less play in the new book) and one of the best magic missiles as your sig, but the flame cage penalizes their reliance on movement. What do you play?

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Inspiring Icon Bearer






I've not had a problem with my TK, I was worried that they would smoke my big stuff with poison before I could do too much, but elves die the open, just as well as they do hiding in woods from my bowfire. Skullapults do excellent. CAsket is ok, elves have solid LD and can spread out quickly. Their wildriders have poor choices of targets Either hordes of WS 6 skellies or T8. they could go after the cheap 10 man archer units I like to use. but if you beat them you tend to get t8 in the return. My scorps have done terrible. and the Hierotitan has been money with his shems on a 3+ I toss 1 dice at it almost every magic phase. No one likes to waste dice against a simple flaming magic missle vs TK's magic phase, but WE tend to not have a choice.

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Made in us
Newbie Black Templar Neophyte





Boise, Idaho

If your army has any teleporting-type abilities, use them. Wood Elves dominate at range against small, elite units. However, if said units can close the distance, WE will be slaughtered. Alternatively, field a few hordes. WE are awesome at downing expensive, important stuff, but I can say from experience that a huge horde of goblins is more terrifying than a dragon, Just be careful with moving them- the few CC units we have are actually quite good against hordes.

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Sslimey Sslyth




@Wings of Purity: What army do you play? That will help us give you some reasonable options.
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




Wings of Purity wrote:
Hi all,

I've been having some problems facing the new wood elves.

More specifically the waystone lvl4 and way watcher + lots of woods combo. That unit can pretty much teleport anywhere on the board! Meanwhile a strong line of 40 poison glade guards and another unit of way watchers kill my army as I try to advance.

How can I deal with that?


A level 4 can afford the acorn (+D3 forests) and thats all, you'd need a second level 3/4 to take the waystone in combination with that.

That's a LOT of points to just ferry around one unit full of T3 no armor models.

Magic missile it. Direct damage it, shoot it. Etc.
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Against many targets, a high elf with a long bow is better than Glade Guard. It's not saying that High Elf Archers are good, but rather that Glade Guard are fairly expensive for what you get.

Take the bodkins vs Brettonians.
BS 4, save -3, sounds good right?
But, it's 17 points a model.
A unit of 14 (248 points), downs slightly less than 2 knights a turn average at range.
Then what happens if brettonians take some longbowmen as well? If they have the arrows to kill a few knights, they don't have the arrows to kill a horde of bowmen.


Well I wouldn't know since I don't have the book.

A guy I faced seemed to have everything and he put it all in forests or just moved around with everybody. There's also the DT deal to worry about and stand and shoot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/15 00:34:52


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Made in nz
Heroic Senior Officer




New Zealand

My only opponent plays wood elves. I always manage to beat him once I have defeated his mages. Remember he can only have one arrow type per army. So only one squad can have poison while another might have the no movement modifier one.

No mages and he struggles to adequately buff his units, which die when looked at. Also light skirmish units do a heap. My skinks can march and shoot so speed gets you in quick. Make sure your hammer units are protected because if you havent killed his mages, their hammers will be buffed to no end.

His models are so expensive, the more he takes, the more of an advantage you have believe it or not. They are good but pricey. My 7 point javelin skinks put his archers to shame in small units of 12.

Once the mages are gone he may have heaps of single characters with crazy bows annoying the hell out of you, ignore them till last, its better to kill of his expensive magic arrow men first.

I find speed and winning the magic war is the best step to victory.
   
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





My only opponent plays wood elves. I always manage to beat him once I have defeated his mages. Remember he can only have one arrow type per army. So only one squad can have poison while another might have the no movement modifier one.


There is no rule like that at all in the book.
   
Made in nz
Heroic Senior Officer




New Zealand

Really? He said something like magic items can only be taken once per army or something like that? So only one unit can take an arrow type. Much like how I cant take a channeling staff on each of my mages or something. If he has just misread that then im sure he will be happy to know it. So one unit have the poison arrows, while no other unit can take it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/15 03:58:27


 
   
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





 Swastakowey wrote:
Really? He said something like magic items can only be taken once per army or something like that? So only one unit can take an arrow type. Much like how I cant take a channeling staff on each of my mages or something. If he has just misread that then im sure he will be happy to know it. So one unit have the poison arrows, while no other unit can take it.


Those are magic items he is thinking of.

The 'special unit arrrows' are those that can be taken per model in a unit, they can be taken on as many units as you want.
   
Made in nz
Heroic Senior Officer




New Zealand

Ok cool, well that shakes things up a bit, my game tonight may be a bit more interesting...

Cheers
   
Made in ca
Focused Fire Warrior





Saldiven wrote:
@Wings of Purity: What army do you play? That will help us give you some reasonable options.


My mistake, shoulda mentioned that earlier. I'm currently playing a high elves list that consist of roughly:

45 archers in 3 units
lvl 4 w/ BoH
Loremaster
28PG
Frost chicken
2 RBT
2x5sisters
5reavers

1500pt O'Vesa Star W: 27 D: 2 L: 1
The challenge: in a 1500pt game I will play 900pt + D6x100 pts, if I roll a 6 I reroll and -100 to that second number (down to 1000pt minimum)
W:6 D:0 L:1 
   
Made in ie
Sniping Hexa




Dublin

Don't want to derail the topic but about the 0-1 for arrows subject:
People are debating the topic, but the two only real effects of saying that those magic arrows are enchanted items means that they:
1) can be arcane unforged (not very useful against RnF)
2) cannot be duplicated

I'm not starting a YMDC argument here, so if you want to argue that point, do so in the correct section. This was just to inform about the reason of the questions about the arrows

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/15 06:13:20


 
   
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Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

I always thought they meant magic items in gear like for character models.

Things are getting a little weird with fantasy with the units which can cast spells. I guess this is the third unit that can do that at least outside of buff wagons. So far chaos daemons, dark elves and wood elves now have those units. Also just a question as I didn't see wood elf magic cavalry in action how do they compare to warlocks? They didn't seem that different but I haven't faced enough of either yet.

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Made in ca
Focused Fire Warrior





They are not magic items, there's nowhere on the book that says they are a magic item. Assuming something is a magic item because of it is taken for a few points and have special rules is like saying Tau is a combat oriented army because Kroots beat guardsmen...

1500pt O'Vesa Star W: 27 D: 2 L: 1
The challenge: in a 1500pt game I will play 900pt + D6x100 pts, if I roll a 6 I reroll and -100 to that second number (down to 1000pt minimum)
W:6 D:0 L:1 
   
Made in ie
Sniping Hexa




Dublin

As I said, this part belongs to a YMDC post

I do believe that WE are indeed VERY fragile when subjected to a shooting contest
Ok their bowmen are great, but they are expensive and -even with a defensive forest- not that hard to shoot at
I can see lots of armies happy to go toe to toe against them shooting-wise
Just need to be careful about counter-attacks by fast units that pack a punch (Wild Riders and Warhawks to a lesser extent)

 
   
Made in gb
Disciplined Sea Guard





Wings of Purity wrote:
Saldiven wrote:
@Wings of Purity: What army do you play? That will help us give you some reasonable options.


My mistake, shoulda mentioned that earlier. I'm currently playing a high elves list that consist of roughly:

45 archers in 3 units
lvl 4 w/ BoH
Loremaster
28PG
Frost chicken
2 RBT
2x5sisters
5reavers

Use the reavers speed to your advantage. Shoot at him, and use Loremasters Fireball to blast his units. Have the sisters shoot every turn that they can. You can out magic them but you need to be careful and consider what spells to dispel. The frost phoenix should try and make it into combat with their mages unit as soon as possible. What lore do you tend to use with HE? Because walk between worlds from high magic is a godsend when it comes to dealing with fast moving teleporting units like WE. The archers should get into position and shoot. You may want to consider getting a fire phoenix - the frost heart is great but I think against WE the fire phoenix has the edge.

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Inspiring Icon Bearer






Wings of Purity wrote:
They are not magic items, there's nowhere on the book that says they are a magic item. Assuming something is a magic item because of it is taken for a few points and have special rules is like saying Tau is a combat oriented army because Kroots beat guardsmen...


Page 37 Wood Elf Book. Second section under enchanted arrows. second sentence: "These are enchanted items, but do not prevent a model from having a second enchanted item"

The prevalence of magic casting units is interesting, until the DE book, only horrors were the only one who could. There are others but are bound spells (Casket, Hierotitan, empire trains, and I think VC are bound. Bell can too, with scorch, but that's wacky like most of that book anyways)

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Made in ca
Focused Fire Warrior





 Acardia wrote:
Wings of Purity wrote:
They are not magic items, there's nowhere on the book that says they are a magic item. Assuming something is a magic item because of it is taken for a few points and have special rules is like saying Tau is a combat oriented army because Kroots beat guardsmen...


Page 37 Wood Elf Book. Second section under enchanted arrows. second sentence: "These are enchanted items, but do not prevent a model from having a second enchanted item"

The prevalence of magic casting units is interesting, until the DE book, only horrors were the only one who could. There are others but are bound spells (Casket, Hierotitan, empire trains, and I think VC are bound. Bell can too, with scorch, but that's wacky like most of that book anyways)


And I stand corrected


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've been running lore of shadow for a while now. But I think with my new idea of MSU High elves I will be running High lore, since soul quench and WBW are both so powerful not just against wood elves...

Thanks guys.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/16 05:18:07


1500pt O'Vesa Star W: 27 D: 2 L: 1
The challenge: in a 1500pt game I will play 900pt + D6x100 pts, if I roll a 6 I reroll and -100 to that second number (down to 1000pt minimum)
W:6 D:0 L:1 
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

It wasn't easy but I managed to out-magic my opponent with lots of warpstone tokens in the triple warlock build (each with warp lightning). It was a close game but I won and against a really good player. So yeah first big win in a while. I should probably drop some stuff so that I can fit more units and such in. I may be spending too much on characters.

Wood elf armor and wards are pretty gak though i'll admit those sisters should be heavily protected against magic.

That said they were normally an orcs and goblins player and had to deal with certain disagreements. Only thing I cared about was the ability to have warp lightning on each of my warlocks since they can all substitute that spell and all should be able to have it. I thought it was pretty clear that if you substitute a spell for something else because the rulebook says you can that multiples of that wizard can have the same spell. Therefore 3 warlocks can be subbed to have warp lightning which is helpful against skirmishers and small elite armies.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/16 17:32:11


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Dublin

Yes, all warlocks can have warp-lightning as it is indeed their default substitution spell ("signature" really)

 
   
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I played against them yesterday with my all mobile empire. WE can't do well vs a Steam Tank. Magic Missiles work wonders.

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 Pyeatt wrote:
... Drop pod in some salamandars and burn those Ent devils down.


The OP has later said that he plays High Elves. Only Lizardmen have Salamanders and even then I'm not sure what a drop pod is. Did you get that from the rough translation of a Slann's belch?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/19 14:08:37


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Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

The shoot them back plan worked wonders.
2 doom divers and 3 direct damage spells was all it took.
The manglers and 6 chariots forced him to use his shooting on my chaff. By the time he was safe from the manglers and chariots, the orc infantry were on him and half his guys were dead from magic/shooting.
Opponent conceded on turn 3 rather than being tabled.

-Matt

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
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Nihilistic Necron Lord




The best State-Texas

 Wilytank wrote:
 Pyeatt wrote:
... Drop pod in some salamandars and burn those Ent devils down.


The OP has later said that he plays High Elves. Only Lizardmen have Salamanders and even then I'm not sure what a drop pod is. Did you get that from the rough translation of a Slann's belch?


He's making a 40k joke.

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