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That sounds great. Including a campaign in the starter to give us an idea how this will work would be a wise move.

Someone in WFB general has the starter and is assembling it. Hoping to hear some details on what's in that 96 page book.

 Fezza213 wrote:
For list building, I see nothing wrong with something like this:

10 warscrolls
1-3 heroes
0-2 monsters
2+ core
No unit may have more then 25 wounds (25 can be changed to any number agreed upon). That would mean you could play with 20 1 wound skeletons (aka horde) or 10 2 wound chosen etc etc. Considering that looking at the warscrolls we have seen then that 20 man skeleton unit would have the capability of killing anything due to rolling on a fixed number (saves make it harder of course).

That is no different to me then the previous fantasy army composition tables, or 40k:

It's very different, since it results in a unit of 1 skeleton and a unit of 20 skeletons having the same 'cost' to include them in the army.

...but one that stood out was that he said that going forward there would be a very heavy focus on campaigns which would have campaign specific rules and ways of playing/building lists etc etc.

Which is great if you're interested in playing in campaigns. Less so if you're used to playing stand-alone pick-up games.

He did say that some house rules would always needed but pointed out that we already do this for old fantasy as well as 40k.

If house rules are needed to play the game, then that's a big fail, right at the gate. If GW are acknowledging that the game is unplayable without altering the rules before it is even released then, frankly, the release needs to be cancelled until they can finish writing the rules.


The fact that 40K and WHFB also needed house rules to be functional doesn't make it any less inexcusable for them to release yet another broken ruleset.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sidstyler wrote:
The art for this all looks really good, surprisingly. Although it's all really samey, except for Sigmar fighting the earthy-looking colossus.

This, I have to agree with. Visually, I like pretty much everything about this release, and their promotional stuff is fantastic. They appear to have stolen Forgeworld's photographer, which is awesome... I'm a big fan of those battle pics.

 Eldarain wrote:
That sounds great. Including a campaign in the starter to give us an idea how this will work would be a wise move.

Someone in WFB general has the starter and is assembling it. Hoping to hear some details on what's in that 96 page book.

I dont think we will see a campaign in the starter, I see that as a fully self contained box designed to be played as is so there would be no need to build list as you just have two sides already. I am thinking we will see something next week which will have those details.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Relapse wrote:
The FLGS here is pretty stoked on the game and giving a free $35 dollar box of whatever someone who buys a copy wants.

I'd probably drop the cash if mine did that, too.

I mean, I guess I could save myself $90 and just buy the $35 box, but the Chaos blokes in the box are growing on me.

That sounds like a fantastic way to get people excited, generate sales AND clear out a lot of dead stock that would likely just sit on a shelf for who-knows how long. Brilliantly done.

 Fezza213 wrote:
For list building, I see nothing wrong with something like this:

10 warscrolls
1-3 heroes
0-2 monsters
2+ core
No unit may have more then 25 wounds (25 can be changed to any number agreed upon). That would mean you could play with 20 1 wound skeletons (aka horde) or 10 2 wound chosen etc etc. Considering that looking at the warscrolls we have seen then that 20 man skeleton unit would have the capability of killing anything due to rolling on a fixed number (saves make it harder of course).

That is no different to me then the previous fantasy army composition tables, or 40k:

2000 points
No super heavies
No Lords of war
maximum 3 sources (detachments/formations).

Personally I think people are forgetting the fact that there is rumoured to be 3 or 4 months of fantasy releases, my local FLGS was telling me yesterday, most questions I asked he said come back Saturday but one that stood out was that he said that going forward there would be a very heavy focus on campaigns which would have campaign specific rules and ways of playing/building lists etc etc. He did say that some house rules would always needed but pointed out that we already do this for old fantasy as well as 40k.

The problem is at the moment we haven't seen those scenarios and a lot of people are assuming the worst.

Fez

So you don't see anything wrong with valuing 1 wound goblins the same as 1 wound Warriors of Chaos?

 ImAGeek wrote:
I kind of sadistically would be interested to see the fallout of this kind of reboot but for 40k...

Tempt not the Dark Gods....they might answer you.

This isn't a reboot of WFB. Even GW knows that, and I've talked about it with them. WFB is dead. A lot of the anger is we all know this, we are just in mourning and denial. It's an ongoing funeral. And at the funeral some two of the little kids who don't know better are rolling dice and moving their toys around on the sidewalk, and even though you desperately want to run over and play with them, you're at a funeral.

Some of the new rules are 40k. The turn sequence is Move/magicpsychicherostuff/shooting/assault. You don't charge at the beginning of your turn. You can move up, fire ranged weapons, and then assault 2d6". It will be very fluid, similar to 40k. Maybe even more so, as you are never truly locked in combat. Someone can charge you in their turn, you fight. Next turn you can shoot your bows into them before you fight hand to hand again. Or you can choose to retreat away from the combat and try to get some distance. Retreating does keep you from shooting or assaulting though.

Another interesting things: All Mephiston, All the Time!!! All characters are outside of units and cannot join them. You can't mix warscrolls. But judging by the major and minor characters in AOS, they will all have a lot more wounds and attacks. I'm betting on Glottkin having 20 wounds and Nagash 12.

They named them Prosecutors?




Dear AncientSkarbrand,

I don't dislike you, and I'll say it publicly!

I was just making a point.

New terrain is coming out, but unlike some of the older fantasy terrain (temple of skulls, arcane fulcrums, ancient temple ruins) there is really no way to convert it to 40K use. Sad.

New RoB tiles though. That's a plus.

Anyone notice the new spray is £17? Aren't they currently £11?

 Fezza213 wrote:
For list building, I see nothing wrong with something like this:

10 warscrolls
1-3 heroes
0-2 monsters
2+ core
No unit may have more then 25 wounds (25 can be changed to any number agreed upon). That would mean you could play with 20 1 wound skeletons (aka horde) or 10 2 wound chosen etc etc. Considering that looking at the warscrolls we have seen then that 20 man skeleton unit would have the capability of killing anything due to rolling on a fixed number (saves make it harder of course).

That is no different to me then the previous fantasy army composition tables, or 40k:

2000 points
No super heavies
No Lords of war
maximum 3 sources (detachments/formations).


Personally I think people are forgetting the fact that there is rumoured to be 3 or 4 months of fantasy releases, my local FLGS was telling me yesterday, most questions I asked he said come back Saturday but one that stood out was that he said that going forward there would be a very heavy focus on campaigns which would have campaign specific rules and ways of playing/building lists etc etc. He did say that some house rules would always needed but pointed out that we already do this for old fantasy as well as 40k.

The problem is at the moment we haven't seen those scenarios and a lot of people are assuming the worst.

Fez

I'm not sure we are "assuming the worst". Just assuming GW does average is pretty grim and scary. They don't do a lot of support. And they truly don't give a skavens tail about balance. The system you posted got sent out to stores as a suggestion. It will encourage people to only bring the baddest, broken, OP stuff they can possibly get their hands on. Why not? If Nagash is equal in cost to a Goblin hero. Why would you ever take less than the 3 biggest characters you have in your collection. Might be fun, but will certainly be the death of any models that aren't the best of the best.

I read the scenarios in AoS today. Not bad and they will probably work if you just own the starter box. But if you are hoping for scenarios for your old WFB army, i'd say start writing them yourself for you and your friends. You won't see much from GW, and certainly not beyond the starter box and whatever new they put out. They will be focused on AoS, not on old models .

I just finished reading though the leaks, and can't stop laughing.

battleplan (scenario)

 Kalamadea wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Relapse wrote:
The FLGS here is pretty stoked on the game and giving a free $35 dollar box of whatever someone who buys a copy wants.

I'd probably drop the cash if mine did that, too.

I mean, I guess I could save myself $90 and just buy the $35 box, but the Chaos blokes in the box are growing on me.

That sounds like a fantastic way to get people excited, generate sales AND clear out a lot of dead stock that would likely just sit on a shelf for who-knows how long. Brilliantly done.

Actually, they're going to order it in if needed. There's a fairly good sized Fantasy crowd here.

What the actual feth is a "Bloodsecrator?"

 Azreal13 wrote:
What the actual feth is a "Bloodsecrator?"

I think it's from some heavy metal lyrics.

 Laughing Man wrote:

Spoiler:

 Fezza213 wrote:
For list building, I see nothing wrong with something like this:

10 warscrolls
1-3 heroes
0-2 monsters
2+ core
No unit may have more then 25 wounds (25 can be changed to any number agreed upon). That would mean you could play with 20 1 wound skeletons (aka horde) or 10 2 wound chosen etc etc. Considering that looking at the warscrolls we have seen then that 20 man skeleton unit would have the capability of killing anything due to rolling on a fixed number (saves make it harder of course).

That is no different to me then the previous fantasy army composition tables, or 40k:

2000 points
No super heavies
No Lords of war
maximum 3 sources (detachments/formations).

Personally I think people are forgetting the fact that there is rumoured to be 3 or 4 months of fantasy releases, my local FLGS was telling me yesterday, most questions I asked he said come back Saturday but one that stood out was that he said that going forward there would be a very heavy focus on campaigns which would have campaign specific rules and ways of playing/building lists etc etc. He did say that some house rules would always needed but pointed out that we already do this for old fantasy as well as 40k.

The problem is at the moment we haven't seen those scenarios and a lot of people are assuming the worst.

Fez

So you don't see anything wrong with valuing 1 wound goblins the same as 1 wound Warriors of Chaos?

Your assuming that chosen will only have 1 wound. Looking at the warscrolls for the starter kit all of the "troop" type of units all have 2 wounds.

 Azreal13 wrote:
What the actual feth is a "Bloodsecrator?"

It's just like a Bloodsecretor, but with more skulls.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Albino Squirrel wrote:
I still think, even with balanced armies, the rules don't sound fun. There are already several things that can stack on top of each other to affect your damage output (formation/battalion bonus, leader ability bonus, terrain bonus, winning previous game bonus?). It sounds rather annoying to keep track of all that, and for outcomes to be more about those things than about the actual strengths/weaknesses of the units engaged.

But maybe other warscrolls will add more interesting elements. Or just make way more stuff to keep track of.

Do you play 40k? With the newest Codices? There are special rules for each unit, plus the formation, plus the detachment, in addition to any character / weapon upgrades taken. It's starting to get out of hand.

Honestly, I haven't played any 40k since before 7th edition was released. I'm not a fan of the formation/detachment special rules.

I suppose it will really come down to the warscrolls, and if the units can be used in different and interesting ways. I do find the lack of normal terrain rules disappointing. At this smaller scale, and with everything essentially skirmishing, there can be a lot more terrain than in a Warhammer Fantasy game. But it won't really matter, since it won't have much of an impact unless you use the special terrain rules, in which case it will have a stupid and random impact.,

Well at least it looks like some units still get something out of command models.

 mikhaila wrote:

Spoiler:

 Fezza213 wrote:
For list building, I see nothing wrong with something like this:

10 warscrolls
1-3 heroes
0-2 monsters
2+ core
No unit may have more then 25 wounds (25 can be changed to any number agreed upon). That would mean you could play with 20 1 wound skeletons (aka horde) or 10 2 wound chosen etc etc. Considering that looking at the warscrolls we have seen then that 20 man skeleton unit would have the capability of killing anything due to rolling on a fixed number (saves make it harder of course).

That is no different to me then the previous fantasy army composition tables, or 40k:

2000 points
No super heavies
No Lords of war
maximum 3 sources (detachments/formations).


Personally I think people are forgetting the fact that there is rumoured to be 3 or 4 months of fantasy releases, my local FLGS was telling me yesterday, most questions I asked he said come back Saturday but one that stood out was that he said that going forward there would be a very heavy focus on campaigns which would have campaign specific rules and ways of playing/building lists etc etc. He did say that some house rules would always needed but pointed out that we already do this for old fantasy as well as 40k.

The problem is at the moment we haven't seen those scenarios and a lot of people are assuming the worst.

Fez

I'm not sure we are "assuming the worst". Just assuming GW does average is pretty grim and scary. They don't do a lot of support. And they truly don't give a skavens tail about balance. The system you posted got sent out to stores as a suggestion. It will encourage people to only bring the baddest, broken, OP stuff they can possibly get their hands on. Why not? If Nagash is equal in cost to a Goblin hero. Why would you ever take less than the 3 biggest characters you have in your collection. Might be fun, but will certainly be the death of any models that aren't the best of the best.

I read the scenarios in AoS today. Not bad and they will probably work if you just own the starter box. But if you are hoping for scenarios for your old WFB army, i'd say start writing them yourself for you and your friends. You won't see much from GW, and certainly not beyond the starter box and whatever new they put out. They will be focused on AoS, not on old models .

You might not be assuming the worst but certainly a large number are.

Isn't that how heroes work now? there has been talk about factions gaining bonuses so if i want to run an orc army would it really be that beneficial to also run nagash? And isnt the scenario you just described how most games work anyway? In my 40k Ork army its a warboss, painboy or zhagstrukk. My big mek with shokk attack gun only gets brought out for lols, my weirdboy is the same unless you happen to come across some sort of synergy/formation which benefits from the two then purely on power value neither the big mek or weirdboy get a game. How many "useless" HQ's are there? If you are taking an orc and goblins army what about taking a hero who buffs your orcs and goblins? Due to the way the hit, wound and saves work all rolling on a fixed number (modified by rend and specials only) it is definitely possible that that lowly goblin unit could kill nagash or a bloodthirster. Its unlikely but definitely possible.

I agree though, scenarios will be aimed at new AoS units but I am definitely expecting ways which you can field old units maybe not the best ways but still able to otherwise certain races will be obsolete until GW get around to releasing stuff.

Fez

 Mort wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:
I'm just going to go ahead and deny that round bases will be a thing. IT'S JUST A RUMOUR PEOPLE! Everyone should calm down and wait till they've bought the new game before they rush to judgements. You have to buy the game to know whats in the game.

There's direct scans from the WD this coming week that explain bases are irrelevant. You can use any shape base you want. Round bases are a 'thing' just as square ones or triangular ones or hex ones are.

Or, you might have been sarcastic... hard to tell.

Nope, i'm putting my foot down. The new basing system will NOT be round, it'll be square like it always was. Until the new game hits the stores there's just NO WAY to tell.

Relapse wrote:
The FLGS here is pretty stoked on the game and giving a free $35 dollar box of whatever someone who buys a copy wants.

I'm just giving my guys the 35.00 in cash For all my grumbling about the death of WFB, i still want people playing. Gives me more incentive to work on that points system. Selling AoS for 90 at both shops. Tossed an offer for folks on Dakka in the swap shop, but shipping might not make it as good as your local shop might offer. But certainly better than GW.

Mikhaila you are a true hero of Dakka.

 Fezza213 wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

Spoiler:

 Fezza213 wrote:
For list building, I see nothing wrong with something like this:

10 warscrolls
1-3 heroes
0-2 monsters
2+ core
No unit may have more then 25 wounds (25 can be changed to any number agreed upon). That would mean you could play with 20 1 wound skeletons (aka horde) or 10 2 wound chosen etc etc. Considering that looking at the warscrolls we have seen then that 20 man skeleton unit would have the capability of killing anything due to rolling on a fixed number (saves make it harder of course).

That is no different to me then the previous fantasy army composition tables, or 40k:

2000 points
No super heavies
No Lords of war
maximum 3 sources (detachments/formations).


Personally I think people are forgetting the fact that there is rumoured to be 3 or 4 months of fantasy releases, my local FLGS was telling me yesterday, most questions I asked he said come back Saturday but one that stood out was that he said that going forward there would be a very heavy focus on campaigns which would have campaign specific rules and ways of playing/building lists etc etc. He did say that some house rules would always needed but pointed out that we already do this for old fantasy as well as 40k.

The problem is at the moment we haven't seen those scenarios and a lot of people are assuming the worst.

Fez

I'm not sure we are "assuming the worst". Just assuming GW does average is pretty grim and scary. They don't do a lot of support. And they truly don't give a skavens tail about balance. The system you posted got sent out to stores as a suggestion. It will encourage people to only bring the baddest, broken, OP stuff they can possibly get their hands on. Why not? If Nagash is equal in cost to a Goblin hero. Why would you ever take less than the 3 biggest characters you have in your collection. Might be fun, but will certainly be the death of any models that aren't the best of the best.

I read the scenarios in AoS today. Not bad and they will probably work if you just own the starter box. But if you are hoping for scenarios for your old WFB army, i'd say start writing them yourself for you and your friends. You won't see much from GW, and certainly not beyond the starter box and whatever new they put out. They will be focused on AoS, not on old models .

You might not be assuming the worst but certainly a large number are.

Isn't that how heroes work now? there has been talk about factions gaining bonuses so if i want to run an orc army would it really be that beneficial to also run nagash? And isnt the scenario you just described how most games work anyway? In my 40k Ork army its a warboss, painboy or zhagstrukk. My big mek with shokk attack gun only gets brought out for lols, my weirdboy is the same unless you happen to come across some sort of synergy/formation which benefits from the two then purely on power value neither the big mek or weirdboy get a game. How many "useless" HQ's are there? If you are taking an orc and goblins army what about taking a hero who buffs your orcs and goblins? Due to the way the hit, wound and saves work all rolling on a fixed number (modified by rend and specials only) it is definitely possible that that lowly goblin unit could kill nagash or a bloodthirster. Its unlikely but definitely possible.

I agree though, scenarios will be aimed at new AoS units but I am definitely expecting ways which you can field old units maybe not the best ways but still able to otherwise certain races will be obsolete until GW get around to releasing stuff.

Fez

From what I looked at in my preview copy of AoS, it looks like in addition to Warscrolls there will be Battalion scrolls. Similar to 40k. Take X, Y, and Z, get this bonus. The chaos one listed pretty much the starter set models. You gain two abilities:
1) If a unit from the battalion successfully charged this turn, then all other units from that battalion get to re-roll charge dice.
2) If any unit died this turn, the units in the battalion get one additional attack from all weapons. For instance, the Khorne lord gets two weapons. I think his sword has 4 attacks, which goes to 5. The pet fleshhound gets 3 attacks and goes to 4. Most models have one weapon, which might have multiple attacks, might do more than 1 wound, and might even double as a ranged weapon.

So if similar things are available for each army, there is a reason to take those troops. And heroes will have abilities that aid their troops.

But..If I can just add any hero to my force? Those little bonuses from key words probably aren't going to equal what Nagash or a Blood thirster can do. Or Tamurkhan on a Toad Dragon I hear Forgeworld will also have warscrolls up for their stuff.

Which brings up a bonus about AoS. If we can't take the silly game seriously, then it's the perfect time to bring out the Toad Dragons and War Mammoths.

 Fezza213 wrote:
How many "useless" HQ's are there?

This doesn't make your point. Quite the opposite, in fact... GW's apparent unwillingness to make options equally useful in 40K doesn't make it any more palatable in a new game.


I rather strongly suspect that most players would prefer that SAG to be more fun to put on the table, rather than just writing it off as 'Oh well, that's the way it is...'

I'm still expecting them to suddenly release a big top secret book with organized play rules with point values and all. When that day comes, I'll yell, "See! I tolja!!" .. even if it's 10 years from now.

 Necros wrote:
I'm still expecting them to suddenly release a big top secret book with organized play rules with point values and all. When that day comes, I'll yell, "See! I tolja!!" .. even if it's 10 years from now.

And when it doesn't?

I just love this whole Warscroll thing.

"Ok man, you wanna play empire that's cool."

"Naw man, you can't just buy a few units to get started."

"You gotta pick a Warscroll and buy like $300 worth of models, assemble all 50 or so of them, and paint em' long before you even come close to playing your first game"

It sells itself, really!

Mr.Church13 wrote:
I just love this whole Warscroll thing.

"Ok man, you wanna play empire that's cool."

"Naw man, you can't just buy a few units to get started."

"You gotta pick a Warscroll and buy like $300 worth of models, assemble all 50 or so of them, and paint em' long before you even come close to playing your first game"

It sells itself, really!

Some scrolls are as few as one fig, or five. Where do you get 50 models/$300 from? I mean, based on what we know, you -could- make some warscrolls that big, but I don't see where it's a requirement, unless I missed something...

If it's anything like the 40k formations there's gonna be a ton of model per scroll.

And all the preview scrolls I've seen have been hefty so I expect getting into the game is gonna be far more than just an HQ and 2 troops.