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I don't see how this works, but my opponent in my first 7th edition game said that his archon could use his save for all the flamer wounds resolved against his unit... with the 2+ invul on the first wound, this essentially negated 5/6 of all my flamer induced wounds...


How the hell does this make any sense at all?

( I didn't argue about it, but I made damn sure to try and figure out on my own if this is the rule or not.)

As long as the Archon was closest to the firing unit he was correct. Weapons are resolved one at a time, and wounds are allocated to the closest model.

Was his archon the closest model to the firing unit?

Unfortunately, this was a change in 6th that made this exploit possible. Here's how it goes:

You fire your flamer. Let's just say you get 5 hits on their unit, and 4 successful wounds. Now there is a Wound pool of 4 dice that needs to be allocated to the unit that was hit. According to the rules, you have to go for the closest model first, which in this case is the Archon. The Archon then rolls his save and passes. Again, per the rules, wounds have to keep being allocated to the closest model until he dies, meaning that the Archon continues to roll saves until such a point that he dies (or the owning player chooses to attempt Look Out, Sir).

You're absolutely right - it doesn't make any sense. But since there are no special rules for allocating template wounds, it's unfortunately how it works.

Oi, well at least I don't feel wronged by him, just irritated with the rule.

Just to refine the point a bit more, ordance weapons are resolved from the center of the blast marker, so this gimmick cannot be used with them -- correct?

Center of the blast marker, then spread out as each model dies.

Nope you're thinking of barrage weapons. Ordnance is allocated to the closest model as per regular wound resolution.

Barrage weapons, which aren't necessarily ordnance, the barrage rule is the one that allocates from the center of the blast. So unless the scatter dice conspire to center on that same Archon, the shenanigans mentioned above don't come into play.

Dat ninja

bryceloop wrote:
Oi, well at least I don't feel wronged by him, just irritated with the rule.

Just to refine the point a bit more, ordance weapons are resolved from the center of the blast marker, so this gimmick cannot be used with them -- correct?

First its barrage, not ordnance, that resolves LoS and allocation from the center of the blast

And all a barrage does is do it from the center of the blast, if archeon is closest to the center of the blast it would still happen

bryceloop wrote:
Oi, well at least I don't feel wronged by him, just irritated with the rule.

You get to move before you shoot. Move to a different spot and avoid the Archon entirely with your flamer.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

bryceloop wrote:
Oi, well at least I don't feel wronged by him, just irritated with the rule.

You get to move before you shoot. Move to a different spot and avoid the Archon entirely with your flamer.

Assuming that after the move the Archon is no longer the closest model...

 Locclo wrote:
Unfortunately, this was a change in 6th that made this exploit possible. Here's how it goes:

You fire your flamer. Let's just say you get 5 hits on their unit, and 4 successful wounds. Now there is a Wound pool of 4 dice that needs to be allocated to the unit that was hit. According to the rules, you have to go for the closest model first, which in this case is the Archon. The Archon then rolls his save and passes. Again, per the rules, wounds have to keep being allocated to the closest model until he dies, meaning that the Archon continues to roll saves until such a point that he dies (or the owning player chooses to attempt Look Out, Sir).

You're absolutely right - it doesn't make any sense. But since there are no special rules for allocating template wounds, it's unfortunately how it works.

coorect up till you talk about LOS'ing after saves, You must LOS before saves are rolled.

cheers,

Even better, wound allocation is done from the closest model in the unit - not necessarily the closest firing model. You just need one guy to move around to the side to make other models the closest in the unit, and the flame wounds will come from him.

Mind you, sometimes you want the Archon to be closest when dealing out a large number of wounds, simply to make his shadow field fail.

 easysauce wrote:

 Locclo wrote:
Unfortunately, this was a change in 6th that made this exploit possible. Here's how it goes:

You fire your flamer. Let's just say you get 5 hits on their unit, and 4 successful wounds. Now there is a Wound pool of 4 dice that needs to be allocated to the unit that was hit. According to the rules, you have to go for the closest model first, which in this case is the Archon. The Archon then rolls his save and passes. Again, per the rules, wounds have to keep being allocated to the closest model until he dies, meaning that the Archon continues to roll saves until such a point that he dies (or the owning player chooses to attempt Look Out, Sir).

You're absolutely right - it doesn't make any sense. But since there are no special rules for allocating template wounds, it's unfortunately how it works.

coorect up till you talk about LOS'ing after saves, You must LOS before saves are rolled.

cheers,

Unless I missed a change in 7e, you can decide on a wound, by wound basis when to LOS!

Just like you could in 6th. But it's still done before taking saves.

I'd just go ahead and shoot the archon unless he's got a re-roll on that 2+.

Witness these mad photoshop skillz.

Well with that visual, it makes perfect sense.

whats the white stuff on the rock?

What's on that rock on the side? Archon get overexcited because of the flamer?


*EDIT* The flamer from God apparently

How is this different from sixth? You always applied wounds to the closest model first.