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So, i'm a very visual learner and have always loved watching full bat-reps. I have usually been a 40k player, so thanks to some suggestions and experience I can usually find a wealth of good battle-report videos, but i'm wondering if there are any best choices for Warmachine/Hordes battle-reports?

I prefer minimally edited ones so one can see turns actually play out, versus post-turn recaps.

Thanks!

Chain Attack is one of the best I think

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQTsyieQ0QgCk78kBa3VC6A

Advanced Maneuvers is a close second in my opinion

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8vHilCtHsfvz-UeqKEXmpA

Then you get into ones that have more mistakes in the games (ruleswise) but are still pretty good. I don't mind the 'Gaming with the Cooler' youtube channel for WM/H, but he's more human in terms of complaining/making mistakes. 'Frozen Kommander' is also good, he's a younger bloke who has his batreps both here on dakka and on youtube, and you can really see him get better and better in terms of his videos over time, but again he makes a few errors, but he's only human (as opposed to the guys who run Chain Attack, who play at the big tournaments all the time and thus have a very firm grasp on the rules. I'm not saying they don't make mistakes, just that they are rare)

Anyway those are my picks. I also am subscribed to Crippled Systems and Counter Slam on youtube, but I can't remember how good they are (haven't got around to watching their stuff for a few weeks).

PP just had their Lock'n'load tournament this weekend, and they were streaming full length games with commentary. They're high level competition games, of course, so it might be a bit different to what you're looking for in learning the game. You should be able to find some on their twitch page somewhere (on my phone at the moment, so I can't look it up exactly).

http://www.twitch.tv/privateerpress


Sadly the other repository for full length games I used to watch - endgamegaming - has shut down for the moment, though hopefully it'll come back at some point.

I forgot endgamegaming. It's shutdown? Nooooooo

edit: I know you said temporarily, but still. That sucks.

Wow. All that is great guys! Thanks.

Its funny you mention "Beat Cooler" as I always loved Miniwargaming.com for 40k Bat-Reps, but as you say, they make for good, casual, enjoyable viewing, where one just has to accept mistakes will be made, or certain official rules skirted.

He has really tightened up his WM/H play since then. It's not as polished as other channels as I said, but definitely better than his MWG days.

 motyak wrote:
I forgot endgamegaming. It's shutdown? Nooooooo

edit: I know you said temporarily, but still. That sucks.

Hopefully it will, the guy making them (mattyk) is taking a break for the moment, for reasons unknown (hopefully nothing too bad), but he's still around and was apparently at Lock'n'load as well. Hopefully he'll get his videos (and tournament reports) back up at some point, as they were excellent, and very much appreciated.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens, the 'temporarily' was a guess (and a bit of hope) on my part, based on the fact his absence has been described as a break, not an end.

You should look at Miniwargamings WM/H league season two, far better than season one. It's edited a bit to reduce the time of the video (just when the players are thinking or moving large amount of models) but besides that it is perfect for learning the game and seeing what the other factions can do, in my opinion of course.

A few more that haven't been mentioned yet.

If you are looking for videos to watch games while learning the game Wargamer Girls bat reps are really good.

http://www.youtube.com/user/WarGamerGirl

Crippled system crew do a podcast every week they also have posted some bat reps to youtube

http://www.youtube.com/user/CrippledSystem?feature=watch

Then there is the counter clam crew as well

http://www.youtube.com/user/vegron

Muse on Minis Enter the Crucible also have posted 2 full length bat reps recently.

http://museonminis.com/enter-crucible-video-2-harbinger-menoth-versus-warwitch-deneghra/
http://museonminis.com/enter-crucible-video-1-borka-kegslayer-versus-grand-exemplar-kreoss/

Don't touch MWG.

I can accept a few rules mistakes every now and then, but the number they have is just infuriating. They get very basic rules wrong(and seem to not bother to correct their mistakes)

They sometimes can't even remember what their own factions units are called.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Don't touch MWG.

I can accept a few rules mistakes every now and then, but the number they have is just infuriating. They get very basic rules wrong(and seem to not bother to correct their mistakes)

They sometimes can't even remember what their own factions units are called.

Interesting I've been watching their WM/H S2 league trying to learn some tactics and strategies, I don't suppose you could provide some examples of their mistakes from those games? Don't want to end up learning the game incorrectly.

Love Advanced Maneuvers, I get excited when my phone alerts me that they posted a new video usually a nice Friday Surprise.

 Jaceevoke wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Don't touch MWG.

I can accept a few rules mistakes every now and then, but the number they have is just infuriating. They get very basic rules wrong(and seem to not bother to correct their mistakes)

They sometimes can't even remember what their own factions units are called.

Interesting I've been watching their WM/H S2 league trying to learn some tactics and strategies, I don't suppose you could provide some examples of their mistakes from those games? Don't want to end up learning the game incorrectly.

If you want tactical mistakes and strategies that list is even longer than their rule mistakes.

Give me a little time and I'll suffer through a couple batreps for you.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Jaceevoke wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Don't touch MWG.

I can accept a few rules mistakes every now and then, but the number they have is just infuriating. They get very basic rules wrong(and seem to not bother to correct their mistakes)

They sometimes can't even remember what their own factions units are called.

Interesting I've been watching their WM/H S2 league trying to learn some tactics and strategies, I don't suppose you could provide some examples of their mistakes from those games? Don't want to end up learning the game incorrectly.

If you want tactical mistakes and strategies that list is even longer than their rule mistakes.

Give me a little time and I'll suffer through a couple batreps for you.

Thanks, I had thought they would have been better since it was actual players competing for prizes rather than paid employees.

Ok, I saw this one myself shortly after it was posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2_T2Agi-4bA

Well first off. The lists.

Actually first off, the commentator was exceedingly annoying. Every person who has commentated on MWGs videos just grinds me gears a little.


Now lists...

the Cygnar list was ok.

Questionable choice of Chargers instead of Hunters for the Gunmages to Marshal, but thats not horrible. They don't benefit from Powerful Attack on their guns.


Trolls...

is all I can say about list composition.

You have Jarl, which is a shooty focused warlock. Taking Mulg, Pyre Troll, and 2 Impalers as his battle group. Impalers may have a decent ranged attack, but that isn't what they are for. They are for giving Snipe to shooting models that matter, like the Bomber. And you only take 1. Mulg wants a speed boost pretty bad, and you don't have Rush from the Axer to give it to him.

He takes Longriders, which are not a bad unit.

He takes Slaughter Housers... Which are also not a bad unit but do absolutely nothing for him in his list(Other than die to shooting as happened in the batrep)

Fellcaller has nothing to buff with his calls except for Longriders who, because they are fast, will just outdistance him(or be forced to move slower)



Ok, actual battle report. Rife with tactical and strategic errors.

Mistake #1: Jarl feating at the top of turn 1.

This might have been a good idea if the troll player was going second(and thus feating on the bottom of 1)

The reason this is a mistake is because the Cygnar army isn't going to get much meaningful shooting on you if they are going second even if you run most everything as far forward as possible. So the feat was basically wasted. It would have been better to wait till turn 2, get your army in close, and then feat to protect them with the clouds so that the following turn you can walk into melee(walk because pHaley has Temporal Barrier and you'll never be charging)

If he had waited till turn 2(and kept the Long Riders farther back) he could have protected his army from some actual shooting and been in range for more of his Long Riders to advance into melee.

Mistake #2: Troll player having nothing but Horthol on the left flank. This is a scenario mistake because, if that is the objective that stays, there is nothing but a single solo between him and that objective(which is worth more points) and that is exactly what happened.


Mistake #3: Advancing the Long Riders forward to just die.

Thats a very expensive unit he basically just gave to his opponent for nothing.

He should have backed up to outside of Haley's control area and threatened charge/slams to anything which comes too far forward.


Mistake #4: Forcing is not Riling. Riling is a specific action a beast can do. Minor nitpick, but important for newer players that they not get confused.


Mistake #5: Dragoons do NOT go through Disabled-Boxed-Destroyed when they dismount. They lose the last of their mounted boxes and go straight to dismount. Minor nitpick, but again it can be important.


Mistake #6: electro-leap does NOT leap to nearest enemy model, its nearest model(ignoring the model that made the attack that causes e-leap) He isn't playing eNemo where models with immunity to electricity are ignored. So the e-leap from the attack on the pyre troll would have gone to the other Stormlance(from what I could see he was closer than the Fellcaller)

@GreyTemplar,
Thank you for that in depth summary, must say that it makes reconsider how alot of the different factions work now. If you don't mind could you take a look at this one, http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/menoth-vs-mercs-warmachine-battle-report-warmachine-league-season-2-ep-4 , and see if there are any major rules or tactic mistakes especially on the Menoth side. I really fell in love with the menoth tier 4 army and was planning on buying a similar army to it. But if it does not play like that typically that will make me reconsider buying and painting all of those knights. Thank you very much.

 Jaceevoke wrote:
@GreyTemplar,
Thank you for that in depth summary, must say that it makes reconsider how alot of the different factions work now. If you don't mind could you take a look at this one, http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/menoth-vs-mercs-warmachine-battle-report-warmachine-league-season-2-ep-4, and see if there are any major rules or tactic mistakes especially on the Menoth side. I really fell in love with the menoth tier 4 army and was planning on buying a similar army to it. But if it does not play like that typically that will make me reconsider buying and painting all of those knights. Thank you very much.

I can't see it, but if it's a Kreoss2 (Grand Exemplar Kreoss) tier 4 army with Knights Exemplar spam, then yes that's a list that works very well. Note that it is fairly different from most normal Menoth lists, though there are a few other infantry-heavy lists that it does gel well with -Testament of Menoth's "Reliquary Guard" theme force, and vindictus lists in general, for instance.

 Jaceevoke wrote:
@GreyTemplar,
Thank you for that in depth summary, must say that it makes reconsider how alot of the different factions work now. If you don't mind could you take a look at this one, http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/menoth-vs-mercs-warmachine-battle-report-warmachine-league-season-2-ep-4 , and see if there are any major rules or tactic mistakes especially on the Menoth side. I really fell in love with the menoth tier 4 army and was planning on buying a similar army to it. But if it does not play like that typically that will make me reconsider buying and painting all of those knights. Thank you very much.

Link is broken

But yes, if it is Kreoss2 tier list it works well. Very well.

But it is a very different list than typical menoth, and it requires you to buy many duplicates you won't use outside the specific list.

I'd hold off on building that list till you've gotten a handle on generic Menoth play.


But as far as that particular list goes, it does 1 thing and 1 thing only. Drown the enemy in weapon masters.

Its simple, brutal, the enemy knows exactly what you are trying to do, and unless they have something which counters the list there isn't a thing they can do to stop it.


It has some things Menoth lists typically don't have.

1) Its fast, in the sense that you get 2 extra inches of deployment and all your KE units have Advance Move. Which means your main melee units have an extra 7" on the enemy.

2) It doesn't have very many warjacks. The typical PoM list has 2-3 heavies and occasionally a couple lights. This has 1, Fire of Salvation. And he's really there because he has to be(although he is very good)

3) Everything in the list has teeth. Protectorate lists typically have between 25 and 30% of their points in support. meaning there are a bunch of models which don't cause damage themselves. This list is 100% combat.


Its all about delivering an overpowering Feat turn from Kreoss. A bunch of auto-hitting weapon masters with twice as many attacks as they normally have. And the enemy not being able to kill enough of them before you do deliver the feat turn.

Typical 50 point list will be

eKreoss
-Fire of Salvation

Max Bastions
4 units of Knights Exemplar
Max Exemplar Errants with UA
Errant Seneschal
Bastion Seneschal
KE Seneschal(free)
KE Seneschal
Vassal Mechanik

You have 38 small based weapon masters, 6 medium based weapon master(with reach), Kreoss, and Fire of Salvation.

That is a lot of bodies on the table for warmachine.

 Jaceevoke wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Don't touch MWG.

I can accept a few rules mistakes every now and then, but the number they have is just infuriating. They get very basic rules wrong(and seem to not bother to correct their mistakes)

They sometimes can't even remember what their own factions units are called.

Interesting I've been watching their WM/H S2 league trying to learn some tactics and strategies, I don't suppose you could provide some examples of their mistakes from those games? Don't want to end up learning the game incorrectly.

The most obvious one that grinds my own gears is that they use "auto-hit". There's no such thing, all 1s is a miss, regardless of your MAT and their DEF.

However, I find MWG to be good entertainment, but I wouldn't go there for rules and list building - I mean most of the people on their shows seem to be casual players after all. Tactics on the field, maybe. But it's entertainment. Kind of like a let's play. Depending on if the mechanical errors that the player makes will grind your gears or not, let's plays can be mighty fun

 Mahtamori wrote:

The most obvious one that grinds my own gears is that they use "auto-hit". There's no such thing, all 1s is a miss, regardless of your MAT and their DEF.

True. Except in the case of melee attacks on knocked down models.

There is such a thing as Auto-hit.

Models which are knocked down are auto-hit by melee attacks. But other than that there is no blanket general rule that you auto-hit(there are a couple specific rules which allow things to auto-hit, like Guided or the rules for Cataclysm)

Ah yeah, still learning the game beyond the starter rules, so that's my excuse Still, I see them use these auto-hits for anything regardless of target status as long as the to-hit is 2+ or better.

Trying to find one, but I'll have to give up soon. At least in the latest vids they don't do that for ranged attacks.

And Sustained attack.

 Mahtamori wrote:
Ah yeah, still learning the game beyond the starter rules, so that's my excuse Still, I see them use these auto-hits for anything regardless of target status as long as the to-hit is 2+ or better.

I haven't noticed that particular error, thats pretty major.

Than again, I did basically stop watching them regularly a couple years ago. I got tired of yelling at the screen, and youtube comments just get ignored.

Thank you for letting me know to stay away from MWG for Warmachine. I've watched a lot of their Infinity reports, but they flat out admitted they were just learning the rules, and you could see the players improve as the series went on. Still some questionable play decisions though. Whenever I watch them I always feel like they really don't deserve as much hype and sponsorship as they somehow have gotten....

Anyway, I can recommend Chain Attack as well. They also have a Twitch channel they stream to (that's where their youtube channel games come from since Twitch doesn't save past streams by default).

It is unfortunate that MWG is as bad as they are.

For all the effort they put into making nice batreps and doing them regularly you think they could at least try to become decent players.

Or better humans, the guy that appears in most of their bat reps makes me want to beat him about the head with a shovel for some reason.