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So GW owns the WW2 rights now because they said so :( Damn I hope they release a new edition of saving private ryan with space marines

ShumaGorath wrote:

infilTRAITOR wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:World war two is boring and played out.

I have a special level of hate reserved for people who say this.

Because it's still so cool after 80+ movies, 60+ videogames, 20+ television shows, and a wall of literature so tall it would blot out the sun. There's a reason "Modern" Warfare 2 is the biggest selling entertainment release in history. WW2 is old hat.

What really salt in the wound is most of the "80+ movies, 60+ videogames..." covers the same old ground over and over again while there's still a lot of the War which haven't been cover much at all and/or swept under the rug from an American perspective.

The mechanics are reported as owing nothing to Warhammer.

I wonder how much they'll owe to Flames of War, assuming this rumored product materializes.

ShumaGorath wrote:

infilTRAITOR wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:World war two is boring and played out.

I have a special level of hate reserved for people who say this.

Because it's still so cool after 80+ movies, 60+ videogames, 20+ television shows, and a wall of literature so tall it would blot out the sun. There's a reason "Modern" Warfare 2 is the biggest selling entertainment release in history. WW2 is old hat.

I'm sorry the only thing that is old there is the "America won the war single handedly without help from anyone" style of movie/tv/video games that are old(and untrue). There are great stories that are still waiting to be told. From the Canadian battle of Ortona, nicknamed "Little Stalingrad", to set backs and trials of the anzec's, to the jungle fighting in Burma, or even the tragedy of the Dieppe raid. Just because Americans running down Nazis is now boring doesn't mean the rest of it is.

Indeed. Or what about Finland doing the impossible and turning back a Soviet invasion? Haven't seen many games or Hollywood movies about that.

Also indeed, just look at the full list of WW2 participants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participants_in_World_War_II

And think how much media and literature is still there to be made. The US and UK are vastly over represented. The most amazing conflicts are arguably kursk and bagration and they are extremely uncommon compared to d-day and market garden.

@Aga: when the Finnish film industry can spend Millions to make & distribute their WW2 movie worldwide, I'm sure we'll all know.

And that's what these smaller, less-rich players are up against.

Apparently, history is actually written by the winners with deep pockets...

BrassScorpion wrote:I wonder how much they'll owe to Flames of War, assuming this rumored product materializes.

Funny you say that, as FoW itself was evolved from a 40K adaptation. The writer of it (Panzer something IRC) went on to work for Battlefront and FoW was based/derived on it.

Blackadder wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:I wonder how much they'll owe to Flames of War, assuming this rumored product materializes.

Funny you say that, as FoW itself was evolved from a 40K adaptation. The writer of it (Panzer something IRC) went on to work for Battlefront and FoW was based/derived on it.

Not really.

Phil wrote "Warhammer Panzer Battles", I think was the name. He was then hired by Battlefront Miniatures to write a rules set for a WWII miniatures game, so the company would have a rules set of their own to support their growing miniature line. A large percentage of BF employees are ex-GW. The similarities in the two companies have a lot more to do with mindset, philosophy, and ways of doing business. Much less so similarities in rules.

FOW and 40k/WFB share some things by design:

-Playable in a one on one situation in 2-3 hours with set army lists with points values.
-Supports tournament play
-Sells lots of miniatures, and the miniatures are the big seller for the companies, not the rules sets.
-Abstract rules that give a 'feel' for the story, but do not go into minute detail

Actually, the rules are more similar in design then that, though far from identical.

-Both share IGOUGO two player models
-Both use similar unit movement rules
-Both use linear scaled multiple D6 action resolution
-Both use a similar armor removal mechanic (AV v. AP)
-Both use a similar template/scatter system for artillery/ordinance
-Both use a point and slot based army construction system

While FoW is definitely it's own game, it is not hard to see the original inspiration.

Tresson wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

infilTRAITOR wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:World war two is boring and played out.

I have a special level of hate reserved for people who say this.

Because it's still so cool after 80+ movies, 60+ videogames, 20+ television shows, and a wall of literature so tall it would blot out the sun. There's a reason "Modern" Warfare 2 is the biggest selling entertainment release in history. WW2 is old hat.

I'm sorry the only thing that is old there is the "America won the war single handedly without help from anyone" style of movie/tv/video games that are old(and untrue). There are great stories that are still waiting to be told. From the Canadian battle of Ortona, nicknamed "Little Stalingrad", to set backs and trials of the anzec's, to the jungle fighting in Burma, or even the tragedy of the Dieppe raid. Just because Americans running down Nazis is now boring doesn't mean the rest of it is.

Same war, different set pieces. I'll definitely agree that the english speaking portion of the war is massively over represented, though I still find most areas of the conflict to be fairly played out by now. It's one giant story, with a lot of angles, but it's been covered to death in my experience. As for "stories never told", I can guarentee you that the south asian, sino japanese, and african conflicts are well written about. Though those stories certainly haven't gotten their time in the sun on screen yet.

As for the games workshop game, hopefully it'll be similar in scale to 40k (I can dream can't I?), then I wouldn't have to use the god awful GW IG tank designs.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Indeed. Or what about Finland doing the impossible and turning back a Soviet invasion? Haven't seen many games or Hollywood movies about that.

in fairness you sided with the axis..just saying (all love honestly it's a war and during war no side is right). Anyways shuma it disapoints me that you are taking that kind of stand on something like ww2 because it is our history, and a very important part of our history. When games based on history are produced the designers often take into account authenticity as a very serious thing. Because no matter which way you throw the dice people died horribly during that war. It is a historical genre and as such is approached at a different level then say 40k or fantasy or even idk monsterpoclypse or whatever it's called. Yes they may be minitures now on a table, but at one point they were based upon real people(hence the special characters in FOW). Hell even video games with modern warefare, and americas army are now incorporating current soldiers into their games as a matter of honoring those who they base these games off of. You don't have to like it, but you can show a little more respect or better phrasing next time when commenting on it.

You know, I would poop my pants if a company released a set of WWII rules for which 1/35 scale could be used!!

Imagine that?

Paired with excellent Tamiya and Dragon kits it would indeed be a pantsie-pooping event.

Hell even video games with modern warefare, and americas army are now incorporating current soldiers into their games as a matter of honoring those who they base these games off of. You don't have to like it, but you can show a little more respect or better phrasing next time when commenting on it.

And here I thought that reducing one of histories most bloody conflicts into a little tabletop figure game with plastic tanks that a couple of guys can "play" when they have a spare moment for fun was already incredibly mind bendingly disrespectful to those that died. Not to mention the profit aspect behind it as a product. So it's not ok for me to say that the ww2 genre is overdone, but it's ok for it to be exploited in toy form?

Obviously, it's not okay to overdo it.

But it's okay when they have karate chopping bayonet action!

Anything is fine as long as I don't have to see or hear the word "HERO" every few sentences.

Sorry BrookM. It's in the rulebook that Chad Kroger's "Hero" has to be playing, on repeat, during the shooting phase.

Oh, and the close combat phase requires Dropkick Murphy's "Barroom Hero". And I've even heard rumors that the Overwatch phase will require DKM's "Heroes From Our Past".

ShumaGorath wrote:And here I thought that reducing one of histories most bloody conflicts into a little tabletop figure game with plastic tanks that a couple of guys can "play" when they have a spare moment for fun was already incredibly mind bendingly disrespectful to those that died.

There is no glory great enough to be bestowed to venerate veterans of WW2 any more highly, and no ignominy black enough to besmirch the memory of what was lost and won. Trees now grow where soldiers stood and fell, the world's moved on from those sad days, and we should do likewise, not dwell on those whose bones have lain in the ground for over half a century by now. The living owe to the dead the responsibility of living their lives to the fullest, not bow down under the weight of painful memory.

To make war into a game is to rob it of its mystique and grandeur. It truly is a mockery, in both sense of the word. And none who play such a game can do so without being, in a sense, a sadder and a wiser man.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

To make war into a game is to rob it of its mystique and grandeur.

Their is by no means granduer in war nor any mystique. I myself have fought in war already as infantry, but I do see a level of respect for those that make it into a "game" because they are in a different style teaching the history of what has happened to the future. It is just a different way then putting it in books.

Funny, most of the historical gamers I play with served at one point in their lives.
A couple even retired from the military.
They are perfectly willing to game WWII.
Vietnam on the other hand is too close to home for a couple of them.
And I respect that.
I would not ask them to participate in gaming a conflict in which they had an experience.
But to say that a certain conflict is okay to game, while another is disrespectful is ...odd.

Wargaming has existed for a very long time now.
If it were so offensive, there would be a lot fewer participating.

WW2 Epic Scale!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kirasu wrote:So GW owns the WW2 rights now because they said so :( Damn I hope they release a new edition of saving private ryan with space marines

No that would be 'Saving Battle Brother Ryan's Gene Seed'

The Plastic Surgeon wrote:WW2 Epic Scale!

it's called micro armor.

This sounds like it could be really cool.

dam how much money does gw want? this would also mean less warhammer 40k updates and stuff :( not to mention it will eat up room in the whitedwarf mag

physcosamatic wrote:dam how much money does gw want? this would also mean less warhammer 40k updates and stuff :( not to mention it will eat up room in the whitedwarf mag

No it won't. It'll lie quietly in a dusty corner of the basement at GW HQ, only disturbed by fat old men with beards and a penchant for real ale. Much like their existing Warhammer Historical and Legends rulesets do.

There's no need for the 40k and WFB fanboix to get all panicky that any less than the 99.9% of all of GW's development resources they currently enjoy will be threatened.

physcosamatic wrote:dam how much money does gw want?

this would also mean less warhammer 40k updates and stuff :(

not to mention it will eat up room in the whitedwarf mag

All of it, of course...

And how is this a bad thing? New Codices only screw things up.

And if you don't read GW's advertisment rag, why would anybody care what's in WD?

Delephont wrote:You know, I would poop my pants if a company released a set of WWII rules for which 1/35 scale could be used!!

Imagine that?

There is one: Gear Krieg
or at least their rules support 1/35 scale.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

physcosamatic wrote:dam how much money does gw want?

this would also mean less warhammer 40k updates and stuff :(

not to mention it will eat up room in the whitedwarf mag

All of it, of course...

And how is this a bad thing? New Codices only screw things up.

And if you don't read GW's advertisment rag, why would anybody care what's in WD?

It is the constant churning of codexes and rules that screws things up. If the rules stopped changing and all existing factions were brought up to 5e standard, time would cease and the end of the universe would be upon us.

Or something.

true