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Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:So when its shields go down, the armor is like Carapace armor, which is a 5+ save.

Carapace get 4+. FLAK gets 5+.

Precisely. It appears the Space Marine lovers are getting the odd claim of stacking in the favor of the Marine, yet I sure see a lot of stacking for the Halo fanatics...

Plus, if that bit statblock isn't enough to make you realize this is absurd, think of this. A Space Marine is taught from the age of 11-12 that he has to be resilient, have insane faith, and be a downright badass. He is then given his implants after tons of training that already makes him a total awesome guy by human standards, and is THEN sent out onto the battlefield with decent armor and subpar weaponry (by marine standards). For the next 20-30 years, he gets personal combat training with tons of simulation work on the side. He is then given full power armor, the best weapons that can be mass-produced, and is then sent out to be a bigger badass. The average lifespan of this new Battle Brother, anywhere from 100-200 years more.

A Spartan is trained from birth, given modifications (though not to Astartes extent), is given good stuff when he can use it, and is then sent out to do SUPER SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE missions. He lives for about another 30 years before dieing on the battlefield.

See the difference? We're talking a century of training and repetitive organs, on top of new stuff/implants to make him even better than before. I don't see how a Spartan can fight this thing one on one, and seriously not cower in fear. I don't care how well he is indoctrinated. If I could lift a truck, I'd still piss myself at this guy.

Actually spartans weren't trained from birth. The spartan II program started when most of the future Spartans were 6. They would then be replaced with flash clones which would quickly die, which the UNSC would say were just natural causes.

I'd heard it was about 4 years old when it started, and it's close enough. Almost nothing can truly be trained from birth, yet the phrase is used often enough.

One of the only reasons why a fully equipped Spartan would beat a fully equipped Imperial Marine is because the Spartans actually use tactics.

They are used to going mano-a-mano (not literally) whereas Imperial Marines are trained to fight in squads.

This alone gives the Spartan an advantage.

The Spartans don't just run around with no cover or anything like that.

Fluff-wise, space marines use cover quite effectively. They are also taught to run solo missions when nessecary, and fluff-wise Space Wolves are the best at it. So it's not completely unheard of.

Vladsimpaler wrote:One of the only reasons why a fully equipped Spartan would beat a fully equipped Imperial Marine is because the Spartans actually use tactics.

They are used to going mano-a-mano (not literally) whereas Imperial Marines are trained to fight in squads.

This alone gives the Spartan an advantage.

The Spartans don't just run around with no cover or anything like that.

1. Marines use Tactics, too. I don't know where you people keep getting that idea from, but stop it.

2. Spartans were originally trained for SQUADS of Spartans. John-117 had to make do when he was left without a squad. Spartans aren't used to fighting alone any more or less than Imperial Marines.

@Platuanth:Yeah but a squad of spartans would consist of about 3 or 4 spartans to conduct special operations and commando missions.

Munch Munch! wrote:@Platuanth:Yeah but a squad of spartans would consist of about 3 or 4 spartans to conduct special operations and commando missions.

And?

Marines have a group that does that, they're called Scouts. And every single marine was once a scout, so I have a feeling full marines are just as capable of doing it(in fact, several chapters specialize in it, like Raven Guard and Blood Ravens).

ever heard of Kill teams?

Death watch?? thats what they do

read the grey knight book? was one Grey Knight pwns his way across a Deamon world

Ah damn it. I fold. You guys have convinced me that sm are better than spartans. I bow to your superior fluff knowledge.

'Bout time...

zane2131 wrote:yea but a space marine has one wound and yousaid yourself that it would take 3 bruit shots to kill the spartan so therefor the spartan has 3 wounds. so really your not helping your argument.

Are you kidding? I'm sorry, but you are terrible at arguing, and terrible at logic. Why would you compare "who would win" in game statistics when both characters are not in the same game system? A space marine is superior to a spartan in every single way, there is literally no way other than extreme luck that a SM would lose 1v1 to a spartan. A single SM could probably take on 10 spartans. A SM's basic weapon is superior to a brute shot, which kills a spartan in 3 hits. SMG or AR bullets could not harm Power Armor at all unless it struck an extremely lucky spot. The odds are so stacked against the spartan that I cannot take your "argument", if one could even call it that, seriously.

Huur-duur, Master Cheif is awesomes! He kills aliens and doesnt afraid of anything

ph34r wrote:

zane2131 wrote:yea but a space marine has one wound and yousaid yourself that it would take 3 bruit shots to kill the spartan so therefor the spartan has 3 wounds. so really your not helping your argument.

Are you kidding? I'm sorry, but you are terrible at arguing, and terrible at logic. Why would you compare "who would win" in game statistics when both characters are not in the same game system? A space marine is superior to a spartan in every single way, there is literally no way other than extreme luck that a SM would lose 1v1 to a spartan. A single SM could probably take on 10 spartans. A SM's basic weapon is superior to a brute shot, which kills a spartan in 3 hits. SMG or AR bullets could not harm Power Armor at all unless it struck an extremely lucky spot. The odds are so stacked against the spartan that I cannot take your "argument", if one could even call it that, seriously.

I'm gonna have to call you out on that one there, ph34r. There is no way in hell that an SM would take on 10 Spartans all at once. Not gonna happen. Sure, an SM could defeat one or even two at the same time easily enough. His prowess in close combat alone more than makes up for being outnumbered. I'm guessing an SM could go hand-to-hand with a 3-4 brutes and still come out on top. Without a chainsword. Can any Spartan really claim the same?

However, I still feel that you're simply disregarding what he's saying because you don't want to hear it. Against 3 spartans, I think a Space Marine would be lucky to win that one.

Anyway, would Spartan Laser = Lascannon or Plasma Gun?

alexwars1 wrote:Huur-duur, Master Cheif is awesomes! He kills aliens and doesnt afraid of anything

Hurr.

zane2131 wrote:
Space marine
-WS:4, BS:4, S:4, T:4, W:1, I:4, A:1, LD:8, SV:3+
Spartan
-WS:4, BS:5, S:5, T:4, W:1, I:6, A:2, LD:8, SV:2+

You give a higher balistic skill to a person who has been trianed since adulthood over
a person who's weapon is essentially part of his being since the age of 13/14?
Higher Strenght value for the Spartan!
A higher save and Initiative?

So, going by the stats:
A Spartan warrior from the Halo series would be faster, stronger, smarter and have better accuracy/aiming skill than a SM??

Why don't you just mix Eldar with Necron and be done with it?

zane2131 wrote:
Space marine
-WS:4, BS:4, S:4, T:4, W:1, I:4, A:1, LD:8, SV:3+
Spartan
-WS:4, BS:4, S:4, T:4, W:1, I:4, A:1, LD:8, SV:4+ (5+ invo)

Fixed that for ya.

What kinda sick joke is this...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

zane2131 wrote:
Space marine
-WS:4, BS:4, S:4, T:4, W:1, I:4, A:1, LD:8, SV:3+
Spartan
-WS:4, BS:4, S:4, T:4, W:1, I:4, A:1, LD:8, SV:4+ (5+ invo)

Fixed that for ya.

The leadership on a spartan would be nine, not eight

Battle Rifle: Gas Powered Assault Rifle...

The spartan would shoot that, the SM would laugh...

Space marine
-WS:4, BS:4, S:4, T:4, W:1, I:4, A:1, LD:8, SV:3+
Spartan
-WS:4, BS:4, S:4, T:4, W:1, I:4, A:1, LD:8, SV:4+ (5+ invo)


Yep, this I can agree with.
Even being on par with a SM would be feasible, especially with the invulnerable save (due to the magic nuke stopping armour)
to negate the SM straight up SV3+

But guuuuuys, its Master Chief!! He has luck. Looking at the state of the imperium the smurfs don't have much of that

If we're using MasterChief as the Spartan example then us 40K peeps can use a Chapter Master as our avatar (",)

In which case, MasterChief would become just another notch on the Chapter Masters acolades..
It would be a titanic one on one battle, untill the CM closes the gap and then kicks the crap out of the Chief..
That's hundreds of years worth of fighting prowess against a couple of decades of loneliness..

But it's standard mjolnir Spartan against standard Astartes SM or am I wrong??

The SMs are good on paper but their real battlefield performance does not live up to the hype.

Kilkrazy wrote:The SMs are good on paper but their real battlefield performance does not live up to the hype.

What hype??

The fluff hype or the hype that players have built up during this thread??

You know, I think the Spartan might have a chance if they let him use the starting pistol from Halo 1.

That thing was buuuuuullllllll-pucky.

Seriously, in what military do you fire your assault rifle only at enemies 30 feet away and unholster your pistol when you see one at 100 yards?

Kilkrazy wrote:The SMs are good on paper but their real battlefield performance does not live up to the hype.

In Descent of angles it talks a lot of space marine prowess. A Marine (Standard tac marine at the time), who for spoiler purposes shall not be named, holds down a position on his own, more or less (His comrades are too wounded to help much), while wounded himself against a whole horde of orcs, whom I would compare to brutes. (In game brutes tended to be bad shots & prefer to charge into melee whenever they could) how does that not live up to the hype? Read about the battle for maccrage, especially the 1st company. How about the deathwing story? I fail to see how SM's don't live up to their hype. I mean in game play they don't but that's because it would significantly unbalance the game.

Hehe, people seem to forget that this is SM vs Spartan

Not Master Chief Vs. SM

Keep it to generic Spartans and Generic SMs.....

Please read on page 1 the area of the TRUE space marine profile, not this sick thing we call a "true marine" in the 40k ruleset. D:

Why do halo players believe their idol is immortal? How do they not perceive something else killing him easily...

I want my BS 5 Cadians now!
If you want to have MC, the marines get MC too. The guy who upper-cutted an Avatar

EDIT: Oh-no! I just bumped this POS!