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Great discussion on why people hate comp. Maybe start another thread somewhere else on it? We really don't need to de-rail another thread where someone is trying to give out information on their event.

Back on Topic:

Jay, I cross posted the event over to the Showcase Forums. I'd also like to send you up some loot from my store for the tournament. Send me your mailing address to MikenJudyC@aol.com and I'll get a box out to you.

mikhaila wrote:Great discussion on why people hate comp. Maybe start another thread somewhere else on it?

Indeed. Save the comp discussion for a comp discussion thread. Let's leave this thread for discussing the event

Mike you gonna make it up for this?

Sadly, chances are low. We have a WFB GT the next weekend at the bunker, and then Black Friday the next weekend, and the start of 100 hour weeks. Hoping to finish tournament set up early though, and maybe drive up if there is a spot open for something still, or maybe just to hang out and drink beer.

I need those twins in my picture to grow up and run the stores for me, so I can game. It's sad to have about 6 painted armies for each system and not make it out much. But the Grot Tanks will make it to Mechanicon for the Friday night bash. Thank Gork for GT's 15 minutes from my house.

Rochester is 45 minutes from Buffalo, tops! This looks like a good time!

Just a update: we have sold 84 tickets for the 40k event.

Okay we have sold 85 tickets to date for the 40k event. We are going to open some more spots. We have additional 5 tickets that are available.

Prizes keep growing as each ticket is sold!!

This is good tournament to get your golden ticket. I counted roughly that we have 10 (maybe more) golden (Vegas invite) winners coming. So technically if you got get 10 and 11 spot overall and still get a golden ticket.

85 players? Nice! Sounds like a good tournament.

I have to say this comp system looks terrible!

After reading over it, I get the impression that the ideal army for this event is one created by drawing units and wargear from a hat.

The comp system is a huge negative for this tournament IMO.

Dracos wrote:I have to say this comp system looks terrible!

After reading over it, I get the impression that the ideal army for this event is one created by drawing units and wargear from a hat.

The comp system is a huge negative for this tournament IMO.

Shh!!! :p

wait till the event is over... then offer your suggestions for improvement...

We've already been yelled at once for criticizing comp....

@ frgsinwntr and Dracos

I understand if our event is not for you. I also understand out of the 87 people signed up for our 40k event not all agree with using comp for event, but we run a top-notch event so they mark it on their calendars each year. We are hoping for a 100 people this year. How many other events have that many people for 40K? The couple events I think of are War Games Con, AdeptiCon, Nova Open and Warmasters (Canada). Some people are coming because of comp. Some are coming because it is a hell of a tournament. See old friends, play some good games and hopefully win some swag.

We have running a comp event for 5 years. After each year we look at the system and decide what we are going to do for next year. So frgsinwntr and Dracos if we remove comp for next year’s event are going to buy a ticket? We look at our event year after year and try to make it better, but we base it on what people want. Already for next year I already plan on going to three day event and adding seminars.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that comp is in and of itself a terrible idea.

However, the way you describe your system, and the lists you present seem very strange to me. As I said before, the "top comp" lists just seem to be random units with random equipment. I understand wanting to prevent spam, but your comp system wants to force the other extreme, which I find equally distasteful.

The event would be far more interesting with a toned down comp system I think. Perhaps a scale going from your "middle of the road lists" to the "basically zero" lists would be better from my point of view.

I have no doubt your event is run in every way top notch, and if I were in the area I would likely still play in it. I haven't done any traveling for 40k events yet, so perhaps in the coming year I will try to make it to bigger events. When evaluating the events I would have to travel to attend, I think the comp system would be influential, which is why I said it was a (huge, possibly hyperbole) negative.

In any event, toning down the comp system I think would make the event more attractive. Rewarding fluffy non-spammy armies is a good thing in my opinion, but punishing gunline armies seems like a strange line to draw.

A comp system that might actually benefit the weak armies without telling everyone what to bring:

Tier system: Bonus based on a 100 battle point scale.

Tier 1: Wolves, BA, IG, Orks: straight battle points

Tier 2: SM, CSM, Tyranids, BT, Eldar, DE, Daemons: +5 Battle points

Tier 3: Tau, Sisters, Dark Angels: +15 Battle Points

Tier 4: Necrons, Daemon Hunters: +25 Battle Points

Comp stinks, but hey, this at least actually benefits the weak armies and everyone still gets to bring what they want to bring.

Would it work? I don't know, but it seems to level the playing field in a relatively fair way. No one wants to be told what to bring, or to have to buy, assemble and paint new models. So this gets around that.

Plus, it gives a pretty damn big bonus to the weak armies. As a Cron or DH player you start out with a massacre and change. That is a huge bump.

As for this event, hell, if they have 85 people coming, they are doing something right. I am stoked to see tournaments continuing to grow around the country.

The problem with the comp system is multi-fold.

First is that best general is a combination of battle plus comp. However, the comp score is not really based on how powerful the lists are.

Second is that the judging is biased towards Eldar. Seriously, if you want a better score with a decent army, pick Eldar. (The 'good comp' Eldar example would probably trounce all the other 'good comp' examples)

The third is that it comes off as judgemental. All the 'this army wouldn't be very fun to play against'. Some people like playing with and against armies like that.

The last issue is that, as others have noticed, is that it is front-loaded. The middle level of comp is most other tournament people's soft list.

How is comp geared towards the eldar, skyth?

Do you have a master list of all armies and how they have been scored to back this up? If this is true then how come in the pre-judged emails Tau and DamonHunters have the top two highest scores?

I give these guys props for what there doing, I couldn't imagine the headache from pre-judging comp lists for 80+ people. Not just once but twice per list. Even if 40 people submitted lists, I'm sure the organizers could think of better things to do with there event time. I like the fact that just about every award has comp tied to it.

I always play to the tourney, if they want heavy comp or Ard Boyz style bring it on!

I can't wait to go this and in a couple of minutes will be painting model's in my car at lunch break to get ready for this event!

@Rabidduck

I think he's referring to the fact that Eldar are a codex designed for using disparate units to form a greater whole. The eldar units are generally extremely specialized meaning that they are actually on the way happy end of comp since it seems like (based on the examples in the packet) that Eldar should score very high because they excell at taking multiple different units. Take a step back and take a breath and think things fully thru before you fly off

Always has been there. I am not saying that Eldar will get the highest comp scores of the tournament, but that for a given power level, you have a comp advantage for playing Eldar there. I was referring to the example armies also.

I gave props before for pre-judging comp, though there is the caveat that what you get in pre-judging may not match what you get at the tourney.

@Hulk

Hey, he is a rabbid duck! He is living up to his name!

But seriously, I hope you guys have a great time at this tournament. Sounds like fun.

Less than 30 Days to the Event!

With less 30 months to go to the 2010 DaBoyz GT. Tickets are going fast. We have opened up spots for the 40k event and now have enough room for 100 people. In fact we how sold 95 tickets for the 40k event already! We also do have some tickets left for 40K Apocalypse, Warhammer Fantasy, or the WarMachine/ Hordes events, but players planning to participate should get their tickets before the events are sold out.

Here is the critical information again:

DaBoyz GT November 12th – 14th , 2010


DaBoyz GT is featuring a two-day (13th-14th), 100 player Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament, a one day 30 player Warhammer Fantasy Independent Tournament, a Large Apocalypse event, and a 32 player Warmachine/Hordes event. Since both of the Warhammer tournaments are Independent Circuit Qualifying events, the respective winners will be extended invitations by Games Workshop to attend the National Tournament in 2011, which will be held in Las Vegas, Nevada.

This is the fifth year we have run this tournament. This year’s event will be held on the campus of the University of Rochester. Awesome terrain, prizes, and opponents; awards include hand painted trophies. So, bring your best 40k, Warhammer Fantasy, Apocalypse and Warmachine/Hordes game to compete at the DaBoyz independent Grand Tournament!

More information can found at the following website:
http://daboyzgt.wordpress.com/da-boyz-gt/

Update! As of today DaBoyz GT 2010 is sold out!!! ( Nice job Jay! )

Now on to more important business, trolling ... ! ( You see I made a bet with my fellow gamers I would do this and I don't like to disappoint! )

...


Comp at this years event will be scored with regards to the army's strength on the table as well as other factors that the panel of judges will weigh. The judges are attempting to use it as a mitigating factor to help balance weaker armies against more powerful tournament friendly list. The people judging comp have played in many tournaments and GT throughout the years and are no stranger to what makes a good list good. They know their game trust me on this. Yes you can debate the merits of comp and whether or not you like it, we all have heard it before and quite frankly I am bored with it. The fact that remains is that comp will have some bearing on your final score in this event, like it or not. The bottom line is that Jay is running a great tournament with a boatload of prizes support ( $3000 or there abouts and counting ) as well as Golden tickets to Vegas. Those who have elected to go will be pleasantly pleased with their decision to attend and those who said "comp just ain't for me", well have fun with that decision!

A Moderator wrote:Now, now. No trolling, please!

Well, I'm assuming that MajorSOB and skyth know each other and that this is all in jest .

Congrats on selling out the event! Does that mean you guys hit 100?

That seriously didn't sound like jest. That sounded like a pretty serious haymaker.

@MajorSOB

To be honest given the "examples" of the different armies don't show judgement based on tabletop performance since they're mostly pretty bad lists. It looks like your list is judged on not having repeats of units/weapons/or wargear. So because of that rather obvious fact I have trouble believing the rest of your diatribe. And someone like you posting something like this can easily drive people away from an event. Just sayin your not helping the cause of DaBoyz GT or comp events in general.

MajorSoB wrote:Comp at this years event will be scored with regards to the army's strength on the table as well as other factors that the panel of judges will weigh. The judges are attempting to use it as a mitigating factor to help balance weaker armies against more powerful tournament friendly list.

People are concerned about the "other factors". It looks like you get a low comp score based on special characters and taking duplicate units and it has nothing to do with the relative strength of the army.

I heard that there are some tough space wolf armies out there that are getting pretty good comp scores because they are able to avoid using special characters and not to many duplicates.

On the other hand if you are an Eldar player and you take Eldrad you take a large comp hit. You almost need Eldrad these days to compete with the newer codexes because the units in the 4th edition Eldar codex are way over priced these days for what they can do.

Of course we get to see what armies got what comp scores after the tournament and that should be entertaining.

@ Hulk

Last I checked you weren't going right? You don't like comp and aligned yourself with those seeking to tear down and poke holes in the way that the event was being run since it chose to include comp scoring. Well the 100 people that bought tickets felt differently, to each his own I guess.

Take this away from the thread, this event is a good one, there are a ton of prizes ( a good many of them raffled off giving even the most casual gamers chances at great prizes just for attending!), great tables, a great venue, and some of the best players who play the game. Its 100 players, tell me when the last time you were at a 100 player event barring Adepticon?

The reason examples were given was to try and show what was meant by an average list to a very comp friendly list, in opposition to a hard optimized list. Jay did this for transparency, to help show exactly what was being looked for in regards to comp rather than giving some nebulous guidelines. Couple this with the option to prejudge lists that was given and comp should be nothing to fear. I challenge anyone who has played this game for more than a few months to look me in the eye and tell me they don't honestly know the difference between a list that will comp well and a list that will comp poorly. If you had a doubt you could have had your list prejudged. Jay even offered to do this several times for each person seeking help.

Bottom line is the event is well attended each year, Jay does an exceptional job making it fun and giving out some of the best prizes that you will see anywhere. Its to Jay's credit and no small wonder than the event sold out. If you listen to the players that attended in the past I am sure they can attest to my claim that this is an event worth attending regardless of whether I am actively participating in running it or not.

Again, great job Jay!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Blackmoor

Yep you quoted me right, think what you would like, its all explained in the information packet that Jay posted.

OK, let's see so Eldar take a comp hit when they play Eldred and you can't possibly without him right, that's what you are saying? Well maybe you ought to contact Skyth and talk to him because he thinks that the comp system favors Eldar not penalizes them...

I am not 100% certain but I thought you were attending right? Trust me you will have fun its a well run tournament with a great bunch of guys. Give it a chance, see if I am correct. Believe me there is a reason Jay attracted 100 players to this event and it has nothing to do with his charismatic personality...(right Jay!)

I should say that my type of eldar (foot eldar) needs Eldrad. Of course if you play mech eldar or jetbike seer council you do not need him.

Yes, I will be at the tournament. I am going mostly to hang out with a lot of friends, and play 5 good games of 40k, comp or no comp.

I am going to build my list the way that I want to and forget about my comp score. I hate taking an army I gimped and I don’t like because I was working with the comp score. I also hate to lose to other people that ignore the comp score and are playing comp-unfriendly armies and I only lost because I was playing with less of an army that I should have taken.

RiTides wrote:Well, I'm assuming that MajorSOB and skyth know each other and that this is all in jest .

Yes and no. Doug and ilk are one of the biggest reasons I don't play 40k any more.

MajorSoB wrote:@ Hulk

Last I checked you weren't going right? You don't like comp and aligned yourself with those seeking to tear down and poke holes in the way that the event was being run since it chose to include comp scoring. Well the 100 people that bought tickets felt differently, to each his own I guess.

Take this away from the thread, this event is a good one, there are a ton of prizes ( a good many of them raffled off giving even the most casual gamers chances at great prizes just for attending!), great tables, a great venue, and some of the best players who play the game. Its 100 players, tell me when the last time you were at a 100 player event barring Adepticon?

The reason examples were given was to try and show what was meant by an average list to a very comp friendly list, in opposition to a hard optimized list. Jay did this for transparency, to help show exactly what was being looked for in regards to comp rather than giving some nebulous guidelines. Couple this with the option to prejudge lists that was given and comp should be nothing to fear. I challenge anyone who has played this game for more than a few months to look me in the eye and tell me they don't honestly know the difference between a list that will comp well and a list that will comp poorly. If you had a doubt you could have had your list prejudged. Jay even offered to do this several times for each person seeking help.

Bottom line is the event is well attended each year, Jay does an exceptional job making it fun and giving out some of the best prizes that you will see anywhere. Its to Jay's credit and no small wonder than the event sold out. If you listen to the players that attended in the past I am sure they can attest to my claim that this is an event worth attending regardless of whether I am actively participating in running it or not.

Again, great job Jay!

The Orange is what I have an issue with. Chill dude.

Good Luck with the event : ) I won't be going. Comp+cost of travel + distance + the missions aren't something I can do.

Mad Props to Jay for putting together a Big event!

@MajorSOB

Nope, I'm not going. I live in california and the sheer cost of attending the event when added in with comp scores has kept me from even attempting to attend. I greatly dislike your attitude toward people who have a different perspective than you. I've already said earlier in this thread that any event that grows the hobby is a good one and kudos to Jay for putting it on. But people like you make me not want to attend this event ever if I had the chance.

I play in a GT in February every year that is around 66% soft scores. But they are pretty clear on their guidelines of where you get your points.

DaBoyz GT isn't clear except for the don't take doubles. What the hell is a poor Daemon player suppose to do? Basically not take anti-tank because we'd have a whopping 4 units in the army with Bolts? Meanwhile SW's, BA's, Marines of all types, Orks and other can max comp because they have deeper codexes.

Let's not forget that comp is completely subjective and it's definitely regional. So no, i can't off the top of my head tell you an army that I could build that would play well that would comp well. Because I don't live in your area and know you guys unspoken guidelines. Honestly people like how your presenting yourself hurt the hobby. You further the divide instead of merging it. Chill out and relax. Realize people can disagree without attacking people which is what I've done about this GT this thread. I've pointed out my issues and was done till you blatantly attacked people for thinking different than you do and stating their opinion. Good luck dude.

Oh, and I was at an 88 (8 people dropped last minute) event for 40k in August. The Nova Open. Something that was so good I flew across the country to support. I did miss out on the Grand Waagh which had almost a hundred as well. Didn't attend Bolscon which had over a hundred (though because of comp they won't next year unless they change it). Yes the event has a large number of attendees and good for you guys but your not the only one and you've had 5 years to build it. Bolscon and Nova Open have only had a year or two and their going to push well past you guys next year. Just something to consider before spouting off numbers.

@MajorSOB

Damn man, chill out. Why are you being so combative? I have been lucky enough to play against Jay and Da Boyz at Adepticon and they are super cool dudes. No one is saying they aren't.

People are simply voicing their opinions about an aspect of tournaments they may support or oppose. No reason to take it personally as it isn't intended that way.

Just take it as constructive criticism, as that is all it is. No reason to get uber macho about it.

The tournament looks like it is going to be well attended, which is great! Congratz on the good turnout and I hope all of you have a good time.