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Art has no place on the battlefield!

Seem to recall John Ruskin stating exactly the opposite

The "art" of war ...

Manchu wrote:

Phototoxin wrote:I'm planning to bandwagon SoB if/when they ever arrive...

You and me both, buddy . . . Wait . . . I already play them . . .

What I mean is that I know I will bandwagon them. I dont care if they have a crappy codex or are not powerful. Bandwagoning does annoy me when people collect stuff for its power rather than for the minis/fluff et cetera.

Isn't bandwaggoning about doing something only because everyone else is doing it? I love harry potter

Pael wrote:Isn't bandwaggoning about doing something only because everyone else is doing it? I love harry potter

Well yea. So powergaming isnt true bandwagoning imo becuase you have a reason beyond "Everyone else is doing it"

Doing/Getting something popular just for the sake that its popular is what I think true bandwagoning is. thats how as you said books like Harry Potter take the world by storm.

People are free to spend their money how they like. There are lots of reasons to buy into a newly released army. You may already collect them, or you may be interested in this particular release. But there's also a sizable number of people who regularly buy into the latest releases because they are WAAC players or because they are excitable noobs who get tempted by every next shiny thing that comes along. Both crowds like this typify those that usually don't paint their miniatures and are unsure of their codex because they are swapping and changing regularly and don't settle on an army or ruleset.

Who cares?

GW's pathetic inability to produced balanced Codices is not the fault of the players.


It only gets obnoxious when the person jumps on *every* bandwagon without having any of the minis prior, and as a result, never finishes an army.

I think the bandwagon term itself has a negative connotation. There's a sometimes expressed ideal in our hobby that people should pick an army based on the fluff, models and playstyle. Jumping on the Bandwagon implies that the person is choosing an army because it's new and powerful, that they're being carried along by the metagame wave, and that they're not choosing the army for the "right" or "pure" reasons.

There seems to be more discussion of bandwagon lately because of the relatively recent releases of 2 variant marine codices in the past year following on the new SM book in 08. It's much easier for marine players to switch their armies around than it is to jump around amongst the xeno codices, so we've seen an upsurge of marine armies going UM Blue->Salamander Green->SW Grey->Blood Red. Despite all the people posting in this thread that they have no problem with others jumping on the bandwagon, there does seem to be quite a bit of derision in particular for these codex hoppers who can't commit to an army. Flavor of the month if you will. Maybe that's what we're really talking about here: not people taking up a new army, but rather people taking up a new codex for their old army.

I actually think bandwagoning is pretty hilarious.

95% of the time its less of an incredibly strong list, and is an incredibly strong list in the hands of a competent general.

I saw players in 7th edition spend tons of money on daemons for a tourny cause they were the "overpowered army" and then get stomped because they werent any good with them. They play them a few more times thinking that it was just a bad game and get stomped some more, and someone ends up with 500 dollars in models for 150 bucks because they sell them all to try the next uber thing, blaming the army for performing badly.

This trend continues until they give up. Never taking the time to get good with the army, and instead jump from powerlist to powerlist but rarely winning because they dont know how to play it...

It's not even an issue. People buy whatever they like. Iphones, almost useless as a phone, is another example. Bandwagon or just a kid with a new toy? Who cares if it's absolute garbage to phone people with just as long as I have an app that calculates windage for a 7.62 NATO standard round fired from an SA80!

People can buy what they want and is up to them how they use them. Does it matter if you follow others? Not one jot! Just so long as the other person isn't going to jump off a bridge it's OK.

The worst part about it to me is the continual jumpers never get good with any army and that gets annoying to play against.

Even with prizes/money on the line I would rather have a good game than an easy win.

kirsanth wrote:The worst part about it to me is the continual jumpers never get good with any army and that gets annoying to play against.

Even with prizes/money on the line I would rather have a good game than an easy win.

Exactly, they see someone do well with an army, buy it all, get creamed a few times, get pissed, quit the game OR sell the army for a loss and repeat.

Guy I know has done this 3-4 times already.

I'm not sure even buying a new army because you think it will win is really part of "jumping on the bandwagon." Usually the term is used to describe people that make a choice solely because they want to be associated with the majority.

So, when you show up to a Super Bowl party and root for the team everybody else is, that's bandwagoning. If you start rooting for a hot team because you think they'll win, that's bandwagonning. If you simply predict the winner, that's just using sense.

So, building a SW army because you think it gives you the greatest chance of winning isn't really about joining a bandwagon. If you haven't really thought it out and are simply listening to others, than maybe, but hardly anybody chooses a 40k army so that they can be a part of the majority. Except some of the guys at B&C.

Yup. People switch to the hot armies because hot armies suit their "playstyle". It's understandable. I like the winning playstyle too.

I am refering mostly to people who get a new army because OTHER people think it is stronger/better/cheesier/OTT--not the people who read the rules, analyse their styles, and choose on their own.

Sure, but it seems bizarre that someone would get a whole new army just because other people were getting it and they themselves hadn't read the rules, and determined everyone else was onto something.

Which is exactly what I was trying to get across.

People like that do exist and a couple of them play in my area.



editing to add:
Most of them know the 40k rules--I refer to new codex changes being jumped on because the internet/tourney players/random guy said it is stronger/better/cheesier/OTT

I'm not sure that's really a bandwagon effect than. That's just listening to random people.

If I know nothing about luxury watches (and I don't) and I ask a colleague that doesn't know me personally what brand I should get and then follow his recommendation, I think I'm just listening to dubious expertise.

To really join the bandwagon, you have to do the same thing. If "the crowd" is saying that, say, Space Wolves are the strongest army and a person parrots that to others... welcome to the bandwagon. If everybody is starting space wolves and a person starts them to simply because everybody else is, that's bandwagon.

If everybody is saying SW are the best, and some people are starting them, and a person starts them because he now thinks they're the best... I dont' think that's joining the bandwagon. it's making a decision for questionable reasons, but that's stuff we do all the time.

It doesn't really take everyone, it takes a crowd--which is what I was trying to imply, badly it seems. I did not mean to imply they heard/read one guy saying "OMG!" and changed.

Regardless, there is nothing wrong with it intrinsicly, but the result tends to lead to people playing armies they have not gotten used to, repeatedly.

As long as I dont see the same player jump from new release to new release without ever painting his armies and playing just the latest in meta cheese. Its cool.

Fortunately for me, I rest comfortably in already having 1500pt of most armies in existence so, its not really bandwagoning for me! But if they play the army paint it. Its just cheese playing cheese.

Its like the poor sods in Magic that dump oodles of money to have the bestest of the best in cards. I just roll my eyes and keep my Thallids truckin on!

terribletrygon wrote:Why does every bandwagon or Blood Angel thread involve a nipple armour argument?

Maybe this isn't the most opportune time to bring it up, but BA have had armor nipples at least since Index Astartes.

Well, what people are forgetting is that what bandwagoning is is to play an army just because everyone else does. I would personally find that very strange.

One thing I dislike about it is that it makes playing the game less interesting because you're suddenly playing the same army and lists a lot of the time. I also don't enjoy playing against people who have the same army as me like when the new SW codex came out and all of the sudden every other guy I played was using it.

I hate doing it. I also do it all the time. The real question here, for me anyway, is "is it okay to spend less money to get better figures at the cost of pride?". Sometimes, yes :(

Manchu wrote:As I sit here painting Skaven, I wonder what Dakka thinks about starting new armies (whatever amount of "starting" it entails) as soon as or soon after they come out.

Another form of bandwagoning, I guess, is starting a new army because someone has won with a certain list.

My opinion? As of right now, I plan on bandwagoning the gak out of some Dark Eldar. But no particular list from the internet has ever motivated me.

Sometimes jumping the latest bandwagon has its reason besides "wanting something different"

-With the rule creep and such , having the latest army (usually) mean you wont be at a disadvantage for awhile.

-GW miniatures are over all improving , this will no doubt tempt players to hop on the wagon because the minis look so good desu!

It's true that they improve. But according to incomprehensible logic, if any at all. With the latest update having been for Chaos Daemons, I doubt that Chaos Space Marines will get the attention they deserve any time soon. No need to mention Sisters of Battle. The advent of many new DE models will of course assuage my doubts, however. Whenever they arrive . . .

Yes, it's actually necessary, IMHO, so we can find out what works and what doesn't.

People need to get over themselves, you're not a "better" player if you don't bandwagon.