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I'd like to see the return of a Dreadnaught HQ, just something different.

I would like to use my Leman Russ Exterminator again.

IMO, bikes, jump packs, and all the new stuff is not very Space Wolfy...

When I think Space Wolves..., it's all about the chainsword and bolt pistol. Maybe a unique way to get into CC then the other chapters....maybe fleet, dunno.

Bran Dawri wrote:
Mostly, I want Thunderwolf Cavalry and Canis to just disappear. As in, they don't exist and never did.

I also want them to go back to Vikings in Space instead of werewolves in space and a little less of the Wolfy MacWolf with his Wolf that, and Wolf that and Wolf the other.

Other than that, and some form of anti-air, I like my Wolves the way they are.

Have to admit I love the thunderwolf cavalry models. To each his own I guess as there are definitely plenty of people who can't stand them. Of course the best thing of the army list is you are required to take any wolves and can still take the standard fast attack kit for space marines instead.

Skriker

I'd start playing SWs just for 13th company if it was included.

Chongara wrote:
All models and options in the book points costed fairly, with none being over costed for what they actually do. Core troops & HQ having costs that are pushed slightly more aggressively.

Each model having a clearly defined niche, with meaningful and interesting differences with other models of similar cost and with other models in the same FOC slot.

All codex entries and special rules clearly written and free of any language that could be prone to vague interpretations.

Yeah this needs an exalt, but sadly is not likely to happen since none of these things have appeared in any of the other updated 6th edition codecies yet and I don't expect GW to start with them now. :(

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

deepstriker wrote:
Anti air flakk for long fangs missile launchers or storm talons. The lack of anti air seems to force players at my side to buy a quad cannon and aegis defense line. Or some way to kill flyers.

Well that is because GW is apparenlty incapable of adding to every codex at the start of the 6th edition that Unit X gets access to flakk missiles or Unit Y now has skyfire. It would have been that simple and given everyone more than an ADL as an anti-air option, but that would make too much sense. I have a mortis dread with 2 twin-linked AC arms for anti-air. Lots of dice with rerolls is always a good thing. Not quite as potent as the mortis contemptor I have for my Dark Angels, but it works in a pinch.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Makumba wrote:
Why do people think that flakk on Long fangs would be good. Out of all the new meq books , not a single army uses them .

I have them in all of my CSM armies. The only reason my DAs don't have them is because I have no devastators and the only tactical squad I have is the one from DV with the plasma cannon so rely on my mortis contemptor instead. Flakk missiles are viable anti-air options. People complain about the price, but that price is pretty consistent across the board. They are only a waste of points if your opponent has no flyers on the table. Otherwise you will most likely get to use them...

Skriker

The TWC struck me as the replacement for the Wulfen, a fast, smash face unit tougher and stronger than regular Space Wolves but not with many other abilities.

A codex with both Wulfen and TWC would get kinda crowded in the FOC area without a real difference between options. More so with the Fenresian Wolves there as well. GW might be advised to make Mark of the Wulfen slightly more available (ie cheap, multiple models per unit) and produce a conversion kit if they want to leverage the Wulfen idea.

I'd prefer Wulfen to TWC to be honest, but with all the hassles of getting them out I can't see GW just dropping them now.

Realistically were going to see a new unit providing a measure of air dominance, be it a flyer or ground based option. I think if the Storm Raven or Storm Talon were coming our way we'd have it now. So what, without some strange wolf-like Monstrous Creature will be our AA?

Previously unknown variant of Space Marine Tank? I don't like either of the ones in the Space Marine codex, and as cool as the Whirlwind Hyperion is, I just don't see it making the jump.

Alternate Dreadnaughts? FW has had AA Dreadnaughts for a while now and SW are known for kick ass Dreadnaughts, but again, I doubt a direct jump for FW or a conversion of an existing kit.

Long Fangs with Flakk - I am sure they will be there, but they will not be cost effective (check the costs on Devastators) and again no new kit required.

A flyer seems the best bet, since its almost garunteed that one is coming. I don't see anything existing coming across, so probably something new and designed as a close in dogfighter. Likely a ground attack variant as well. But other than generalities, I have no real idea. A special custom Storm Talon? Something akin to the Dark Angels flyers? I don't think so. I expect unique with a wolfy name.

Something else? Maybe fire support Drop Pods wih AA options or Rune Priest storm powers that work really well on flyers (after all, turning a 24 inch radius into a raging, blinding snowstorm should do something to flyer)? Could we see a dakka tank or dakka dread that puts out so many twin linked shots that even without Skyfire it poses a threat to flyers? Flakk updates for Land Speeders?

I'm really not sure here, but I beleive whatever happens the primary AA will come in a new kit we haven't seen before.

Honestly, I'm pretty happy with the book as it is. I'd like to see Blood Claws get a bit of a buff (there's not much reason to take them over Grey Hunters, really), but that's about it.

Oh, and include a bit in the FAQ that lets me run my four TWC Wolf Lords together instead of with a squad of Fenries because of a stupid technicality.

 Locclo wrote:
Honestly, I'm pretty happy with the book as it is. I'd like to see Blood Claws get a bit of a buff (there's not much reason to take them over Grey Hunters, really), but that's about it.

Oh, and include a bit in the FAQ that lets me run my four TWC Wolf Lords together instead of with a squad of Fenries because of a stupid technicality.

As far as I know ICs can join with ICs, I do it all the time with my group.

 Anpu42 wrote:

deepstriker wrote:
Anti air flakk for long fangs missile launchers or storm talons. The lack of anti air seems to force players at my side to buy a quad cannon and aegis defense line. Or some way to kill flyers.

Bad ass wolf flyers are needed. I be surprised if they made flying TWCs. Wahahaha.

Well a freind of mine keeps joking that Dragon Riders of Burk take place on Fenris

Considering they do have drakes on Fenris, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they did something along those lines to sell models (man would it be cheesy though).

All I want are models I do not have to finance to buy.....

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Locclo wrote:
Honestly, I'm pretty happy with the book as it is. I'd like to see Blood Claws get a bit of a buff (there's not much reason to take them over Grey Hunters, really), but that's about it.

Oh, and include a bit in the FAQ that lets me run my four TWC Wolf Lords together instead of with a squad of Fenries because of a stupid technicality.

As far as I know ICs can join with ICs, I do it all the time with my group.

They can, that's not the problem. The stupid technicality is in the codex, where the rules for a Thunderwolf Mount state that a model on such a mount may only join a unit of Fenrisian Wolves or a unit of Thunderwolf Cavalry. Technically speaking, even though a Wolf Lord is mounted on a Thunderwolf, it is still a Wolf Lord unit, not a Thunderwolf Cavalry. By the rules, a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf Mount cannot join another Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf Mount, they have to each separately join a third unit of Fenrisian Wolves or Thunderwolf Cavalry.

It's really stupid, but the league I play in won't let me do it any other way.

 Locclo wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Locclo wrote:
Honestly, I'm pretty happy with the book as it is. I'd like to see Blood Claws get a bit of a buff (there's not much reason to take them over Grey Hunters, really), but that's about it.

Oh, and include a bit in the FAQ that lets me run my four TWC Wolf Lords together instead of with a squad of Fenries because of a stupid technicality.

As far as I know ICs can join with ICs, I do it all the time with my group.

They can, that's not the problem. The stupid technicality is in the codex, where the rules for a Thunderwolf Mount state that a model on such a mount may only join a unit of Fenrisian Wolves or a unit of Thunderwolf Cavalry. Technically speaking, even though a Wolf Lord is mounted on a Thunderwolf, it is still a Wolf Lord unit, not a Thunderwolf Cavalry. By the rules, a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf Mount cannot join another Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf Mount, they have to each separately join a third unit of Fenrisian Wolves or Thunderwolf Cavalry.

It's really stupid, but the league I play in won't let me do it any other way.

One TWC Cavalry with a Thunder Hammer and a Storm Sheild fixes that.

Anpu42 wrote:Special Characters:

These suggestions are all too powerful

Anpu42 wrote:Grey Hunters: Take one Special Close Combat Weapon per 5 Models
Blood Claws: Take one Special Close Combat Weapon per 5 Models and/or Take one Special Weapon per 5 Models
Skyclaws: [/b]Take one Special Close Combat Weapon per 5 Models and/or Take one Special Weapon per 5 Models
Swiftclaws: Take one Special Close Combat Weapon per 5 Models and/or Take one Special Weapon per 5 Models

These are excellent suggestions, although I would swap it and say
Grey Hunters: Take one Special Close Combat Weapon per 5 Models and/or Take one Special Weapon per 5 Models
Blood Claws (variants): Take one Special Close Combat Weapon per 5 Models

Anpu42 wrote:“Great Company Saga’s”
Redmaw: Forge Wolf has that covered
Engir Krakendoom: Saga of the Beast Hunter, Swiftclaws become Troops
Erik Morkai: Great Company Wide Furious Charge
Gunnar Red Moon: Give Long Fangs he is attached to Relentless and Hatred [Eldar]
Harald Deathwolf: Can take Thunderwolf Cavalry, Fenrisian Wolves Troops. Add 1 to MotW Attacks [or re-roll]
Logan: Makes Wolf Guard Troops and army wide his leadership.
Ragnar: Makes Blood Claws of all types scoring if not outright Troop Choices. DA Style Drop Pod Assault.
Björn Stormwolf: Wolf Guard Bikers and Swift Claws become Troops. Grey Hunters can take Heavy Weapons in place of Special Weapons. Take Vindicator Squadrons.
Egil Iron Wolf: Land Raiders become Dedicated Transports instead of Heavy Support
Krom Dragongaze: Non-Jump, Non-Bike Wolf guard become Troops
Sven Bloodhowl: Extra VPs for killing with Flamers. Rune Priest can take Pyrokinetic Powers.
Kjarl Grimblood: Salamander like Fire ability. Land Raider Redeemers are Dedicated Transports
13th Company: Supplement Book

As a way to signal which company you've used, a small special rule would be nice, but nothing too powerful

hotsauceman1 wrote:Special weapons on calvary models. Seriously why no flamers or meltaguns? but they can take Axes?

Completely disagree with you. Axes make perfect sense for a cavalry model.... but a flame thrower when you're riding a giant ball of fur?!?!

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:I would like to see some of the old Rivalries come out into the game. IE: when facing Dark angels give both sides IWND (constantly trying to one up and stay in the fight) when facing Thousand Sons give the Wolves Hatred, same for facing GK or Inquisitor armies (sorroritas count)

I kind of agree, but it would be totally unfluffy to give one loyalist chapter a special rule for 'every time they go to war against' another loyalist chapter. Animosity is one thing, as is having a massive brawl in a tavern... you can't go giving Space Wolves special rules for war against the Inquisiton

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:More vehicle options (not flyers, as per fluff Wolves prefer to keep their feet on the ground)

Yes, but then WTF, why no flyers?

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:Personally I want Canis and the TWC gone

I agree that Canis is one of the worst sculpted models in recent history, but why does everyone hate TWC?

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:And obviously the return of Leman Russ

Lay off the crack. No one is getting a Primarch in 40K. Your best bet is to hope Forgeworld releases Heresy era Space Wolves

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:What we are gonna get:
Some recycled pictures

copy and pasted fluff with minor additives

QFT

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:chapter tactics and fixed points

maybe one or two new vehicles

lots of point manipulation

warlord stuff for the special Wolfy Characters

All these would be welcome. Honestly I can't find any reason why Space Wolves shouldn't have access to *ALL* the same hardware as any other Space Marine Chapter. So all the new tanks, Dreadnoughts, flyers, grav weapons etc.

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:What we dont want:

I have said it a few times now, We do not need and Monstrous Werewolf like creatures, stop it.

No mobile wolf mounted guns, this is not zoids gtfo

Yeh I don't want any furry Krootox shenanigans

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:flying vehicles. Seriously it will break fluff.

Wolf Guard: Let Jump Pack Wolf Guard join Skyclaws.

Skyclaws are put into jump packs because they are too wild as Blood claws to being with, its seen as a punishment from the older wolves. Why would Grey Hunters partake in this punishment as well? They are the best Troop choice atm, and can be a decent foot slogging group. Feet on the ground as the Emperor intended, if he wanted the wolves to fly he would have given them wings.

Right this is where you REALLY lost me.
WTF is with all the new kids going on with this crap about "the way Russ intended"?!?!?!?! It's BS
That stuff was never in the old Space Wolf fluff, and it's a very unwelcome addition to the new Space Wolf fluff.
No teleporting - OK I can accept a little bit of superstitious hesitation on the voodoo concept of being zapped into molecules and beamed across space and reassembled. But why no Jump Packs and why no flyers? and why do all the knobs sprouting on about it fail to complain about Land Speeders???

Fenrisians are mariners!
Jesus, they live on a planet that's 90% liquid most of the time, sailing about in little canoes until the water freezes enough to step out of the boat for a week
You call that "both feet on the ground as Russ intended" ??? give me a break

They're berserkers!
What could be better than a device that made it faster to get into axe range?!

Space Wolves *should* be ALL ABOUT fast attack options! Land Speeders, bikes, Thunder Wolves, jump packs, Storm Eagles, Thunderhawks, Caetus Rams, Storm Ravens, etc.

BTW i think you meant "Wolf Guard" when you said "Why would Grey Hunters partake in this punishment as well?"
For the record, Wolf Guard *CAN* have jump packs. You can have a whole squad of Wolf Guard in Jump Packs - lead by a Wolf Lord, Wolf Priest, Rune Priest, and WGBL who ALSO all have Jump Packs


Here's my "Need, Want, Get, Don't Want"

Need

Skriker wrote:No need to completely rebuild my army in any way.

This. Started playing in 2nd Ed and I'm sick to death of having half my models suddenly become illegal
- Rebalancing of points so that more entries/options are viable than just "Rune Priest, Grey Hunters, Long Fangs with ML". That's boring
- Need to fix what can only logically be an error of omission that Wolf Guard with Jump Packs can't lead Skyclaws. Doesn't make any sense, and should have been FAQed long ago. Bull$#!+ about what "Russ intended" can f#@% off
- AA

Want
- Rebalancing of points so that ALL entries/options become viable
- Change to the FOC for some less significant units. People almost never take things like Iron Priests, because who can spare the Elites spot for him? Iron Priests and Lone Wolves should both become 0-3 options for the army and not take up a FOC slot. Fenrisian Wolves should become 0-5 (no FOC)
- I'd like something new to get excited about. Surprises are always nice. We really *should* get parity of units from C:SM, but it will be pretty boring if all we get is the same stuff everyone else already got
- Something like a more meaningful, army wide Saga or Doctrine based on your Great Company. Nothing too powerful, but something to theme our armies and encourage sticking to the idea of the Great Company, and that each one is lead by a single Wolf Lord who shapes the Great Company in his own fashion. And include the scope to make my own Wolf Lord/Company/Fluff (cause I did already)

Get
- Like everyone said, we should finally get flakk missiles for our Long Fangs
- We'll probably get access to the stuff in Codex: Space Marines like Ironclads, Storm Raven / Talon (since we can already get them via Data Slate), Stalker/Hunter tanks, and probably grav weapons.
I don't know about Centurions and couldn't care less.
- Like people have been saying, we'll probably get our own Warlord table. I hope so because I struggle to find one with more than 1 ability worth having that we don't have already (acute senses, counter attack etc)
- I fell like they'll make a new plastic kit.... but the current Terminator / Power Armour Space Wolf kits are already so awesome and flexible that i don't know what they could add to it. just don't break what are already strengths please GW!
- Hopefully some artefact weapons like the old "Wargear Cards" or WHFB Magic items

Don't Want
- Them to totally change everything, and me have to totally remodel my army
- Lame new unit (e.g. werewolf MC)

I want to see JotWW completely cut out, tossed into an unholy fire, pissed on until the ashes form a fine paste and then be applied to Matt Ward's toilet seat as a kind of varnish.

That spell is an abomination and world is worse off because of it.

I want more units that are "worth it". I want a better balance between units. I want diversity not a mono-build army.

Remove the 24 bubble of runic weapons, and put them in line with other psychic defenses.

It'll be a pretty boring codex if all they do is nerf Rune Priests, and give us the existing Space Marine vehicles

Bjorn needs to be in a contemptor with some kind of crazy relic weapons. I'm pretty confident that he will be updated into a contemptor, so I hope he doesn't just get a standard weapon fit but some cool archeotech.

In the fluff, Space Wolves are supposed to be the finest pilots in the imperium due to their sharp senses from the canis helix. They need Stormravens and Stormtalons.

I don't think so. In fact I think it's specifically stated that they hate flying. And a good sense of smell is like being able to cook perfect spaghetti.... IE completely and totally irrelevant to flying ability. Space Wolves are actually probably the single worst of ALL space marine chapters at flying. Sorry.

 Silverthorne wrote:
Bjorn needs to be in a contemptor with some kind of crazy relic weapons. I'm pretty confident that he will be updated into a contemptor, so I hope he doesn't just get a standard weapon fit but some cool archeotech.

He just needs a 4++ Save and +1 HP. Though I would love hor him to get back his Lighting Claw.

The finest pilots in the Imperium are Glavians, they aren't even Space Marines.

For the Space Wolves... they are from a planet still stuck in the Iron Age. Where are they getting this flying ability from?

 Psienesis wrote:
The finest pilots in the Imperium are Glavians, they aren't even Space Marines.

For the Space Wolves... they are from a planet still stuck in the Iron Age. Where are they getting this flying ability from?

Some of the most difficult flying conditions in the Imperium and a willingness to pull daredevil stunts that'd make an Ork jealous.

And just who is replacing the pilots they lose in training? And the vehicles? Oh that isn't happening? That's because the Wolves aren't flying.

It also bears noting that none of the Great Companies are noted for specializing in air-insertion, air-superiority or air-combat at all. This is an odd exclusion for a Chapter that is supposed to be good at flying, don't you think? Given the legacy of heroics and great feats that the Space Wolves have, and the fact that they have 12 mini-Chapters to do it with, you would expect that someone's Great Company would get a mention, somewhere, about being the best pilots in the Chapter.

But we don't.

It's mentioned in the Space Wolf series that blood claws train to pilot vehicles from Iron Priests.

Death from the Skies has Space Wolf Ace pilots. Who can fly Thunderhawks, Caestus Assault Rams, and Storm Eagles.

There's literally no reason why Space Wolves won't have Stormravens at least.

I could see having air capabilities, as they are Space Marines, I just don't see them having "the best pilots in the Imperium". That just doesn't make any sense.

Superhuman senses and spatial awareness certainly does make sense for insane feats of aviation. Normal humans have to be in peak physical condition, selected from the cream of the crop, and train extensively to pilot high performance military aircraft because of the complexity and number of factors that are involved in performing the sort of maneuvers that combat helicopter and fighter jet pilots pull off.

Because you can smell a mouse fart in a sewer it makes you a great pilot?

"Peak Physical Condition" is something that defines all Space Marines. All of them are super-human examples. Under that requirement, *all* Space Marines would be the best pilots in the Imperium, especially ones like the Blood Angels who go all-out for getting perfect at something, or the ones with the closest ties to the AdMech, getting the most high-performing of high-performance aerospace vehicles.

Your ability to hear, taste and smell does not significantly impact your ability to pilot an aircraft. An argument could be made for your visual acuity and your tactile sense in certain circumstances, but not the basic operation of the vehicle.

Space Marines have a leg up on normal humans in a number of ways, the best space marine pilots must be better than the best human pilots.

Visual acuity, spacial awareness, and ability to focus on multiple things at once. Watch blackhawk down, where the "Little bird" pilot flies between two buildings. That's an example of what I'm talking about.

Visual acuity, spacial awareness, and ability to focus on multiple things at once.

All Space Marines can do that, this is not a unique trait to Space Wolves. The Glavians do it through augmetic implants.

dadakkaest wrote:
Superhuman senses and spatial awareness certainly does make sense for insane feats of aviation. Normal humans have to be in peak physical condition, selected from the cream of the crop, and train extensively to pilot high performance military aircraft because of the complexity aof factors that are involved in performing the sort of maneuvers that combat helicopter and fighter jet pilots pull off.

shows what you know. Being in good cardiovascular shape actually reduces your G tolerance. A guy that eats 5 cheeseburgers a day and finishes up with two packs of smokes will out pull a marathon runner in any type of turning dogfight. High Blood pressure and a high resting heart rate are your friends in acm.