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Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 sing your life wrote:
GW have already blamed TWG for their refusal to support independent stores.


LOL, what?

Sorry, that's nonsense, citation needed I'm afraid.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in gb
Brigadier General





The new Sick Man of Europe

 azreal13 wrote:
 sing your life wrote:
GW have already blamed TWG for their refusal to support independent stores.




Sorry, that's nonsense


Except it really isn't:

"Games Workshop terminated its trading relationship with Total Wargamer with effect from 23rd May 2014, as a consequence of the number of complaints we received in connection with this trade account and its failure to deliver orders, and provide refunds, to customers within the required timeframes. There has been no delay or fault on the part of Games Workshop with regard to the dispatch of products to this trade account."

No GW, the combination of TWG being far better when delivering non-GW compared to GW, other people's observation that Physical store nearly never has any GW product in stock and your reported hatred of 3rd party sellers makes me believe that TWG can't deliver GW because you won't give them the product, It's not really their fault [IMO]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/27 15:47:29


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Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

That's not GW blaming them for 'refusing to support independent stores'. That's GW blaming them for not supplying customers with the stock they didn't provide in the first place. Which is a situation I imagine a lot of independent retailers find themselves in.

 
   
Made in gb
Brigadier General





The new Sick Man of Europe

I meant GW was acting as if their lack of support for independents was actually the entire fault of said independent, sorry if you didn't get that.

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Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

Oh, I see what you mean now. Fair enough.

 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

As do I, and I agree, but that really wasn't what your first point said. Maybe use a few more of your words in future?

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







TWG being lousy at delivery times is a fact. GW being at fault for not supplying them is pure conjecture.

Posters on ignore list: 36

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Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
TWG being lousy at delivery times is a fact. GW being at fault for not supplying them is pure conjecture.


Depends if you base that assumption purely on your own experience though. I've heard from two store different owners that GW can be crappy with their stock deliveries, especially concerning new items, and have read the same thing from others on this very forum.

When you consider that quite often those same stores have no trouble at all fulfilling orders from many other companies, then it highlights what the variable is in that relationship. Again, I have heard first-hand about this.


Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
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Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Maybe, maybe not. We're a culture with zero accountability. People shift blame at every opportunity.

I just spent 4 weeks waiting on a Wayland order with no GW stuff in it. They're still selling that one part that they don't have in stock and obviously can't get. Half of that is a supplier issue. The other half is a store selling non-existing stock.

Posters on ignore list: 36

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

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Made in gb
Novice Knight Errant Pilot






I have to add I've had to cancel a few orders with wayland over the pass year, mostly due to delays, and I can say their customer service staff have been excellent in sorting out my problems.


http://thelaughterofthedamned.blogspot.co.uk/
 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Long Jetty, The place is a dump

I miss Maelstrom Games, they as far as I was concerned the best at delivering orders, ordered, payed and the following day posted five to eight days later arrived and I live in Australia. Never had a problem with them.

Guess who took over Maelstrom?

Also what ever happened to Waylands announcement a few days after the GW embargo that WILL set up a ROW (Rest of World) section for GW product, they boasted they found a loophole in the embargo?

"Ultramarines are Wusses".... Chapter Master Achaylus Bonecrusher

 
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

 Achaylus72 wrote:
Guess who took over Maelstrom?


Nobody 'took over' Maelstrom. Wayland bought out their debt to their distribution chain and used that leverage to close down a competitor.

I also miss Maelstrom, but let's face it - the way they were doing business, it was never going to last (see Total Wargamer now).

Having said that, I've never had a problem with Wayland, and they're my 'go to guys' for any ranges Troll Trader doesn't carry... or if I'm not buying direct.

“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

From what I heard Maelstrom expanded too quickly, spent a load of money they didn't have, and then when the money influx they were expecting didn't come through, left them with a massive debt that they couldn't recover from.

Also what ever happened to Waylands announcement a few days after the GW embargo that WILL set up a ROW (Rest of World) section for GW product, they boasted they found a loophole in the embargo?


Yes, I remember that.. obviously nothing ever came of it. I'm kind of glad it didn't now (entirely selfishly) as it prompted me to try out a load of games that I might not have otherwise.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
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Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

There were also accusations that Maelstrom simply diverted a lot of their money into their miniatures wargame that they are producing which left Maelstrom with insufficient funds to function normally.

They went into a bad cycle of having a huge backlog of orders they couldn't pay for; so they kept taking new orders and using that money to ship older orders; which when mounted to the debt they already had at many distributors didn't lessen that debt by much and also meant that new orders were simply ending up heavily delayed.


As for GW cancelling the trading agreement we have to assume that there is more going on than a simple "GW weren't sending enough stock". Indeed we already know that TW had problems with their communications to buyers which is likely what has prompted multiple complaints to GW.

Wayland has always been a bit sluggish with orders, but they've always maintained good customer service and communications. So even if you do have to/want to cancel its a simple quick process (you don't have to hunt and hound them).

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Made in gb
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot





Devon

giftsforgeeks.org.uk for competitive prices in the UK

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He 1500pts unpainted
Corbulo is practicaly Jesus with a chainsword  
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Long Jetty, The place is a dump

Yes it was a pity that Maelstrom mismanaged their business, not only that they mismanaged their business that also that when GW slapped on the embargo Maelstrom suffered.

As I understand it and correct me if I am wrong on this but Maelstrom main customer base was international as it was cheaper to buy off them than say a GW or Indie say here in Australia.

I did the figures on the mark up of Australian prices to what at the time Maelstrom (also Wayland and others that shipped GW products overseas) was charging, the average mark-up was 78.5%.

Also with free postage this made it very cheap and as a customer I took advantage of that. But here is what I was so impressed with Maelstrom.

1, their live stock feed (pre-embargo) was spot on it showed you how much stock they had at any given time, if a product was unavailable it said so.
2, they processed your orders and payments quickly, within an hour and notified you of that with an e-mail giving you the order number and payment number.
3, they posted your order either on the same day or the next day and gave you the tracking number.
4, parcels arrived within 7 days every time, However if were any delays due to weather they notified you on expected delays.

I had nothing but pleasurable experience with Maelstrom.

I have never used Wayland as a customer, and so I did the ring around with folks I know and asked then that I was interested in using Wayland and I was told avoid them like the plague.

Too many told me that they had nothing but headbutting the brick wall experiences, ticket after ticket, email after email with next to no communications and some even called Wayland from here in Australia only to be treaded with contempt.

Also you read it in just about every forum that Wayland that posters say in the majority of have woeful experiences, and even going on the Wayland site itself reading over the last 6 years of customers having to apply for Certificates/Tickets to know what has happened to their order.

It is not just an isolated incident but an avalanche of over the last 6 or so years of thousands of disgruntled customers saying never again, that is why I wont deal with them, I would rather pay the extra 78.5% mark up than deal with Wayland and that is sad.


"Ultramarines are Wusses".... Chapter Master Achaylus Bonecrusher

 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

I have heard stories that Maelstrom suffered a massive drop in turnover due to the international sales ban, but management were unwilling to make the commensurate cut in staffing to reflect that, and tried to soldier on with a massive liability that they couldn't possibly cover, payments got missed, and once you enter that tailspin it is very difficult to pull out from.

I've also heard reports that are decidedly less complementary with regard to intentions and decision making.

I suspect the truth lies somewhere between the two, and only a handful of people will truly know what happened, and even those will have wildly varying perspectives on the events.

For me, I've long since stopped having a single go to retailer for anything, I have no issue with WG, I'm a big fan of Trolltrader and Dark Sphere, I always go into Clifton Road Games in Exeter in person if I can, and one day, when I want something GW, I'll try out Kirton Games (the newest, local(ish) Ondy to me)

Frankly, since I took up X Wing, the main, and often sole, criteria is if they've got it!

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Long Jetty, The place is a dump

I can only say the highest regards and professionalism in the way TrollTrader operates, the lines of communications are excellent and NEVER EVER had fault in them.

Also I have looked over the last three pages and there are some highly regarded alternative sites, i'll take a look at them.


.

"Ultramarines are Wusses".... Chapter Master Achaylus Bonecrusher

 
   
Made in gb
Martial Arts SAS




United Kingdom

Heh, all I can say is that trusting a retailer is like trusting a die. No matter how good you think it is, it's still going to roll a 1 eventually. Sometimes it will even roll a 1 a couple of times in a row.. unlucky, but it rarely means the die itself is defective.

Of course, if you insist on binning a die when it rolls a 1 and proclaiming your love for a different die which has never ever let you down.. well.. you are just setting yourself up to be disappointed later. That, and you are going to get through a lot of dice


..oh, and for the record:

I have ordered from Firestorm several times. They have not let me down yet but they rarely stock the things I want to buy.

I have ordered from TrollTrader several times. They are a little slower, but have not let me down. They often stock the things I want to buy.

I have ordered from Wayland several times. They always offer the things I want to buy but how fast I get my order depends on whether or not it is actually in stock or simply 'available'. I have had an order arrive within a week and on the flip side, my current order has now taken longer than any of my orders from TW.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/01 15:17:57


   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Best thing about trading with Troll Trader - on ebay at least - is the feedback comments you get

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Obergefreiter




United Kingdom

 Achaylus72 wrote:

I have never used Wayland as a customer, and so I did the ring around with folks I know and asked then that I was interested in using Wayland and I was told avoid them like the plague.

Too many told me that they had nothing but headbutting the brick wall experiences, ticket after ticket, email after email with next to no communications and some even called Wayland from here in Australia only to be treaded with contempt.

Also you read it in just about every forum that Wayland that posters say in the majority of have woeful experiences, and even going on the Wayland site itself reading over the last 6 years of customers having to apply for Certificates/Tickets to know what has happened to their order.

It is not just an isolated incident but an avalanche of over the last 6 or so years of thousands of disgruntled customers saying never again, that is why I wont deal with them, I would rather pay the extra 78.5% mark up than deal with Wayland and that is sad.


Achaylus72

A few points you raise I'd like to take a moment to address.

Your comments contain a fair number of sweeping accusations that appear to be based on nothing more than third party allegations. You have not used us yourself and yet seem happy to accuse us of all sorts of shoddy behaviour. We are likely the largest independent wargames retailer in the world. We box up and ship thousands of products each week all over the world and have many thousands of happy customers who shop with us time and again. We provide everything from the latest Games Workshop releases to hard to find or out of print items from small one-man-band manufacturers. We've given several companies their first step into the retail world and have been proud supporters of kickstarters and been the first to bring to market some new ranges for years now.

Let me be clear: We do not treat our customers with contempt.

Why would we?

Its important to remember that forums represent a tiny (albeit vocal) proportion of the community. This can give the distorted impression that opinions and groups in these kind of places carry some kind of significant weight or are a significant proportion of the community. We love all our customers (even the odd one who doesn't love us!) but if the kind of comments found on some forums were even 10% of our customers - we would have been out of business a long time ago.

If you have questions about us, send me a PM. I'm always happy to talk.
   
Made in gb
Brigadier General





The new Sick Man of Europe

lord_blackfang wrote: TWG being lousy at delivery times is a fact.


Not exactly, People who but Mantic products from TWG report not very long delivery times by them.

lord_blackfang wrote: GW being at fault for not supplying them is pure conjecture.


That's kind of why I said it was my opinion....

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Made in gb
Airborne Infiltrating Tomcat




Deepest, Darkest, Dorset

Wayland are OK on about 80% of things and I've never had any problems with them, although I try and use my LGS wherever possible anyway

TWG - is this slang abbreviation for total w?????r , they are creating problems of their own design with stupid discounts almost at cost and no infrastructure or funding to back them up in case of any problems. From what I've heard other companies also no longer supply them as well as GW so it's clearly more of a issue with TWG themselves any probably money as well as complaints which would stop them being supplied. Most companies would only cease supply if there are serious issues with a customer so it must be bad.

People moan about Wayland but they seem pretty up front and anyway there are always going to be some issues when buying over the internet with stock control etc. Overall though the majority response to Wayland seems favourable although there are plenty of others to choose from if anyone has any issues.

Just my two pennies worth!

How do you expect me to know what it is if you haven't painted it! Unpainted models are just proxies for the real thing  
   
Made in gb
Skink Armed with a Blowpipe





 SoulDrinker wrote:
Wayland are OK on about 80% of things and I've never had any problems with them, although I try and use my LGS wherever possible anyway

People moan about Wayland but they seem pretty up front and anyway there are always going to be some issues when buying over the internet with stock control etc. Overall though the majority response to Wayland seems favourable although there are plenty of others to choose from if anyone has any issues.


Hi SoulDrinker,

We will always be upfront and honest about orders our customer have with us. As we have said before we feel that we are one of, if not the most open company in the industry. We welcome anyone who has a question regarding their order to contact us either through our helpdesk ( http://waylandgames.freshdesk.com/support/home ). our live chat system or over the phone.

We are always willing to help in anyway that we can.

Regards
Jake@Wayland

   
Made in gb
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






Just my two penneth worth. A week last tuesday I ordered a Malifaux model that was part of their summer sale. Three were in stock and ready to ship. I actually declined to purchase two other models as they were awaiting stock. I received the model just three days later on the friday, and that was with 2nd class delivery. Thought that was really good service.

I have had issues with them in the past with GW kits but this experience makes me want to use Wayland again providing I check that what I want is in stock and ready to ship.

My 40K and assorted projects: Genestealer Cult: October 15th http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1290/583755.page#8965486
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Well, 10 days along and I just got the 'unfortunately we are still waiting on your products to arrive at our warehouse' email.

All I ordered were a couple of Forgefiends/Maulerfiends & some foam trays.

Honestly, I'm not in a massive rush & I understand Weyland's issues but for the sake of saving a few quid I'll be going into brick and mortar stores from now on. This just isn't worth the hastle.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/09 20:54:55


 
   
Made in gb
Oberstleutnant





Back in the English morass

I tend to use Wayland if its something I'm not in a hurry to get. I have always got what I ordered but it is rarely fast delivery.

Wayland's big appeal is its wide range of stock and reasonable reliability but its too slow for it to be my first choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Malefic666 wrote:

Honestly, I'm not in a massive rush & I understand Weyland's issues but for the sake of saving a few quid I'll be going into brick and mortar stores from now on. This just isn't worth the hastle.


I have always had good service from Triple Helix and they do a -25% discount on GW stuff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/09 22:59:13


RegalPhantom wrote:
If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
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Made in gb
Guardsman with Flashlight





United Kingdom

Yeah, Wayland are still a damn good site. Best reliable discount site I've found.

The Dark Heresy Adventures with the Arex Kids (and Booster the Voidborn too!) 
   
Made in fi
Dakka Veteran




My personal experience is that if you're buying items that are in stock, Wayland seems to manage send items by the end of next working day. That is fast enough for me.

Some other companies I've used regularly are slightly faster (reacting within hour or max 2 within office hours), but that only makes 1 day difference, and not even that in all cases.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Well, I've got to give credit where credit is due - Weyland Games customer services are absolutely top notch, superb and very fast. I just wish they would email customers when a large order worth hundreds of pounds is being held up by one £3 item. I would much rather cancel that one offending item & take store credit or a refund.

Maybe something to think about Weyland?

Mal.
   
 
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