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 Wyzilla wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:
I approve of using unconventional units!

I approve of this approval.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Voting for Chaos Space Marines, specifically Warp Talons.

Warp Talons!

That is a horrible Night Lords list. If they would take a mark, they'd never go for Nurgle- Khorne, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh are the likely candidates, especially Slaanesh and Tzeentch.

Ironically, my terrible lists win. So, not so terrible.

That aside, the mental exercize there was to figure out a way to make them shine and I think I mentioned pretty clearly in the article that there were bound to be chalenges in making it work. It requires a good general to play and yeah, if you're not that excellent at 40K, you might not want to try it. It's not a noobcakes list for sure.

But if you're looking to make Warp Talons work and actually be worth while which is a tougher unit in that regard, this is certainly one way to do it.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:
I approve of using unconventional units!

I approve of this approval.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Voting for Chaos Space Marines, specifically Warp Talons.

Warp Talons!

That is a horrible Night Lords list. If they would take a mark, they'd never go for Nurgle- Khorne, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh are the likely candidates, especially Slaanesh and Tzeentch.

Ironically, my terrible lists win. So, not so terrible.

That aside, the mental exercize there was to figure out a way to make them shine and I think I mentioned pretty clearly in the article that there were bound to be chalenges in making it work. It requires a good general to play and yeah, if you're not that excellent at 40K, you might not want to try it. It's not a noobcakes list for sure.

But if you're looking to make Warp Talons work and actually be worth while which is a tougher unit in that regard, this is certainly one way to do it.

No, I'm referring to how it's more unfluffy then simply taking three Heldrakes in place of the Warp Talons. The whole point of taking Warp Talons in the first place is how they better suit Night Lords, not taking something like the Mark of Nurgle or Huron which has the opposite effect.

I've started a CSM army recently. While I've only played in low points games so far and in an admittedly hard semi-competitive meta, I have found slaanesh marked and icon bearing raptors in a 10 squad with a complementary lord to have performed a lot better than I expected. You have to play them smart and use terrain well. Maneuvering and timing is key, but they are a blast if properly supported through the rest of the list.

 Wyzilla wrote:

No, I'm referring to how it's more unfluffy then simply taking three Heldrakes in place of the Warp Talons. The whole point of taking Warp Talons in the first place is how they better suit Night Lords, not taking something like the Mark of Nurgle or Huron which has the opposite effect.

Well to be fair they dont favor ANY God, but that has no bearing on trying to make a unit viable, which this thread was supposed to be primarily about.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

No, I'm referring to how it's more unfluffy then simply taking three Heldrakes in place of the Warp Talons. The whole point of taking Warp Talons in the first place is how they better suit Night Lords, not taking something like the Mark of Nurgle or Huron which has the opposite effect.

Well to be fair they dont favor ANY God, but that has no bearing on trying to make a unit viable, which this thread was supposed to be primarily about.

Indeed, the primary goal is to think WAY outside the norm box and figure out ways to support and make effective the units considered "unusable" by so many players. Experience and tactics is definitely very important, but don't forget that one factor that greatly supports lists with any of the units we choose on this thread is suprise! If an opponent doesn't know it, they will likely not know how to address it and that can make them either hyper focus on your unit, ignoring perhaps more important things in that match, or just the opposite, and end up getting slaughtered by it.

 Jancoran wrote:
Ironically, my terrible lists win. So, not so terrible.

Well to be fair, so does my Khorne chosen-centered list.

It is still a terrible list.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

No, I'm referring to how it's more unfluffy then simply taking three Heldrakes in place of the Warp Talons. The whole point of taking Warp Talons in the first place is how they better suit Night Lords, not taking something like the Mark of Nurgle or Huron which has the opposite effect.

Well to be fair they dont favor ANY God, but that has no bearing on trying to make a unit viable, which this thread was supposed to be primarily about.

Not really. We've known of Night Lords who've fallen to Slaanesh, Khorne, and Tzeentch. Slaanesh probably being the most likely given that Night Lords are fairly hedonistic in M41, as to them (especially Raptor Cults) they reap pleasure from the fear of the prey and the joy of the hunt.

I still think that +1 warp talon is better than t5 warp talons.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Ironically, my terrible lists win. So, not so terrible.

Well to be fair, so does my Khorne chosen-centered list.

It is still a terrible list.

If you say so, friend.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

No, I'm referring to how it's more unfluffy then simply taking three Heldrakes in place of the Warp Talons. The whole point of taking Warp Talons in the first place is how they better suit Night Lords, not taking something like the Mark of Nurgle or Huron which has the opposite effect.

Well to be fair they dont favor ANY God, but that has no bearing on trying to make a unit viable, which this thread was supposed to be primarily about.

Not really. We've known of Night Lords who've fallen to Slaanesh, Khorne, and Tzeentch. Slaanesh probably being the most likely given that Night Lords are fairly hedonistic in M41, as to them (especially Raptor Cults) they reap pleasure from the fear of the prey and the joy of the hunt.

And yet, who cares. We're looking for efficacy. Not fluffy. But if you think they will be better on the field of battle serving Slaanesh, do your thing.

Alright it is that time again folks, throw in your votes!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry guys gonna have to cut this quick, put it up late, orks it is! What unit?

The episode is up! Check it out here: http://www.partialarc.com/roll-to-seize//roll-to-seize-ep-9-kan-of-kans

Or on iTunes @ rolltoseize

It is that time again ladies and gents, throw in your votes on what we should chat about next!

Would like to see Kommandos given a proper go. The new rules for them plus the formations seem promising but after the Ork release I haven't heard much about them.

On the Kanz episode you didn't give much (if any) mention to the grotzooka.

Land Speeder Vengeance for the win! The amazing Dark Angel's heavy choice that kills itself

 Vankraken wrote:
Would like to see Kommandos given a proper go. The new rules for them plus the formations seem promising but after the Ork release I haven't heard much about them.

On the Kanz episode you didn't give much (if any) mention to the grotzooka.

I apologize for the grotzooka not being mentioned, that was a miss on my end and should have absolutely been talked about.

Alright guys, the faction is locked down!

So, the gods have determined orks to be the next faction, so what unit should we focus on?

Also, if you feel there should be more units in the selection that fit the criteria, feel free to list them here or PM me and I will add them!

Flashgitz in Batlewagons = Amazeballs.

 Jancoran wrote:
Flashgitz in Batlewagons = Amazeballs.

Oh believe you me, if I played orks I would have 3 units in Wagons parked midfield having a grand ol time

Yeah. Them fellaz is highly effective and they are Nobs so if they gotta' scrap, they can scrap. I know that there is oddly only one person locally that plays with them and I find it difficult to fathom that!

Yeah I don't know any ork players that are even willing to try them...sad

As a Sisters of Battle player I have no idea why Celestians aren't on the list for underused units in our Elites slot. Basically the same statline and wargear as our basic Troops' leader with the Veteran upgrade, with one additional WS and their once-per-game special rule gives them Furious Charge in one friendly assault phase if it goes off. All for 14 points per model (the Troops come in at 12, though the Vet upgrade is another 10), and they don't even get a CCW. I like the idea of the unit being an elite melee-centric group in power armor, I love their fluff, but they're the only unit in the entire codex that I'm unwilling to field due to their awful, awful performance. Additionally, though I've only ever met a single other Sisters player in a shop, online I've spoken with several and not a single one uses the unit. I'll take Repentia over Celestians any day, and that unit only survives to turn three about one game in four. As far as Penitent Engines, I don't know why anybody would NOT take them. I have a squad of three and two Exorcists as my three Heavy choices, and the Engines outperform the Exorcists often enough that I can't remember the last time the tanks won out. I'm pretty certain the machine injects Murderfuel directly into the spine of the operator, rather than pain and suffering. Clearly the fluff has this wrong.

As for the Ork units everyone thinks are bad, my wife has a squad of 10 Flash Gitz and Kaptin Badrukk himself in a battlewagon in every game she plays, and pulls in a full squad of 6 Killa Kans running alongside a Deff Dread and followed by a Morkanaut when she has the points. It's kind of terrifying. Her Gitz toss out a massive 30 S5 shots with a random AP each turn - granted they almost always hit on 5's - and that's not counting Badrukk and all the weapons on the Wagon. That squad comes in at 395 points, the way she's built it, and it's worth every single one. The unit regularly removes a Rhino every turn and the Wagon can follow up on anything that was inside. She also mainly runs Gretchin for her Troops choices, anywhere from 20 to 60 depending on points and mission. They're amazingly difficult to remove from the table when a Big Mek is standing in the middle of them with a KFF, and they're so small that almost any terrain can be LoS-blocking for them. As far as the Nobz are concerned though, here's two more votes for them being kind of overpriced, but they're nasty when they make it into combat and they're fairly common so I'm not sure they fit for this thread. I think there's only one local Ork player who doesn't have at least one squad of them. My wife has a small squad of them with a Warboss for the sole purpose of being able to field a second Battlewagon, and that makes it a really tough choice to decide whether you can afford to charge the vehicle to take it out when you know what's sitting inside.

Celestians are incredibly under used. But... I only found one good use for them and that wa i nthe command squad or as a bodyguard for Kyrinov when you could still take him.

New episode is up! Check it out on our website here http://www.partialarc.com/roll-to-seize//roll-to-seize-ep-10-sneaky-lowdy or on itunes just search roll to seize

Don't forget to post your comments here, enjoy!

It's that time again ladies and gents! Cast your votes now, I COMMAND YOU!

Also, there have been many-a-changes to the game as of late, so if you have any comments or updates to the current selections of underused units, please feel free to post them here.

Don't Forget to cast your votes!

Sisters of Battle of course.

Question: Who in the warp-frenzied world said that Plague Marines and Noise Marines are terrible units? Also, Warp Talons, while not the greatest unit in the game have a few builds that can make them into monstrous CC monsters vs marines with MOS or MOK. With that point Dark Apostles while again aren't the best of units are basically mini-kharns and should be given something due to the fact that if fielded with MOK cultists are utterly terrifying.

Question: Why are TS and KBs under troops?

Suggestion: Put Chaos Termies under elites, like the loyalist scum I would rather have 7 cultists in a combat than 1 of these worthless abominations.

Statement: Sorry for putting your post under such scrutiny, but with CSM awful can go to over 9000 levels and we most focus to understand the true level of terrible.

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
Question: Who in the warp-frenzied world said that Plague Marines and Noise Marines are terrible units? Also, Warp Talons, while not the greatest unit in the game have a few builds that can make them into monstrous CC monsters vs marines with MOS or MOK. With that point Dark Apostles while again aren't the best of units are basically mini-kharns and should be given something due to the fact that if fielded with MOK cultists are utterly terrifying.

Question: Why are TS and KBs under troops?

Suggestion: Put Chaos Termies under elites, like the loyalist scum I would rather have 7 cultists in a combat than 1 of these worthless abominations.

Statement: Sorry for putting your post under such scrutiny, but with CSM awful can go to over 9000 levels and we most focus to understand the true level of terrible.

1: Units listed on this thread are not necessarily terrible, they are listed here because we rarely every see them. Other units can be very fluffy, but not very competitive, another reason why they would be listed here.

2: I listed units only as they were told to me, are TS and KB no longer troops? Can they not be troops? if so, let me know and I will list them appropriately.

3: Will do! Added!

Pathfinders work alright offensively if you use dark strider
Drone squads are deadly with a commander + controller.
Vespid aren't bad if your meta is mostly space marines. The problem with all the fast attack isn't that they are bad, but that they have to compete with path finders

Hammer heads are fine IMO

Stealth suits aren't bad, just they can't compete with crisis suits or rip tides. Why get a unit if good troops when a specialized unit or an op riptide are options?

Sniper drones don't suck they just have to compete with a lot and cost way to much money

Fire warriors are okay IMO, but I can see why Poole don't like them. I think they depend on your list, and you can do a lot with them.

There are very few bad units in the tau codex, so much so that the okay units have a hard time competing with the good ones