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Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 RunicFIN wrote:

To be honest there´s hundreds of other companies with reports that are worded just like GW´s. Like I said, it´s common, everyday stuff. I guess the people who have the energy to be amazed about it haven´t read too many reports outside GW and are thinking they are something special. They´re not.


Go on then, humour us and show us these reports.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say your endeavour will be... otiose.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in fi
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Finland

 Grimtuff wrote:
Go on then, humour us and show us these reports.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say your endeavour will be... otiose.


Forgot to ignore you the last time, goodbye. Humour the others by screaming that other companies in existence don´t act in the same manner with their reports because I didn´t provide you proof. After that you could start a conspiracy website about the earth being round, as no one provided you with a concretical source on the matter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/08 20:22:20


   
Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot






Failing corporation just being looted by its leaders. Nothing new; classic strategy to just squeeze as much blood from the stone as possible.
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 RunicFIN wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
Go on then, humour us and show us these reports.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say your endeavour will be... otiose.


Forgot to ignore you the last time, goodbye. Humour the others by screaming that other companies in existence don´t act in the same manner with their reports because I didn´t provide you proof. After that you could start a conspiracy website about the earth being round, as no one provided you with a concretical source on the matter.


Then the burden of proof would be on me. However, as you are the one who has made such a statement the burden of proof is on YOU.

I'll be waiting for these Kirby-esq writing style reports from those hundred of other businesses.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 RunicFIN wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:

I fail to see the relevance to what you're saying other than to try and lash out at people who are treating the excuse making with the derision it deserves.


That´s just an opinion of yours, not an universal truth,

Correct!


Nice pseudointellectual counter-argument there,

Spoiler:


finding commonplace things somehow extraordinary I find a bit stupid aswell. And that also, is an opinion.


However, commenting on things that are stupid about the largest wargaming company in a forum about wargaming where those common place things don't often occur, and that is full of people who wouldn't necessarily have the knowledge to know how commonplace they are is completely understandable.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 Theduke07 wrote:
Failing corporation just being looted by its leaders. Nothing new; classic strategy to just squeeze as much blood from the stone as possible.


Let's not exaggerate as it just fuels the fires of those who want to dismiss criticism of the company (and it's effects on the bottom line) willy nilly. They're not failing; they're just less profitable year after year. They're still turning a profit but the trend is now indisputable and established from several years of data and not changed by cash grab "solutions".

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 RunicFIN wrote:

 Thud wrote:

This year has seen both sales and profits decline. The decline in sales was expected, but it has been hard to project accurately the amount. Most of the decline is due to the trading cycles I spoke about last year – partly product cycles and partly channel problems. Some of it, though, is our own fault. During the good times, when life is easy, it’s possible to forget the good habits that earned those good times. All of us forgot some of those good habits, and some of us forgot all of them.


Guess which company.


I fail to see what purpose this serves as the point was that other companies act like GW do. Just because there are some that don´t doesn´t make it any less so, unless someone argumented that no company admits failure. Which I atleast did not.



It was Kirby. Circa, what 2008? Perhaps earlier.


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch




Manchester, England

weeble1000 wrote:
 RunicFIN wrote:
To be honest there´s hundreds of other companies with reports that are worded just like GW´s. Like I said, it´s common, everyday stuff. I guess the people who have the energy to be amazed about it haven´t read too many reports outside GW and are thinking they are something special. They´re not.


To be honest, no, no there's not.

Games Workshop has had a really good year.
If your measure of 'good' is the current financial year's numbers, you may not agree. But if your measure is the long-term survivability of a
great cash generating business that still has a lot of potential growth, then you will agree.


Because no one seems able to grasp the essential simplicity of what we do there has always been the search for the Achilles heel, the one
thing that Kirby and his cronies have overlooked. These are legion.


Kirby's rambling 'plain-speaking' (idiotic?) preambles are so characteristically unusual that it has been newsworthy.


Except that reporter is actually referring to Andrew Perloff, the chairman of Panther Securities and comparing him to Kirby.

I really don't see what any of these threads are really for, but weird porn for people who are obsessed with its imminent demise. GW do what they do and they sit right at the very top of the food chain. So what? They aren't really the same company they were in 1984, 1990, 1996 (thankfully) or 1999. So what? The whole gaming industry right now is in absolutely rude health from what I can see, and the internet has helped immeasurably. GW are simply too successful to fold; their profits are down a few million? Well, damn, they still appear to be making tens of millions more than many other companies. That does not spell imminent demise. And even though I'm not all that interested in GW miniatures anymore (though what I've seen the last few years actually looks pretty amazing, almost enough to tempt me back) their other products are brilliant, like the paints, brushes and quite alot of the terrain (the Citadel wood was the first GW model I'd bought in three years, and then I bought another four sets) so I'd be quite happy for them to stick around for another thirty years.
   
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Finland



Not sure I used that word with you before, and I´m quite aware what it means thank you.

   
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Regular Dakkanaut




 Azreal13 wrote:


It was Kirby. Circa, what 2008? Perhaps earlier.



2006 ish I think.
   
Made in no
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Nice to see I'm not the only one who has been paying attention to the reports for more than the last year. It was indeed Kirby in 2007.

"The Emporer is a rouge trader."
- Charlie Chaplain. 
   
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 RunicFIN wrote:


Not sure I used that word with you before, and I´m quite aware what it means thank you.


All evidence the the contrary....


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
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Finland

 ekwatts wrote:
I really don't see what any of these threads are really for, but weird porn for people who are obsessed with its supposed imminent demise.


It´s even made better by the fact that this has been ongoing for 10 years. Every positive report is a fluke, a direct result of this and that ( ofcourse they are, should GW just conjure money out of thin air for these people to be satisfied? ) and they are always dismissed, and every negative one is where GW falls under for the 765th time. Comedy at its best.

   
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 RunicFIN wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
Of course not!

But if I was papering over the cracks I wouldn't expect people not to take the piss out of blatant hoop jumping, knot tying, prevarication, finger pointing or smoke blowing either.

Just because it's the done thing, it doesn't make it not stupid.

But then, I've pretty much already said that and you didn't grasp it.


Except in this case, actually, you didn´t grasp what I said. Ofcourse it´s stupid. The mind boggling part is how some don´t see how commoplace it is.

 Yodhrin wrote:
There's a difference between the board putting out a financial statement that amounts to "WOE, WOE, WOOOOEEEE! Gird your loins, my children, for all is WOOOOOEEEEEE!" and acknowledging that things aren't going so well and you're going to take steps to address it. Nobody is expecting Kirby to actually admit he's a moron, but at some point they're going to have to stop blaming everyone and everything else and actually lay out how the company is going to proceed.


To be honest there´s hundreds of other companies with reports that are worded just like GW´s. Like I said, it´s common, everyday stuff. I guess the people who have the energy to be amazed about it haven´t read too many reports outside GW and are thinking they are something special. They´re not.


No there aren't. The Daily Telegraph business pages went out of their way to comment in the off piste type of reports that GW puts out. It really is pretty unusual, and worthy of comment.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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Kansas

GW has been 'too expensive' and 'collapsing soon' since the early 90s, if not before.

   
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Let's wait until the interim report. If it is down on last year they might actually be too expensive and collapsing soon.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Wraith






 RunicFIN wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
Go on then, humour us and show us these reports.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say your endeavour will be... otiose.


Forgot to ignore you the last time, goodbye. Humour the others by screaming that other companies in existence don´t act in the same manner with their reports because I didn´t provide you proof. After that you could start a conspiracy website about the earth being round, as no one provided you with a concretical source on the matter.


Translation:
Spoiler:
I cannot dispute you and you have an opinion I don't like, thus I'll ignore you and pretend it never happened. It's working for Games Workshop, so why not for me?


The "I'm ignoring you" post is the most childish response you can have. Burden of Proof is a logical fallacy, my friend.

The usual gang will be rolling out, pouring ourselves a festive beverage, and awaiting the semi-annual of lighting up the GW fiscal report. Forgo your loved ones, keep your pajamas on, and prepare yourself for internet fun. Gather 'round, y'all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/08 21:08:50


Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb

 
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Seems we have a new member who has thicker shields than even Kan. Impressive.


 Dr Mathias wrote:
GW has been 'too expensive' and 'collapsing soon' since the early 90s, if not before.


Except that's not true. Anyone with a brain can see how well they were doing during the LOTR years, and how it expanded their brand, their business, and their profits. They were growing. Now they're shrinking.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dr Mathias wrote:
GW has been 'too expensive' and 'collapsing soon' since the early 90s, if not before.


Except that's not true. Anyone with a brain can see how well they were doing during the LOTR years, and how it expanded their brand, their business, and their profits. They were growing. Now they're shrinking.


Yup. As described by the old manager of my local GW the shelves at the end of the weekend looked like "a Russian bread shop" during the LOTR boom. Same cannot be said for nowadays. Well, nowadays there's less product on the shelves and its spread out to cover the gaps.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
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Finland

I was talking about companies showing themself in a favorable light, and smoothing out the edces in general, which is what countless companies do around the world every day. There. Are.

   
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 RunicFIN wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
I really don't see what any of these threads are really for, but weird porn for people who are obsessed with its supposed imminent demise.


It´s even made better by the fact that this has been ongoing for 10 years. Every positive report is a fluke, a direct result of this and that ( ofcourse they are, should GW just conjure money out of thin air for these people to be satisfied? ) and they are always dismissed, and every negative one is where GW falls under for the 765th time. Comedy at its best.


What positive reports? I haven't seen one that I can recall since the LOTR bubble burst.

There's a very steady trend of cost-cutting and price raises over the last half a decade. I would opine that GW originally envisaged it as a way of making the same amount of money whilst having to produce/handle less product (thus cutting costs further). Not necessarily a bad idea in and of itself.

The problem is that when taking such a course of action, there's a watershed at which if you've cut too far, that profit figure can start to fall. GW passed that point, and just reasoned , 'Hey, well, if we cut those costs and price raise just a little more, the new sales figures will make us the same amount of profit as it used to do'.

But then it didn't. So they kept jacking up prices and cost-cutting, convinced that the perfect balance was constantly just around the corner, and missing it each and every time. The result being a steady decline in both costs to themselves, but also of total profit, with the decline in profit always steadily just ahead of the savings made.

They're not in a death spiral, far from it, but the actions taken by their management shown a genuine lack of innovation and understanding of their core market. If they keep it up for another five years, we may see their total profit down from ten million to five or three, with their running costs appropriately smaller. And whilst that wouldn't destroy them in and of itself, it's not exactly a good thing for the company.


 
   
Made in us
Wraith






Games Workshop has gotten some money from me this year with a copy of Space Hulk (I stayed true to my "release it and I'll buy!" word), but did it really sell all that great? I was hearing anecdotes of it warming the shelves with a cooled reception.

Not the best board game, but it's a better beer and pretzels than the actual table top game, IMO. I'm sure the re-release was spurred by a "let's print money" notion, but did that succeed?

Also, their latest poster boys released is rumored to have no new units, changing the force organization to invalidate previous armies, and raising the price on core troops again. Doesn't seem to be a wise choice, to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/08 21:19:22


Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb

 
   
Made in fi
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Finland



The most adult response towards someone whos only goal is to follow one around and irritate them on purpose is to ignore them, in my opinion.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/12/09 06:07:56


   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 RunicFIN wrote:
I was talking about companies showing themself in a favorable light, and smoothing out the edces in general, which is what countless companies do around the world every day. There. Are.


Keep backpedaling. That's not what you said at all.

So, about those financial reports from other companies that are written exactly how Kirby writes? Don't make us go all Paxman on you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/08 21:20:53



Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
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Major




In a van down by the river

Yes, the "Everything is fine!" language in the body of the report is pretty par for the course. Having helped with a few public reports, there's always some sort of sunshine-pushing going on. I wouldn't read anything into it as the reports are shareholder marketing, and all marketing is lies.

Numbers can be made to lie as well, but a six million pound profit still translates to "not going away anytime soon" in most circles. They are vastly under-performing their market segment where many other vendors are showing growth while they are contracting, but that's not particularly shocking to anyone who's been paying attention. Sadly, the list of people paying attention does not include GW's staff based on their latest annual report.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 Krinsath wrote:
Yes, the "Everything is fine!" language in the body of the report is pretty par for the course. Having helped with a few public reports, there's always some sort of sunshine-pushing going on. I wouldn't read anything into it as the reports are shareholder marketing, and all marketing is lies.

Numbers can be made to lie as well, but a six million pound profit still translates to "not going away anytime soon" in most circles. They are vastly under-performing their market segment where many other vendors are showing growth while they are contracting, but that's not particularly shocking to anyone who's been paying attention. Sadly, the list of people paying attention does not include GW's staff based on their latest annual report.


My chief concern would be, given the current pattern, is that their net profit is reasonable for their turnover, but their cost base is substantial. It wouldn't take much more than a few duff releases at this point that didn't sell to average or expected numbers, to push revenue down sufficiently that they started making a net loss. Even that wouldn't be the imminent doom, they could post a loss and still keep trading, depending on their reserves and making further economies, but something would still need to happen to change the current trajectory, and I'm just not seeing that at this point.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
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Longtime Dakkanaut




 TheKbob wrote:


Not the best board game, but it's a better beer and pretzels than the actual table top game, IMO. I'm sure the re-release was spurred by a "let's print money" notion, but did that succeed?



Well, it won things like ... board gaming awards ... how many GW games can say that .. Lol.

And I don't even think it was "only" about "let's print money". It sets up the entire Blood Angels vs. Tyranid campaign nicely. But, like Stormclaw, GW seems unable to square their new (actually not bad) idea for "tie-two-armies-with-a-campaign-and-box" with their own paranoid secrecy policy.

As armchair marketing guy (e.g. no qualifications whatsoever), I can't help but think these campaigns would've created more excitement, if they'd come out at the start and said... "listen, we're doing a huge Blood Angels vs. Tyranids campaign for the next 3 months, kicking off with Space Hulk... here's a first story/mission booklet (White Dwarf, download, etc..) to get you started and tease the story". Add store-run campaigns, etc.., off you go.

Instead, not even store managers seemed to know before the boxes arrived.

Ultimately, I am a bit sad. Stormclaw and Space Hulk didn't seem to have gotten GW out of its funk, which I can only assume means these formats go back to the endangered species list of GW products, and I actually thought they were some of the cooler 40K products in a while.
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





Since the LOTR bubble burst, it's been a steady trend of downwards.
I've been around since RT and I've never seen it this bad. Not just financially but moral of the playerbase. This isn't "business as normal." Something is wrong and if GW doesn't fix it, they will go under. (though I don't think it'll be any time soon.)



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
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Louisiana

 ekwatts wrote:
Except that reporter is actually referring to Andrew Perloff, the chairman of Panther Securities and comparing him to Kirby.


It was in the news because it is not commonplace. Just because someone other than Tom Kirby writes preambles like that doesn't mean that it is the norm. The person I was responding to was arguing in a particularly acidic way that this was a normal practice engaged in by hundreds of companies, so normal that it was not worth talking about.

Lo and behold, it is so not normal that it is the subject of mainstream financial news for its departure from normalcy.

That is the point I was making, and that was the thrust of the article I provided a link to.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/08 21:41:13


Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

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Devon, UK

Wonderwolf wrote:


As armchair marketing guy (e.g. no qualifications whatsoever), I can't help but think these campaigns would've created more excitement, if they'd come out at the start and said... "listen, we're doing a huge Blood Angels vs. Tyranids campaign for the next 3 months, kicking off with Space Hulk... here's a first story/mission booklet (White Dwarf, download, etc..) to get you started and tease the story". Add store-run campaigns, etc.., off you go.


In this context, your qualifications aren't in the least important, what's important is that you are a person who buys, or may consider buying, GW's product.

Therefore what you think is the most important thing in the world for GW, or should be when it comes to how they should be doing things. Unless you held some extreme or unsustainable viewpoint, and what you say here isn't, what you say as "armchair marketing guy" aka "a potential customer" should be akin to holy writings for GW.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
 
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