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 Jancoran wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
IMO the Tau codex is class because unlike a lot of codexes it allows you to take an army that's very reflective of what an actual tau empire army would look like (ie lots of battlesuits) unlike the likes of Eldar where you have nothing but wave serpants. However, as a tau player, I think some things need to change.

1. Make Shadowsun and Farsight Lords of War to prevent them being used in the same game. Or create a rule preventing such a team up ever happening. If he has the Dawnblade, Farsight is always a traitor and would never fight alongside shadowsun or Aun Va.

2. Make it so that only commanders can take buff upgrades and so that they can only have one active at a time. Reduce the amount of upgrade slots they have.

3. Get rid of the drone controller to prevent abusive bs5 markerlight drone swarms. This means the army must rely on lower bs units for its markerlights.

4. Riptides price should remain the same. But, they and also all other battlesuits including broadsides should be prevented from taking intercept and skyfire upgrades. This AA role should be purely given out to the skyrays and tau aircraft. Its simply broken to give main frontline units cheap access to AA and anti flanking weaponry, especially because it directly counters many of the deployment strategies used to counter shooting armies.

The main point though is I think a lot of the problems with tau stem from the buffs and the equipment section rather than the units or weapon profiles themselves.

Im sorry did i miss a chapter. how again is Tau supposed to handle Chaos Daemons and Eldar Wave spam if you do all this? How are necron Bakeries and other power armies going to be stopped?


sounds like sour grapes to me.

Other than Psychic shenanigans, Daemons aren't that strong. Also, Eldar and Necron Bakeries should get the nerf bat once its been thoroughly used on the Tau

 Jancoran wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
IMO the Tau codex is class because unlike a lot of codexes it allows you to take an army that's very reflective of what an actual tau empire army would look like (ie lots of battlesuits) unlike the likes of Eldar where you have nothing but wave serpants. However, as a tau player, I think some things need to change.

1. Make Shadowsun and Farsight Lords of War to prevent them being used in the same game. Or create a rule preventing such a team up ever happening. If he has the Dawnblade, Farsight is always a traitor and would never fight alongside shadowsun or Aun Va.

2. Make it so that only commanders can take buff upgrades and so that they can only have one active at a time. Reduce the amount of upgrade slots they have.

3. Get rid of the drone controller to prevent abusive bs5 markerlight drone swarms. This means the army must rely on lower bs units for its markerlights.

4. Riptides price should remain the same. But, they and also all other battlesuits including broadsides should be prevented from taking intercept and skyfire upgrades. This AA role should be purely given out to the skyrays and tau aircraft. Its simply broken to give main frontline units cheap access to AA and anti flanking weaponry, especially because it directly counters many of the deployment strategies used to counter shooting armies.

The main point though is I think a lot of the problems with tau stem from the buffs and the equipment section rather than the units or weapon profiles themselves.

Im sorry did i miss a chapter. how again is Tau supposed to handle Chaos Daemons and Eldar Wave spam if you do all this? How are necron Bakeries and other power armies going to be stopped?


sounds like sour grapes to me.

That the Eldar have an OP unit in their Codex should be addressed by fixing that unit, because that one unit is not a specific counter to certain Tau builds, it's highly, highly, excessively effective for its points cost against... pretty much anything.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
IMO the Tau codex is class because unlike a lot of codexes it allows you to take an army that's very reflective of what an actual tau empire army would look like (ie lots of battlesuits) unlike the likes of Eldar where you have nothing but wave serpants. However, as a tau player, I think some things need to change.

1. Make Shadowsun and Farsight Lords of War to prevent them being used in the same game. Or create a rule preventing such a team up ever happening. If he has the Dawnblade, Farsight is always a traitor and would never fight alongside shadowsun or Aun Va.

2. Make it so that only commanders can take buff upgrades and so that they can only have one active at a time. Reduce the amount of upgrade slots they have.

3. Get rid of the drone controller to prevent abusive bs5 markerlight drone swarms. This means the army must rely on lower bs units for its markerlights.

4. Riptides price should remain the same. But, they and also all other battlesuits including broadsides should be prevented from taking intercept and skyfire upgrades. This AA role should be purely given out to the skyrays and tau aircraft. Its simply broken to give main frontline units cheap access to AA and anti flanking weaponry, especially because it directly counters many of the deployment strategies used to counter shooting armies.

The main point though is I think a lot of the problems with tau stem from the buffs and the equipment section rather than the units or weapon profiles themselves.

Im sorry did i miss a chapter. how again is Tau supposed to handle Chaos Daemons and Eldar Wave spam if you do all this? How are necron Bakeries and other power armies going to be stopped?


sounds like sour grapes to me.

That the Eldar have an OP unit in their Codex should be addressed by fixing that unit, because that one unit is not a specific counter to certain Tau builds, it's highly, highly, excessively effective for its points cost against... pretty much anything.

Eldar have several OP units.

As a Tau player I do see there are certain spots where rules abuse can occur. A shift in editions has also tweaked a few things.

Here's what I would adjust down.

1) Only one signature system per model.

2) Early Warning Override becomes a signature system that grants Interceptor to the entire unit, but the model with it can't shoot as a part of the attack. This removes the Riptide Interceptor Pie Plate of Doom effect and only one unit in the army can get Interceptor.

3) This isn't Tau specific, but it hurts Tau the most. Change Overwatch to make it like Interceptor in that weapons fired on Overwatch cannot be fired in the subsequent Shooting Phase.

4) Take a hard look at the Riptide's point value. Consider bumping it up a bit, but if so, the Nova Reactor probably needs to drop to a wound on a 1 only.

5) Stimulant Injectors probably can go back to being a Signature System. Again this solves the over buffed Riptide issues.

Edit to add: I'd make a few sidegrades too and there are a couple of units that probably could use slight tweaks upwards, but that's another topic. I'm just focusing on things that could be too strong.

 Psienesis wrote:

That the Eldar have an OP unit in their Codex should be addressed by fixing that unit, because that one unit is not a specific counter to certain Tau builds, it's highly, highly, excessively effective for its points cost against... pretty much anything.

So much so that at the height of that power, during v6, that unit wasn't even spammed that much and Eldar maintained a healthy 51% Win rate average against Tau, Necron, SM and Chaos Daemons.

Really, that unit must by highly highly excessively effective for its points cost against pretty much anything.

But when a Tau whines about Wave Serpents, that's just sad. Most of your codex was designed to simply annihilate them and winning with Mechdar against Tau is an uphill battle.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Ratflinger wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


Crisis suits are pretty heavy with melta/plasma options. Add in the fact that Farsight makes em not scatter and some of the ridiculous crisis suits you can get from FW (2d3 melta shots), and most rear armor vehicles are toast. LRs is probably the only thing Tau have a tough time cracking, and even those won't stand up to repeated abuse.

And how many points of melta is that? To me it sounds like a Tau army without much meat that might explode a few vehicles before it is swept off the board. Realistically Tau will be able to take some melta, but not a whole lot and will struggle against both AV 13 and 14.

Now, granted, I do not really play Tau. But to me it seems whenever they are discussed they are running lists with several super kitted riptides, that have both stimulants and interceptor/skyfire in some magical fashion. They have tons of crisis suits everywhere equipped with expensive wargear, lots of fire warriors w. devilfishes. Buff commanders with swarms of drones, Multiple units of broadsides.

To me Tau realistically brings lots of s5 and s7 shooting, are pretty immobile and fragile and struggle against AV 13+.

I play a Tau guy quite frequently. To be fair, I run two LRs usually and our meta usually has a decent amount of armor. That being said, AV 13 is pretty worthless, as rear armor is 10 or so. This is the core problem. When you can deepstrike your melta without scatter, even S5 can glance rear armor on most things. He doesn't normally run Devilfishes or tons of Riptides, so the crisis suits are usually half the army when he's going for AT, I will admit that. But you can take each crisis suit as an individual unit, so stacking wounds on them becomes much harder (yeah Force Org, but Unbound, so who cares?).

I don't think Tau are super OP, but they have enough that their synergy is much easier to do than most other armies. Even Eldar need some form of teamwork. Tau are almost built entirely on the purpose of everything working together. That would seem great, but when you break rule such as ignoring cover and overwatching at almost full BS, that breaks the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:

Da Stormlord wrote:
Tau shouldn't be nerfed. They're never able to beat me in a match. And that was when I fielded a force 500 points weaker than my opponent.

What was you fielding so we can get some sort of context besides just trust me.

"I beat a 12 year old playing Eldar, they're not nerfed." Guess what? There's a reason scientific journals require experimental and not anecdotal evidence.

I take it he runs Farsight then. I also take it he apparently uses four marker lights for every single crisis suit that shoots. That it is a lot of points. Especially if the crisis suit is kitted out. Granted, most Tau I play on the other hand have given up on Farsight lists due to not having enough bodies on the table, only using smaller Farsight detachments. On the other hand I rarely play unbound because I think that is a can of worms in itself.

To some degree the point I am trying to make is that Tau does not have free unlimited marker lights for every shooting attack they make. And it might be a bad idea to deep strike a unit of terminators in the open in front of a riptide.

I think it is immensely unfair to say that markerlights let Tau to just break the game. They simply cannot have access to four pathfinders for every attack they make. Especially not if they split their army up in MSU:s.

Non-Farsight units cannot deep strike without scattering and will need melta to handle AV 13. I hardly think lists consisting of 50% anti tank is the norm, especially if they have proper support. That means cutting down on riptides, broadsides, firewarriors. What have you. It makes for a list with limited amounts of shooting, though the shooting is high strength. It also makes for a list with few bodies that will struggle to hold objectives.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
IMO the Tau codex is class because unlike a lot of codexes it allows you to take an army that's very reflective of what an actual tau empire army would look like (ie lots of battlesuits) unlike the likes of Eldar where you have nothing but wave serpants. However, as a tau player, I think some things need to change.

1. Make Shadowsun and Farsight Lords of War to prevent them being used in the same game. Or create a rule preventing such a team up ever happening. If he has the Dawnblade, Farsight is always a traitor and would never fight alongside shadowsun or Aun Va.

2. Make it so that only commanders can take buff upgrades and so that they can only have one active at a time. Reduce the amount of upgrade slots they have.

3. Get rid of the drone controller to prevent abusive bs5 markerlight drone swarms. This means the army must rely on lower bs units for its markerlights.

4. Riptides price should remain the same. But, they and also all other battlesuits including broadsides should be prevented from taking intercept and skyfire upgrades. This AA role should be purely given out to the skyrays and tau aircraft. Its simply broken to give main frontline units cheap access to AA and anti flanking weaponry, especially because it directly counters many of the deployment strategies used to counter shooting armies.

The main point though is I think a lot of the problems with tau stem from the buffs and the equipment section rather than the units or weapon profiles themselves.

Im sorry did i miss a chapter. how again is Tau supposed to handle Chaos Daemons and Eldar Wave spam if you do all this? How are necron Bakeries and other power armies going to be stopped?


sounds like sour grapes to me.

Other than Psychic shenanigans, Daemons aren't that strong. Also, Eldar and Necron Bakeries should get the nerf bat once its been thoroughly used on the Tau

Why not before? In most tournaments I've heard about eldar and daemon lists have consistently placed ahead Tau.

This is something I don't get: there are several strong armies that deserve the nerf bat in various amounts, and yet some of them (tau and eldar) attract orders of magnitude more whine than others (SM and Daemons). Necrons seem to be somewhat in the middle.

As a dread knight spammer I can acknowledge that Dread-knights are a little too strong. However,compared to a riptide they are really over pointed and under powered. Basically every game I've played against Tau I've been forced to ignore the riptides - they take something like 15 laz cannons to take down. Minimum save for a riptide is 4+cover and 5+ fnp and has 5 wounds...they are too tough - I'm fine with their damage.

 Xenomancers wrote:
As a dread knight spammer I can acknowledge that Dread-knights are a little too strong. However,compared to a riptide they are really over pointed and under powered. Basically every game I've played against Tau I've been forced to ignore the riptides - they take something like 15 laz cannons to take down. Minimum save for a riptide is 4+cover and 5+ fnp and has 5 wounds...they are too tough - I'm fine with their damage.

As a Riptide user I feel the exact opposite: I dread Dreadknights (pun intended): They can blast you from cover with their bloody ID Force shots ir they can shunt in your face and break you down in melee.

Jefffar wrote:
1) Only one signature system per model.

2) Early Warning Override becomes a signature system that grants Interceptor to the entire unit, but the model with it can't shoot as a part of the attack. This removes the Riptide Interceptor Pie Plate of Doom effect and only one unit in the army can get Interceptor.

3) This isn't Tau specific, but it hurts Tau the most. Change Overwatch to make it like Interceptor in that weapons fired on Overwatch cannot be fired in the subsequent Shooting Phase.

4) Take a hard look at the Riptide's point value. Consider bumping it up a bit, but if so, the Nova Reactor probably needs to drop to a wound on a 1 only.

5) Stimulant Injectors probably can go back to being a Signature System. Again this solves the over buffed Riptide issues.

Edit to add: I'd make a few sidegrades too and there are a couple of units that probably could use slight tweaks upwards, but that's another topic. I'm just focusing on things that could be too strong.

1) I could live with that, though obviously you'd have to change a lot because the most infamous pieces of gear were clearly designed to be used together.

2) Fair enough, I could probably live with that, though I still think it would be a better idea to just price the EWO appropriately for its in-game effect instead. Your proposed solution is probably what GW would be most likely to do, though...if they don't just remove it entirely.

3) That's how it should be anyway, so yes. Although if we're implementing this change then I'd say it's only fair to allow Tau players to continue boosting Overwatch shooting with markerlights.

4) If it were me I'd say consider just getting rid of the riptide entirely, but you know...probably not going to happen no matter how badly I want it to.

5) Again, I dunno...I think I'd rather see a price hike than limiting them to one per army. I guess I'm not that fussed either way though.



I would even go as far as making a few more changes on top of that. I really should be going to bed though so I guess I should keep this short, lol.

1) Get rid of Supporting Fire, good god. Regular Overwatch is good enough I think, being able to Overwatch one unit with everything in range is just over-the-top. Or at least nerf it massively so that you can only back it up with one other unit, maybe? I dunno but that needs toning down regardless.

2) This one is also obvious, but army-wide Ignores Cover is just a little too much. I still think it's a cool thing to have but it should cost a lot more markerlight counters than it currently does. Make it so that removing a counter downgrades the save by one. Hell, two counters if you absolutely must but I think one counter is fair enough.

LordBlades wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
As a dread knight spammer I can acknowledge that Dread-knights are a little too strong. However,compared to a riptide they are really over pointed and under powered. Basically every game I've played against Tau I've been forced to ignore the riptides - they take something like 15 laz cannons to take down. Minimum save for a riptide is 4+cover and 5+ fnp and has 5 wounds...they are too tough - I'm fine with their damage.

As a Riptide user I feel the exact opposite: I dread Dreadknights (pun intended): They can blast you from cover with their bloody ID Force shots ir they can shunt in your face and break you down in melee.

They are similar units. Riptides should cost more than dreads if you ask me. They are a standoff unit that doesn't even have to show it's face to the enemy to deal good damage. Dread knights have max 24" weapons so in order to deal damage they have to risk damage all while having less woulds and less overall durability.

Less overall durability?

If you mean by not having the option to get FNP and or bump up invul at a risk of a wound on a 4+ then i guess.

The Dread is a infantry toaster and a very good vehicle killer IF it gets into combat.

the range makes it so its at least possible to out play it.

Its also the 60" threat range of riptide i think that also makes them complaint bait.

Doesnt the DK come with sanctuary? or was it force and hammerhand only?

 Desubot wrote:
Less overall durability?

If you mean by not having the option to get FNP and or bump up invul at a risk of a wound on a 4+ then i guess.

The Dread is a infantry toaster and a very good vehicle killer IF it gets into combat.

the range makes it so its at least possible to out play it.

Its also the 60" threat range of riptide i think that also makes them complaint bait.

Doesnt the DK come with sanctuary? or was it force and hammerhand only?

It definitely has Sanctuary.

 Desubot wrote:
Less overall durability?

If you mean by not having the option to get FNP and or bump up invul at a risk of a wound on a 4+ then i guess.

The Dread is a infantry toaster and a very good vehicle killer IF it gets into combat.

the range makes it so its at least possible to out play it.

Its also the 60" threat range of riptide i think that also makes them complaint bait.

Doesnt the DK come with sanctuary? or was it force and hammerhand only?

Toe in cover? In ruins? 4+ cover save and 5+ FNP

Dread has sanct. Very rarely is there any point in even casting it. Abusing toe in ruins 4+ cover saves and putting magic dice into more important things works better for me. Sometimes I'll shunt only an objective in no mans land and cast it. Even with a 4+ invo +1 wound and 5+ FNP is better. Throw in some none AP2 fire saturation and ripetide wins by a mile. It's also 60 inches away and costs less. It needs to cost more.

Personally im more in for increasing the cost of the 60" death gun. but ether way i dont think anyone disagrees there needs to be major price twerking.

Well I actually ATTEND a lot of tournaments and I'm tellin you right now: Chaos Daemons and Wave spam are as common as rain and almost always making top tables or very nearly. Tau need no more help losing to them. Sorry.

You're talking about an army that has zero Psyker defense and you want to take out their anti-air?

This just sounds completely unreasonable tripe. I get not liking to lose to a Tau General... but these arent the changes you should really be focused on. Tau can now compete. They do well. They are not dominating tournaments but doing very well and thats fine. the Generals who stuck with Tau tend to BE btter at th game because they had to be.

People forget perhaps that Flyers hac a six-fold increase in survivablity from 5E. That's huge. You have GOT to have something to deal with that.

One of the things about Tau is, they are forced to use Broadsides and Riptides for anti-air instead of killing easier to kill stuff. So you unfortunately dont get to fire them at the Ground targets they are better at killing as often as you'd prefer, compared to a Space Marine who can just chunk off a few points for dedicated anti air, and also sprinkle it liberally amongst his basic Tactcal units!

I watched a brand new player with his pair of basic boxed sets use tac marines to take down a flying Necron Bakery just by using tac squads. That was pretty hilarious. 4 flyers downed over the course of time by run of the mill Tacticals.

So again, this just sounds like sour grapes to me.

Yeah the wave serpant is broken. The problem is that GW clearly intended it to be a tough delivery mechanism for Aspect Warrior. They never considered that it was more useful as a cheap gun platform....

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Yeah the wave serpant is broken. The problem is that GW clearly intended it to be a tough delivery mechanism for Aspect Warrior. They never considered that it was more useful as a cheap gun platform....

If only there were people who could test that sort of thing.

Maybe by playing games and trying it out.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Yeah the wave serpant is broken. The problem is that GW clearly intended it to be a tough delivery mechanism for Aspect Warrior. They never considered that it was more useful as a cheap gun platform....

60" range... I mean... come on...Lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Other than Psychic shenanigans, Daemons aren't that strong. P

Im sorry. "Other than"? there's no "other than". Thats absolutely what they do and its absolutely a real threat to Tau.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:


That the Eldar have an OP unit in their Codex should be addressed by fixing that unit, because that one unit is not a specific counter to certain Tau builds, it's highly, highly, excessively effective for its points cost against... pretty much anything.

And that really doesnt change the fact that Tau need an answer to it and marker Lights are the only (albeit vulnerable) one they have. So again I think the O.P. has missed his mark on where the changes should be. Besides. Markerlights arent going anywhere.

 Jancoran wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Other than Psychic shenanigans, Daemons aren't that strong. P

Im sorry. "Other than"? there's no "other than". Thats absolutely what they do and its absolutely a real threat to Tau.

Khorne. That is my answer. You can also make a Daemon army without relying on Pink Horror Summoning spam.

As far as I see it, making markerlights like the old ones (-1 cover per, but also the ability to lower Ld), and some price changes on the riptide (or just getting rid of the fluff destroying monstrosity ) would get rid of any problems.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
As far as I see it, making markerlights like the old ones (-1 cover per, but also the ability to lower Ld), and some price changes on the riptide (or just getting rid of the fluff destroying monstrosity ) would get rid of any problems.

Honestly now Riptides are fine... If they where like 1 per detachment considering they are supposed to be experimental and stuff.

 Desubot wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
As far as I see it, making markerlights like the old ones (-1 cover per, but also the ability to lower Ld), and some price changes on the riptide (or just getting rid of the fluff destroying monstrosity ) would get rid of any problems.

Honestly now Riptides are fine... If they where like 1 per detachment considering they are supposed to be experimental and stuff.

That would actually make a lot of sense. A bit like how FW does it's relics thing.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Other than Psychic shenanigans, Daemons aren't that strong. P

Im sorry. "Other than"? there's no "other than". Thats absolutely what they do and its absolutely a real threat to Tau.

Khorne. That is my answer. You can also make a Daemon army without relying on Pink Horror Summoning spam.

Im not worried about the summoning. And if you play Khorne, good for you. I hope it all goes well. but thats not whose winning torunaments. Tzeentch FMC's are.

 Jancoran wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Other than Psychic shenanigans, Daemons aren't that strong. P

Im sorry. "Other than"? there's no "other than". Thats absolutely what they do and its absolutely a real threat to Tau.

Khorne. That is my answer. You can also make a Daemon army without relying on Pink Horror Summoning spam.

Im not worried about the summoning. And if you play Khorne, good for you. I hope it all goes well. but thats not whose winning torunaments. Tzeentch FMC's are.

So Pink Horror Summoning spam isn't Psychic spam? Good to know. Guess you just summon them and feth around. Also, you said there's no other than, I showed you something that was, and you're answer was "Yeah, but that's not WAAC".

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Other than Psychic shenanigans, Daemons aren't that strong. P

Im sorry. "Other than"? there's no "other than". Thats absolutely what they do and its absolutely a real threat to Tau.

Khorne. That is my answer. You can also make a Daemon army without relying on Pink Horror Summoning spam.

You can also play tau with stealthsuits and vespid. your point?

 jreilly89 wrote:

So Pink Horror Summoning spam isn't Psychic spam? Good to know. Guess you just summon them and feth around. Also, you said there's no other than, I showed you something that was, and you're answer was "Yeah, but that's not WAAC".

Summoning is fine if your army allows them that kind of time. If they want to fart around on their turn with that, I can deal with most of my armies.

But what we WERe talking about...was... In what ways Tau should be nerfed. And if thats STILL the discussion YOURE involded with then my answer makes perfect sense. I'm pointing out to you that Tau need to worry about ANY army that has heavy Psykers and that a Khorne based Chaos Daemon army isnt as scary to Tau as the one that firse 4D6 Flickering fire twice a round, sometimes more, annihilating entire squads off the board.

Unless you actually have anti-air AND you have markerlights, those armies will just steam roll Tau. So my point...again if you're still discussing the OP's point... Was that the going overboard with nerfs is short sighted because armies like the ones im talking about DO go to top table for a reason and without answers, we'd be just another victim. No offense but I've been playing Tau since 2004 and I think Ive taken quite enough abuse over those 10 years to know what would happen.

So bottom line is a Khornate list isnt going to be the biggger issue. it brings its own challenges but it isnt the major mismatch the Tzeentch FMC list is. Not for Tau.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:

You can also play tau with stealthsuits and vespid. your point?

Ironically I do own that army also.

That's actually a surprisingly fun way to play because nobody expects it. I had someone ask if vespids were a FW unit once .

 Jancoran wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

So Pink Horror Summoning spam isn't Psychic spam? Good to know. Guess you just summon them and feth around. Also, you said there's no other than, I showed you something that was, and you're answer was "Yeah, but that's not WAAC".

Summoning is fine if your army allows them that kind of time. If they want to fart around on their turn with that, I can deal with most of my armies.

But what we WERe talking about...was... In what ways Tau should be nerfed. And if thats STILL the discussion YOURE involded with then my answer makes perfect sense. I'm pointing out to you that Tau need to worry about ANY army that has heavy Psykers and that a Khorne based Chaos Daemon army isnt as scary to Tau as the one that firse 4D6 Flickering fire twice a round, sometimes more, annihilating entire squads off the board.

Unless you actually have anti-air AND you have markerlights, those armies will just steam roll Tau. So my point...again if you're still discussing the OP's point... Was that the going overboard with nerfs is short sighted because armies like the ones im talking about DO go to top table for a reason and without answers, we'd be just another victim. No offense but I've been playing Tau since 2004 and I think Ive taken quite enough abuse over those 10 years to know what would happen.

So bottom line is a Khornate list isnt going to be the biggger issue. it brings its own challenges but it isnt the major mismatch the Tzeentch FMC list is. Not for Tau.

My point stands. You said Daemons also needed to be nerfed, and I pointed out that only key units are OP, such as the Psychic Spam. Tau, otherwise, have a lot of very strong units. Even while not being OP, several of their units work well together. This isn't a bad thing, but when other codices don't have that same level of synergy, it makes it unfair. Look at a Daemons list, where mixing Khorne and say Tzeentch or Nurgle doesn't have the same effect.

So yes, I am still talking about OP's point, and I'd rather not have YOU talking down to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Other than Psychic shenanigans, Daemons aren't that strong. P

Im sorry. "Other than"? there's no "other than". Thats absolutely what they do and its absolutely a real threat to Tau.

Khorne. That is my answer. You can also make a Daemon army without relying on Pink Horror Summoning spam.

You can also play tau with stealthsuits and vespid. your point?

That the person I quoted was complaining that Daemons only come in the WAAC variety.

 jreilly89 wrote:


So yes, I am still talking about OP's point, and I'd rather not have YOU talking down to me.

Don't give me a reason and you wont find me doing it. Stay on Target.

Right now what you're telling me is that what?... Tau should be nerfed in these copious ways BECAUSE... they... what? they have synergy? Thats whats unfair to you as you defend INVISIBLE KHORNE DOGS?

Hoboy.

The Tau Empire don't HAVE synergy. They REQUIRE synergy. You can break that synergy. You'd defend Dante for 225 points but you'd curse a Riptide that costs that much? Whose going to win that fight? How many times out of 10? Yeah. and what turn will he be charging in? Turn 2? So i get to fire my cannon once and die? When the Tzeentch Daemon levels 14 STR 5 AP 4 hits against me that never miss basically from a FLYING platform... then Psychic Shrieks my LD 7 or 8 unit, I'll take solace in my synergy wile I remove my Broadside unit and all its expensive Drones.

And when the single Khorne Dog squad made invisible by Be'Lakor eats my entire army on multicharges, I'll try to remember that synergy. Ill try to see how we should nerf the Tau Empire and give it no answers to ANY of that. yeah that'll be MORE fun.

My bottom line point, which you seem to be fighting is that the Tau Empire is competitive and it does well as aforementioned and that's good for 40K but you cant NOT give an army ANY answer to certain threats. those days are gone man. The speed bump armies are gone now and everyone's got a fighting chance, everyone has a schtick. Hell ,the Tyranids are kicking arse at some tournies for the love of Pete and you couldn't count the number of Tyranid armies that went on sale the day that codex did.

Every army needs to have answers to the various 40K threats and the Tau have none for very important and predictable threats if you make the changes being talked about..