Switch Theme:

Is Unbound an acceptable way to build?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
40kenthus




Manchester UK

Back when I were a lad(second ed, yo) my mates and I used to play with what we had. I had loads of Eldar, one had Dark Angels, someone else IG etc. We'd play to points but any sort of FOC was out.

This was also allowed in the local GW.

People pish and moan enough about balance as it is, so Unbound shouldn't really get anyone's knickers in a twist, imfo.

Member of the "Awesome Wargaming Dudes"

 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Boston, MA

 Peregrine wrote:
 oni wrote:
The key words are 'abuse' and 'intentions'. Simply using the Unbound rule(s) to sure up an army with additional Elites and/or Heavy Support to mitigate a weakness isn't a problem - at least I don't see it as one. It's when Unbound is maliciously misused in the sole desire to win even if that means a complete disregard and lack of respect for their opponent. I (and most others) play 40K to have fun, to have an enjoyable social interaction playing a game with a mature, like-minded individual... I (and most others) have no desire to be the punching bag for some codependent, emotionally stunted, man child who compensates for his inferiority by thinking they can in some manner prove their worth or somehow establish dominance by winning a game. If this is your intention behind using the Unbound rule(s), whether your conscious of it or not, you're better off saving your money and just going around punching babies.


But how is this any different from a player with the same attitude and a battle-forged list?


I don't think I often agree with Peregrine, but regarding Unbound he is dead on... and frankly even if these hypothetical 'doom and gloom' nightmare Unbound lists ever hit a table most seem to have serious deficits and glaring weaknesses.

Please check out my photo blog: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Unbound is fine and generally a great idea. The trouble is the units that get taken make Unbound rather annoying. For instance, you could take 87 Crisis Suits, 6 Riptides, 7 Daemon Princes, 7 Flying Hive Tyrants, the list goes on. Generally, as long as you're not being a total WAAC, Unbound is fine and accepted.

~1.5k
Successful Trades: Ashrog (1), Iron35 (1), Rathryan (3), Leth (1), Eshm (1), Zeke48 (1), Gorkamorka12345 (1),
Melevolence (2), Ascalam (1), Swanny318, (1) ScootyPuffJunior, (1) LValx (1), Jim Solo (1), xSoulgrinderx (1), Reese (1), Pretre (1) 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





There's absolutely nothing abusive about Unbound armies that isn't also abusable within Battle Forged armies.

Players make the problem in either format.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/22 21:10:59


"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
There's absolutely nothing abusive about Unbound armies that isn't also abusable within Battle Forged armies.
This. Really, with the ability to take multiple CAD's, armies of nothing but formations, etc, there's really no reason that Unbound should really be an issue at this point.


IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






Peregrine wrote:
 oni wrote:
The key words are 'abuse' and 'intentions'. Simply using the Unbound rule(s) to sure up an army with additional Elites and/or Heavy Support to mitigate a weakness isn't a problem - at least I don't see it as one. It's when Unbound is maliciously misused in the sole desire to win even if that means a complete disregard and lack of respect for their opponent. I (and most others) play 40K to have fun, to have an enjoyable social interaction playing a game with a mature, like-minded individual... I (and most others) have no desire to be the punching bag for some codependent, emotionally stunted, man child who compensates for his inferiority by thinking they can in some manner prove their worth or somehow establish dominance by winning a game. If this is your intention behind using the Unbound rule(s), whether your conscious of it or not, you're better off saving your money and just going around punching babies.


But how is this any different from a player with the same attitude and a battle-forged list?


It can absolutely be the same with Battle Forged, yes, but the no-limitations format of Unbound allows for more extreme abuse.

I'm not arguing that Unbound is a bad thing - in fact I love Unbound, I quite often play and play against Unbound armies, but it's the player attitude... their intentions... their reasons for using Unbound that can make it a positive or a negative.

It's the extremes that it allows for that a CAD or multiple CAD's somewhat (not entirely, but somewhat) mitigate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/22 22:42:56


 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

The only thing multiple CAD"s do is force a Troops tax, but give a bonus to them for doing so, along with rerolling the Warlord trait.

As much as I dislike the concept of Unbound, the fact that you can take multiple CAD's makes any significant opposition fairly moot, particularly alongside Formations which let you take stuff outside of that restriction anyway and get bonuses for doing so.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




 Peregrine wrote:
If I want support units like inquisitors and assassins I have to pay that HQ + troops tax again, and they won't be as good as the imperial version because they won't be battle brothers with the rest of my army (no assassins in drop pods, inquisitor psychic buffs, etc). The only way to avoid paying HQ + troops taxes that imperial armies don't have is to play an unbound army.


Not entirely true. There are formations out there which allow armies to plug in support characters in armies other than Imperials.

As one example, the Harlequin 'Path of Heroes' formation is one each of Solitaire, Shadowseer and Death Jester with no troupes required. As a second, Mogrok's Bossboyz gives you three Big Meks, a Warboss and a Wierdboy without taking up slots in your other detachments. Chaos Space Marines can field one of the best support characters in the game - Be'Lakor - as a dataslate formation.


Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





When it comes to building an unbound army it all depends on the mindset and environment you are playing in. Generally if you are building one to just kick everyones teeth in and they are playing with lists that don't have the tournament mindset you wont make many friends. However if you are wanting to build a list that is silly fun or has a cool theme then I say go for it! Just get the idea of what the environment is at the stores your planning to play at and base it around that.

19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Orlando

In my area, good luck finding a game. No one will play against you and thus far aside from a fun tournament with that purpose, tournies here do not allow unbound.

Infantrymen do not die, they go to heaven and regroup. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

I'd rather that unbound not have been added to the rule book.

I would not play in an event that allowed unbound.

I would play against unbound in the pick up game. I only have one deal-breaker criteria in a pick-up game. Don't be a jerk.

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
-






-

 kronk wrote:
I'd rather that unbound not have been added to the rule book.

I would not play in an event that allowed unbound.

I would play against unbound in the pick up game. I only have one deal-breaker criteria in a pick-up game. Don't be a jerk.


Well said!

And Exalted!

   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






 jreilly89 wrote:
you could take 87 Crisis Suits, 6 Riptides, 7 Daemon Princes, 7 Flying Hive Tyrants


... and a Partridge in a Pear tree!

That would be a very expensive megapocalyplse ultimate showdown army LOL. On the other hand, GW would be very happy at how much money that guy spent building that army!

Also: can you imagine transporting it?
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




Kangodo wrote:
A CAD of Eldar, combined with a Detachment of Assassins and a Detachment of Imperial Knights, is still Battleforged.

Or you could do Eldar+Dark Eldar+Harlequins if you want all battle-brothers.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





For the most part I don't like unbound, and wish they hadn't added it. Most common use is/will be cheese. However, for some corner cases, it can be useful. When I wanted to field my Skyweavers, but didn't have a Voidweaver, unbound was the only way I could.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Unbound is a large debate.
I'd be interested to implement Unbound at the RTT level.
This is because I'm organizing a local tourney bimonthly.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




My FLGS owner told me this weekend that in his tournament scene, almost noone plays Unbound, even though he allows it, because they are afraid to lose Objective Secured.

...which was honestly surprising to me.

I don't like the idea of Unbound because of the potential for stuff like this:

3 Bloodthirsters
4 Riptides
Solitaire
Canoptek Harvest
A blob of Ork Boyz
A White Scar Biker squad

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/11 19:50:45


 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 jasper76 wrote:
My FLGS owner told me this weekend that in his tournament scene, almost noone plays Unbound, even though he allows it, because they are afraid to lose Objective Secured.

...which was honestly surprising to me.

I don't like the idea of Unbound because of the potential for stuff like this:

3 Bloodthirsters
4 Riptides
Solitaire
Canoptek Harvest
A blob of Ork Boyz
A White Scar Biker squad

Or 5 Flyrants or Dreadknights.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Grey Templar wrote:
Most people do not play with the unbound rules. And I'm pretty sure 99% of tournaments only accept bound lists.

Given the fact that you can take multiple detachments in normal games anyway, there is very little reason to play unbound unless you're running nothing but HQ models or something equally hilarious.


Old Space Wolves codex...nothing but Lone Wolves.

Tier 1 is the new Tactical.

My IDF-Themed Guard Army P&M Blog:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/355940.page 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut




 wuestenfux wrote:
 jasper76 wrote:
My FLGS owner told me this weekend that in his tournament scene, almost noone plays Unbound, even though he allows it, because they are afraid to lose Objective Secured.

...which was honestly surprising to me.

I don't like the idea of Unbound because of the potential for stuff like this:

3 Bloodthirsters
4 Riptides
Solitaire
Canoptek Harvest
A blob of Ork Boyz
A White Scar Biker squad

Or 5 Flyrants or Dreadknights.


Well, TBH you can build a bound tournament list with 5 flyrants already.

You don't have to be happy when you lose, just don't make winning the condition of your happiness.  
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

The sillyness that's possible with "bound" lists drastically outweighs at this point I think the possibilities of Unbound. I'm still surprised to hear myself espouse that view, but formation and detachment bonuses are becoming increasingly powerful and ridiculous.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






 Vaktathi wrote:
The sillyness that's possible with "bound" lists drastically outweighs at this point I think the possibilities of Unbound. I'm still surprised to hear myself espouse that view, but formation and detachment bonuses are becoming increasingly powerful and ridiculous.


Yep. Even the most recent Tyranid list was Battleforged, but still nasty.

~1.5k
Successful Trades: Ashrog (1), Iron35 (1), Rathryan (3), Leth (1), Eshm (1), Zeke48 (1), Gorkamorka12345 (1),
Melevolence (2), Ascalam (1), Swanny318, (1) ScootyPuffJunior, (1) LValx (1), Jim Solo (1), xSoulgrinderx (1), Reese (1), Pretre (1) 
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




Little Rock, Arkansas

Unbound is absolute negatory here. In an attempt to flip off GW with their "almost unbound" setup of infinite detachments, our rule is max 1 detachment per 1k points, and no unit can be taken more times than it could in a single CAD.

Ex: in a double CAD you could take 2 hive tyrants, but not 4. You could however take a tervigon and the swarmlord along with the 2 tyrants. By doing this, we've cut down on the amount of spam possible, but haven't hurt armies that have overloaded slots from using that variety.
IE BA could run 3 death co and 3 sanguinary guard in double cad, and our nid player likes running 3 solo venomthropes, a couple zoanthropes, and a hive guard unit as 6 elites.

20000+ points
Tournament reports:
1234567 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






I like unbound cause i can create a squad of SAG meks led by a MFF Megamek joined by a few wierdboyz and KMK.

And i also think that bound was irrelevant since 6-th. Now it gets obsec and reroll to warlord trait at very list. Not once has obsec won me games, tbh.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 04:15:31


 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Old Space Wolves codex...nothing but Lone Wolves.

What's a base lone wolf? I wonder what people would say if I came with a 2000 point army, with, what, 100 individual units....
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 kingbobbito wrote:
 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Old Space Wolves codex...nothing but Lone Wolves.

What's a base lone wolf? I wonder what people would say if I came with a 2000 point army, with, what, 100 individual units....


Killteam.

However, they're more like 30-40 pt base, i think.

Now you can run 133 mucolid spores in 2000

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 05:50:21


 
   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes






I would play you in a non-kill point game sure! In a kill point game not so much (but this isn't saying much because kill points is already super unbalanced) and during that game when I bring chaos renegades and tarpit your knights with 40+ models per knight and each time a kill is secured on one of my squads it comes back on a 2+ plus with outflank then begins tarpit your knights again while my Word Bearers/World Eaters prance around te board killing everything else and taking all of the objectives you can't complain about it being overpowered (also haha Mr. you can't beat this with non-imperium I just gave you a valid strat right here to beat it). If you are ok with me being a tad bit cheesy like that vraks unending list with CSM support I am ok if you bring (and actually happy if you do) and entire BF list of literally just adamantium lance formations.

Remember: You are spending slot of points on singular models (what I'm trying to point out above) so remember armies such as orks, tyranids, Chaos guard, and to some extent normal guard will probs give you a lot of trouble.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 06:36:55


[Khorne Daemonkin Warband] 4/4/0 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




niv-mizzet wrote:
Unbound is absolute negatory here. In an attempt to flip off GW with their "almost unbound" setup of infinite detachments, our rule is max 1 detachment per 1k points, and no unit can be taken more times than it could in a single CAD.

Ex: in a double CAD you could take 2 hive tyrants, but not 4. You could however take a tervigon and the swarmlord along with the 2 tyrants. By doing this, we've cut down on the amount of spam possible, but haven't hurt armies that have overloaded slots from using that variety.
IE BA could run 3 death co and 3 sanguinary guard in double cad, and our nid player likes running 3 solo venomthropes, a couple zoanthropes, and a hive guard unit as 6 elites.

Ah, I get it. You won't let people build their armies as they please.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

Is so hard to simply not play against you find undesirable rather than creating overbearing general rules that also stop people using things you don't really care about?

I don't understand the need to pile on layers of extra rules instead of just finding someone to do something mutually enjoyable :(. Perhaps I am just lucky enough to have plenty of people to hand that want similar enough things out of the game as I do?
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Indeed. you dont "have" to play against unbound if you dont want to, and if you are in a tourney then you already read the rules and should of tagged out if they did allow it

at the same time Unbound may allow for extreme cheese but that doesn't mean that is the ONLY way to build on it.

anything from gits and shiggle lists and just taking what you have on hand, to very intricately themed fluff lists.

The only thing that isnt acceptable in a game situation is cheaters and thats it. the rest is clashing attitudes towards that game.




 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: