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Just so there's a little context present, I don't think DF was really planning on heavily courting wargamers, more that they've been listening to the community in the comments, and a couple of commenters wouldn't shut up about it.

It is nice that they're willing to take feedback from their user base and adopt things on the fly, but at the same time, it does mean that occasionally a squeaky wheel gets some grease and it turns out those people might have had a somewhat inflated view of the importance of their opinion.

Like, there was outcry for a Sewers-only tier, which they made, and as of posting has like 81 backers between the painted/unpainted combined, many of whom were backers at other tiers already. Surely it attracted some new interest, but whether that warranted an entire tier worth is harder to say.

I mean, a bit under 20% of the backer base are in for a painted Empire, or about a grand or more worth of stuff. Some people are in for multiple thousands of dollars, if what they say is true. It's kind of impressive how well funded some of these folks are (I'm definitely not one of them; struggling to remain a backer and feel I'm getting a solid value even at the lighter end of backing).

I liked using my dungeon tiles for Malifaux games, but I agree that if I were trying to fill 9 square feet, getting 1 square foot of stuff for ~200-300 US I'd be thinking hard about that.

As for coverage, keep in mind that it'd be variable based on how high you built up. The Wargamer streets contains the equivalent of 72 4" x 4" tiles. It takes 9 of those to cover a 1' x 1' area, so the streets alone covers 8 square feet, or nearly a full 3x3 table on their own. The Empire pledge can do like 10 buildings that are 4" x 4" by 3 stories, or a few larger/taller buildings, but another square foot there would be easy.

So not to defend it as a good idea, and it'll obviously depend on the game, but it's definitely more than just "2-3 square feet".

People ask, they respond. That's how it works. If the people didn't stop asking, doesn't hurt anyone. Thats how things get done. I can't imagine how its a detraction that they are willing to hear and try to cater to their audience's desires, as well as look to new blood who are willing to pay them money.

Minus your judgement on that, you are quite spot on about the coverage of the wargamer and the empire levels. This is the first time they are looking to make the cross over and while they are clearly a company more focused on rpg'ers, it doesn't hurt to expand the base. As someone who does both, I'm happy to see that and I think this KS has so much more to offer than some have posted about. I can't use caverns and sewers and dungeons in a skirmish game, but I sure can use the buildings, streets, alleys, keep pieces for both rpg and for wargaming. The cost makes it far more accessible if you are not just focused on one game type. The modular system means I can adapt it very well to the various games I play and that actually makes the cost even more attractive. That's me though, and its just my opinion

Forar - My apologies, I meant to say somewhere between 2'x2' to 3'x3' in size (now edited for clarity), not 2-3 square feet. I'm just saying that in the video he's showing $1500 worth of terrain for the coverage shown, so that's pretty steep

I also heavily backed their caverns campaign, so I'm a fan just saw much more value there for me personally, and think this product in particular does not scale to wargamers as well.

Uh, Mc1? Perhaps I was a bit hyperbolic for comedic effect, but I was more talking about the sewers folks than anything there. You seem to be reading a bit much into my post.

And it's even funnier that yours ends about it just being, like, your opinion, maaaan. Apparently my opinion is somehow worthy of critique and yours is beyond such indignities. ;-)

Joking aside, hey, if some well funded Wargamers want to drop a couple grand on the campaign, more power to them! Their money spends and earns stretch goals as well as anyone else's.

However, given how far behind they've been in communications over the last 3 weeks (eternally beind on SG info, promises of pics that took weeks, etc), I don't think it's unreasonable to be a bit concerned when they take a sudden directional change as they approach the end. They are admittedly a small team with limited resources, and they've piled simply ungodly amounts onto their plates.

But tonight they finally dropped the charade and things are indeed looking up.

I don't know where you get that I don't accept critique. If you don't agree, that's your right. Sounds to me like you just don't like someone commenting on your opinion based on the tone of your post ("maaan"). But lets not degenerate further, no need for smarmy comments. I didn't get any comedic undertones earlier, but hey, add a few more winks and smiles and I just might catch on now.

So, to continue the, hopefully, constructive conversation, I don't agree that a wargamer would need to drop a few G's to get in on this KS. A few buildings and some stretch of street would do just fine, and that would fall far short in investment. A wargamer just needs a few choice pieces of terrain. My point is that there are elements in this KS that can easily perform double duty. I can see a few buildings from the Hamlet level doing quite nicely on a basic WHFB board, or for Bolt Action, or for Saga. I'm sure there are other examples that are close in scale and period that could make several levels worthwhile on top of the natural rpg usage. The Ruins are a fantastic add-on, along with the streets/alleys, and I can see tons of uses in games I play. I think to get in for rpg purposes would require far more investment to get the all the options than would an rpg'er who also sometimes wargames. Just more tiles needed and more variety. Either way, I also agree with you that they are backloading this heavily. I think its been a pretty good gradual increase, but I also think the numbers that last few weeks slowed, and that had likely lagged the big announcements. I know for certain they had planned several announcements and didn't see them till recently so I'm guessing that is the reason. Again, I've always felt this KS is a great value, but its apparent for different reasons. I only wish I could have gotten a few more from my groups to dive in collectively to average down the cost further.

As far as the size of the team, I hadn't thought about that. It may not matter, but you do propose a reasonably point. Since they've never failed to meet any commitments I can't imagine it would be of concern, but perhaps that has had an impact on how they've unfolded the KS. I'm a fan and I liked what they unveiled tonight a great deal. It would have been great to see it earlier, but hey, I bet there's lots of stuff we aren't seeing atm because they didn't hit those levels (yet). However small the group, this is three successful KS's and I look forward to the next one!

O.o

Anyway, sounds like they had technical difficulties with the livestream from last night, but it sounds like there's plenty of awesome stuff lined up.

I'm glad they listened to the smaller backer tiers about enhancing what we have without breaking the bank. That mini door/window/wall pack really seems to round out a Hamlet or Village nicely, at least in terms of increasing the number of potential builds and adding a little variety cost effectively.

Just passed 1.675m this morning with ~36 hours left to go, and the next goal is at 1.7m, though I don't know anything about this 'mystery mini grab bag'. As great as it is that they communicate with the backers, there's a lot of info that doesn't seem to get shared with everyone efficiently. I'd hoped they might throw out an update with the contents of the livestream in bullet point form for those of us that couldn't watch.

While the total keeps going up, interestingly the painted Empire level backers number has gone down a bit. I wonder if that's indicative of some folks who dropped down to the Capital to be able to better afford some of the simply massive number of add on options out there?

Here's to hoping for a strong finish.

Down to the wire and I still don’t know what approach I should take here. I backed KS1 to the tune of 5 unpainted sets (still working on them!) and KS2 for 3 PAINTED sets (let it never be said I don’t learn a lesson). Here: I have no idea. I’m currently at “Village” (the 3 set level, painted), but I’m leaning towards switching to the dedicated sewer level.

In KS1 and KS2, the various stretch goals essentially made backing a no-brainer – the value was ridiculous. This time around, the paucity of stretch goal additions is making it a much more difficult sell. Obviously, it’s due to the cost of this new system. But if the base pledges were even getting a few of the pieces that are being shunted off to the ENDLESS add-on packs, this would be a much easier decision. I feel like in KS1 and 2, that would have happened. But nope, everything here goes into a paid-add on. Throw us an offset window, an alternate door, a gable, something!

If I could just back for a few sets (and maybe an add-on or two, like I did in the previous Kickstarters), and feel like I had a representative range of pieces, I would go for it instantly. But here I feel like I would only get a fraction of the whole; you really need a bunch of the add-on packs to get decent variety and mileage out of the system.

And that’s leaving aside roads! I’d be all about the roads, but holy geez they are not cheap. I was ready to go in big with this KS, but “going in big” increasing looks like $1000! Or more!

So…maybe just the sewer set and call it a day.

I'm currently at a fairly high backing level...but this forum is letting reason sink in again! Haha. I really like the sewers, and the modularity of the buildings, but the system itself may just be too fiddly for an entire city setup. A few buildings would probably suffice for populating a table, mixed in with other buildings I have, but I guess if I were to make a manor/dungeon type of build I wouldn't need what something like the Empire level provides. 3-5 sets would be more than enough. (A capitol pledge, with 2 of each roof set = $500 unpainted, this nets you 13 basic buildings.>$40 a building is not completely unreasonable given their durability and modularity) The streets look great in pics, but again, how fiddly will they be ultimately. Even for rpgs...seems like a lot of hassle.

Can anyone here tell me how durable the Tabletop world buildings are? I saw the pics a while back, gorgeous, but some of the resin seems kind of thin.

They finally dropped the hammer. Yes, 1.8m to 2m are either add ons or a PDF, which not everyone will care about/for, but that 2m piece is an LED lit stand for a figure, which seems like it'd be awesome, especially for the Shadows of Brimstone games I've been running with Dungeon/Cavern tiles to flesh them out.

Currently in for a Hamlet (the shipping is fine, but the shipping plus the exchange is pretty nasty). Might grab the Monster Sewers and starter Doors/Window pack that fleshes out the Hamlet just how I want it to.

Current list, plus there is a metric gakton of add ons to mess with.

Turns out I'm actually getting money back on my tax return instead of owing as I originally expected, so, uh, ignore all that nonsense I was talking earlier. Tiny houses here I come!

More than half a miillion in the last day... Looks like geeks have more spending money than we realized. I don't think anybody saw this thing ending as strong as it did. Next year is Castles, so it will be even MORE expensive. I'm going to start saving in July, I guess.

At this rate, KS10 will like 400 backers each putting in 10k.

It'll make piles of money on the few people who can actually afford to participate.

But kidding aside, those final goals were pretty amazing. Their shortest campaign and their highest tally. Honestly, with the 'waffling' in the middle, I wouldn't mind even shorter ones.

Yes, yes, they do need time for the word to get out, and their interaction with the community does mean they want some time to be able to ponder and adjust things if the demand is there and reasonable, but a week of huge cash, two weeks of middling/waffling/struggling to keep interest/enthusiasm rolling followed by 4 days of insanity... seems like we can trim a little fat from the middle still.

Not every day will be 100k+, but let's be real, at this point for KS4, we'll likely see 1k+ backers on the first day, a ton of waffling and a giant flurry at the end again once people check back in with the 48 hour notice.

Oh, you're right, that's an interesting trend!

First campaign: 5,398 backers, 1.91M
Second campaign: 3,950 backers, 2.14M
Third campaign: 2,719 backers, 2.36M

So, just about half the backers of their first campaign in this third one... but nearly half a million more raised from those backers

I'm sorta scratching my head on the "more money from fewer customers" model, but it's not an uncommon one in the hobby.

At the least, DF has, imo, made it easier for smaller companies to offer terrain. KS's "not a store" model of a limited time sales window followed by a period of no sales whatsoever means another creator can step in an offer a "similar but different" product to fulfill any existing demand.

Wondering if Battle Systems will be offering a cardboard village set... .

ced1106 wrote:
Wondering if Battle Systems will be offering a cardboard village set... .

If they did a modern city/suburbs project I'd be all over it.

~iPaint

I was in and then reason got me out. If I'm going to spend that kind of money, I'll go for Tabletop World buildings. I own just about all of their product line and feel they're the best on the market. I can't wait for them to manufacture a castle.

I'm glad the stretch goals started rounding out, and that smaller door/wall/window expansion really fleshes out Hamlets/Villages nicely and cost effectively.

I can't wait to set up the Sewers tiles with those lit Braziers. That is going to be cinematic as feth.

Only thing I'm waffling on is the bridge, but with a fairly solid tax return that just came in, I think I might top off with one of those. Used regularly or not, I can probably go with a dungeon tile level or two along with a couple of stone ones for a pretty thrilling set piece.

The more I acquire and toy with DF tiles, the more I'm thinking I really need to make a D&D group at some point. Pull out the books I haven't used in a few years and get things going again.

Well that was a fun, fairly expensive ride. I dropped my pledge amount considerably, but still stayed in at a decent level to get a lot of variety.
I think in terms of purely making a city exterior, Tabletop World buildings would be ideal. You could technically spend less, and have MUCH better looking terrain....
However, with DF's system, those setups are so modular! One could have large buildings, small buildings, towers, etc etc. I think ultimately my "city" would be a mix of buildings I own for wargaming and large street encounters if I were to rpg, but interiors and portable setups would likely be DF only.
I could have a really massive interior rpg event with all of the floors and walls they give...that's something those resin buildings don't quite offer. (Maybe the Mansion...but its still way limited to what one could do with the DF stuff.) I think soon I may order a few Tabletop World buildings though, I'm really impressed with their style!

I did get the bridge, with the idea that I could use some plastic craft mesh to make a portcullis, and dremel out a slot on the bridge floor so it drops through. I asked DF to consider this instead of the crappy trap door idea but they disregarded the suggestion.

 Yodhrin wrote:
[quote=Pete Melvin 639084
32 Euros ex-VAT:



28.5 Euros ex-VAT:

If anyone knows of any guides or tips to achieve this look I would be most greatful I am partucularly interested in the stonework as I have some old Forgeworld terrain I got of ebay to paint up.

Well, if you're going for tabletop, underpainting in various greys as a prep for a Secret Weapon Stone wash can help.

I think a whiter underpaint and further highlighting will help get a lighter stone color.

The brown looks like a wash, maybe multiple layers on primer or highlights of white added to brown?

ced1106 wrote:
Well, if you're going for tabletop, underpainting in various greys as a prep for a Secret Weapon Stone wash can help.

I think a whiter underpaint and further highlighting will help get a lighter stone color.

The brown looks like a wash, maybe multiple layers on primer or highlights of white added to brown?

Spoiler:

Thanks ill have to experiment just trying to save myself some work... is that second picture after the secret weapon wash? If anyone else has any input i would appreciate it.

Yep! The first pic are the paints, the second the wash. That's some fine wash!

Here's what I did with SW wash on top of brown paint.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1192933/newbie-project-crates-barrels-and-other-wooden-dun

Results are darker than what you're looking for, so I'd first try multiple washes on white primer. You can always paint or glaze on top of it, making the wash act more like a shade, I think.

ced1106 wrote:
Yep! The first pic are the paints, the second the wash. That's some fine wash!

Here's what I did with SW wash on top of brown paint.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1192933/newbie-project-crates-barrels-and-other-wooden-dun

Results are darker than what you're looking for, so I'd first try multiple washes on white primer. You can always paint or glaze on top of it, making the wash act more like a shade, I think.

That is some wash! thanks for sharing.

For those that don't pay much attention to KS/updates, the pledge manager may go live next week, and last I heard during the campaign, was estimated to remain active for ~3 weeks.

Just a heads up for those watching their budgets and pondering picking up a few extra things.

FYI, the Pledge Manager has gone live, and invites are being rolled out this week.

3 new add on packs have been included; window dressing, wicked city accessories, and double posts.