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 Looky Likey wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:


The issue is NOT that they are not going to radically alter our future (THEY DEFINITELY WILL).

The issue is that people are expecting this to occur sooner than is realistic.

Can you put a time period on that as I don't think we are that far apart in our timeframe here?

I consider us at the stage just before dot matrix printing on paper became cheap enough to do at home with our current, available 3D printing, its slow, lacks fine detail and you have fiddly ribbons to change. We've a long way to go till we get to the equiv quality of the cheap home laser printers for a similar price point but with the money that new hardware will generate I think we will see that sector innovate quicker than it did in the home on paper printing market. Companies have a better understanding now of how to market and develop rapidly improving tech product than they did 30 years ago. You only have to look at the rapid pace of smartphone development and contrast that to the much slower rate of development of dumb phones. There is so much money to be made selling hardware to a brand new, global, marketplace, this will be like the first gen smartphone or tablet sales.

I'm expecting for the hobby market dot matrix equiv 3d printers to be available within 2 years, 5 years from now for inkjet equiv, then 8 for laser printer quality.

RE availability of recasters, they are still out there but as GW have gotten sneaky with uncovering them, they are hiding in plain sight now as GW keeps getting their paypal accounts shut down. Its made the whole process as a buyer much more risky as you do not have the same levels of protection as you would buying via a proper webshop against a business transaction in paypal. I think GW know that they can't shut it down but they just want to make it hard enough that the majority do not bother.

See....

I have been working with Rapid Prototyping (which includes 3D printing) for the last 13 - 15 years.

And I don't see the availability of the 3D printers for home use that produce the kind of quality, or the price that would be usable for at least the next decade.

YES the technology is moving fast, but as new entrants to the market are discovering (such as Carbon3D are discovering with their attempts to scale CLiP technology), it is just not as easy in the market place to provide a product as it is to accomplish in the lab.

They are discovering that 3D printing of the quality people demand is freakishly expensive, and often very slow as well.

In 5 years, we will likely see the price of businesses offering services to do 3D printing of the type and quality we expect in gaming miniatures, but for that same technology to show up in the home will likely be another 10 to 15 years. There are Infrastructure issues at play, as well, in the delivering of the amounts of print materials that would be required for that sort of At Home production.

As I have pointed out elsewhere, the issue isn't so much in the ability to develop advanced 3D technologies, but rather in the way our society uses them.

There was an obvious need for home printers.

There is a much less obvious need for home 3D printers, at the present. It is just too easy to provide the goods such a device might produce elsewhere (not to mention at a fraction of the cost). The cheap 3D printing medium used by printers such as the Maker-Bot is still fairly expensive, compared to that same amount of material found in an industrial production facility (what costs 50¢ to print on a maker-bot costs .005¢ in materials at a manufacturing facility, with equivalent lower costs in electricity to produce it, as well as delivering it to market).

We are far more likely to see FedEx/Kinkos (who are already beginning to set up a competition for Shapeways) begin offering high-quality 3D printing services than we are to see high-quality at home 3D printers.

Most people just don't need things like machine mills and lathes, which is what these products are essentially replacing.

MB

 Looky Likey wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:


The issue is NOT that they are not going to radically alter our future (THEY DEFINITELY WILL).

The issue is that people are expecting this to occur sooner than is realistic.

Can you put a time period on that as I don't think we are that far apart in our timeframe here?

I consider us at the stage just before dot matrix printing on paper became cheap enough to do at home with our current, available 3D printing, its slow, lacks fine detail and you have fiddly ribbons to change. We've a long way to go till we get to the equiv quality of the cheap home laser printers for a similar price point but with the money that new hardware will generate I think we will see that sector innovate quicker than it did in the home on paper printing market. Companies have a better understanding now of how to market and develop rapidly improving tech product than they did 30 years ago. You only have to look at the rapid pace of smartphone development and contrast that to the much slower rate of development of dumb phones. There is so much money to be made selling hardware to a brand new, global, marketplace, this will be like the first gen smartphone or tablet sales.

I'm expecting for the hobby market dot matrix equiv 3d printers to be available within 2 years, 5 years from now for inkjet equiv, then 8 for laser printer quality.

The issue with 3D printing seems to be that very little of things that you actually want are printable at home.
Each thing you want to print requires a different spool of material. For most materials, this requires you to also have different colours of each spool of material. Very quickly this adds up to a prohibitive amount of simply storage room, and you still can't print a whole host of materials. For the majority of people, storing everything that they need to print something new will become far more time consuming and expensive than simply driving to the store to get it.
For the things that you CAN print with limited cheap materials (eg, ABS plastic), production of those items is a solved problem already. A plastic fork might take an hour to print, yet you can buy 50 plastic forks for $1 and 10 minutes of your time.
Printers might progress to the level that specialised tools are at today: think something like a mitre saw. Some people will have a use for them, they won't be super uncommon - and you'll be able to find them in some stores - but they're not going to be one-in-every-house like inkjet printers.

EDIT: BeAfraid says it better

I've addressed the issue of a 3D printer that can do everything (car parts, food, etc.) vs. what I'm talking about, a 3D printer that can print a 28mm scale figure in an earlier post. The former is many decades away, the latter we are very close to, this is the sort of output you can get from a makerbot (£3k for a high end model) already:


while its far from a high quality model it is considerably better than what people are suggesting is currently possible out of an affordable home printer. Yes difficult and time consuming to make that one model as I mentioned earlier we are still at the pre dot matrix level when it comes to printing a 28mm model. Even applying a modular level to the build (similar to GWs plastics approach) we can get big improvments to the quality of the figure, obviously this will increase the printing time and as that is very slow at present it going to be painful but I'm not expecting this to last more than a few years. There is a world of difference between printing biotech or car parts to what we need for 28mm plastics.

I'm in complete agreement that for large scale projects, such as a 2k points army, you'll use a service as at first it'll be considerably quicker then later on it will be considerably cheaper than doing the printing yourself.

Well, this ain't too bad for 3D...!

EDIT: You might want to look at the CMON MAS bases before looking at this one..



Mebbe 3D printing or some 3D printing will be like Kinko's. We're actually not at the point with *2D* printing where I can print a 320-page rulebook with nice binding and a cover at my home *but* a nearby shop can do it for me.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

the_trooper wrote:
Also, Metallica heavily benefited from piracy in their early years for exposure and Lars is a hypocrite.

Uh... Metallica were around for nearly 20 years before internet piracy was even a thing. And they were pretty well exposed long before they showed up on Napster.

But bootleg tapes of their concerts were passed around the metal community, increasing their exposure. Piracy existed before the internet, it was just physical.

Many of those recordings are now on Metallicas official website, too, available to download for free (including one recording from when Dave Mustaine was still lead guitarist, which is cool).

If people made bootleg tapes that benefitted Metallica it was still a copyright violation, as it was done without their permission, and they could not prevent such tapes from being circulated and people listening to them.

The tapes now held on their website legally are their property since they were made without permission in the first place, in other words, the copyright in those performances was always Metallica's.

Even if Metallica are in your view hypocritical about the issue, it doesn't give you the legal or moral right to make copies. It would just bring you down to their level.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

 RivenSkull wrote:
People cared. That's why there was that FBI piracy warning on VHS tapes at the start of the tape in the 90's.

For movies, yeah. Not so much for music. Nobody cared if people were running off copies of their friends' cassettes, or were taping songs off the top 40 countdown on the radio. It was only when the internet came along and file sharing became a thing that the music companies suddenly started complaining about it.

Actually there are several countries including Spain and Canada where there is a government levy on blank media (originally tapes, but now SD cards, etc) that was applied to collect money and give it to film and music companies -- effectively taxing all tape users, whether or not their usage was legitimate. This law was also proposed in the UK, but failed because it was unjust to charge a levy on people who used tapes legitimately.

The modern equivalent would be if a country's ISPs had to charge a levy on your data service, and pass that on to the film and music companies.

ced1106 wrote:
Well, this ain't too bad for 3D...!

EDIT: You might want to look at the CMON MAS bases before looking at this one..

Spoiler:

Forge Prints KS: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613044699/forge-prints-hd-dungeon-accessories-and-bases-kit?ref=discovery

$15 gets you 4 bases and free mushrooms!

Mebbe 3D printing or some 3D printing will be like Kinko's. We're actually not at the point with *2D* printing where I can print a 320-page rulebook with nice binding and a cover at my home *but* a nearby shop can do it for me.

EXACTLY!!!

MB

BeAfraid wrote:
EXACTLY!!!

OSH!!! http://3dprintingindustry.com/2015/04/29/lowes-embraces-3d-printing-beginning-with-orchard-supply-hardware/

Enthusiast... business... consumer. Pretty hard to tell which stage the technology is in, sometimes!

The OSH printers are a filament Deposition printer.

They are pretty rough.

MB

Plastic SoB would be nice to have at some point in time. But this is some more wishlisting.

As a reminder, advocating recasting of others' intellectual property is against Dakka's rules... so, while the discussion has been able to remain open for determining where that line is / etc, let's not advocate the casting of things that are very obviously protected (like SOB in this instance). Thanks

 RiTides wrote:
As a reminder, advocating recasting of others' intellectual property is against Dakka's rules... so, while the discussion has been able to remain open for determining where that line is / etc, let's not advocate the casting of things that are very obviously protected (like SOB in this instance). Thanks

Sorry I will change post

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Actually there are several countries including Spain and Canada where there is a government levy on blank media (originally tapes, but now SD cards, etc) that was applied to collect money and give it to film and music companies -- effectively taxing all tape users, whether or not their usage was legitimate. This law was also proposed in the UK, but failed because it was unjust to charge a levy on people who used tapes legitimately.

The modern equivalent would be if a country's ISPs had to charge a levy on your data service, and pass that on to the film and music companies.

Yeah, this levy was also imposed here on blank media for a while (blank CDs and DVDs in the 90s at least) - when the price for blank DVDs was still around the $10 mark (EACH).
I don't think it was ever repealed, but the price on the blank DVD-Rs fell swiftly over the years and now it's probably only netting them cents per pack - less than it costs to administrate it.

Back to the original issue, even if your model feels "funny" it may still be genuine. GW and it's producers have used dozens of resin/plastic materials over the years. Some is soft, some is hard, some smells funny, some of it bends some of it snaps etc etc etc.

Basically, unless you are positive that it's fake (because you are a material specialist and you can identify a fake resin in a laboratory) and you can't live with the idea that GW's stockholders may each lose a thousandth of a cent over this you should just be happy you have a cool model!

Moreover, it's possible the seller doesn't know if it's a real GW or not. I wouldn't be suprised if I had a few considering I mostly buy second hand models.

ive noticed the larger models(Forge world) from FW and recast have the same quality. Or I have a recast that is actually a FW model, I cant tell as both seem to be almost the same and don't feel or weigh different.

 DaKKaLAnce wrote:
ive noticed the larger models(Forge world) from FW and recast have the same quality. Or I have a recast that is actually a FW model, I cant tell as both seem to be almost the same and don't feel or weigh different.

The General qualities of a recast iv found is that its going to be Rougher and more brittle than a FW one. the color can be off too from that light grey to a Dark grey or even yellow. (though iv heard older FW stuff have had different colors)

Also if you cut into it you will smell that delicious gasoline flavor.



As to the quality its probably because the recasters mold doesn't get used as much so still retains most of the detail and shape over time vs more casted items. exactly the same as FW does.