40k 8th ed

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**Wulfmar**

I was left in 6th edition after refusing to change to 7th after only owning the BRB for 6-7 months.

How soon do you guys reckon it will be until 8th comes out?

**Selym**

Peregrine wrote:
What will be next, units that get bonuses if you're playing on your private jet? A random table for resolving what happens when turbulence bumps the models around?

+1 to all dice rolls if daddy runs the country.

**die toten hosen**

Johnnytorrance wrote:
Makumba wrote:
Crevab wrote:
die toten hosen wrote:
. i bring a screaming bell as skaven and have rolled a thirteen in 3 of the five games i have played, essentially winning with a single dice roll.

uuuuh, how do you roll a thirteen on 2d6?

You take fateweaver and he has a rule that lets him set a roll to anything he wants. Win turn 1.

Games not out and its already broken? lol

Roll 2 add the results... sorry i wasnt clear apparently

**Selym**

Wulfmar wrote:
I was left in 6th edition after refusing to change to 7th after only owning the BRB for 6-7 months.

How soon do you guys reckon it will be until 8th comes out?

Next year, next month, who knows.
It could be next week at this rate.

**Peregrine**

Selym wrote:
+1 to all dice rolls if daddy runs the country.

Now there's a great idea. Maybe one of the leader-type heroes could have a special rule where they automatically get to move/shoot/assault first if your parents have a higher government position or military rank than your opponent. Or instead of rolling dice you could inflict a wound for each $100 bill you light on fire. You could even fix the absence of point costs by tying army construction to each player's investments, so if the market goes down while you're playing a game some of your models might switch over to your opponent's control (representing mercenaries being upset about not getting paid).

**e.earnshaw**

If 40k turns into age of sigmar stile rules i will quit or carry on in severnth.

**Selym**

e.earnshaw wrote:
If 40k turns into age of sigmar stile rules i will quit or carry on in severnth.

Join me in 7th brothar.

If the community as a whole just sticks to 7th, and somewhat reduces their purchases from GW after 40k:AoS, they'll probably come around.

Personally, when I hear 8E 40k is on it's way, I will stock up on some units to tide me over for a good while, and then cease purchases until the next edition.

**BrianDavion**

What will be next, units that get bonuses if you're playing on your private jet?

don't be silly. GW doesn't own a aviation firm thus they have no desire to encounrage you to spend your money on a private jet when you could buy the Ultramarines Chapter instead

**Carnage43**

Wulfmar wrote:
I was left in 6th edition after refusing to change to 7th after only owning the BRB for 6-7 months.

How soon do you guys reckon it will be until 8th comes out?

My money (well, not my money, as I'm pretty much done with giving GW money) is on next June. It would follow the 2 year 6th to 7th jump, and would be a full year after Age of Sigmar insanity.

**Peregrine**

BrianDavion wrote:
don't be silly. GW doesn't own a aviation firm thus they have no desire to encounrage you to spend your money on a private jet when you could buy the Ultramarines Chapter instead

Next week: pre-order your Citadel™ FinePlane™, with built-in Citadel™ Realm™ of™ Skulls™ Hobby™ Table™, the perfect way to enjoy all of your favorite Games™ Workshop™ Products™. Reports of major structural problems will be dismissed as "otiose", because Citadel™ FinePlanes™ are built using the best components in the industry.

**SirDonlad**

I got told by my FLGS that his GW rep said that "GW cannot afford to have AoS fail" and reading through what is in there - it will!

What is the Endure Sudden Death rule?

Maybe in 8th edition there will be a telephone number you can ring to pay a small fee to have a GW representative inform your opponent that you have 'officially' won the game?

**SagesStone**

Jimsolo wrote:
Long beards and thanes in the dwarf warscroll. The Masque in the daemons one. It's no joke.

Sigvald's is at least entertaining. Look in a mirror for rerolls, if the reroll is 1 you become enamored by your reflection and he does nothing that phase.

**Runic**

Peregrine wrote:
Runic wrote:
Unless you're a person who is either very young, just starting the miniatures hobby, or in general a person who wants a really simple game that is not even intended to be serious. Which is to whom the game is directed at.

Very young people rarely have the budget for a game like this, and the vast majority of people who want silly "beer and pretzels" games want cheap "beer and pretzels" games. For example, Munchkin is simple and silly and great for laughing at the absurdity of the gaming hobby. It also costs $20, and can be played right out of the box without any assembly or painting or negotiating what forces everyone will bring. GW, on the other hand, is charging as much money as serious wargames for a pile of garbage that makes Munchkin look like a high-level tournament game.

But it has been discussed in another thread that basically even this is better for GW as a company than WHFB was, as it was generating only 15% of their sales.

And AoS is likely to generate even less. People will buy the models to use for non-AoS purposes, but I'd be very surprised if AoS even matches WHFB's player count.

The target audience of this game is broader than that of Warhammer 40,000 - that is an undeniable fact.

You must have a strange definition of "undeniable" since there's a very obvious denial available: the fact that GW has published a game that doesn't appeal to gamers. Serious players don't want such a hilariously terrible game, and the people who might be interested in a quick "screw around while drinking" game don't want to pay GW's prices to play it. So what exactly is this broad target audience you have in mind? Parents of young children who just happen to also be millionaires? What will be next, units that get bonuses if you're playing on your private jet? A random table for resolving what happens when turbulence bumps the models around?

There's no evidence of people wanting a non-serious game not being willing to pay 100 euros or equiv for it. Many good boardgames can cost that much actually, without them being a competitive wargame or anything near it. Next to that, to new players or new wargamers AoS could seem way more complicated than playing Uno, even if it looks simple and stupid to veterans and wargamers who are used to the more complicated games. All you're going on is basically what is being said on this forum. A forum consisting mostly of wargamers. The target audience of AoS is larger than that of WH40K, whether you accept it or not.

If it lures said audience or is successfull is another thing entirely, I have a vibe it won't. In essence, you can aim at a target the size of a mountain. Missing it doesn't change it being the target, and it being broader than an angry veteran wargaming nerd at it's root. GW has stated this themselves, they are aiming to lure new wargamers into the hobby. There are more non-wargamers on this planet than there are wargamers, the target audience is therefore broader than that of a game that has one of he highest entry costs out of any game, and some of the most complicated rules in existence, period.

**Selym**

Runic, fun & silly games, while they can be good, and while some people /do/ spend more than £20//$20, they're more of an impulse buy.
i.e "That looks like a laugh, hey guys, let's do that one evening!"

*two games later*

"Eh, the novelty's worn off now, but it was a blast! Maybe we'll dig this out of storage in a couple of years when we're drunk."

Wargaming on the scale of WHFB or 40k looks a lot more like a 150 step guide into selling your soul to Satan for a fictional universe.

"So that big tank will win me games, yeah? It costs HOW MUCH!? £85. Erm... Well, what about that £20 box of troops? And that'll take me how many hours to prepare?"

**Runic**

Selym wrote:
Runic, fun & silly games, while they can be good, and while some people /do/ spend more than £20//$20, they're more of an impulse buy.
i.e "That looks like a laugh, hey guys, let's do that one evening!"

*two games later*

"Eh, the novelty's worn off now, but it was a blast! Maybe we'll dig this out of storage in a couple of years when we're drunk."

Wargaming on the scale of WHFB or 40k looks a lot more like a 150 step guide into selling your soul to Satan for a fictional universe.

"So that big tank will win me games, yeah? It costs HOW MUCH!? £85. Erm... Well, what about that £20 box of troops? And that'll take me how many hours to prepare?"

Yeah, ofcourse.

I'm not talking about if GW's target audience makes any sense when you factor in the cost. It is irrelevant to the fact the games target audience is broader even if it turns out to be a failure. You decide a products target audience before you publish it most of the time.

Then again, I have a feeling that AoS Serious Edition is on it's way.

**Selym**

Runic wrote:

Yeah, ofcourse.

I'm not sure what that response means.

**darkcloak**

Ya know... If GW wanted to say screw you to overly serious players then maybe they could have just said something akin to that in the rulebook and left out the charades?

I'm not sure how these beard rules are supposed to be anything but a stiff middle finger to anyone with an old army.

Also, I'm pretty darn sure if AoS is intended for kids, they didn't need to scrap everything dedicated gamers enjoyed. Plus didn't several rumour mongers say that "oldhammer" would remain untouched? That AoS was a new thing and had nothing to do with FB?

Liars.

I hope this whole thing blows over quickly.

**Anpu42**

My Friends and I have been looking over the AoS rules set and talking about what if 40k went that route. I don't think it would be the end of the world. It looks like it would play faster than the current game. It would also be a good game for one to enter into 40k with.
Think about using an expanded 'Space Hulk' on the table top, at least that is what we compared it to.

**saithor**

Selym wrote:
e.earnshaw wrote:
If 40k turns into age of sigmar stile rules i will quit or carry on in severnth.

Join me in 7th brothar.

If the community as a whole just sticks to 7th, and somewhat reduces their purchases from GW after 40k:AoS, they'll probably come around.

Personally, when I hear 8E 40k is on it's way, I will stock up on some units to tide me over for a good while, and then cease purchases until the next edition.

I don't have any money to buy minis with anyway, so I'm good for weathering the storm. Serously, AOS is a balance-ignoring, unique-sucking, child friendly game. I pity the parent who buys this for their ten year old and then the child starts looking at the prevous editions.

**Stormonu**

Selym wrote:
e.earnshaw wrote:
If 40k turns into age of sigmar stile rules i will quit or carry on in severnth.

Join me in 7th brothar.

If the community as a whole just sticks to 7th, and somewhat reduces their purchases from GW after 40k:AoS, they'll probably come around.

Personally, when I hear 8E 40k is on it's way, I will stock up on some units to tide me over for a good while, and then cease purchases until the next edition.

You won't hear it from GW until after someone's scanned the WD they got the Thursday before its release.

**Skriker**

Jimsolo wrote:
If they did Age of the Emperor or whatever, I would not play it. I'd keep playing the last edition of 40k.

Given I still don't play 7th, I think I'm covered.

**Jambles**

Through the lens of video games especially, it seems clear that consumers - especially younger consumers (GET OFF MY LAWN) - just don't care about the same things we do. They WILL buy in to the heavily-marketed, fancy new thing on the shelf. Forget that it's half-finished or functionally broken.

Age of Sigmar will sell very well, and I'm sure will gather a non-insignificant following. And then we'll be next.

Call me a doomsayer, but all the signs I can see point to this being the future of the hobby for GW products.

**Skriker**

darkcloak wrote:
Ya know... If GW wanted to say screw you to overly serious players then maybe they could have just said something akin to that in the rulebook and left out the charades?

I'm not sure how these beard rules are supposed to be anything but a stiff middle finger to anyone with an old army.

Also, I'm pretty darn sure if AoS is intended for kids, they didn't need to scrap everything dedicated gamers enjoyed. Plus didn't several rumour mongers say that "oldhammer" would remain untouched? That AoS was a new thing and had nothing to do with FB?

Liars.

I hope this whole thing blows over quickly.

Without gutting and destroy WHFB they could have made a Warhammer Lite game that could be entry level to get others hooked and then work to move them to the full game after a while. Instead they've kicked all current fantasy players in the balls in the hopes of getting some new customers instead. Smh

Edited for a follow up question: If their goal is to draw in a whole bunch of new players from a broader market, exactly how are they planning to do that? They have all but killed their relationship with most privately owned game stores anymore and they do all of their advertising on their own website and in their house organ magazines. So how is word getting out to those outside that circle? Might be easier in the UK since GW's stores are more ubiquitous there, but in the US a large majority of the remaining stores are single worker operations stuck in low traffic strip malls off the beaten path to save on rent and staff costs. Not going to reach a much broader audience that way. When you add in the fact that they announce a new product the week before it is released their marketing just sucks, and they hope a completely new incarnation of the game, which basically shafts existing players of the game will somehow take off and incorporate a whole new segment of the market? Is it supposed to happen magically?

**docdoom77**

The core rules and the Warscrolls would be pretty ideal for 40k (with some tweaks). I'd love to see a simpler, more stream-lined game with great mechanics for diminishing returns on powerful creatures.

The problem is the lack of points or any other balancing mechanics. If you took a similar base rules set, but added a good point system and some army building restrictions, I could totally get behind 40k adopting a similar base rules set.

**Icculus**

die toten hosen wrote:
Johnnytorrance wrote:
Makumba wrote:
Crevab wrote:
die toten hosen wrote:
. i bring a screaming bell as skaven and have rolled a thirteen in 3 of the five games i have played, essentially winning with a single dice roll.

uuuuh, how do you roll a thirteen on 2d6?

You take fateweaver and he has a rule that lets him set a roll to anything he wants. Win turn 1.

Games not out and its already broken? lol

Roll 2 add the results... sorry i wasnt clear apparently

Were you rolling d12s? max you can get on 2d6 is 12. So i think someone is fabricating their story about winning 3 out of 5 games with the bell.

**Selym**

Skriker wrote:
Might be easier in the UK since GW's stores are more ubiquitous there,

You'd think so, but GW stores are practically invisible to all, unless you've been told about them. One of the closest GW stores to me is situated on a highstreet, but off through a short alleyway next to a comic book store. The two stores almost never see new people, unless those new people were introduced to such things by someone they know.
Another GW store near me is right out in the open, but with a small sign, and is sandwiched between a bunch of other, more obvious stores. Unless you know what you're looking for, a GW store front is almost invisible.

**Formosa**

Aos rules would kill 40k, by extention gw and forge world would colapse from the sheer wave of people leaving the hobby.

**jokerkd**

Icculus wrote:
die toten hosen wrote:
Johnnytorrance wrote:
Makumba wrote:
Crevab wrote:
die toten hosen wrote:
. i bring a screaming bell as skaven and have rolled a thirteen in 3 of the five games i have played, essentially winning with a single dice roll.

uuuuh, how do you roll a thirteen on 2d6?

You take fateweaver and he has a rule that lets him set a roll to anything he wants. Win turn 1.

Games not out and its already broken? lol

Roll 2 add the results... sorry i wasnt clear apparently

Were you rolling d12s? max you can get on 2d6 is 12. So i think someone is fabricating their story about winning 3 out of 5 games with the bell.

His rule allows you to pick any result. Not any side of the dice.

There is a result numbered 13 on the screaming bell chart. He can literally just pick that result.

I dont know how anyone can only win 3 of 5 games with it. It is literally done in the first turn and can be deployed so nothing can hurt it

EDIT:

I was assuming fateweaver being involved. No idea what toter hosen is talking about

**Psienesis**

I think balance would be fairly easy to maintain. You look at your army, look at the other guy's army and go "yeah, ok, let's play" or "nah, feth that. I have ten guys and a truck, you have 10 tanks, six planes, four giant robots and a squig stuffed into Logan's chariot. Feth you."

**techsoldaten**

I think GW will move the rules for 40k to an AOS model, but for different reasons.

New releases are a vision statement of sorts. It's a company saying now see what we can do.

AOS rules are very basic. There's a lack of the thematic vision seen in previous GW releases. It's not that they are actually bad, things like the fateweaver bell trick will go away at some point. It's that they are immature and need time to come together.

(For that matter, the warscrolls are very basic. They don't offer enough fluff to capture someone's imagination. This is not going to ignite the passions of hordes of nerds the way books used to.)

But the game does speak to the level of sophistication of the company. GW will move in this direction because this is what GW is capable of these days. If they were capable of something more polished and sophisticated, we would see it in AOS.

There's no reason to assume the company is capable of doing better. 40k may have been a better system at some point, but the balance issues are way out of control and it takes too long to correct them. CSM / Ork / Nid / SOB / AM players are always at a disadvantage and alienating large portions of your player base does not bode well.

I think 40k will move to AOS style rules because that's the level GW can achieve.