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Do you think the boardgames that GW produces are helping not only their bottomline, but also helping to expand the gaming community as a whole by providing more options?
Yes.
No.

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Chicago

It's important to remember that the Heroquest, Space Crusade and Battlemasters games that many folks recall as entry's into GW were not produced and distributed by GW. They had assistance from GW, but they were from Milton Bradley and as others have pointed out they had MB's distribution network.

As most folks have been ignoring, FFG is producing GW boardgames and they seem to be selling well. Of course FFG"s distribution network is almost entirely game stores so while more folks will see them the audience far more limited than the old Milton Bradley games.

With GW branching out into more locations with "Vedros" as an easy entry into 40k, I think there is even less liklyhood of seeing these new games being used as entry points for new players.

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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

Some great points on both sides (at least on page one, I'll go back and read the other pages after I type).

I love the fact that new games are coming out that have models that can be incorporated into Warhammer. I loved 3rd edition Talisman because it had actual Warhammer minis. 4th edition talisman...I own it, but I've never played it. 3rd wins from the minis. Space Hulk-fun game, loved playing it and turned the Termies into WH40k models after I stopped. I'm getting Silver Tower both because it looks like a fun co-op board game that I can get my roommates to play, and I have a Daemon army and can utilize the Gaunt Summoner, the Ogroid makes for an awesome Tzeentch Prince, and the horrors will fit in the army well. I also have friends who want to play fantasy 6th Ed, so I now have the previously unsculpted Tzaangors. Total win, in my book.

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 Kilkrazy wrote:
Kickstarters and Collector's editions are not the general board games market.

Silver Tower isn't a Kickstarter or Collector's edition.
They are boutique games, targeting the more hardcore board game audience. I mean, the average board gamer just buys Monopoly from the local big box store. The people who buy Arcadia Quest: Inferno are not the general board game market - and it had 8,000 pledges. I'm not sure how much one of those types of games generally sells over a lifetime, but I'd wager that those 8,000 pledges represent the majority of purchases. Dark Souls has 31,178 backers - probably more than Super Dungeon Explore has sold in its lifetime by half.

According to some threads on Board Game Geek, the majority of games sell less than 1,000 copies, though games that win prestigious awards can sell 300,000 copies. A minimal print run using a Chinese company is usually 2,500. So we aren't talking about millions of copies sold, and I have no doubt that Silver Tower can beat the average on just existing GW customers alone.

Silver Tower is just another example, whose main distinguishing feature for the average person is that it won't be on sale in normal outlets and costs 50% more.
Actually, the Warhammer Quest name is the main distinguishing feature, and the reason why board gamers are interested in Silver Tower when they weren't in any other GW product. Hero Quest and its spin offs have achieved near mythical status in board gaming, and people have been asking for reprints and updates for decades.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We wrote:
The base cost of the game is what I listed. The Average kickstarter pledge being $200 is because the user pledged more to get extra content. That $200 came with a lot more than the base game and a lot more than the Silver Tower base game. Not comparable at all.
My point is simply that people are willing to pay more than $100 for board games on a regular basis. Whether that is because Kickstarter games represent a better value or not, my point that $150 is not egregiously overpriced for what the market can and will pay for board games.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/05/22 15:26:22


 
   
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It's certainly good that GW are diversifying and producing board games again. However I do wish GW would give us more notice they where coming out. Finding £100 on two weeks notice isn't something many hobbists can do. I pre ordered the new Imperial Assault expansion ( and figure packs) a week before they announced Silver Tower so my monthly hobby budget is already allocated. Had I known about Silver Tower I might have postponed Bespin Gambit till next month but FFG tell their customers their plans in advance so they got my money.

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Canada

For some reason, I would want to compare the production value of a "Zombicide" box with the new GW game boxes.
I look at that as the target type of game for casual gamers "looking for more".
Heck, my Robotech starter box is about $100 but I cannot help thinking the more "involved" model assembly would scare off new players like with RRT unlike Zombicide.
Though the Imperial Knight "game" box is "cheap" for getting IK's.

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 LuciusAR wrote:
It's certainly good that GW are diversifying and producing board games again. However I do wish GW would give us more notice they where coming out. Finding £100 on two weeks notice isn't something many hobbists can do. I pre ordered the new Imperial Assault expansion ( and figure packs) a week before they announced Silver Tower so my monthly hobby budget is already allocated. Had I known about Silver Tower I might have postponed Bespin Gambit till next month but FFG tell their customers their plans in advance so they got my money.
Seconded! I do my budgeting at the beginning of the month, so if they release the game in the second half of the month with no warning, I'm just not going to find money for it. I was only able to get it this month because I had to cancel a pre-order that never shipped (something weird is going on with Cool Stuff Inc and Ninja All Stars).

Of course, you don't have to buy things when they first come out... but... nah. That's silly.
   
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Mississippi

There was a time GW made board games without miniatures - there's a couple that exist that simply had counters and the like. Perhaps they should consider a game or two in that arena; perhaps as a "sideboard" for a 40K or AoS/Warhammer combat (sort of like Mighty Empires, but without plastic or really cheap plastic).

Also, for those saying GW isn't comparable to KS offerings - maybe GW should get a clue and offer some of their games via kickstarter to make their pricing competitive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/22 19:08:47


It never ends well 
   
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Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Silver Tower is a hot mess, I saw a copy yesterday. Awesome miniatures? no, overly busy miniatures, when arrayed together, even standing up, it was like looking at a bowl of spaghetti and trying to make sense of the worms.
Though I did like the spellbook familiar.

Everything has a wierd unrelateable name. tied to a backstory nobody cases about.

GW used to make excellent boardgames like Space Hulk, Talisman and old Warhammer Quest. I voted yes to the thread, but in their current form the boardgames do nothing for the game.

Space Hulk sold like hot cakes because they didn't feth it up, and the current generation of designers have a false idea of the popularity of their trade.

There is a massive market for miniatures boardgames, but they have to be relatable, this isnt.

















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My wife will play Space Hulk with me. I'm trying to get my sister to relinquish the copy of Heroquest she pilfered from our mother's house. In our world of instant gratification smaller scale games will probably sell better, but I'm no market expert.
   
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Having thought over this subject a bit more, what would tell me that GW "gets it" is if they did produce a board game with no miniatures. Right now, what they are doing tells me is that they are using the board games as an afterthought to delivering miniatures.

If they want to do a board game that is more than a miniatures product delivery method, take the miniatures out of the game and let it stand on its gameplay - then we can see how many copies (won't) sell and how well GW's rules writing can stand without being propped up with pretty toy soldiers.

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Greece

My question to those who voted yes is how is GW expanding the gaming community with their recent boardgames?
   
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Somewhere in south-central England.

I haven't voted.

I reckon the board games, RPG and historicals communities have been doing fine without GW. There's no evidence that GW's dramatic decline of the past 15 years has paralleled a decline in the choice and availability of non-GW games. If anything the opposite is the case.

From that viewpoint GW might do themselves some good by accessing an expanded market of non-GW players who could be got to buy and play some GW themed boxed games. They need to get the right balance of presentation, fluff, type of contents, price and retail outlets -- the "marketing" in the widest sense. I said in my first post in this thread that GW need to concentrate on making a good game, and worry later about whether it will recruit people into Warhammer.

There are certainly plenty of GW players who would like good GW themed board games. The success of Space Hulk and the anticipation for Blood Bowl proves that. However these people are probably veterans.

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 Stormonu wrote:
Having thought over this subject a bit more, what would tell me that GW "gets it" is if they did produce a board game with no miniatures. Right now, what they are doing tells me is that they are using the board games as an afterthought to delivering miniatures.

If they want to do a board game that is more than a miniatures product delivery method, take the miniatures out of the game and let it stand on its gameplay - then we can see how many copies (won't) sell and how well GW's rules writing can stand without being propped up with pretty toy soldiers.


Chainsaw Warrior was an awesome board game, solo (for some reason) and miniatureless.
That's a board game in my eyes.
These new miniature fests aren't.
They're a box of miniatures with an afterthought of other stuff jammed in there.
Dreadfleet I will say had some creativity, hence why I bought it, but it's too complicated in some areas to be of much interest to my non wargaming friends.

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Citadel did an optional set of figures for Chainsaw Warrior. I've got them.


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 Kilkrazy wrote:
Citadel did an optional set of figures for Chainsaw Warrior. I've got them.



Yeah but there's no place in the game for them in the game and it's just a "to have" thing.
Which is fair.

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I agree. In fact I bought the figures without having the game.

When GW did their Judge Dredd boardgame it came with standard coloured plastic pawns, and they did a separate set of coloured soft plastic Judge figures as an option. These were about 15mm scale.

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 Kilkrazy wrote:
I agree. In fact I bought the figures without having the game.

When GW did their Judge Dredd boardgame it came with standard coloured plastic pawns, and they did a separate set of coloured soft plastic Judge figures as an option. These were about 15mm scale.


We still play that game, its a really good way to spend 45 mins or so!

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I always used to like the block wars one a lot, that was mostly card stock.
   
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I played Nu-Quest at our club last night and had a really good time.

It wasn't as immediately deadly as Old-Quest for us but that's not bad thing. The next table to us were playing too and under far more pressure.

It's a high quality boxset, great miniatures and has good gameplay, the down side is the price but this can be mitigated.

This follows up Spulk, BoC and Overkill which were all good boardgames, so I'd say GW are doing something right here.

I think they will do well at generating new players as its a good "in". Something a parent/friend/relative can by a youngster/nerd that's self contained, substantial and gives a good experience; which will lead on to wanting more which GW will be more than happy to help them with, Natch this can only be good for turnover and margin.


To the idea that boardgames have to have card chits or token you need to remember that GW don't have card in-house but they can do plastic, and they can do it well and in quantity. It differentiates their products, gives existing fans an in and an extra reason to get it and looks a dammed sight nicer than a plastic cone/whatever.

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 Kilkrazy wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Back in the day, GW's boardgames served as a gateway into GW's tabletop games.


Some did and others didn't.

Talisman for example is only slightly connected to WHFB by the fact they both have a fantasy background.


Hey, Talisman was the very first fantasy or scifi themed boardgame I played. It served as a gateway to RPG's and other 'nerd games' and ultimately, 40k (although it took 2 decades).

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 notprop wrote:

I think they will do well at generating new players as its a good "in". Something a parent/friend/relative can by a youngster/nerd that's self contained, substantial and gives a good experience; which will lead on to wanting more which GW will be more than happy to help them with, Natch this can only be good for turnover and margin.


I'm not so sure how well that will work, for 2 basic points.

How does anyone who isn't already aware of it, become aware of it?
I guess there's a market for gamer dads to buy self contained nostalgia games for the kids, but they'd be introduced anyway, and gaming dad is potentially already bitter. How do new gamers (or their relatives) access the game?

Why would said relative buy Warhammer Quest over any of the other games sitting next to it on the shelf at 2/3rds of the price or less?
Sure, the GW brand and Warhammer Quest carry some inertia, but again, only to people who've heard of it. Why would Timmys gran buy WQ for his Christmas, over, X-Wing or Imperial Assault, unless he already knew about and asked for it? She'll probably be aware of that Star Wars thing, because shops are covered in it at the moment.

Don't get me wrong, WQ will sell like hotcakes, and will probably turn their annual report round (hence it's exact placement), but I imagine 90%+ of the sales will be either existing GW gamers, or ex-GW gamers looking for a nostalgia kick. The latter probably have no idea WTF the new minis are supposed to be, too.
   
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The key thing with HeroQuest and Space Crusade wasn't really the GW side of the equation and nor was it really that they were designed to be specific gateway games; the key thing is that GW partnered with MB and therefore got the leverage for sales that being associated with such a larger partner grants. That is why you saw HQ and SC in normal toy stores and department chains and in TV adverts, that is why parents bought them for kids and kids bought them when they otherwise might not have ever heard of GW.

GW making more board games is great but I fear that unless they lower the price of entry and try and get them exposed outside of the narrow GW arena then they aren't going to do much to entice new blood in. Ultimately, we as gamers are fairly inured to GW prices, even though many of us may not buy from them anymore, we have come to terms with the pricing. For a complete newcomer, be it child or parent, sticker shock is a very real phenomenon. A parent isn't going to look at a game and say 'oh well, it's £75 but it contains x amount of finely detailed miniatures that are useful in another game and might cost twice as much on their own' - they are going to look at it and think 'Wow, £75 for a game? I can buy a video game/Monopoly/some other toy instead'

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/27 10:00:31


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Backfire wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Back in the day, GW's boardgames served as a gateway into GW's tabletop games.


Some did and others didn't.

Talisman for example is only slightly connected to WHFB by the fact they both have a fantasy background.


Hey, Talisman was the very first fantasy or scifi themed boardgame I played. It served as a gateway to RPG's and other 'nerd games' and ultimately, 40k (although it took 2 decades).


I certainly don't disagree with that!

Personally I found Talisman a tedious random slog. To be fair, though, a lot people have a strange aversion to Rise and Decline of the Third Reich (Avalon Hill, 1974.)

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